127 is the normal cap for items/spells coded to ADD resistance. 150 is the engine cap and you need the spell/item to SET at 150 or any higher than 127. It's the same for all the IE games, still not sure about IWD2 as I never played it.
No, if you set anything higher than 127 with EEK, for example, it wraps around to a negative number.
That's an EEKeeper thing, EEKeeper sets the bytes to the amount you are telling it to write, it does not add an extra effect for more than 127. If you want 127+ resistance, grab an editor and open a CRE file, add effect "Whatever damage Resistance" go to the field that says "increment" and select the "Set" value. Also, EEKeeper has *lots* of things to prevent you from ruining the CRE/CHR file, eg by setting the resistances to a value higher than 127, which won't work, because the CRE/CHR's field for that always is used as Increment and not Set.
Not sure what you mean, just open the game and check by yourself, its 100 not 127 for physical damage, i dont see why they couldn't have implemented something different for physical damage.
Seems like that is an EE change, but in vanilla BG2 it's how I am saying.
I was reading a thread about power gaming and using EE keeper (one another board) Someone suggested a Dwarven Defender/Wizard dual class. Thoughts on this?
I was reading a thread about power gaming and using EE keeper (one another board) Someone suggested a Dwarven Defender/Wizard dual class. Thoughts on this?
Doesn't make any sense for me.
Aside from the fact that constantly use EEK to keep it a dualclass instead of multiclass would be megaboring, with a F/M you should have enough spells to be untouchable.
Plus, how can you run after enemies while you're under Defensive Stance?
I'd definetely prefer more damage output rather than physical res. Just my opinion.
I think one Cleric is enough in a party for the buffing, so if there is a C/R in the team, I think your Berserker => Mage (I guess dual at 9 in a full party) will be indeed superior to my F/M/C, plus the Berserker is very strong alone, not like the Kensai which can be hard to carry through BG1. Good idea !
But I will stay with a Blackguard, I think Poison Weapon is easely in my top 3 of most absurdly strong ability in the entire game and they can still cast priest spells like Armor of Faith (reaching 85% physical damage reduction with HLA and DoE) / DUHM. And the F/M/T could use Carsomyr with UAI.
It should be pretty good ! I'll probably try this one in Black Pits.
I was wondering man, why do you choose the C/R ? is it for the insects only ? wouldnt it be better to have a fighter/cleric, i think they are much stronger in melee no ? And the Skald ? ok their bonus is great but for instance wouldnt be a pure berseker to be more effective overall ? I am just sharing my thoughts here, not pointing something wrong in your team or whatever cause i think its a pretty solid one, but in the name of the Gods of Effectiveness and Damage Dealing i was wondering !
And i have one question about the insects, i didnt play a druid for years so i dont remember how much it is countered by magic resistance, i mean, do the stronger foes are affected easily by it or is it the opposite way and often get resisted ? Just like backstab is less and less effective through the saga ?
I was wondering man, why do you choose the C/R ? is it for the insects only ? wouldnt it be better to have a fighter/cleric, i think they are much stronger in melee no ?
And i have one question about the insects, i didnt play a druid for years so i dont remember how much it is countered by magic resistance, i mean, do the stronger foes are affected easily by it or is it the opposite way and often get resisted ? Just like backstab is less and less effective through the saga ?
I was wondering man, why do you choose the C/R ? is it for the insects only ? wouldnt it be better to have a fighter/cleric, i think they are much stronger in melee no ?
And i have one question about the insects, i didnt play a druid for years so i dont remember how much it is countered by magic resistance, i mean, do the stronger foes are affected easily by it or is it the opposite way and often get resisted ? Just like backstab is less and less effective through the saga ?
Yes, it is affected by MR.
Thank you, yea i knew about the ironskin, woodlands beings are cool too even though i don't summon things that much. The C/R is much better than what i remembered.
I know its affected by MR but i wanted to know from experience ingame if it was still effective at high levels, its quite slow and the cast time is long on the lesser version.
Well, the C/R is an improved F/C, because a Fighter multiclass cannot go beyond 2 pips in any weapons, much like a Ranger. So the C/R is a F/C with 2 free pips in dual wielding and access to the druids spells like Ironskin and the insect spells like you said, which I find very strong. The only downside is the slightly slower xp progression.
The Skald is good for the song and for casting some arcane spells. In a full party the song is very very beneficial.
For the first seconds when looking at @CrevsDaak 's post at the start of this page I've thought: "Ohhh, Cernd? In a powergaming party? Interesting, most interesting..."
A few seconds later: "Wat, does he have all 18-s?"
For the first seconds when looking at @CrevsDaak 's post at the start of this page I've thought: "Ohhh, Cernd? In a powergaming party? Interesting, most interesting..."
A few seconds later: "Wat, does he have all 18-s?"
