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****** SPOILERS ********* "The Stuff"

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  • aldainaldain Member Posts: 325
    Nice, I suppose. Pity he's evil though, guessing that bars a lot of people (including me 90% of the time) from taking him along... also, don't we kind of have an overbalance of evil mages? Edwin/Xzar/Baeloth makes three, versus Xan/Neera for neutral and only Dynaheir for good.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I used Burning Hands against trolls in Black Pits, too.

    @aldain has a point though. Edwin, Xzar and Baeloth are the best arcane casters (Xzar can also be in the upper ranks of divine) and all are evil and Dynaheir as only good aligned caster isn't on the list of "must have" NPCs. Baeloth wouldn't make any sense as a good guy though, but they should add another good caster at some point.
  • DebaserDebaser Member Posts: 669

    Mathmick said:

    When I picked him up at level 6 he started with:

    Burning Hands
    Chromatic Orb
    Identify
    Larloch's Minor Drain
    Magic Missile
    Shield
    Spook

    Detect Invisibility
    Melf's Acid Arrow
    Mirror Image
    Ray of Enfeeblement
    Web

    Dire Charm
    Dispel Magic
    Fireball
    Haste

    So he knows 7/5/4 spells. Considering Sorcerers only get 3rd-level spells at level 6 (I think...), he has way more spells than he should.

    No wonder I was happy with his spell selection. =P

    Is this pre-selected or randomised do you think?

    No Invisibility? I'd rather have that than Detect Invisibility, Glitterdust makes enemies visible anyway (if they fail their save, mind). In fact Glitterdust would've been nice, would've preferred that to Ray of Enfeeblement, which only affects one traget

    Knock would be nice too for a Sorcerer, as they can just cast this when needed, rather than having to remember it "just in case", though I guess could be redundant for parties for a thief with alot of points in Open Locks.

    Dire Charm isn't that amazing, would've preferred Invisibility 10' Radius, Melf's Minute Meteors or Remove Magic

    Other than that the selection is not bad (though does *anyone* ever use Burning Hands?)

    I always use burning hands against trolls and fission slimes. It's easy to memorize it multiple times and it works fast.
  • AranthysAranthys Member Posts: 722
    Bhaaldog said:

    I am curious though why did the put the level restriction on the availability of this NPC.

    Agreed.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    aldain said:

    Nice, I suppose. Pity he's evil though, guessing that bars a lot of people (including me 90% of the time) from taking him along... also, don't we kind of have an overbalance of evil mages? Edwin/Xzar/Baeloth makes three, versus Xan/Neera for neutral and only Dynaheir for good.

    Well I case evil sorcerors are the sterotype, but I do take you point, the good and neutral mages are not as strong (though I like Neera).

    What evil parties are really missing is a thief in BG2, so it would be nice if they could bring one in (preferably an Assassin or Bounty Hunter, especially given that all the other new NPCs are classes or kits not available in the original BG1) into BGEE, for continuity into BG2EE.

    They could also do with an evil ranged-weapon fighter (not counting Shar-Teel with throwing daggers)
  • I'm with a lot of other people in this thread in that I don't mind his additional spells known because it makes up for many of those picks being spent on spells I never use. I disagree that this makes him more powerful than a Charname Sorcerer, as a customized spell list for a Sorcerer be a lot better in terms of having those powerful spells and spell combos.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    I am disappointed. I stayed away from the Drizzt map until I got Baeloth to see if he has any comment/banter/reaction to another drow. Nothing. Nothing at all. :(
  • KholdstareKholdstare Member Posts: 160
    Oh man, I really really hope he is available in BGII. I NEED to see his reaction to Irenicus and Jan. Plus I'm sure he'd have some funny dialogue with Minsc.
  • WilburWilbur Member Posts: 1,173
    aldain said:

    Nice, I suppose. Pity he's evil though, guessing that bars a lot of people (including me 90% of the time) from taking him along... also, don't we kind of have an overbalance of evil mages? Edwin/Xzar/Baeloth makes three, versus Xan/Neera for neutral and only Dynaheir for good.

    You can almost count Imoen as a good mage as she is perfect for dual classing. The game has plenty of other thieves anyway.

