So, instead of 'kiddies', we got grown-ups who are supposed to have already gone through their puberty acting like morons. Yep, sounds definitely less disheartening to me. Totally.
@Fenghoang: Yep. It tells you a lot about people, eh. Take away that social façade of polite and correct behaviour and you get this. Just goes to show that some people are major jerks inside.
Don't take the Steam forums seriously. As others have pointed out, their userbase is terrible, and it only serves as a sort of elongated Customer Support section where those with qualms post. It's not representative for the majority of the Steam community. Also, I guess most people there haven't even bought the game... and seeing as it's still a top seller, I believe the majority of Steam users likes it. Even if some are disappointed after buying the game, I'd say they had enough time to research what BG:EE does and what it doesn't do.
These generalizations need to stop. Forums, regardless of the game, are always filled with whining when a game first comes out. That is completely normal. People need to stop using Steam as a punching bag to promote what they believe because THIS forum will agree with them.
There should be NO SURPRISE that the steam forums have people disliking the game. That is normal! For every forum! Guess what? This forum had many who disliked the game when it first came out too!
Steam offers a lot. BG:EE offers a lot. People need to get off their high horse. Don't like steam? Don't use it. Don't like BG:EE? don't play it.
Please stop generalizing and hating so much against the steam users. It doesn't make them look childish. It makes you look childish.
Let them hate all they want. If people listen to hating without actual reasoning behind then they don't deserve to play the game. @chickenhead I couldn't have said it better myself.
Folks want different things from an enhanced edition. I wanted my game to pause on inventory, offer heftier stacks of ammo, and to provide better continuity with BG2. I don't doubt that mods offer those benefits, but I would need to track them down, make sure that they played well together, and verify that they didn't contain additional "improvements" that I didn't want.
For those who have the original game modded in a way that suits them and don't mind the effort to reassemble their collection of mods when they get a new PC, the enhanced edition is likely not a good value. For me, if anything, Beamdog made too many changes, but overall I'm happy with my purchase.
It's sort of like going out to eat vs. cooking at home. You might be able to prepare a meal better tailored to your tastes at home, but sometimes convenience is worth paying for.
*thinks to himself* how can you know that all steam forum users are whiners, unless of course you frequent the steam forums... then of course, that would make you a ... steam forum user!
I'm j/k of course Never used steam, looked at it once when I wanted to by M&B:Warband, but saw that I could buy it from the developer instead, so I did. I've nothing against steam or anyone that uses it. Honestly I don't care what they are posting there, cause I'll never read it :P
Steam version is v2011, Beamdog version is 2012, meaning they're playing a much more buggy version.
I don't think it's just that. I finished the game before 2012 shipped, and nothing in the 2012 patch logged fixed any errors I had (besides Contagion range bug and maybe MP window glitch). I actually had a rather bug free experience. I saw only a handful of bugs, none of which were major by any means.
I think there are a few reasons why people don't like BG:EE.
1 - The Internet has no 'delete' button. Some people probably still thought they were getting a fully HD remake. Even if the HD remake took place the graphics would not of been great compared to modern games, so they would of complained regardless.
2-Modern gamers are not accustomed to sophisticated games like BG, so the difficult probably came at a shock.
3-Another common complaint is that you have to micro-manage your party members. Even way back with NWN, your party members were controlled by the computer. All newer group based games, the computer controls the character. BG is more like an RTS in this regard, which I prefer.
4-I do think that some of the bugs are a turnoff, but again, I just don't think game breaking bugs exist in BG:EE. There are annoyances, but other than early crash bugs which have already been fixed, I am not aware of something preventing people from playing.
In my experience, there's a large number of people who say they want to play RPGs, but actually hate RPG mechanics, which they'll deride as "Archaic! Outdated! Stupid nerd crap!" What they really want is a shooter or action/adventure with "dialogue and choices!"...not an RPG. The BioWare forums (specifically the Mass Effect section) is absolutely full of these people.
