@Doom972 I think what Lediath is getting at is to look at several different possible solutions. Many of us do not want Steam to become a de facto standard that gets to operate as a monopoly. Apple serves that market just fine with the app store. We don't mind downloading from multiple locations and actually prefer it in the long run. But many of us also believe that BG:EE will eventually be listed on Steam anyway.
There are many options to solve the issue you present. Magnetic media as Lediath suggested. Cloud storage would be an option. Optical media may work. Thumb drives are dirt cheap now and can be a solution. A simple spreadsheet showing the services where you are registered may help. A folder with shortcuts to each location on the internet may work. Or any combination of any of my suggestions may alleviate the pain of an additional download site.
You seem to be very black and white on your stance of Steam or else. This seems counterproductive to many of us on a board for a game that is not presently on Steam.
I think this is pretty simple, EA has pulled all content from Steam and offered to let people move previous purcahses over to Origin. EA has come out publically several times and said they believe Steam is bad for the PC games market. EA owns the rights to BG, and BeamDog had to license those rights, so no Steam deal for the forseeable future. I think you'll more likely see a version in the Windows 8 Marketplace before you'll see the game on Steam. And since it really makes zero difference I'm more than okay with that. Gabe Newell and his big mouth probably do more damage to the PC market than anything else.
As I said before... BGEE will most likely be on Steam later just as MDK HD is now.
It is irritating how many clients there are already out there but Beamdog at least allows to run the games without the client running. I do understand the people who only buy if it's on steam. It's their way of fighting for what they want (the game released on steam) Why not, it's a choice and a game should be released in every store possible.
@bobsageek: EA says many things, few or none are correct, EA is the one that is bad for PC games. EA took some of the big hits from steam hoping to capture more people for origin, some of those games are back already because thankfuly gamers still know who treats them right. And maybe many here don't know, but Valve does. And if one day they become an evil monopoly as you fear so much... Fear not, gamers will know what to do.
@Razor You credit gamers a great deal more than I ever will. Gamers have accepted tons of DRM, day one DLC, buggy releases, draconian EULAs and a great deal more just for the right to play the new shiny hotness. Gamers do not seem to know what to do. I'm not worried about Steam becoming evil, just anti-competitive. And giving them the power to do so for no other reason than very minor convenience seems like a bad idea.
@Doom972 I think what Lediath is getting at is to look at several different possible solutions. Many of us do not want Steam to become a de facto standard that gets to operate as a monopoly. Apple serves that market just fine with the app store. We don't mind downloading from multiple locations and actually prefer it in the long run. But many of us also believe that BG:EE will eventually be listed on Steam anyway.
There are many options to solve the issue you present. Magnetic media as Lediath suggested. Cloud storage would be an option. Optical media may work. Thumb drives are dirt cheap now and can be a solution. A simple spreadsheet showing the services where you are registered may help. A folder with shortcuts to each location on the internet may work. Or any combination of any of my suggestions may alleviate the pain of an additional download site.
You seem to be very black and white on your stance of Steam or else. This seems counterproductive to many of us on a board for a game that is not presently on Steam.
I don't think that this is what he meant. Your argument is much more reasonable and I agree with you that Steam shouldn't be a monopoly, but due to its large user base, it seems logical that any PC game would be released via Steam, as well as every other possible distribution service. My final point - no service should have permanent exclusives (timed ones are acceptable), whether it's Steam or Beamdog. About the various "solutions", there are many solutions to many problems, but there's usually one that's better than the rest. I don't need any suggestions as to how to build and store my collection of games, I've thought it out and found the best solution for to me already.
Already pre-order BG-EE few minutes ago , office worker should be ok to suffer this price ~~
BG series is not only a video game for me , it also include my teen memory very much , I just hope this game can live more longer time from the new Enhanced Edition this time
If you really like BG series , i don't feel steam available or not is a issue ....
For me , if it's necessary i will buy steam version again , I can pay the momey , but i only hope that developer can make this game more complete and don't let me disappoint in new version,
As I said before... BGEE will most likely be on Steam later just as MDK HD is now.
It is irritating how many clients there are already out there but Beamdog at least allows to run the games without the client running. I do understand the people who only buy if it's on steam. It's their way of fighting for what they want (the game released on steam) Why not, it's a choice and a game should be released in every store possible.
@bobsageek: EA says many things, few or none are correct, EA is the one that is bad for PC games. EA took some of the big hits from steam hoping to capture more people for origin, some of those games are back already because thankfuly gamers still know who treats them right. And maybe many here don't know, but Valve does. And if one day they become an evil monopoly as you fear so much... Fear not, gamers will know what to do.
