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Create a random game (optional no-reload speed game contest included) (spoilers)

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Comments

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited May 2013
    Wanderon said:

    Pretty much every game I play is either no reload or minimal reload - challenge or not - but the adrenalin rush of the no reload tends to make the minimal reload feel quite mundane to me and I find myself losing interest quickly (especially if it begins as a no reload and has to be adjusted down to minimal after a death). I find it changes my tactics and general attitude towards what can or can't be done in combat when I know that if things go south I get a do-over.

    On the other hand I think the minimal reload might be a better option for games more centered on roleplay aspects altho I'm not sure that the random set up we are using is the best vehicle for a heavy roleplay campaign particularly from the standpoint of the party choices being more or less forced on you with no opportunity to change it. To me that seems to limit rather than enhance the opportunity to roleplay but it does a good job to increase the challenge of combat with the less than perfect party structure.

    For my money the "let the fates decide" model is a much better venue for heavy roleplay and more likely to remain interesting in spite of a minimal reload baseline since RP becomes more the point of the campaign and combat just a puzzle to solve along the way.

    In any case I certainly have no objection to adding a minimal reload option and perhaps there could be some manner in which to score the game based on the number of reloads vs how far the party progresses.

    Like a certain amount points awarded for each chapter completed perhaps scaled to the difficulty selected (core normal etc) and maybe also scaled to the chapters difficulty -(Chap 4 in Cloakwood perhaps ranking considerably higher than Chap 1 or 2 ).

    Then a penalty could be assessed for each reload - perhaps scaling upward - the more reloads - the more each one costs?

    Then of course you could also award points based on how awesome or gimped your random party turns out perhaps assigning scores to each available NPC with high end (useful) NPCs getting low or minus scores (their usefulness is their bonus) and low end ones getting high scores to reward you (increase your scores)for getting through with less than stellar companions...

    The possibilities are endless...LOL
    This is really good feedback, thanks!

    My gut feeling, too, is that the offshoot versions such as Roleplayed and No-Meta-gaming, and their various combinations, may be just too difficult for a No-Reload challenge that uses randomly generated parties. So the thought occurred to me that Minimal Reload might be the only way to really make them viable!

    The exception to this is SCS by itself (not Roleplayed and fully meta-gamed), which just makes tactics more difficult. Many players can enjoy that as long as they're free to go full-on with the meta-gaming.

    Although the hallmark of 'Let the Fates Decide' is using cards and dice, I'm playing it also Minimal Reload (PC death only), and that has given the game that feeling of danger one gets with No-Reload. However there is considerably less restriction on party members (who is encountered and may join--as well as whether a NPC gets resurrected--is determined primarily by roleplaying, and secondarily by turning a card). I feel like in that game I've found there's a nice sweet spot for danger/tension because it is balanced by the certainty that I can complete the game. And, as mentioned, the method also imposes some limitations on who may join. But that's still a far cry from the Random Generation model in which we're limited strictly to the characters we roll. And again, that may just prove too difficult to be fun when even more restrictions are added in via RP and/or No-Meta-gaming.

    Another thing to consider is that if you earnestly roleplay all the characters according to alignment/backstory/banters, including your own vision of the PC, then a lot of these random generated parties really have no business forming to begin with. For example, would a LG paladin really add Dorn to her party? No! At best, you'd have to come up with some sort of very twisted logic to make these parties work RP-wise. And that basically undermines the integrity of roleplaying! (Trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, etc.)

    The 'Roleplayed & No-Meta-gaming' approach is really about deepening immersion and interactivity with the story itself. You're then enjoying a lot of creative fun with how the story develops. (Although interesting tactical challenges do arise as a byproduct of that.) And in order to maintain the integrity of that experience, my sense now is that it's best not to impose onto it the party structure model that we use in this challenge.

    So... one possibility is for our challenge here to have only the following categories:

    Classic
    EEKeepered PCs Allowed
    SCS

    And I guess maybe we can still brainstorm a bit as to whether there is some satisfying way to integrate the random generation method with RP, No-Meta-gaming, and Using Cards & Dice. Perhaps some way can be dreamt up.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
    JuliusBorisov
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    edited May 2013
    @ICN the improved mulahey battle and improved kobolds components of SCS are as far as I know still bugged. I didn't install either.
    What SCS version do you use? In my install I saw no component that allows to choose NPC's proficiencies or abilities (I think that was a component of the mod Level1NPC for BG2). What I do is I usually pick fighters and thieves as early as I can so I can develop their abilities, and pick the mages later on when they are higher level. Who needs a level 2-7HP Xan anyway?

