You know, I've been keeping a watch on this topic, and it strikes me as quite amusing. Before this happened, I frequently read about how powerful bows were in the game (perhaps a bit too powerful). In my game, my mages (Imoen, Neera, and Dynaheir) have hardly ever had to use spells, mostly due to the fact that Minsc and my Coran stand in (an elf fighter/thief character I created that isn't the protagonist) take enemies out so quickly with bows. I think this might be a change for the better, especially if they can make it like PnP where crossbows gain more attacks. Bows have been so powerful that I've never thought about using a crossbow. With this change, I'll think about it now.
@Zarakinthish At low levels bows are actually pretty good, its the mid levels where most of soa takes place in where bows really start to fall behind, and at high levels bows cant come close to competing with melee. It is pretty much the reverse of classes like monks and wizards, who start out weak but get better as they level, bows start out strong and get worse as you gain levels.
Even at low levels though, if you compare the damage bows put out its less then melee does, its just that in a low level setting like BG it doesn't take much damage to kill enemies, so bows save travel time into melee range and allow quicker target swapping, people who felt they where too strong where looking at the situation with blinders on.
@Zarakinthish Crossbows are probably the second best option for ranged in BG1 and IMO out do bows in BG2. This is partially because they have pretty awesome ammo choices (especially compared to bows in BG2 which got an ammo nerf) and they also do more base damage in exchange for a slightly less good fire rate. Not to mention there are things like
kuo-toa bolts and especially firetooth
in BG2 which fairly soundly outclass all the bows with their power if you ask me.
The nerf doesn't just effect BG1, this issue doesn't impact bows very much until level 7 (just 1/2 APR if specialized), this nerf really hits at level 13 and Grand Mastery, which is where bows already start to lose their edge. This just puts the nail in the coffin.
As I understand it, they also nerfed slings APR which makes less sense if that was even possible.
And if you think crossbows are greatly under powered compared to bows I'm guessing you never used the Crossbow of Speed with Bolts of Lightning.
Also, my Kensai /Thief is throwing axes at a rate of 5/2 APR by end game BG1 and it is making Archers look bad when they have 2 APR.
It has been suggested by several people here that a workaround for this is to use SK and edit your base APR. when you equip a launcher with no ammo the attacks track upwards, but when you equip the ammo then the APR locks to 2. This has got to be a bug. Its ridiculous that a throwing axe can get full use of GM and launchers are maxed to 2 APR
Until we get confirmation that this was intended I'm assuming it is a bug and an accident.
It makes no sense given that missiles are the most commonly resisted weapon and get weaker and weaker as the game progresses, and the full effect of this nerf, if intended, wouldn't hit until level 13 and Grand Mastery.
That doesn't clarify anything for me. If that is the case then why are throwing axes not "set" to 1 per round? Even the latest patch did not affect them. Yet more evidence showing that this was not intentional.
The reason throwing axes aren't affected is because they, like non-magical melee weapons, don't have the 'attacks per round' ability. There was nothing about them to change when this overall patch was applied. (At this stage we haven't heard from the developers. So I'm still theorising. But everything I've seen points to the attacks per round 'set' ability being finally, after 14 years, corrected. I preferred it broken and will be modding my bows to: attacks per round 1 'increase' bonus.)
It has been suggested by several people here that a workaround for this is to use SK and edit your base APR. when you equip a launcher with no ammo the attacks track upwards, but when you equip the ammo then the APR locks to 2. This has got to be a bug. Its ridiculous that a throwing axe can get full use of GM and launchers are maxed to 2 APR
I'm pretty sure this happens because when you equip a launcher with no ammo the game defaults to unarmed attacks for that quick slot. Unless you're getting bonus attacks from specialization in addition to higher fighter levels, in which case, you're absolutely right.
or at least the very least provide a mod to revert this behavior? It has been working fine for 14 years don't fix what's not broken!
my main is an archer, i feel like she a worthless now, not only i lost 33% of the damage, in addition the APR is LOCKED to 2 so I'm doing half the damage when hasted.