EA has not put anything back on Steam except titles customers previously paid for. I'm not defending EA, but I'm also not pretending Valve and Steam are saints either. Steam is over-rated and Gabe's rants are not good for PC gaming. I've got a lot of games on Steam and it has some good points, but no way would I skip a good game because it is not on Steam and anyone who does is a fool. Why would we want to promote a monopoly on digital distribution of games? Valve acts int their own self-interest and right now that interest is promoting PC games, but we can only hope that will last indefinitely.
@Tanthalas BeamDog had to license BG from EA, they are the current rights holder and the reason there won't be a boxed edition.
I don't believe anyone needs to worry about Steam becoming a monopoly. Monopolies can't exist in an unregulated marketplace (which this aspect of software currently is, as far as I know) as there will always be some competition. One company may dominate the market, as Steam now does, for some time but that never stops smaller companies from developing innovative technology that eventually becomes the standard. Steam may enjoy a few years on top, but it's not like it is, has been, or ever will be the ONLY option. The worst gamers would have to endure is a few years of Steam being the place to go for digital downloads but it won't last forever.
I personally don't mind running several clients. Then again, I don't have a collection of 200 games or time to play all day either. I'm sure having all one's games in one place is an important concern for some but in the end, it is merely a convenience.
@Vortican I'm not trying to nitpick your post. I just want to make sure I understand your position. Do you believe that Microsoft was not a monopoly when the Justice Department stepped in? I'm not saying I disagree with that position. But most people do believe Microsoft was an abusive monopoly.
@vortican i've got to disagree on this sentence "Monopolies can't exist in an unregulated marketplace". If you have, as a company, half the price for the exact same product then your competition, economical law dictates that competition will disappear. Competition is only possible if you can afford a place of equivalence with the market product. Microsoft was such a giant and had such a big chains of supplies and R/D that his product was "too good" for any competition to possibly show up, and probably the cost lessened. That CAN happen to steam in the future.
As I said before... BGEE will most likely be on Steam later just as MDK HD is now.
It is irritating how many clients there are already out there but Beamdog at least allows to run the games without the client running. I do understand the people who only buy if it's on steam. It's their way of fighting for what they want (the game released on steam) Why not, it's a choice and a game should be released in every store possible.
@bobsageek: EA says many things, few or none are correct, EA is the one that is bad for PC games. EA took some of the big hits from steam hoping to capture more people for origin, some of those games are back already because thankfuly gamers still know who treats them right. And maybe many here don't know, but Valve does. And if one day they become an evil monopoly as you fear so much... Fear not, gamers will know what to do.
EA has not put anything back on Steam except titles customers previously paid for. I'm not defending EA, but I'm also not pretending Valve and Steam are saints either. Steam is over-rated and Gabe's rants are not good for PC gaming. I've got a lot of games on Steam and it has some good points, but no way would I skip a good game because it is not on Steam and anyone who does is a fool. Why would we want to promote a monopoly on digital distribution of games? Valve acts int their own self-interest and right now that interest is promoting PC games, but we can only hope that will last indefinitely.
@Tanthalas BeamDog had to license BG from EA, they are the current rights holder and the reason there won't be a boxed edition.
EA put Crysis 2 back a few months ago (the first game they removed).
EA aren't the license holders for BG. Atari (formetly Infogrames) are a division of Hasbro, which also owns Wizards of the Coast, are the license holders for most (if not all) D&D based games. The acquisition of Bioware by EA didn't come with temporary licenses given to them by Atari and Lucas Arts.
Having a game released through multiple distribution platforms doesn't encourage a monopoly.
@Doom972 with you specifically? Nothing. I never said I wanted *you* to do anything. I merely provided another possible solution to a problem that you posed on the thread for people to consider.
@vortican i've got to disagree on this sentence "Monopolies can't exist in an unregulated marketplace". If you have, as a company, half the price for the exact same product then your competition, economical law dictates that competition will disappear. Competition is only possible if you can afford a place of equivalence with the market product. Microsoft was such a giant and had such a big chains of supplies and R/D that his product was "too good" for any competition to possibly show up, and probably the cost lessened. That CAN happen to steam in the future.
@Treyolen, I have never considered Microsoft to be a monopoly at any time during it's existence. Of course, my determination of what constitutes a monopoly probably differs from others, but at no time was any company barred from entering the browser or operating system market on PC hardware. It was difficult to do it, but it wasn't impossible, and there have always been several competitors in both arenas all throughout Microsoft's existence. Even Milton Friedman understood that the ruling in that case was quite a different animal from what usually is perceived as a monopoly and correctly pointed out that it introduced extensive government regulation into a market where it previously was largely uninhibited. That is, in my view, how monopolies actually occur.