    Taking screenshots is really easy, just hit the "print screen" key and they are automagically copied (bmp) in the "ScrnShot" game folder (in windows7 it is C:\Users\your_user\Documents\Baldur's Gate - Enhanced Edition\ScrnShot)

    dstoltzfus
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited May 2013
    Okay, next set of five:
    9361 539
    TN female elf Mage (3 re-rolls - Female6)
    Imoen
    Jaheira
    Viconia
    Eldoth
    Faldorn

    8185 447
    LN female human Blade (4 re-rolls - Female4)
    Xzar
    Khalid
    Jaheira
    Eldoth
    Faldorn

    1071 597
    TN male ? race Thief (9 re-rolls - Male4)
    Xzar
    Kivan
    Edwin
    Shar-Teel
    Safana

    1356 802
    NE TN male elf half-elf Shapeshifter (0 re-rolls! - Male1)
    Kivan
    Branwen
    Dorn
    Safana
    Eldoth

    4603 198
    LG male gnome Fighter/Illusionist (9 re-rolls - Male5)
    Kagain
    Branwen
    Shar-teel
    Viconia
    Alora
    The third, fourth, and fifth rolls look best to me. Can't decide. It'll be a while before I play one, but those are my choices.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
    WanderonJuliusBorisov
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    The F/I looks amazing other than there's no second mage. It's probably the most powerful set-up nonetheless.

    You could try a dual-class with the Pick Race Thief. Thief -> Cleric with that party..? lol it'd be interesting

  • ICNICN Member Posts: 61
    @dstoltzfus Those were my thoughts on my current run, but at the moment I still wander around without a well-formed plan much of the time. Saunter to a new area, find out that I didn't need it, then go back. Only 16 short hours needed! Tarnesh and the Ankhegs weren't a problem, since I was level 4 at the time with the Ankheg plate mail from Nashkel.

    @Dexter My bad on the npc component. I keep a tab open to the SCS readme where it's listed as one of the features, but I guess it hasn't made it into the current version yet. Thank you for the help with screenshots.

    I've had a fair amount of free time lately, so I was able to get another good session today. I was considering doing a roleplay thing, but this post will be long as is.

    Picking up at the Firewine Bridge, I killed Melium in a 5 on 1 "duel" and then went to the Nashkel circus. We took care of Zordral, and then proceeded to Nashkel itself. We returned a ring, received our honors from the mayor, and killed Nimbul. After that I rolled on up to Bassilus's area, killed the man himself, the hobgoblin with the nice sword, and rescued a talking chicken. Emergency rations well in hand, the group continued on to the lighthouse area where we saved a boy from some wargs and looted the treasure cave. My PC is finally regenerating which was quite helpful. At that point the business with Melicamp was resolved (he lived), and the bounty on Bassilus was turned in. The party picked up it's order of Ankheg armor from the blacksmith at that point, as well as buying the Shadow Armor. At that point we killed Tranzig, and bluffed our way into the Bandit Camp through the guards in Peldvale.

    Tazok's tent was the most difficult battle by that point. The party went in with haste and resist fear up, my PC had his rage going, and Baeloth had shield and mirror image. Baeloth died quickly to the archers inside, which ruined any hope of taking on the rest of the bandits outside. Shar-Teel nearly went down, but a heal by Viconia brought her out of the danger zone. Charname quaffed a potion of swiftness and the bandits finally started going down which turned the tables. I finally remembered to nab a screenshot at the end.
    image


    After the blindness wore off of Shar-Teel and Charname, I went outside to discuss the matter of an armor transaction with Taughauz. After a spirited debate left Montaron dead at the hand's of Taughauz's crushing rhetoric, the surviving members of the party quaffed invisibility potions and limped back to the Friendly Arm. Once the dead members of the party had been revived and brought back to full strength, it was off to Cloakwood. In the interest of length, I'll skip to the part where Shar-Teel died in the Wyvern den and we had to walk all the way back to the Friendly Arm, getting ambushed twice. Another day of R&R and it was back to the last area of Cloakwood.

    At this point we finally came to Drasus's group, which proved to be quite the challenge. But by the power of cheese, hasty retreats, and a fair amount of luck we emerged victorious. No one died, but things came close to cascading to an end.
    image Again, I got caught up in the fight and forgot the screenshots until the end.


    Anyways, after all that Charname (and only Charname) leveled up. The time is around 40 days at this point.
    And wow, that post was longer than I thought it would be.