What's really sad are the people who want everything voiced simply because they don't want to read, and they don't seem to realise how much voice acting limits your dialogue options and how much it costs. I mean, really? You pick a game in the most reading-intensive genre out there, and you demand that developers spend huge amounts of money just so you don't have to engage in this one essential life skill?
The new way games are being commercialized is really messing up games for the new generations. All those war games do is make aggressive low attention span nuts. It isn't surprising. Remember you are what you eat. You are also what you consume. If you go to work and hate your life and then go home and kill virtual people and cuss all day it isn't really all that healthy. If hate is in your heart then it will also come out your mouth.
This is just a game. If you don't like it then don't play. People love this game and are working on it.
It's not just Steam, it's the interwebs in general. It you're ever in a good mood and you think the future for the world looks bright, just look at the comments on YouTube to get back to reality. Being nasty seems to be the only way to feel alive for a lot of people.
Or to be more specific, being nasty with the anonymity and security that comes with hiding behind a computer screen, makes people feel alive....It can be quite the powertrip for some individuals, knowing you can completely speak your mind, and say virtually anything you want, no matter how rude or ignorant, and with no regard for anyone's feelings, knowing that you are virtually protected from any harmful backlash and/or repercussions.
I got Steam for exactly one reason; Skyrim. If I could have got Skyrim without having a Steam connection, I would have. Since I was already forced to get Steam, it would've been nice if I had access to BGEE through Steam from the start. But I'm okay with the Beamdog client.
I took a read through the first page of posts about BG:EE over on the Steam forum. I didn't see a single complaint about Baldur's Gate gameplay. I saw the same few complaints repeated over and over, and in fairness, they were the same complaints mentioned here in this forum, only with a bit more angry tone.
1) The resolution is blurry. 2) The resolution cannot be easily adjusted. 3) The enhancement introduced many new bugs. 4) The new characters are flat and uninteresting. The NPC project and modded NPC's are much better. 5) You can get all three games in one package from Gog for less money. 6) Everything BG:EE does, a modded Gog version or disc version can do better, and for less money. 7) Twenty dollars is too much to pay for what you wind up getting. 8) The new areas and the Black Pits are not in the artistic style and spirit of the original game.
Please understand that none of these are necessarily my own opinions. These are just a summary of the ones I read in the Steam forums. I must admit that I have a hard time disagreeing with some of the criticisms. They just weren't enough to dissuade me from buying and supporting the project. Other people made the opposite decision.
Also, please don't call people from other forums names. That makes us look just as angry, bitter, and unkind as they tend to be, and we're supposed to be better than that.
#1 and #2 are just the nature of the game. Though I see #2 as a non issue because the interface scales appropriately to my resolution, and the main game window has a zoom feature that while some don't like, I make heavy use of. If they implement a zoom lock then this feature will be rock solid.
#3 is out weighed by things that were fixed, and they continue to fix bugs that remain or were introduced. This point isn't taking into consideration the constant support and updates we've been seeing and how they will impact the direction of the game.
#5 and #6 just isn't true, 10 dollars more to not have to install mods and have constant support is worth 10 dollars. Extra NPCs, areas, and the black pits are just icing on the cake. This also makes #7 not true.
Here is why my take on 5, 6, and 7 aren't an opinion as much as they are a fact. If I make 10 dollars an hour, and I replay BG enough that the game downloading itself, installing itself, modding itself, and being updated and supported by Beamdog save me ONE hour in all my various installs and play throughs. I break even.
#8 so Evil Illithid's capturing an adventuring party and forcing them to fight to the death gladiator style in the Underdark IS within the spirit of the original game? But an adventuring group getting captured by a evil Drow and forcing them to fight to the death gladiator style in the Underdark ISN'T within the spirit of the original game?
So what we are left with is graphics from 10+ years ago aren't as good as graphics from today. And I don't like the new NPCs.
If the graphics are an issue then this game probably isn't for you.
