@Vortican Again, from an economic theory standpoint I think you and me are two peas in a pod. But Valve really is wielding a large amount of influence in the industry already and I don't want that to grow. This demographic isn't always the most rational and I think that can distort typical market forces. I definitely don't want any regulatory solutions! But the refrain of "Release on Steam or else" seems perilous to me. The game will release on Steam eventually, no need to force it along.
@VampQueen31 I certainly hope you're right. This game does speak very well to the community of gamers on PC that I enjoy being a part of still. And your arguments in this regard sound a lot like mine over on the anti-DRM thread that is nothing if not entertaining to read But the iTunes store is an example of the state of things I am afraid of with Steam. It isn't an apples to apples comparison, hehe. But I think the same risks are present.
@Doom972 I see your point and agree with it in a vacuum, but the world doesn't operate in a vacuum. The same thing could be said of consoles. Exclusive titles do encourage competition between the entire ecosystems surrounding the platforms. We did have a virtual monopoly in the NES days since the Master System didn't really sell in this country. By virtue of there only being one real option, all games were available on it. It was not good for the industry. Nintendo enforced many negative policies that found it in court more than once. I like having a three system industry that forces all of them to be competitive in every way. I think the day Sega became truly relevant was a great day for console gaming. It got even better when Sony entered the fray and then Microsoft.
Steam is not my cup of tea, but I'm glad it exists. GOG is my absolute favorite and I'm glad it exists. I HATE anything EA, but I'm still glad they're bringing some competition to the field. And I wish Microsoft the best of luck with their new store. Competition is a great thing and will only force everyone to improve. I'm an Intel guy through and through, but I'm always pulling for AMD to do great things.
Again, this doesn't create competition, it just secures the place of the consoles, regardless of their actual quality. If the companies don't compete over the consumer by offering a better product, then that's not competition. For example: Nintendo has a monopoly on Mario games. If you want to play Mario games you have to buy their consoles. A consumer doesn't get a real choice if his favorite games are available through only one console. The exclusives don't give a serious edge to any of the console companies, but merely secure a certain part of the market, regardless of whether they deserve it. Another example of this is the Xbox Live monthly subscription. This thing has no right to exist, since the competitors supply the same service for free, but because many people want to play Halo/Gears of War online, Microsoft doesn't have to compete with Sony and Nintendo in that area.
The Intel-AMD example, is and example of good competition. You can do the same thing with both companies' processors, but at a varying performance/price ratio, and it's up for the consumer to get what he thinks is best suited for him.
I don't disagree with the bulk of what you're saying, @Doom972, but Nintendo doesn't have a monopoly on Mario. They own Mario, it's their own intellectual property, and they only release it on their own system.
You can't have a monopoly on an IP. That's like saying Tolkien had a monopoly on Middle Earth because he was the only one writing stories about Middle Earth.
I don't disagree with the bulk of what you're saying, @Doom972, but Nintendo doesn't have a monopoly on Mario. They own Mario, it's their own intellectual property, and they only release it on their own system.
You can't have a monopoly on an IP. That's like saying Tolkien had a monopoly on Middle Earth because he was the only one writing stories about Middle Earth.
I know it's not technically considered a monopoly, maybe there's another word for it. The fact is that Nintendo doesn't have to compete over people who like Mario and can sell them any console they make and they'll have to buy it regardless of its quality, unless it's something as utterly terrible as the Virtual Boy.
But they do have competition from other ecosystems. The Nintendo/Mario system taken as a whole has had to compete with Sega/Sonic, Sony/Crash, Sony/Ratchet & Clank, MS/Halo, and plenty of others. They don't compete on individual games, they compete on overall experience.
This is the same thing as you are seeing here. Beamdog wants to use BG:EE to create an overall experience you can't get on Steam and compete that way. I think they will eventually release on other platforms. But for now they will not be doing so and have chosen competition. This is their Mario.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make, @_Q_. That book seems like propaganda at worst, or at best something that isn't really understanding what IP means in terms of creative works.