    Lemernis
  • MortiannaMortianna Member Posts: 1,355
    Many thanks to @Lemernis for creating this thread. I've been wanting to try something different from my comfortable routine of playing a female LE Necromancer, so I decided to randomize all of my choices, including starting spells. That being said, I laughed out loud after I did my rolls, as it looks like I won't be veering too far from my usual class and party (although it's just enough change to make it new and enjoyable):

    2564 722
    Male, Half-Elf, Diviner, Lawful-Evil, 2 re-rolls, Male 1 voice, Dagger proficiency
    Ability Scores (78): 8 / 16 / 8 / 18 / 16 / 12 (need Friends scroll!)

    Since he's a Half-Elf Diviner from Candlekeep who spent most of his time inside the library, I think I can justify his scores.

    Name (random from WotC): Zanneiros Loreweaver (I'm shortening it to just his first name, although "Loreweaver is pretty spot-on for his class)

    I really lucked out on my party rolls:
    Edwin (perfect compliment for a Diviner)
    Faldorn (I never use her, so it'll be a nice change of pace. Plus, she's basically NE anyway)
    Viconia (Nice to see you again, Vickie)
    Shar-Teel (Well, I know now who my thief will be)
    Dorn (Oh yeah. That's what I'm talkin' about)

    Starting spells: Identify, Protection from Evil, Sleep
    (I'm so glad I didn't get Infravision as my specialty school spell, especially since he's a half-elf.)

    Now, if I can just make it to Peldvale to pick up Viconia without getting whacked by some low-life bandit...

    LemernisWanderondstoltzfusJuliusBorisov
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    Zalson said:

    Default voice (I chose it; shouldn't the default be an option?)

    Yes, I think it's an oversight to Drone's original system that the Default voices weren't included. Over the weekend I'll revise the tables to fit it in. I think most people go ahead and choose whichever voice seems to match up best according to their own taste, which is fine for this challenge--the rolled voice is optional. But anyway, agreed that we should get the Default voice into the mix.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited May 2013
    Okay, I revised the Leader Board categories to feature only Classic, EEKeepered Classes Allowed, and SCS because, honestly, Roleplayed and No-Meta-gaming (or both) is just too masochistically difficult for a strict No-Reload challenge such as this that limits the player to a random generated party--in many cases including one or two NPCs that aren't available until chapters 4-5! (I doubt it would be any fun given the sorts of offbeat parties one is most likely to roll.)

    Folks are still free to journal their playthroughs in first person for the PC, of course.

    Also, for the Classic rules, with respect to using auto-pause (any mode) and heal fully upon rest... I do believe that a 'purist' version of the challenge should place as much control of the game as possible in the hands of the player as a measure of the player's skill, versus letting the game engine do things for you; and re: healing that makes you rely solely on resources acquired in the game, such as healing powers and potions.

    Therefore, "Preferred" I have changed to "Purist." The best score for a "Purist" run will trump game settings that make the game easier. And similarly, if someone sets the difficulty slider to higher than Core that will trump "Purist."

    "Purist":

    vanilla EE (no mods)
    no custom (modded) combat scripts
    best of five rolls
    Core Rules
    no auto-pausing (any mode)
    heal normally upon rest

    DexterJuliusBorisov
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    What is the farthest anyone has got (in x number of days) with SCS installed? Share your result, and we'll put the Best Thus Far on the Leader Board!

    Dexter
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    edited May 2013
    Well I had a run where charname died in Cloakwood 1, and in my current game I'm in cloakwood 3. But I think @ICN has just crushed that score...

  • Fighting_FerretFighting_Ferret Member Posts: 229
    edited May 2013
    The continued adventures of Holleyrath Huntinghawk (see I looked up my name), LN elven F/M/T.

    We returned to the FAI to identify and sell our loot. We also purchased several healing potions and antidiote poison potions.

    The party now moved into the cloakwood forest. In the first area we fought a group of tasloi and won a cloak of non-detection. We skipped the druid/hunter quest here and moved into the second level where we cleaned house on all the spiders and ettercaps here. In the third level we merely passed through. In the fourth we cleared all the wyverns out. We finally came to the mine entrance where we were beset by more assassins. Hooleyrath casted web, managing to ensnare all 4 enemies. Ajantis equipped Spider's Bane as Holleyrath and Branwen used their ranged weapons and the enemies soon fell. We then proceeded into the mines.