If you don't like the new NPCs ignore them and wait for NPC project to be modded for BGEE.
Edit:
I would agree that Beamdog really dropped the ball, let their customers down, and this entire game sucks if things had been left the way they were when the game released.
But the time in which they responded to issues, and put out 4 updates between the end of November and I think Dec 14th? Was nothing short of amazing and a support level you don't see from any company anywhere.
Edit 2:
On the NPCs being flat. I disliked Neera the most, wasn't a huge fan of the voice acting (minor issue), and didn't really care for her back story.
Then in a no reload playthrough with a wild mage CHARNAME I fired a magic missle at the assassin in the Nashakl Inn and it wild surged into a fireball. It killed everyone in the inn, my rep dropped to 1, and Khalid and Minsc instantly left my part and started attacking me.
I find her back story to be extremely realistic in the BG world now, and sympathize with her more than I previously did. True story.
Here is why my take on 5, 6, and 7 aren't an opinion as much as they are a fact. If I make 10 dollars an hour, and I replay BG enough that the game downloading itself, installing itself, modding itself, and being updated and supported by Beamdog save me ONE hour in all my various installs and play throughs. I break even.
I think 5, 6, and 7 are still opinion. For one, installing and modding BG doesn't demand your full attention. When I've done it in the past, I've read a book, gotten some writing done, or even played other games in the meantime. Secondly, even if you make $10 an hour, that doesn't mean your leisure time is easily convertible into more money. Most people don't work jobs where they can call the boss and say "Hey boss, I just had an extra hour free up, can I come in and work?" and the response is "Sure, I'll pay you $10 to come in and do some busy work outside your shift." Time may be money, as the cliche goes, but that doesn't mean saving someone an hour is equivalent to putting a ten dollar bill in their pocket.
Regardless, @belgarathmth makes an excellent point in that these were all concerns that people were complaining about in multiple threads right here at launch, and we also had everyone whining about the delayed release date before that in the equation. I think all the smug superiority in this thread is a bit unfounded.
Comments
"Dude 18 minutes ago
are scam now allowed on steam?
Just wondering, I tought that steam would protect us"
Also, someone said that the steam version is missing the 2 latest patches so... No big surprise if it's somewhat more buggy for them.
1- Installing tutu+mods is a boring thing
2- Windows 7 randomly prevents me from doing stuff with my old games.
So I'm pretty happy with BG:EE!
There should be NO SURPRISE that the steam forums have people disliking the game. That is normal! For every forum! Guess what? This forum had many who disliked the game when it first came out too!
Steam offers a lot. BG:EE offers a lot. People need to get off their high horse. Don't like steam? Don't use it. Don't like BG:EE? don't play it.
Bloody relax.
Let them hate all they want. If people listen to hating without actual reasoning behind then they don't deserve to play the game.
@chickenhead I couldn't have said it better myself.
Heh, I'm not saying this is for everyone... but this is kind of what happens a lot.
For those who have the original game modded in a way that suits them and don't mind the effort to reassemble their collection of mods when they get a new PC, the enhanced edition is likely not a good value. For me, if anything, Beamdog made too many changes, but overall I'm happy with my purchase.
It's sort of like going out to eat vs. cooking at home. You might be able to prepare a meal better tailored to your tastes at home, but sometimes convenience is worth paying for.
I'm j/k of course
I think there are a few reasons why people don't like BG:EE.
1 - The Internet has no 'delete' button. Some people probably still thought they were getting a fully HD remake. Even if the HD remake took place the graphics would not of been great compared to modern games, so they would of complained regardless.
2-Modern gamers are not accustomed to sophisticated games like BG, so the difficult probably came at a shock.
3-Another common complaint is that you have to micro-manage your party members. Even way back with NWN, your party members were controlled by the computer. All newer group based games, the computer controls the character. BG is more like an RTS in this regard, which I prefer.
