Except your PC will never be better than Edwin or Baeloth at magic, no matter what he does. This earth-shattering magical experience they gathered (in Edwin's case, apparently without even advancing past level 1...) is something your spellcasting PC can never hope to replicate. It's essentially a kick in the teeth for any mage or sorcerer PC.
That's because as you develop and hone your skills, so do they. Progress in D&D is a linear process - if an NPC starts off with an advantage over you, it makes sense that you'll never quite be able to catch up with them. You level up, they level up.
As for Edwin... even at level 1, I assume there's a substantial difference in the education and training a mage can receive in Thay versus Candlekeep...
Well to be fair, charname can have 18 wis and thus gain insane benefits of Wish spell which NPCs can't have (drinking too many potions of insights is cannot be healthy so it doesn't count).
Pretty sure a lot of people are underestimating the glory that is Wild Mage at high levels. Nahal's Reckless Dweomer makes you more than a match for Edwin or Baeloth, especially with Evermemory. In fact, I'd wager that Neera will be just as good as Edwin in BG2. probably better.
AFAIK wild mage is only good because you can stack multiple chaos shields in spell trigger or cc and thus gain very close or over 100% chance of success with the dweomer. Therefor, you can cast huge amount of any spells from your spell book without spell per round restriction because dweomer doesn't count as a spell.
Even without the exploit, a level 15 Wild Mage can get a +40 bonus to the wild surge roll with Nahal's and Improved Chaos Shield, which is enough to give you pretty good odds of some kind of beneficial effect (even if it's not the spell you were hoping to cast).
It's a specialist mage without an opposing spell school. Extra casts per level with a loss of zero spells is a fantastic thing. The only other Mage in the game who gets something like it is Edwin because they implemented the Red Wizard of Thay kit incorrectly (He should have two blocked schools of magic).
Reckless Dwemer cheese isn't required, it's strong point imo is that you can cast any level of spell you know using a level one slot at any time needed. This not only opens up being able to do something silly like dropping double digit skull traps from L1 memorization's, launch a cloudkill way before you can cast it legit, but it also allows you the inherent flexibility that makes a Sorcerer so good - need a dispel magic, a see invisible, counter a haste...you have this without the pre-planning (or getting more shots at it in case of resists, or just a longer fight and another unplanned for cast is required) needed from other mages.
It has a random variable level per casting. Depending on your luck, or perception of luck, you may see this as a negative. I've kept a tally before on my BGT run, and overall it made me stronger (I'll find the .doc, but it was a net gain. You always notice the big gains or losses, never the chippy little increases). No class in BG1 can toss out a Skull Trap stronger than the Wild Mage (Try not to laugh maniacally when you Surge 'Spell cast at double caster level'), and when you play with SCS you really start to enjoy (and yes, sometimes shake the fist and warn the computer it will rue the day you cast at -2 level) the empowered dispels.
Wild Surges hurt you at low levels, become an happy afterthought later on. You really only feel it the most in the beginning of the career, as the chance of casting without a shield is much higher, but with later spell options, and just overall level, it quits being something you fear. I've played a WM through the whole trilogy more than once and even though I've had some silliness happen (Oh, hai daemon after the Nashkel Mines. Awesome, flesh to stone instead of cure light wounds...) with so many surges actually not implemented correctly, the list of active choices is not as bad as it seems, and you level yourself into the stage that a surge that doesn't cast normally is pretty much just a second spell cast linked to your OG spell for free.
The Wild Mage is without a doubt the strongest Mage kit. I consider it an even push against the Sorcerer for best spellcaster in the game. And mainly, it's just damn fun. I'm not in danger, Sarevok. The cow is the danger.
I agree with Eudaemonium - it is nice that NPCs are not "exactly like charname or inferior". Kagain comes with insane con, Coran with insane dex - without tomes, charname will never have that either. Or Dorn being a half-orc with a paladin kit... legally, a charname can never get at a powerful combo of 19 str and Blackguard abilities. Yet all people complain about are spell slots on the casters - which is something that can be achieved with rings and smart use of the quick slots. You know what else is insane, besides Edwin's extra spell slots? The amount of level 1 and 2 scroll drops on random encounters. With those, and a wand, my jester - non-specialized caster and not even an actual mage or sorcerer - keeps up nicely with the red wizard in regards to level 1 and 2 spells.