Sorry, everyone; there were...other issues that required my attention. I may have lost a bet with an eleven-year-old, and may have to wear a dress and ride an imaginary unicorn a week from Sunday in front of the whole school.
The answer from the team is that this is in fact a bug, which means it should be fixed in the next patch. There's no need to report it any more than has already been done; the developers are aware of it and working on a fix.
There was some good speculation in this thread, though, about why it might have been the case, and some good theories about whether or not it was a good thing. But anyway, there's the answer. Only a day and a half late; that's mostly my own fault.
thanks, any clue on when the next patch will arrive? or if there is a way for creating a temporary mod to address this issue while the patching being done?
I to thank you for the update. Hopefully the patch will be available in a few weeks or sooner, and we wont have to wait a month or longer for a fix. At least I know I can continue my Archer's story in BG2.
Thanks @Aosaw, I'll put my higher level game on hold for now, but will continue with one I've only recently started, as the bug will affect it less. Hope the pre-existing haste bug for characters starting with 3/2 or 5/2 etc. gets fixed too (they were only getting an extra half attack from haste even with melee weapons)
Hmm, you'd argue for BGEE it is within limits or at least 'okay', cause ranged classes are superior. But in BG2 they are not..if they'd be that capped they never catch up to 25 STR dual-wielding psychos or even 1-handed weapons-wielder. And as already mentioned, countless critter just ignore your stupid arrows/bolts anyway :>
(PnP aside at this point..any game breaks the rules to a certain limit ^^)
Only for about 2/3 through the game. At that point melee already gets an edge.
Sorry, everyone; there were...other issues that required my attention. I may have lost a bet with an eleven-year-old, and may have to wear a dress and ride an imaginary unicorn a week from Sunday in front of the whole school.
@Aosaw So are you also one of those guys who uses pictures of girls for their avatar to confuse everyone? Otherwise why would wearing a dress be a condition of losing a bet? And how old are you to still be in school? Or are you in college?
The only thing that buggers me, are people who take a pause, just because their character took an unitended/intended nerf. With each passing day, people here get more and more like those people who troll the forums of mainstream games.
@geselle Actually, in this case I tend to think of it as "savoring every moment". The people here take their play-throughs very seriously; each time through is like drinking a very fine wine, with its own subtleties and flavors.
When a bug that disrupts that experience appears, it's sometimes preferable to set the experience aside and wait for the disruption to pass, so that the experience can continue unhindered.
There's something kind of very zen about putting the play-through on hold because of a specific bug, much like the people who have yet to play because they're waiting for their favorite mod to be updated. Rather than a degeneration, I view it as a sophistication of gamer's needs.
I think the problem was more for people with an Archer or some other class that they were specifically trying a build where the entire build hinged on ranged APR.
I've put an Archer on hold until this gets fixed and am playing a Bounty Hunter.
@geselle Actually, in this case I tend to think of it as "savoring every moment". The people here take their play-throughs very seriously; each time through is like drinking a very fine wine, with its own subtleties and flavors.
When a bug that disrupts that experience appears, it's sometimes preferable to set the experience aside and wait for the disruption to pass, so that the experience can continue unhindered.
There's something kind of very zen about putting the play-through on hold because of a specific bug, much like the people who have yet to play because they're waiting for their favorite mod to be updated. Rather than a degeneration, I view it as a sophistication of gamer's needs.
Well said
For Archer, range attack is everything. If you half the damage of fireball, the mage can still cast some other spells. if you half the damage of melee attack, at the very least, they can still tank
but damage, range damage for archers is eveything for that class. especially if the archer is your main character, i don't even feel like im the all powerful god-child leader of the group anymore. it's affecting both gameplay and roleplay.
This hole thing have been on my mind nearly every minute. Dee has got it right, the planning of the future gameplay, the character build takes much time and it's very unpleasant when in one second all my thoughts just vanish.
And now it's like a breathe of fresh air)))
By the way, I've never thought that I'd be so happy to find out the Devs have made a mistake))))))
Comments
I AM THE LAW!
Please revert the change ASAP.