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Wilbur said:

    aldain said:

    Nice, I suppose. Pity he's evil though, guessing that bars a lot of people (including me 90% of the time) from taking him along... also, don't we kind of have an overbalance of evil mages? Edwin/Xzar/Baeloth makes three, versus Xan/Neera for neutral and only Dynaheir for good.

    You can almost count Imoen as a good mage as she is perfect for dual classing. The game has plenty of other thieves anyway.

    BG2 doesn't
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239

    What evil parties are really missing is a thief in BG2, so it would be nice if they could bring one in (preferably an Assassin or Bounty Hunter, especially given that all the other new NPCs are classes or kits not available in the original BG1) into BGEE, for continuity into BG2EE.

    To be fair, though, BGEE already has evil/evil-compatible thieves in Montaron, Skie and Safana. You're absolutely right, though: BG2EE needs an evil thief or assassin. (Fortunately, I think it's already been confirmed that that's in the works...)
  • aldainaldain Member Posts: 325
    Wilbur said:

    aldain said:

    Nice, I suppose. Pity he's evil though, guessing that bars a lot of people (including me 90% of the time) from taking him along... also, don't we kind of have an overbalance of evil mages? Edwin/Xzar/Baeloth makes three, versus Xan/Neera for neutral and only Dynaheir for good.

    You can almost count Imoen as a good mage as she is perfect for dual classing. The game has plenty of other thieves anyway.

    She'll always be a non-specialist mage though. I'd kind of like to see a good Transmuter, they're kind of wank in BG2 since they pretty much only get Stoneskin and the Illusion spells for defence (no abjuration), but in BG1 they're actually pretty decent, you only really miss out on Dispel Magic.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Bhaaldog said:

    I am curious though why did the put the level restriction on the availability of this NPC.

    My guess?

    The idea is that, while Baeloth may have lost much of his power, he isn't a level 1 mage with two spell slots and not much else; even with Najim's meddling, at level 5 he can still be perceived as a formidable sorcerer, despite the downgrade.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    I think it's also a balance issue. If you got him at a lower level then yo'd be able to craft his spells more, and his fixed itinerary is one of the things that stops him being completely ridiculous as opposed to mostly ridiculous.
  • OYMEOYME Member Posts: 36
    edited January 2013
    I'm surprised nobody has noticed this yet, but Baeloth has an exclusive spell to himself in addition to his ring that he wears. It's a level 3 spell called "Wraithform". I say this is not a bug but a feature for Baeloth only because I created a sorcerer and consoled him to max level and wraithform wasn't a spell I could choose (as in it didn't exist even as a greyed out spell icon, it just wasn't even there). Baeloth has to level up once though in order to select it. Here is the spell description.

    Wraithform
    (Alteration, Illusion)

    Level: 3
    Range: 0
    Duration: 2 rounds/level
    Casting Time: 1
    Area of Affect: The caster
    Saving Throw: none

    When this spell is cast, the wizard and all his gear becomes insubstantial. The caster is subject only to magical or special attacks, including those by weapons of +1 or better enchantment, or by creatures otherwise able to affect those struck only by magical weapons. The wizard also gains a 25% Resistance to Magic Damage. While in Wraithform, the caster cannot cast either arcane or divine spells.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    @OYME: Wraithform comes in the game as a scroll (added in BG:EE). It drops from Prat at the end of Chapter 6, when you are leaving Candlekeep. Interesting that normal Sorcerers can't select it, though.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    OYME said:

    I'm surprised nobody has noticed this yet, but Baeloth has an exclusive spell to himself in addition to his ring that he wears. It's a level 3 spell called "Wraithform". I say this is not a bug but a feature for Baeloth only because I created a sorcerer and consoled him to max level and wraithform wasn't a spell I could choose (as in it didn't exist even as a greyed out spell icon, it just wasn't even there). Baeloth has to level up once though in order to select it. Here is the spell description.

    Wraithform
    (Alteration, Illusion)

    Level: 3
    Range: 0
    Duration: 2 rounds/level
    Casting Time: 1
    Area of Affect: The caster
    Saving Throw: none

    When this spell is cast, the wizard and all his gear becomes insubstantial. The caster is subject only to magical or special attacks, including those by weapons of +1 or better enchantment, or by creatures otherwise able to affect those struck only by magical weapons. The wizard also gains a 25% Resistance to Magic Damage. While in Wraithform, the caster cannot cast either arcane or divine spells.