Besides, it makes sense from a roleplay standpoint. Baeloth was so powerful, he could easily capture djinns, illithids and whatnot, not to mention your entire party (which could be 6 casters with significant combined spellpower). OF COURSE he is still more powerful than charname, even after being nerfed by his djinn slave. Edwin is a Red Wizard of Thay, which happens to be the ruling body of a magocracy. He was probably a better caster in 3rd grade of mage elementary than charname was when graduating. He went to a highly specialized private arcane school with other wizards - you went to public school and learned some spells while a berzerker-to-be was training with wooden clubs next to you. Both have more experience with magic than you when you meet them because they were either born with it or learned it from early age in what can be classified as an elite school. It makes perfect sense that they'll always have the edge in that regard. But they don't only carry their superior arcane skills around as baggage, they also carry their downsides. Baeloth learned spells that work for his purpose, and that doesn't neccessarily overlap with your needs. Edwin keeps his medicore stats - 18 INT and 16 CON is really the only upside about those; his lore isn't very good with the low wisdom; the strength isn't worth anything, dexterity needs to be boosted with gauntlets only to give him the faint resemblance of an AC... It's a massive difference between Baeloth with Quarterstaff +1 and Edwin with the same weapon and proficiency even against gibberlings. And really, if you were a somewhat clumsy, booksmart weakling with barely any street smarts/wisdom... would you not see that you excel at casting more than anyone, just to not die on the way to the outhouse?
I´m trying to get Baeloths spawning to work, I´ll drop the area fix file that was posted earlier in the override folder if only I knew where to create said folder.
Where is the override folder supposed to be in? My copy of BGEE is downloaded from BeamDog, and the BGEE folder is in users/username/files/BGEE
The actual game seems to be located in program files/BeamDog/games/00766. The data folder is located here.
I'm waiting for the iPad patch, which should hopefully come before Wednesday, then I will be Baelothing it up. But yes, it does sound unimaginably epic.
Baeloth' potions of health make him drunk and are stolen, which is funny, because he has them when he appears. So he stole them from... his own enslaved merchant?
A friend of mine said that they should be renamed to 'Speedily Stolen Slaves' Salves'. I'm thinking of making a feature request.
I am still awating the Mac Version, but will a full biography of the New NPC be placed on the main website? I thought it would be an additional selling point to the game.
I doubt it - he really seems more like an easter egg than an NPC on the level of Dorn, Rasaad and Neera...
I made my first ever evil(ish) party specifically to pick up Baeloth and am having a blast. So many of my dialogue choices and actions have become habit over the years that playing an evil party is pretty refreshing (although before I did have a twinge of guilt when my reputation dropped to 4 or 5 and Khalid told me to change my course of he would be forced to "s-stop me."
SO! I ditched him, Jaheira and Imoen at the Friendly Arms and went on to wend my (mostly) wicked way along the Sword Coast.
My current line-up is:
PC: TN female human thief Dorn
Baeloth Edwin
Viconia ????
I may swap out Edwin for Neera and drop Rasaad in the 6-slot so I can have all four new characters together in one party. Or I may just play with a 5-man party and leave the 6-slot free to rotate in other NPCs I've never tried. In any case, Baeloth has opened up a delightfully wicked new world for me, and the opening dialogue with him is hysterical.
I just went looking for him for the first time with a level 6 character who had never been to Larswood before; no dice. How's that patch to make him available to all coming along?
I apologize if that sounds like a stupid question but do you have to finish the black pits in order to recruit him? I'm asking because I was under the impression that the black pits are a stand-alone adventure not tied into the mainstory. I was hoping to save the black pits for last (after the sarevok fight) but if its completion is necessary to recruit baeloth into my group I'm afraid I have to do it before lvl 5.
Comments
As for Edwin... even at level 1, I assume there's a substantial difference in the education and training a mage can receive in Thay versus Candlekeep...
It's a specialist mage without an opposing spell school. Extra casts per level with a loss of zero spells is a fantastic thing. The only other Mage in the game who gets something like it is Edwin because they implemented the Red Wizard of Thay kit incorrectly (He should have two blocked schools of magic).
Reckless Dwemer cheese isn't required, it's strong point imo is that you can cast any level of spell you know using a level one slot at any time needed. This not only opens up being able to do something silly like dropping double digit skull traps from L1 memorization's, launch a cloudkill way before you can cast it legit, but it also allows you the inherent flexibility that makes a Sorcerer so good - need a dispel magic, a see invisible, counter a haste...you have this without the pre-planning (or getting more shots at it in case of resists, or just a longer fight and another unplanned for cast is required) needed from other mages.