At low levels bows are actually pretty good, its the mid levels where most of soa takes place in where bows really start to fall behind, and at high levels bows cant come close to competing with melee. It is pretty much the reverse of classes like monks and wizards, who start out weak but get better as they level, bows start out strong and get worse as you gain levels.
Even at low levels though, if you compare the damage bows put out its less then melee does, its just that in a low level setting like BG it doesn't take much damage to kill enemies, so bows save travel time into melee range and allow quicker target swapping, people who felt they where too strong where looking at the situation with blinders on.
The nerf doesn't just effect BG1, this issue doesn't impact bows very much until level 7 (just 1/2 APR if specialized), this nerf really hits at level 13 and Grand Mastery, which is where bows already start to lose their edge. This just puts the nail in the coffin.
As I understand it, they also nerfed slings APR which makes less sense if that was even possible.
And if you think crossbows are greatly under powered compared to bows I'm guessing you never used the Crossbow of Speed with Bolts of Lightning.
Also, my Kensai /Thief is throwing axes at a rate of 5/2 APR by end game BG1 and it is making Archers look bad when they have 2 APR.
seriously can one enjoy a single player RPG in peace with some random nerf because people want to impose how THEY think we should play?
BG1 and BG2 has been enjoying cult success with the regular attach progression for over 10 years,
Please stop fixing things thats not broken! and stop trying to "balance" a single player game for crying out loud!
This has got to be a bug.
Its ridiculous that a throwing axe can get full use of GM and launchers are maxed to 2 APR
Until we get confirmation that this was intended I'm assuming it is a bug and an accident.
It makes no sense given that missiles are the most commonly resisted weapon and get weaker and weaker as the game progresses, and the full effect of this nerf, if intended, wouldn't hit until level 13 and Grand Mastery.
(At this stage we haven't heard from the developers. So I'm still theorising. But everything I've seen points to the attacks per round 'set' ability being finally, after 14 years, corrected. I preferred it broken and will be modding my bows to: attacks per round 1 'increase' bonus.)
or at least the very least provide a mod to revert this behavior? It has been working fine for 14 years don't fix what's not broken!
my main is an archer, i feel like she a worthless now, not only i lost 33% of the damage, in addition the APR is LOCKED to 2 so I'm doing half the damage when hasted.
Please fix this asap!
The answer from the team is that this is in fact a bug, which means it should be fixed in the next patch. There's no need to report it any more than has already been done; the developers are aware of it and working on a fix.
There was some good speculation in this thread, though, about why it might have been the case, and some good theories about whether or not it was a good thing. But anyway, there's the answer. Only a day and a half late; that's mostly my own fault.
Well. Mine, and a certain eleven-year-old.
Thanks so much for getting us the information. Imaginary unicorn? :P
It's more the specific kind of dress. I might post a photo or two after the fact.
Actually, in this case I tend to think of it as "savoring every moment". The people here take their play-throughs very seriously; each time through is like drinking a very fine wine, with its own subtleties and flavors.
When a bug that disrupts that experience appears, it's sometimes preferable to set the experience aside and wait for the disruption to pass, so that the experience can continue unhindered.
There's something kind of very zen about putting the play-through on hold because of a specific bug, much like the people who have yet to play because they're waiting for their favorite mod to be updated. Rather than a degeneration, I view it as a sophistication of gamer's needs.
I think the problem was more for people with an Archer or some other class that they were specifically trying a build where the entire build hinged on ranged APR.
I've put an Archer on hold until this gets fixed and am playing a Bounty Hunter.
For Archer, range attack is everything. If you half the damage of fireball, the mage can still cast some other spells. if you half the damage of melee attack, at the very least, they can still tank
but damage, range damage for archers is eveything for that class. especially if the archer is your main character, i don't even feel like im the all powerful god-child leader of the group anymore. it's affecting both gameplay and roleplay.
This hole thing have been on my mind nearly every minute. Dee has got it right, the planning of the future gameplay, the character build takes much time and it's very unpleasant when in one second all my thoughts just vanish.
And now it's like a breathe of fresh air)))
By the way, I've never thought that I'd be so happy to find out the Devs have made a mistake))))))