Ranged Weapon Prof. and extra Attacks bugged?
Berengar
Member Posts: 8
Heya,
I was wondering whether I'm mixing something up or if there's a new bug in the game, introduced by the new patch.
If you create an archer and give him two pips in longbow, shouldn't that mean, that he now has 5/2 attacks at level 1, with a longbow or composite longbow plus arrows equipped and no other buffs active/items equipped?
From what I know, it should be the regular 1 APR which every character has, +1 APR because it's a bow and +1/2 APR because of weapon specialisation. If you just equip a longbow/comp bow without any arrows the char screen states 3/2 APR, but as soon as you equip some arrows it changes to 2 APR. Am I missing something?
I was wondering whether I'm mixing something up or if there's a new bug in the game, introduced by the new patch.
If you create an archer and give him two pips in longbow, shouldn't that mean, that he now has 5/2 attacks at level 1, with a longbow or composite longbow plus arrows equipped and no other buffs active/items equipped?
From what I know, it should be the regular 1 APR which every character has, +1 APR because it's a bow and +1/2 APR because of weapon specialisation. If you just equip a longbow/comp bow without any arrows the char screen states 3/2 APR, but as soon as you equip some arrows it changes to 2 APR. Am I missing something?
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After patch, Kivan (level 7) has only 2 APR with his bow, instead of 3. Same for my Beast Master (level 7).
Most bows in AD&D 2E are 2/1 ROF
Though the archer kit in PnP had the ability to get an extra attack and push it to 3/1...
I was about to create my own threaD when I saw this one.
I agree ...
AFTER THE JANUARY 15TH PATCH, ALL ARCHER / BOW ATTACKS HAS BEEN REDUCED
Seems like a bug.
My three bowmen in my party ( 2 x fighter. 1 x ranger ) all had THREE attacks with bows, before the January 15th patch.
Now they only have TWO attacks
A SCANDAL !!
Further, missiles weapons already have a big disadvantage cause of resistance or immunities against them - getting only worse in BG2. Who would ever take a ranged class with 4 ApR (imp hasted) then you can have a devastating melee-machine with up 10 ApR instead? (also imp haste)
PnP with a 13 fighter with maxed prof (Slings, Bows, and X-bows cannot go above Mastery (***)), would have a base max attacks of: 6 Darts, 5 Throwing Daggers, 3 Bows, 4 thrown Axes/Hammers, 2 light-Xbows and slings, 1.5 heavy X-bows (they have a 1/2 base rate of fire in PnP, not the 1 base attack as in BG)
'd love if you can name the reference, my 'paper' reading material is partially gone or stored at my grandparents or borrowed or...
Currently trying to catch up older stuff but have to rely on PDF instead.
[if possible the true title and if it's revised or not and so on? Would be really awesome...maybe in a PM then to not bother the thread]
Hmmmm...interesting....pg 71-73 of the core player's handbook
Bows and X-bows never gain extra attacks from specialization. Other ranged weapons do however.
Bows and X-bows do NOT gain extra damage from specialization, it removes their to-hit penalty for firing at targets at close range, and gives them a +2 to-hit bonus to those attacks.
Bows DO NOT benefit from warrior level based extra attacks, while crossbows do (which by lvl 13 light crossbows have the same rate of fire as bows)...however, PnP bows can benefit from varying levels of str damage, depending on the bow in question, while X-bows can't.
(PnP aside at this point..any game breaks the rules to a certain limit ^^)
Ladiiiiiiiiiiiiies and Gentlemen, in the left corner the most psycho killer dwarf, who recently got his hands on CromFeayr (in his left hand) and Flail of LOL in his mainhand, boosted by his very awesome trainer Edwin by Improooooooooooooooved Haste! *y<ayayayayayaya*
In the right corner....the awesome yet stupid ranger Valygar, with his trusty Longbow fully loaded with his experimental quiver from cespanar! The Bhaalspawns sister got her mind free from plucking blooms so she buffed him with Imp haste as well! *yayaaaaaaaaaaa*
FIGHT!
Round 1: Korgan attacks/attacks/attacks/attacks/attacks/attacks/attacks/attacks/attacks/attacks
Valygar: *yaawns*/attacks/*yaawns*/attacks/*yaawns*/attacks/*yaawns*/attacks/
Valygaaaaaaaaaaaaaar went down! right after the 4 hits..but due to the speed we could not really measure the impact of the dice roooooooooollls! lets get whatever....
I'd say the fact that ranged weapons have gained extra attacks from specialization/warrior levels all throughout BG1, IWD, BG2, and all their respective patches, along with the fact that it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the changelog for the latest BG:EE patch, is pretty conclusive evidence that it's a bug.
2 (bow) +1 (level 7) = 3 APR
Also plz mention the page from the manual, as the IWD1 is similar and doesn't have it included. EE' did just copy whatever it found reasonable to include in theirs.
I guess you are dual-wielding like every1 else and don't care about the already crippled archery in BG2...
@moopy You only get 1/2 an attack at lvl 7, and the other half at lvl 13 for a total of 1 extra attack. Specialization gives half an attack, and GM adds another 1/2 for another full attack. So if you're a fighter using a melee weapon at lvl 13 with a GM weapon, you should have 3 attacks or 4 if you dual-wield.
If it's only denying you specialization attack, then you'd have 5/2 (2.5) at level 7.
According to the Player's handbook, Bows never get bonus attacks, so they should never go above 2 unless the bow in question is like Tuigan and has 3 base attacks. X-bows on the other hand are shown to benefit from the level based (but not specialization based) extra attacks.
As you can see above, X-bows aren't benefiting from being specialized, but are benefiting from the level based extra attacks, though it clearly shows bows are excluded.
Interestingly, Thrown Daggers and Darts seem to get a full extra attack from specialization, 7th level warrior, and 13th level warrior, rather then a 1/2 attack each like other weapons do.
Launchers, such as bows and crossbows, use their own rate of fire to determine their number of attacks per round, regardless of the wielder's proficiency. For bows, this means you always get 2 attacks per round (even with grand mastery). For crossbows, you always get 1.
Which means that if you were getting extra attacks before, it was a bug that has since been fixed. The primary advantage of ranged weapons is and has always been that you don't have to stand next to your target; in the time it takes your enemy to reach you with his axe of bloodying, you might have pelted him with four or more arrows, which is a distinct advantage before you switch to your melee weapon.
Now, a developer might come in and directly contradict me on this, but that's what it looks like to me.
The other balancing factor to ranged is that they suffer more resistance and immunity to damage then any other damage type in the game.