4-I do think that some of the bugs are a turnoff, but again, I just don't think game breaking bugs exist in BG:EE. There are annoyances, but other than early crash bugs which have already been fixed, I am not aware of something preventing people from playing.
What's really sad are the people who want everything voiced simply because they don't want to read, and they don't seem to realise how much voice acting limits your dialogue options and how much it costs. I mean, really? You pick a game in the most reading-intensive genre out there, and you demand that developers spend huge amounts of money just so you don't have to engage in this one essential life skill?
This is just a game. If you don't like it then don't play. People love this game and are working on it.
#3 is my favorite part of the game and one of the main reasons I play it
Every post you make is awesome. However, your forum name should have been Irenicus.
1) The resolution is blurry.
2) The resolution cannot be easily adjusted.
3) The enhancement introduced many new bugs.
4) The new characters are flat and uninteresting. The NPC project and modded NPC's are much better.
5) You can get all three games in one package from Gog for less money.
6) Everything BG:EE does, a modded Gog version or disc version can do better, and for less money.
7) Twenty dollars is too much to pay for what you wind up getting.
8) The new areas and the Black Pits are not in the artistic style and spirit of the original game.
Please understand that none of these are necessarily my own opinions. These are just a summary of the ones I read in the Steam forums. I must admit that I have a hard time disagreeing with some of the criticisms. They just weren't enough to dissuade me from buying and supporting the project. Other people made the opposite decision.
Also, please don't call people from other forums names. That makes us look just as angry, bitter, and unkind as they tend to be, and we're supposed to be better than that.
#1 and #2 are just the nature of the game. Though I see #2 as a non issue because the interface scales appropriately to my resolution, and the main game window has a zoom feature that while some don't like, I make heavy use of. If they implement a zoom lock then this feature will be rock solid.
#3 is out weighed by things that were fixed, and they continue to fix bugs that remain or were introduced. This point isn't taking into consideration the constant support and updates we've been seeing and how they will impact the direction of the game.
#5 and #6 just isn't true, 10 dollars more to not have to install mods and have constant support is worth 10 dollars. Extra NPCs, areas, and the black pits are just icing on the cake. This also makes #7 not true.
Here is why my take on 5, 6, and 7 aren't an opinion as much as they are a fact. If I make 10 dollars an hour, and I replay BG enough that the game downloading itself, installing itself, modding itself, and being updated and supported by Beamdog save me ONE hour in all my various installs and play throughs. I break even.
#8 so Evil Illithid's capturing an adventuring party and forcing them to fight to the death gladiator style in the Underdark IS within the spirit of the original game? But an adventuring group getting captured by a evil Drow and forcing them to fight to the death gladiator style in the Underdark ISN'T within the spirit of the original game?
So what we are left with is graphics from 10+ years ago aren't as good as graphics from today. And I don't like the new NPCs.
If the graphics are an issue then this game probably isn't for you.
If you don't like the new NPCs ignore them and wait for NPC project to be modded for BGEE.
Edit:
I would agree that Beamdog really dropped the ball, let their customers down, and this entire game sucks if things had been left the way they were when the game released.
But the time in which they responded to issues, and put out 4 updates between the end of November and I think Dec 14th? Was nothing short of amazing and a support level you don't see from any company anywhere.
Edit 2:
On the NPCs being flat. I disliked Neera the most, wasn't a huge fan of the voice acting (minor issue), and didn't really care for her back story.
Then in a no reload playthrough with a wild mage CHARNAME I fired a magic missle at the assassin in the Nashakl Inn and it wild surged into a fireball. It killed everyone in the inn, my rep dropped to 1, and Khalid and Minsc instantly left my part and started attacking me.
I find her back story to be extremely realistic in the BG world now, and sympathize with her more than I previously did. True story.
Regardless, @belgarathmth makes an excellent point in that these were all concerns that people were complaining about in multiple threads right here at launch, and we also had everyone whining about the delayed release date before that in the equation. I think all the smug superiority in this thread is a bit unfounded.