    The first level was merely 2 guards. The next level Holleyrath cleared some traps and then used her wand of fear on a room of guardsmen. The party entered then room, but a few guards had made their saves, including a mage. Ajantis rushed to close on the mage as the others took aim, but the mage got off a lighting bolt spell that felled Ajantis. The mage soon went down to missiles. A scroll of sleep was used to completely pacify the enemies and then they were dispatched as they slept. The party retrieved Ajantis' equipment and proceeded to the next level. On the next level the party was met by yet more guardsmen and hobgoblins. Branwen and Holleyrath and even Holeyrath's pseudo dragon familiar rushed the archers and killed them first. Then the other guards fell to the methodical marksmanship of Holleyrath. They made their way to the bottome level, killing he last guard and confronting Daevorn. Daevorn was brought low by magical arrows and a skeletal warrior. After defeating Daevorn, the party flooded the mine (we saved to slaves).

    The party then returned to the FAI (we got a random encounter in cloakwood, but it was the giant spiders, so we just ran), where they had Ajantis restored to life and everyone to health. Here the party identified their new items, sold loot, and rested for 8 hours.

    Next they returned to where they had met Ajantis outside of Baldur's Gate and killed many Ankhegs who had killed a local farmers son.

    Finally, Baldur's Gate! The party met with Scar and helped him investigate the Seven Suns trading company and a problem with missing people near the sewers. At last they met Duke Eltan who bade them investigate the Iron Throne itself. They managed to work their way to the Iron Throne complex and with sublety get to the top floor, where they met Sarevok's acolytes. The battle that followed was fierce, but the party managed to persevere, although the brave warrior priestess Branwen fell in the combat with a song to Tempus on her lips. We found evidence the Rieltev was en route to Candlekeep, so we left to raise our fallen comrade and report to Duke Eltan, who promptly sent us onto Candlekeep to follow the leaders of the Iron Throne.

    In Candlekeep we met with the senior leaders of the Iron Throne, but resisted entering into combat in the sacred halls of our former home. As we were leaving the library, we were arrested for the murder of the very people we had refused to fight! We ended up in the cells and were rescued by Tethoril, but not before finding out they had been framed by Sarevok.

    The game was saved in the first room of the catacombs under Candlekeep.

    Time Day: 16 Hour: 9

    Holleyrath: level 5/4/5
    Ajantis: level 6
    Branwen level 6

    (To be continued...)

    Post edited by Fighting_Ferret on
    JuliusBorisov
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Well, I rolled another five. This time I'm going to try all of them out, in order.

    3->2 8->1 13->1 4 - 6 3 4 - 5 20 6 4 3 * I know, ridiculous roll *

    Pick: Male
    Pick: Human
    Pick: Fighter
    Kensai

    CN
    3
    Voice4

    Coran
    Quayle
    Dorn
    Branwen
    Mystery

    After I picked Human, Fighter, I was hoping for anything but Kensai actually to dual into a Cleric or Druid. Oh well, I'll roll him now and decide whether I'm going for Thief or Mage later when (if) I get there.

    image

    Only got a 77 however the exceptional Strength is nice.

    1 6 13->12 1 - 9 10 3 - 26 23 9 18 29

    Female
    Dwarf
    Multi
    F/T

    CE
    10
    Voice3

    Viconia
    Shar-Teel
    Eldoth
    Montaron
    Yeslick

    1 3 8 5->4 - 3 10 7 - 17 2 18 7 11

    Female
    Half-elf
    Bard
    Pick: Skald

    CG
    10
    Voice:pick

    Minsc
    Alora
    Montaron
    Dynaheir
    Garrick

    2 6 12 2 - 9 1 7 - 1 27 22 26 8

    Male
    Dwarf
    Multi
    F/C

    CE
    1
    Voice:pick

    Ajantis
    Xan
    Safana
    Viconia
    Edwin

    1 6 1 5 - 9 7 7 - 6 3 11 21 26

    Female
    Dwarf
    Fighter
    Dwarven Defender

    CE
    7
    Voice:pick

    Dorn
    Mystery
    Garrick
    Rasaad
    Viconia

    Wanderon
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Whoops now I notice I picked TN instead of CN. Doesn't affect gameplay though!