EDIT: Nope, after looking at other parts of the site, it's definitely propaganda...
Without getting too political about it, IP is not in and of itself a bad thing at all. The problem is that lobbying groups have managed to subvert what was once a very fair system. Things once went to the public domain in a reasonable amount of time and a good balance between enriching the creator and enriching society was the result. Now nothing ever seems to expire and patents are a weapon of litigation and extortion. This seems to be a subject more fitting for the DRM thread since that is a mechanism for the continuation of this issue.
@Aosaw Your term may be technically correct, but it does carry some heavy connotations. The words "Ignorant" and "Retarded" are both words that should also be avoided even when technically appropriate because of the connotations they introduce to a conversation. If the choice of words hinders the exchange of ideas it should probably be changed. Especially on the internet
I'm just saying, the argument it poses is decidedly one-sided, which doesn't lend itself to a debate about facts.
The term "monopoly" has connotations as well, and that website cashes in on those connotations to elicit an emotional reaction from its readers. As someone who creates works of his own (which are, by their very definition, my own intellectual property or IP), I take exception to that kind of rhetoric, which seems to call every artist who wants to retain rights to his own art is some kind of mad scheming hellhound bent on disrupting progress.
@Aosaw I agree. "Monopoly" has definitely picked up some baggage in the techie crowd over the last decade. I'm guilty of using the M word here and at other places. The issue for most reasonable people isn't whether or not a creator should be rewarded, of course they should be rewarded. The question is for how long and with how much control. Disney and friends would have it set in law that they own all rights in perpetuity even if they originally took the idea from the public domain. They employ the DMCA to enforce this strategy. Push back is reasonable.
It sounds a bit harsh, but I'm sick of having a gazillion different accounts and clients. I'll buy it instantly on steam for 19$. Tell that to your shareholders or whoever is holding back your business potential...
Thanks for reading.
Same for me. I would definitely buy this on Steam but as long as it ain't there Beamdog or whoever is behind this won't get a cent from me.
It sounds a bit harsh, but I'm sick of having a gazillion different accounts and clients. I'll buy it instantly on steam for 19$. Tell that to your shareholders or whoever is holding back your business potential...
Thanks for reading.
Same for me. I would definitely buy this on Steam but as long as it ain't there Beamdog or whoever is behind this won't get a cent from me.
From what I've read you don't even need Beamdog to get BGEE.
It sounds a bit harsh, but I'm sick of having a gazillion different accounts and clients. I'll buy it instantly on steam for 19$. Tell that to your shareholders or whoever is holding back your business potential...
Thanks for reading.
Same for me. I would definitely buy this on Steam but as long as it ain't there Beamdog or whoever is behind this won't get a cent from me.
From what I've read you don't even need Beamdog to get BGEE.
And he would know this if he'd bothered to read through this thread or read the FAQ.
This "bhaah, I only buy games if it's available on Steam" nonsense is incredible tiring.
Just download the game on beamdog's web page, no client needed. Is that really so hard to understand?
This "bhaah, I only buy games if it's available on Steam" nonsense is incredible tiring.
Just download the game on beamdog's web page, no client needed. Is that really so hard to understand?
That's probably the best thing about BG:EE. I won't have to use yet another client to download and play the game and the developers did say that it is *temporarily* exclusive to BeamDog so it does hint that it might be on Steam eventually. If it does, I'll gladly buy it on Steam to show my support.
I use and enjoy Steam for the convenience but it's not the only client I use. I also use Battle.net for Blizzard Games because I know they won't put their games on Steam.
So for now, I'll play BG:EE from the Beamdog website until there's word on a wider release.