@Medillen, competition doesn't up and disappear just because you sell your product cheaper than the other guy. Absent government regulation, there's no way for even a behemoth company to prevent another firm from offering the same item. They may not be able to offer it for anywhere close to the same price, but that's not a monopoly where competition is absolutely excluded. Even Standard Oil had over 100 competitors in the marketplace before it was declared a monopoly and broken up just because it was the biggest. Personally, I don't fear the existence of large and successful firms that offer products that everyone uses at reasonable prices, even if there are few competitors. It means they are providing services to their customers better than everyone else, unless they're getting unfair advantages from the government, which CAN me used to exclude competitors and create barriers to entry. To my knowledge, Microsoft had no such advantage and simply ran its business better than everyone else. That's not a monopoly. Besides, there's always been an alternative to Windows or Internet Explorer... thank God.
@vortican apparently we have different definition of monopoly, of competition and probably, of economy altogether. I've had few academics course and read some books. What you describe is against everything I've learned. That doesn't mean I'm right and you are wrong, because it isn't an exact science and thus always subjet to debate, but I'm afraid we can't come close to a common ground due to my academics bias.
@Vortican I actually agree with almost everything you posted there. But you do realize that we're in the minority? And monopoly may be a strong word that I've used. But competition is a good thing regardless of monopoly status. Intel was completely complacent during the end of the Pentium III line and the beginning of the Pentium IV line. AMD offered real competition that bested them in almost every metric. Boy oh boy did the empire strike back. Intel has been on an absolute roll in the last five years. Without a viable competitor this would not have happened. I don't want to see Steam ever get to the market position Intel was at before the Athlon launched. And I think that is what is happening.
Medillen, I agree that our perspectives probably differ greatly, and I'm glad you see that our economic education is probably the culprit. I find it appalling that most educational institutions don't teach multiple economic theories and let the students decide which is most likely the preferable system. It's probably the case of other subjects as well, but most schools offer courses in World Religions, different views on medicine, philosophy, etc. Why not economics?
@Doom972 Insisting that a game must be released on one distribution channel in particular does encourage a monopoly.
No, insisting that a game must be released on one distribution channel EXCLUSIVELY encourages monopoly. If the game will be available on Steam, GOG, Beamdog, Gamersgate, etc. we can all get it where it's comfortable for us, the consumers.
@Doom972, EA and Bioware both have stakes in the BG license, Hasbro/Wizards own rights to D&D and have some say but don't have exclusive rights to previously released D&D based titles but only how D&D trademarks and assets are used. And while clearly not aimed at anyone specifically, I stand by my statement that skipping a good game because it's not on Steam is foolish. If you chose to take that as a personal insult you can, but it was aimed at no one in paticular and should not be taken as such.
EA has not put anything back on Steam except titles customers previously paid for. I'm not defending EA, but I'm also not pretending Valve and Steam are saints either. Steam is over-rated and Gabe's rants are not good for PC gaming. I've got a lot of games on Steam and it has some good points, but no way would I skip a good game because it is not on Steam and anyone who does is a fool. Why would we want to promote a monopoly on digital distribution of games? Valve acts int their own self-interest and right now that interest is promoting PC games, but we can only hope that will last indefinitely.
@Tanthalas BeamDog had to license BG from EA, they are the current rights holder and the reason there won't be a boxed edition.
No? How about Crysis 2 to start... Also there are 54 EA games on Steam. ALSO I was at gamescon and Steam/Valve was promoting.... INDIE GAMES, such an evil deed... promoting indies when they should be promoting their own games...
@Doom972, EA and Bioware both have stakes in the BG license, Hasbro/Wizards own rights to D&D and have some say but don't have exclusive rights to previously released D&D based titles but only how D&D trademarks and assets are used. And while clearly not aimed at anyone specifically, I stand by my statement that skipping a good game because it's not on Steam is foolish. If you chose to take that as a personal insult you can, but it was aimed at no one in paticular and should not be taken as such.
Where are you getting this from? Inforgrames (now Atari), gave a limited license to Bioware to make the BG series. As the publisher, Atari still has all the rights to the game. EA has nothing to do with it, fortunately for us. My proof? Go to baldursgate.com (yes, this site), and look at the bottom who are behind this game. You'll find Hasbro ,Wizards of the Coast, Overhaul, and Atari. No EA. Let us be thankful for that.
@Lediath Well earned hate for destroying my two all time favorite developers, Origins and Bioware. Three if you count the old school EA organization before Madden took over.
LOL, yeah EA gets a lot of flack. I've never actually heard of "Origins" dev team, but I am a fan of BioWare. I think for the most part, BioWare even after the EA acquisition has done right by the consumer.