    Sounds great for multiclass mages and for bards less so for single class mages and sorcerers, unless using wands and/or scrolls only for a battle,
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Baeloth' potions of health make him drunk and are stolen, which is funny, because he has them when he appears. So he stole them from... his own enslaved merchant?
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Heh. Nice catch. You should go make a buy report and claim your Bug Detective cookies ;)
  • JalilyJalily Member Posts: 4,681
    Already added to the tracker. :)
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    @Jalily - But what about his cookies?
  • BerconBercon Member Posts: 485
    Personally I find it annoying that NPC casters are so much stronger than charname can ever hope to be. Edwin gets +1 spell slot per level in BG1 and then +2 (!!!) in BG2. Now we got yet another spell caster that has insane magic resistance, insane amount of spells and slots per level. I pray to god he doesn't get twice as strong bonuses in BG2 like Edwin does.

    Give some love for charname sorc/mages too.
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    As an aside: shouldn't Baeloth come with another -2 to reputation, like Viconia?
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited January 2013
    Bercon said:

    Personally I find it annoying that NPC casters are so much stronger than charname can ever hope to be.

    Makes perfect sense to me: your PC is just out of Candlekeep, at the very start of his or her journey. Edwin and Baeloth have been around for much longer, and have far greater expertise with magic than you could possibly have (at least at the point where you actually meet them).
  • aldainaldain Member Posts: 325
    shawne said:

    Bercon said:

    Personally I find it annoying that NPC casters are so much stronger than charname can ever hope to be.

    Makes perfect sense to me: your PC is just out of Candlekeep, at the very start of his or her journey. Edwin and Baeloth have been around for much longer, and have far greater expertise with magic than you could possibly have (at least at the point where you actually meet them).
    Except your PC will never be better than Edwin or Baeloth at magic, no matter what he does. This earth-shattering magical experience they gathered (in Edwin's case, apparently without even advancing past level 1...) is something your spellcasting PC can never hope to replicate. It's essentially a kick in the teeth for any mage or sorcerer PC.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    edited January 2013
    Baeloth will always be partly limited by his spell picks, however, just as Edwin will always have the limitation of his fairly average stats. They're still illegally good casters however.

    A PC Sorcerer can get 18 Dex, 16 Con (and so extra survivability) and choose 100% of the spells in his spellbook. Baeloth misses out on a few bread-and-butter spells at low levels due to his picks. Not many, but a few. Baeloth and Edwin are illegally good but not quite perfect.
  • EudaemoniumEudaemonium Member Posts: 3,199
    Honestly, I always liked that NPCs always had their special 'thing' that always made them better than Charname at what they did. It kinda marked them apart. Edwin gets additional spells because he is Thayvian but they couldn't give him a special 'Red Wizard' class (there's a mod out there that actually does this). Baeloth is just freakin' Baeloth, but Corvino is right: he will always be somewhat limited by his spell selection. Charname has flexibility, however.
  • MykraMykra Member Posts: 252
    aldain said:



    Except your PC will never be better than Edwin or Baeloth at magic, no matter what he does. This earth-shattering magical experience they gathered (in Edwin's case, apparently without even advancing past level 1...) is something your spellcasting PC can never hope to replicate. It's essentially a kick in the teeth for any mage or sorcerer PC.

    I'm not sure about that. Ok, Baeloth we can't argue about currently but he's obviously bugged. He's supposed to receive one extra spell, but instead he gains one extra spell per level...and has a wizards spellbook instead of a sorcerer. When they fix him, we'll see how he stands.

    Edwin however vs a PC Wildmage or a PC Sorcerer at worst would be equal in power. The Sorcerer's inherent flexibility and matching him in casts per day (surpassing with some gear), NRD on the Wild Mage, and various stat shennanigan's you can get on a Charname. Sure, he has the necklace, but I'd rather have NRD at high levels and/or the Sorcerer's any spell at any time mechanics.

    Don't get me wrong though, I really like Edwin. He has a great 'bad' personality, and is damn good at his job. I just never saw it as 'Edwin's going to do anything I want to do, but better'.
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