It has a random variable level per casting. Depending on your luck, or perception of luck, you may see this as a negative. I've kept a tally before on my BGT run, and overall it made me stronger (I'll find the .doc, but it was a net gain. You always notice the big gains or losses, never the chippy little increases). No class in BG1 can toss out a Skull Trap stronger than the Wild Mage (Try not to laugh maniacally when you Surge 'Spell cast at double caster level'), and when you play with SCS you really start to enjoy (and yes, sometimes shake the fist and warn the computer it will rue the day you cast at -2 level) the empowered dispels.
Wild Surges hurt you at low levels, become an happy afterthought later on. You really only feel it the most in the beginning of the career, as the chance of casting without a shield is much higher, but with later spell options, and just overall level, it quits being something you fear. I've played a WM through the whole trilogy more than once and even though I've had some silliness happen (Oh, hai daemon after the Nashkel Mines. Awesome, flesh to stone instead of cure light wounds...) with so many surges actually not implemented correctly, the list of active choices is not as bad as it seems, and you level yourself into the stage that a surge that doesn't cast normally is pretty much just a second spell cast linked to your OG spell for free.
The Wild Mage is without a doubt the strongest Mage kit. I consider it an even push against the Sorcerer for best spellcaster in the game. And mainly, it's just damn fun. I'm not in danger, Sarevok. The cow is the danger.
Yet all people complain about are spell slots on the casters - which is something that can be achieved with rings and smart use of the quick slots. You know what else is insane, besides Edwin's extra spell slots? The amount of level 1 and 2 scroll drops on random encounters. With those, and a wand, my jester - non-specialized caster and not even an actual mage or sorcerer - keeps up nicely with the red wizard in regards to level 1 and 2 spells.
Besides, it makes sense from a roleplay standpoint. Baeloth was so powerful, he could easily capture djinns, illithids and whatnot, not to mention your entire party (which could be 6 casters with significant combined spellpower). OF COURSE he is still more powerful than charname, even after being nerfed by his djinn slave.
Edwin is a Red Wizard of Thay, which happens to be the ruling body of a magocracy. He was probably a better caster in 3rd grade of mage elementary than charname was when graduating. He went to a highly specialized private arcane school with other wizards - you went to public school and learned some spells while a berzerker-to-be was training with wooden clubs next to you.
Both have more experience with magic than you when you meet them because they were either born with it or learned it from early age in what can be classified as an elite school. It makes perfect sense that they'll always have the edge in that regard.
But they don't only carry their superior arcane skills around as baggage, they also carry their downsides. Baeloth learned spells that work for his purpose, and that doesn't neccessarily overlap with your needs. Edwin keeps his medicore stats - 18 INT and 16 CON is really the only upside about those; his lore isn't very good with the low wisdom; the strength isn't worth anything, dexterity needs to be boosted with gauntlets only to give him the faint resemblance of an AC... It's a massive difference between Baeloth with Quarterstaff +1 and Edwin with the same weapon and proficiency even against gibberlings. And really, if you were a somewhat clumsy, booksmart weakling with barely any street smarts/wisdom... would you not see that you excel at casting more than anyone, just to not die on the way to the outhouse?
I´m trying to get Baeloths spawning to work, I´ll drop the area fix file that was posted earlier in the override folder if only I knew where to create said folder.
Where is the override folder supposed to be in? My copy of BGEE is downloaded from BeamDog, and the BGEE folder is in users/username/files/BGEE
The actual game seems to be located in program files/BeamDog/games/00766. The data folder is located here.
Sorry if so.
I haven't updated recently, but I'm definitely doing so tomorrow.
Baeloth and Rutger Hauer;))
SO! I ditched him, Jaheira and Imoen at the Friendly Arms and went on to wend my (mostly) wicked way along the Sword Coast.
My current line-up is:
PC: TN female human thief Dorn
Baeloth Edwin
Viconia ????
I may swap out Edwin for Neera and drop Rasaad in the 6-slot so I can have all four new characters together in one party. Or I may just play with a 5-man party and leave the 6-slot free to rotate in other NPCs I've never tried. In any case, Baeloth has opened up a delightfully wicked new world for me, and the opening dialogue with him is hysterical.
-Blue
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/235817/#Comment_235817