It's so chaotic!
Cernd is overpowered in his druid's grove, he's actually protected by his mighty high level spell "Repulse All Players" wich is working pretty well !
After some extensive testing and playing i became really fan of the wizard slayer/thief, the best probably being the WS25/Thief27. It is the most efficient/useful toon i ever played.
- 112% Magical Resistance - Armor - 14 AC - 14 THACO - Grandmastery - 7/2 APR - Carsomyr, every hit dispells magic and adds 10% casting failure, DMG 24-35. - True sight running at all times with Detect Illusion and the scout thief's script (note that you dont have to loose one turn casting it) - 6 Fighter HLA - UAI & a Few traps
i use a full plate armor with him and don't even bother trying to hide cause i cant backstab with a 2 handed sword anyway, you could do some backstab by switching weapon and using the white dragon chainmail instead of a full plate mail to be able to hide. Saving Throws suck in this setup but who cares since you have over 100% MR.
Another toon that is really fun and efficient (not the greatest but still pretty good) is the Shadowdancer13-15/Fighter, with some invisibilty potions they are the most annoying buggers your ennemies will ever face (hide in shadows and potions are on different cool downs), always interrupting casting by going invisible every 3 seconds, incredible backstabs rate even tho they are lower than regular thieves. You end up with tons of fighter HLAS, Doing like 7 or 8 GWW in a fight, all starting by a backstab is just awesome.
After some extensive testing and playing i became really fan of the wizard slayer/thief, the best probably being the WS25/Thief27. It is the most efficient/useful toon i ever played.
The only change to this I might try would be wizard slayer/assassin, but that requires extra manipulation via an editor, presuming it is possible at all. Was this dual class or edited multiclass?
After some extensive testing and playing i became really fan of the wizard slayer/thief, the best probably being the WS25/Thief27. It is the most efficient/useful toon i ever played.
The only change to this I might try would be wizard slayer/assassin, but that requires extra manipulation via an editor, presuming it is possible at all. Was this dual class or edited multiclass?
Its a dual-class 25/27, legit, every setup i posted is legit, you can't have 2 kits so your only choice is thief or mage, but i wouldnt go for mage, i dont see the point, the berseker/mage is ten times better in this regard. If you dont want to go through the pain of 25/27 you cant still make a WS15/Thief, they can still get 100% MR but you would miss the fighter HLA. GWW with Carsomyr is just insane in the hands of a wizard slayer, GWW is 10 hits in one round if none missed, meaning 100% casting failure and 10 dispells, and with -14 THACO its not likely he's going to miss a lot, Altough the casting failure doesn't help when it comes to trigger contingencies (most mobs have i guess).
The best thing to do if you want to maximize the potential of this character is probably to go for 5 pips in the following proficiencies. (wich is not possible unless you wait lvl 26 thief to level up, implying some heavy babysitting) - 2 handed weapons - Crossbow - Scimitar - 2 pips in single weapon style - 2 pips in 2 handed weapons style
You use the scimitar for backstabbing and for fighting Vampires (negative plane protection, 100% MR doesnt grant immunity from level drain) and Carsomyr for everything else.
You can easily edit a WS/Assassin with EEKeeper as soon as you dual-class. Also, it will progress correctly, without any further use of EEK. (Thieving points aside)
Anyway, I never saw the point of a Wizard Slayer/Thief... WS advantages are passive Magic Res and casting failure on successful hit.
You can reach 90% MR with UAI already: Carsomyr, Ring of Gaxx, Seldarine/Kaligun's Amulet, Human Skin Armor.
And what's the sense of a magic casting failure while using a Carsomyr? If you manage to hit your target once, even if he has Stoneskin/Mirror Image, the next attacks will most probably deal damage. Honestly, it will be long time dead before reaching a 100% magic casting failure. The few exceptions to this are Demiliches and some bosses.
Since we're talking about powergaming, any other Fighter kit would be stronger in a */Thief dualclass.
You can easily edit a WS/Assassin with EEKeeper as soon as you dual-class. Also, it will progress correctly, without any further use of EEK. (Thieving points aside)
Anyway, I never saw the point of a Wizard Slayer/Thief... WS advantages are passive Magic Res and casting failure on successful hit.
You can reach 90% MR with UAI already: Carsomyr, Ring of Gaxx, Seldarine/Kaligun's Amulet, Human Skin Armor.
And what's the sense of a magic casting failure while using a Carsomyr? If you manage to hit your target once, even if he has Stoneskin/Mirror Image, the next attacks will most probably deal damage. Honestly, it will be long time dead before reaching a 100% magic casting failure. The few exceptions to this are Demiliches and some bosses.
Since we're talking about powergaming, any other Fighter kit would be stronger in a */Thief dualclass.