I agree with Lediath. I've not seen much evidence to indicate that Bioware has been negatively influenced by their merger with EA. I know some people were not happy with Dragon Age 2, but I don't believe that had anything to do with EA and I still loved the game. Seems to me that Bioware still has near complete independence in the games they design and build and they've done fabulously forever. Haven't met a Bioware game I haven't loved.
Bioware is a God and it's not easy to kill a God but EA will probably manage. It's really hard for me to say this about my beloved Bioware but they are changing, and most likely because of EA, the devil is in the details. When people start leaving, studios closing... EA should just stay away from other studios, far away.
Comments
There are many options to solve the issue you present. Magnetic media as Lediath suggested. Cloud storage would be an option. Optical media may work. Thumb drives are dirt cheap now and can be a solution. A simple spreadsheet showing the services where you are registered may help. A folder with shortcuts to each location on the internet may work. Or any combination of any of my suggestions may alleviate the pain of an additional download site.
You seem to be very black and white on your stance of Steam or else. This seems counterproductive to many of us on a board for a game that is not presently on Steam.
It is irritating how many clients there are already out there but Beamdog at least allows to run the games without the client running.
I do understand the people who only buy if it's on steam. It's their way of fighting for what they want (the game released on steam) Why not, it's a choice and a game should be released in every store possible.
@bobsageek: EA says many things, few or none are correct, EA is the one that is bad for PC games.
EA took some of the big hits from steam hoping to capture more people for origin, some of those games are back already because thankfuly gamers still know who treats them right. And maybe many here don't know, but Valve does. And if one day they become an evil monopoly as you fear so much... Fear not, gamers will know what to do.
You'll notice that EA and Bioware do not appear at the bottom of this webpage. I'm not sure if they have any kind of involvement with BGEE.
About the various "solutions", there are many solutions to many problems, but there's usually one that's better than the rest. I don't need any suggestions as to how to build and store my collection of games, I've thought it out and found the best solution for to me already.
BG series is not only a video game for me , it also include my teen memory very much ,
I just hope this game can live more longer time from the new Enhanced Edition this time
If you really like BG series , i don't feel steam available or not is a issue ....
For me , if it's necessary i will buy steam version again ,
I can pay the momey , but i only hope that developer can make this game more complete and don't let me disappoint in new version,
@Tanthalas BeamDog had to license BG from EA, they are the current rights holder and the reason there won't be a boxed edition.
I personally don't mind running several clients. Then again, I don't have a collection of 200 games or time to play all day either. I'm sure having all one's games in one place is an important concern for some but in the end, it is merely a convenience.
EA aren't the license holders for BG. Atari (formetly Infogrames) are a division of Hasbro, which also owns Wizards of the Coast, are the license holders for most (if not all) D&D based games. The acquisition of Bioware by EA didn't come with temporary licenses given to them by Atari and Lucas Arts.
Having a game released through multiple distribution platforms doesn't encourage a monopoly.
Insults are uncalled for, BTW.
@Medillen, competition doesn't up and disappear just because you sell your product cheaper than the other guy. Absent government regulation, there's no way for even a behemoth company to prevent another firm from offering the same item. They may not be able to offer it for anywhere close to the same price, but that's not a monopoly where competition is absolutely excluded. Even Standard Oil had over 100 competitors in the marketplace before it was declared a monopoly and broken up just because it was the biggest. Personally, I don't fear the existence of large and successful firms that offer products that everyone uses at reasonable prices, even if there are few competitors. It means they are providing services to their customers better than everyone else, unless they're getting unfair advantages from the government, which CAN me used to exclude competitors and create barriers to entry. To my knowledge, Microsoft had no such advantage and simply ran its business better than everyone else. That's not a monopoly. Besides, there's always been an alternative to Windows or Internet Explorer... thank God.
This is what you're speaking about right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercive_monopoly
Medillen, I agree that our perspectives probably differ greatly, and I'm glad you see that our economic education is probably the culprit. I find it appalling that most educational institutions don't teach multiple economic theories and let the students decide which is most likely the preferable system. It's probably the case of other subjects as well, but most schools offer courses in World Religions, different views on medicine, philosophy, etc. Why not economics?
Also there are 54 EA games on Steam.
ALSO I was at gamescon and Steam/Valve was promoting.... INDIE GAMES, such an evil deed... promoting indies when they should be promoting their own games...
My proof? Go to baldursgate.com (yes, this site), and look at the bottom who are behind this game. You'll find Hasbro ,Wizards of the Coast, Overhaul, and Atari. No EA. Let us be thankful for that.