There is one thing steam is very good at, it's the steamplay support, which allows you to have the game for Microsoft Windows and Mac OS by buying the game only once!! That would be a great solution for people who have for instance a MacBook when they are on a journey, and a Windows tower when at home. I'm also asking if that solution could be found on BeamDog or not. I have heard there would not be a boxed release, and i'm so sad of that, because even if the boxed edition is 30 or 40$, if you have Mac OS and Windows ( and even Android .apk ) with a great DVD, I will immediatly buy it, and put it on my desk, near my other BG boxes^^.
Most die-hard BG fans are going to buy BG:EE and BG2:EE immediately through Beamdog. They know this, so it insures the company will receive the most revenue returned to them. After the BG2:EE sales start to slip, I would expect that both games hit Steam, as individual titles and as a bundle.
A new title to Steam is a new title to Steam, when it hits is irrelevant.
It sounds a bit harsh, but I'm sick of having a gazillion different accounts and clients. I'll buy it instantly on steam for 19$. Tell that to your shareholders or whoever is holding back your business potential...
Thanks for reading.
Same for me. I would definitely buy this on Steam but as long as it ain't there Beamdog or whoever is behind this won't get a cent from me.
See you in game in about a year then. Enjoy not playing in the meantime, I'm sure Steam appreciates it.
It sounds a bit harsh, but I'm sick of having a gazillion different accounts and clients. I'll buy it instantly on steam for 19$. Tell that to your shareholders or whoever is holding back your business potential...
Thanks for reading.
Same for me. I would definitely buy this on Steam but as long as it ain't there Beamdog or whoever is behind this won't get a cent from me.
From what I've read you don't even need Beamdog to get BGEE.
And he would know this if he'd bothered to read through this thread or read the FAQ.
This "bhaah, I only buy games if it's available on Steam" nonsense is incredible tiring.
Just download the game on beamdog's web page, no client needed. Is that really so hard to understand?
What did my post have to do with needing Beamdog client? The reason I won't buy this from Beamdog is because then I will have to add another website to my list I need to remember login, etc. if I ever want to re-download the game. As opposed to having all my games in one central please where I can easily install/unistall, update, etc. them. It's just a convience factor and you can act all high and mighty about how stupid that is to you, but in the end I know I'm not the only person who thinks like that.
The reason I won't buy this from Beamdog is because then I will have to add another website to my list I need to remember login, etc.
@Messi are you actually one of the few on the internet who have different login/password for each and every website ? You impress me
Personnally, I don't think re-downloading the game will be a problem. Google -> type in bgee and beamdog gets first. No need to remember anything else and I pretty happy with my life.
@Messi You did complain that you didn't want another client. I answered that. Read your own post again. Like any other game, you just search the name of the game, go to the relevant web page, download and install. No steam needed! You do need to have a login of course, like you did to be able to post here. You managed that just fine, didn't you?
Again, you don't need to download Beamdog Client, you can add the game to Steam afterwards. If its so hard, don't buy the game, and miss out on the evolution of the best RPG ever.
@Messi You did complain that you didn't want another client. I answered that. Read your own post again
Maybe you should learn to read yourself. Beamdog is the name of their store which is the only place to buy this atm.
@Medillen yes, I keep different pw for everything. Basic security rule really!
You're right, I'm sorry! I just now realized that I mixed d3vilsadvocate’s post with yours, as you qouted it together with your statement. It was him who mentions the Client business.
My bad.
But I still won't ever understand this whole fixation on Steam as an all or nothing proposition. If you had it your way, Overhaul/Beamdog would make next to no money on the release. They have to pay Wizards of the Coast, Atari and maybe other license holders, 30% to Applenfor the iOS release, and on top of that, pay Valve for the privelige of being on Steam?
It makes absolutely no sense for them to do that. They're a very small company, Trent Oster using paying out of his own pocket for the development. They have to make a living too.
And it could not be easier to get the game. We don't even have to leave our residence to buy the game like we had to just a few years ago. Having to make a user profile and a password as an excuse for boycotting an effort like this is just,... Well, to be polite, it just doesn't make any sense.