Its true, the only thing i would disagree with is that there's actually a difference ingame between 90% MR and 100%, i tested it and needless to say you are much more confident when having 100 rather than 90. The thing is it gives you the tactical option to kill melee foes before mages because they just waste their spells on you. Also the advantage of being thief is to wield carsomyr and magical items wich you can't do if you were to be a pure wizard slayer or a wizard slayer/mage. This give you the opportunity to reach -14 AC, 100% MR and - 14 THACO, i dont know about you but i don't have any other character with such numbers while wielding a two handed sword, you can go up to something like -22 if you are willing to drop some damage and use a shield but - 14 AC is good enough, for instance Mind Flayers will have a very hard time with you, spells wont work and they will miss you while trying to suck your brain, same goes for their friends (dont remember their name). I tried to kill 3 different dragons yesterday, they all died in a matter of seconds, nothing to brag about but i am just trying to say they are very effective in my opinion.
Also the point about this character is that you do not have to buff up to be effective, you are effective at all times, ready to fight, not afraid of being dispelled.
In the end i agree with you when it comes to power gaming the berseker/mage for instance is probably better, but not by much really, i find them quite useful in team as spells meat shield and mage killer and its nice to have a change, playing fighter/mage is cool but i think we all did it already !
And the most important thing is that i am having fun with him, being unkillable like you can be with a F/M running PFMW forces you to move around and be more tactical and tricky wich i find much more fun than standing there chain casting PFMW and bashing mobs. But thats not the point of powergaming
@xav my point was that Berserker or Kensai/Thief would be better than WS/Thief
From my point of view i put the WST above the kensai/thief because of the 100% MR even tho they dont deal as much damage (not that far)
To sum it up, Berserkers are overpowered ! they should switch barbarians rage an berserker state to begin with, that would be much more balanced in my opinion ! Berserkers have it all as it is !
High level dual classes are only viable in solo games, and even there it's questionable whether they are overall better than a "reasonable" level dual class. Playing solo is, of course, in itself non-optimal since enemy HP don't scale with party size. The ideal ratio of xp/party size depends on the individual setup, but is likely somewhere between 3 and 5 for most people.
High level dual classes are only viable in solo games, and even there it's questionable whether they are overall better than a "reasonable" level dual class. Playing solo is, of course, in itself non-optimal since enemy HP don't scale with party size. The ideal ratio of xp/party size depends on the individual setup, but is likely somewhere between 3 and 5 for most people.
Optimal in what way ? If you speak about the efficiency of the party then I think you're wrong.
To my mind, the game is easier with 2 characters, then with 1, then with 3, then with 4, then 5 and then 6.
The more characters you have in your party, the more difficult the game is because the XP is split between all characters.
If that's not what you were refering to then I'm sorry, I didn't get your point.
Optimal in what way ? If you speak about the efficiency of the party then I think you're wrong.
To my mind, the game is easier with 2 characters, then with 1, then with 3, then with 4, then 5 and then 6.
The more characters you have in your party, the more difficult the game is because the XP is split between all characters.
If that's not what you were refering to then I'm sorry, I didn't get your point.
It's a balance between XP and output. The reason XP isn't as impactful as you may think is that scaling tapers off quickly past a certain point. The difference between lvl 10 and lvl 20 is huge, but the difference between lvl 20 and 30 much less so, and even less still for 30 vs. 40. That in turn means that XP division isn't actually that severe in the long run.
On the other hand, additional characters add SUBSTANTIAL amounts of additional damage - and because enemy HP is always the same whether you play solo or with a full party, that increases the value of additional party members by quite a lot.
Those two factors, party dmg and xp division, are not in direct proportion. They are in complex relation to one another, and the exact values depend on many variables involved that can vary significantly depending on individual setups (mod selection, difficulty setting, etc.). However, it should be very rare for 1 or 2 character parties to be the optimal choice, or full 6 for that matter. 99% of cases are likely to fall between the 3 and 5 member setups I mentioned.
Talking about objective efficiency here, of course, not "I like class X better" - personal preference isn't part of this discussion, though it is of course an important factor people need to figure out for themselves. Still, efficiency measurement also depends on individual setups as they change various factors involved (e.g. SCS changes things quite a bit).
Comments
Also, EEKeeper has *lots* of things to prevent you from ruining the CRE/CHR file, eg by setting the resistances to a value higher than 127, which won't work, because the CRE/CHR's field for that always is used as Increment and not Set. Seems like that is an EE change, but in vanilla BG2 it's how I am saying.
(Joking)
Aside from the fact that constantly use EEK to keep it a dualclass instead of multiclass would be megaboring,
with a F/M you should have enough spells to be untouchable.
Plus, how can you run after enemies while you're under Defensive Stance?
I'd definetely prefer more damage output rather than physical res. Just my opinion.