  • dstoltzfusdstoltzfus Member Posts: 280
    My latest:
    Stothana Catslove
    Female
    Elf
    Swashbuckler
    Chaotic Good
    9 Re-rolls: 12, 19, 16, 15, 10, 16
    4,19,7,25,26
    4 - Branwen
    19 - Neera 
    7 - Dynaheir
    25 - Tiax
    26 - Viconia

    It's going really well so far. RP'ing an attractive, happy-go-lucky, adrenaline-junky. with charm and sticky hands has been very fun. Using the potion of speed that I picked up from Imoen, I solo'ed the Ogre and a dire wolf in the beginning. After I picked up Neera (It used to be Monteron that I always rolled, now it's Neera...ugh [I'm a Neera hater]), I leveled (always good to get that early level). I then picked up Tiax, and thought, fuck it, SCS or no, I'll try to take out Silke. Got an interrupt with a wand of magic missles, released Tiax's ghast who then paralyzes Silke multiple times and my party slaughters her (I did waste a command, but oh well). I then pressed my luck and went after Karlat. The potion of defense gave me -6 AC and I was level 2 (giving me 13 hp), so I was a little confident. I managed to not get one-shot, and took him down (unfortunately, I couldn't use the ghast and I couldn't lead Karlat outside).

    I'm now almost level 3 and Tiax is almost level 3 thief (Neera started with practically no xp, which is disappointing since I did level right before she talked to me). I'll rest, get gear and head to Naskel next.

    I've never played a swashbuckler because I love backstab, but the +AC and hit has some good potential...especially if I can get super AC with potions of defense. I can't wait to get Varscona and hopefully more pips so I can put 3 in dual-wield.

    music for the character: Mozart violin concertos! :D

    DexterWanderonJuliusBorisov
  • dstoltzfusdstoltzfus Member Posts: 280
    edited May 2013
    @Dexter, how did you fair in the bandit camp with SCS? What tactics did you use in Tazok's tent?
    @Mortianna, that sounds like an awesome party/character.

    Mortianna
  • ZalsonZalson Member Posts: 103

    @Fighting_Ferret, congratulations!

    Indeed! A new record!

    dstoltzfusFighting_Ferret
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
  • ICNICN Member Posts: 61
    Welp, that's it for my run. While clearing out the mines I ran into a mage I didn't remember, and one casting of web and some minute meteorites later my main character died. I'll take a break and try again next week. In the meantime though, congratulations @Fighting_Ferret!

    DexterFighting_FerretdstoltzfusWanderon
  • DexterDexter Member Posts: 253
    edited May 2013
    @dstoltzfus I don't do tazok's tent, too risky. I just go to bandit camp on my own and pick a spot for the fight that give me tactical advantage. Then my tank just walk ahead say hello and go back to the party. Bandits sound the alarm and then the whole camp comes after you (including the ones inside tazok's tent), but I'm ready and waiting: web, entangle, grease, hold, glitterdust, blind, oils of burning, necklace of missiles. My archers finish anything still standing.
    Just be careful with your casters, if they ever get on fire line all bandits will change target and shot them death. I place my tank a little ahead of casters so that he absorbs the ranged fire.
    Also, don't let the mage do nothing if you can help it, I lost a promising party once after he cast horror. Don't bother with silence, he will cast vocalize right away.

    Congrats @Fighting_Ferret, new record!
    @ICN, yeah those SCS mages are so dangerous!

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    @ICN How far did you get and in how many days? Best I can see, that effort now belongs at the top of the SCS version of the challenge on the Leader Board.

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    edited May 2013
    Update on mr. Wolfswift (Human Kensai).

    Finished the Mines and Tranzig along with some extra questing and Basilisk hunting. Currently at Kensai 5 (inactive) -> Mage 4. I told myself "this time dual early at 3-4" but no, had to get greedy. Currently in big trouble with a Vampiric Wolf at Beregost Temple map:

    image

    I ran after Dorn died, but the bloody thing followed me inside the temple. I'm hoping I can kill it now with just the two of us.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    @Fighting_Ferret Congrats, that's an awesome run. Wanderon and I recall about a dozen years ago a no reload challenge that Wanderon hosted on his forum, and the winner completed the game in 14 days. So it can be done. Good show! You're at the top of the leader board.

    Fighting_FerretdstoltzfusJuliusBorisov
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,280
    edited May 2013
    @FinneousPJ For this challenge I've now taken to traversing the Song of the Morning Map as close to the side and bottom edges as possible to avoid those blasted vampiric wolves.

    Fighting_Ferret
  • Fighting_FerretFighting_Ferret Member Posts: 229
    edited May 2013
    @FinneousPJ I try to avoid the wolf like enemies as long as possible until I am a decent level (3+) as their speed will not allow a retreat. And how many no reloads have you seen... [character name] died by wolf.

    JuliusBorisov
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