Comments
@VampQueen31 I certainly hope you're right. This game does speak very well to the community of gamers on PC that I enjoy being a part of still. And your arguments in this regard sound a lot like mine over on the anti-DRM thread that is nothing if not entertaining to read
Heh, "right Steam conspiracy"... You sound like my father.
Another example of this is the Xbox Live monthly subscription. This thing has no right to exist, since the competitors supply the same service for free, but because many people want to play Halo/Gears of War online, Microsoft doesn't have to compete with Sony and Nintendo in that area.
The Intel-AMD example, is and example of good competition. You can do the same thing with both companies' processors, but at a varying performance/price ratio, and it's up for the consumer to get what he thinks is best suited for him.
You can't have a monopoly on an IP. That's like saying Tolkien had a monopoly on Middle Earth because he was the only one writing stories about Middle Earth.
This is the same thing as you are seeing here. Beamdog wants to use BG:EE to create an overall experience you can't get on Steam and compete that way. I think they will eventually release on other platforms. But for now they will not be doing so and have chosen competition. This is their Mario.
EDIT: Nope, after looking at other parts of the site, it's definitely propaganda...
Look at the rhetoric being used. This website is clearly promoting some kind of agenda, and demonizing its opposition.
If that's not propaganda, then Michael Moore is a talented documentarian.
The term "monopoly" has connotations as well, and that website cashes in on those connotations to elicit an emotional reaction from its readers. As someone who creates works of his own (which are, by their very definition, my own intellectual property or IP), I take exception to that kind of rhetoric, which seems to call every artist who wants to retain rights to his own art is some kind of mad scheming hellhound bent on disrupting progress.
This "bhaah, I only buy games if it's available on Steam" nonsense is incredible tiring.
Just download the game on beamdog's web page, no client needed. Is that really so hard to understand?
I use and enjoy Steam for the convenience but it's not the only client I use. I also use Battle.net for Blizzard Games because I know they won't put their games on Steam.
So for now, I'll play BG:EE from the Beamdog website until there's word on a wider release.
A new title to Steam is a new title to Steam, when it hits is irrelevant.
This "bhaah, I only buy games if it's available on Steam" nonsense is incredible tiring.
Just download the game on beamdog's web page, no client needed. Is that really so hard to understand?
What did my post have to do with needing Beamdog client? The reason I won't buy this from Beamdog is because then I will have to add another website to my list I need to remember login, etc. if I ever want to re-download the game. As opposed to having all my games in one central please where I can easily install/unistall, update, etc. them. It's just a convience factor and you can act all high and mighty about how stupid that is to you, but in the end I know I'm not the only person who thinks like that.
Personnally, I don't think re-downloading the game will be a problem. Google -> type in bgee and beamdog gets first. No need to remember anything else and I pretty happy with my life.
Are you a gamer or a collector?
You did complain that you didn't want another client. I answered that. Read your own post again.
Like any other game, you just search the name of the game, go to the relevant web page, download and install.
No steam needed!
You do need to have a login of course, like you did to be able to post here. You managed that just fine, didn't you?
Again, you don't need to download Beamdog Client, you can add the game to Steam afterwards.
If its so hard, don't buy the game, and miss out on the evolution of the best RPG ever.
@Medillen yes, I keep different pw for everything.
My bad.
But I still won't ever understand this whole fixation on Steam as an all or nothing proposition.
If you had it your way, Overhaul/Beamdog would make next to no money on the release.
They have to pay Wizards of the Coast, Atari and maybe other license holders, 30% to Applenfor the iOS release, and on top of that, pay Valve for the privelige of being on Steam?
It makes absolutely no sense for them to do that. They're a very small company, Trent Oster using paying out of his own pocket for the development. They have to make a living too.
And it could not be easier to get the game.
We don't even have to leave our residence to buy the game like we had to just a few years ago.
Having to make a user profile and a password as an excuse for boycotting an effort like this is just,... Well, to be polite, it just doesn't make any sense.