And the Skald ? ok their bonus is great but for instance wouldnt be a pure berseker to be more effective overall ?
I am just sharing my thoughts here, not pointing something wrong in your team or whatever cause i think its a pretty solid one, but in the name of the Gods of Effectiveness and Damage Dealing i was wondering !
And i have one question about the insects, i didnt play a druid for years so i dont remember how much it is countered by magic resistance, i mean, do the stronger foes are affected easily by it or is it the opposite way and often get resisted ? Just like backstab is less and less effective through the saga ?
I know its affected by MR but i wanted to know from experience ingame if it was still effective at high levels, its quite slow and the cast time is long on the lesser version.
The Skald is good for the song and for casting some arcane spells. In a full party the song is very very beneficial.
Berserker 13 --> Cleric
Swashbuckler 10 --> Fighter
Wizard slayer 11 --> Thief
Maybe you can add mage/cleric for early magic support and as nanny during dualing phases
A few seconds later: "Wat, does he have all 18-s?"
It's so chaotic!
- 112% Magical Resistance
- Armor - 14 AC
- 14 THACO
- Grandmastery
- 7/2 APR
- Carsomyr, every hit dispells magic and adds 10% casting failure, DMG 24-35.
- True sight running at all times with Detect Illusion and the scout thief's script (note that you dont have to loose one turn casting it)
- 6 Fighter HLA
- UAI & a Few traps
i use a full plate armor with him and don't even bother trying to hide cause i cant backstab with a 2 handed sword anyway, you could do some backstab by switching weapon and using the white dragon chainmail instead of a full plate mail to be able to hide.
Saving Throws suck in this setup but who cares since you have over 100% MR.
Another toon that is really fun and efficient (not the greatest but still pretty good) is the Shadowdancer13-15/Fighter, with some invisibilty potions they are the most annoying buggers your ennemies will ever face (hide in shadows and potions are on different cool downs), always interrupting casting by going invisible every 3 seconds, incredible backstabs rate even tho they are lower than regular thieves.
You end up with tons of fighter HLAS, Doing like 7 or 8 GWW in a fight, all starting by a backstab is just awesome.
If you dont want to go through the pain of 25/27 you cant still make a WS15/Thief, they can still get 100% MR but you would miss the fighter HLA. GWW with Carsomyr is just insane in the hands of a wizard slayer, GWW is 10 hits in one round if none missed, meaning 100% casting failure and 10 dispells, and with -14 THACO its not likely he's going to miss a lot, Altough the casting failure doesn't help when it comes to trigger contingencies (most mobs have i guess).
The best thing to do if you want to maximize the potential of this character is probably to go for 5 pips in the following proficiencies. (wich is not possible unless you wait lvl 26 thief to level up, implying some heavy babysitting)
- 2 handed weapons
- Crossbow
- Scimitar
- 2 pips in single weapon style
- 2 pips in 2 handed weapons style
You use the scimitar for backstabbing and for fighting Vampires (negative plane protection, 100% MR doesnt grant immunity from level drain) and Carsomyr for everything else.
Also, it will progress correctly, without any further use of EEK.
(Thieving points aside)
Anyway, I never saw the point of a Wizard Slayer/Thief...
WS advantages are passive Magic Res and casting failure on successful hit.
You can reach 90% MR with UAI already: Carsomyr, Ring of Gaxx, Seldarine/Kaligun's Amulet, Human Skin Armor.
And what's the sense of a magic casting failure while using a Carsomyr?
If you manage to hit your target once, even if he has Stoneskin/Mirror Image, the next attacks will most probably deal damage.
Honestly, it will be long time dead before reaching a 100% magic casting failure.
The few exceptions to this are Demiliches and some bosses.
Since we're talking about powergaming, any other Fighter kit would be stronger in a */Thief dualclass.
The thing is it gives you the tactical option to kill melee foes before mages because they just waste their spells on you.
Also the advantage of being thief is to wield carsomyr and magical items wich you can't do if you were to be a pure wizard slayer or a wizard slayer/mage. This give you the opportunity to reach -14 AC, 100% MR and - 14 THACO, i dont know about you but i don't have any other character with such numbers while wielding a two handed sword, you can go up to something like -22 if you are willing to drop some damage and use a shield but - 14 AC is good enough, for instance Mind Flayers will have a very hard time with you, spells wont work and they will miss you while trying to suck your brain, same goes for their friends (dont remember their name).
I tried to kill 3 different dragons yesterday, they all died in a matter of seconds, nothing to brag about but i am just trying to say they are very effective in my opinion.
Also the point about this character is that you do not have to buff up to be effective, you are effective at all times, ready to fight, not afraid of being dispelled.
In the end i agree with you when it comes to power gaming the berseker/mage for instance is probably better, but not by much really, i find them quite useful in team as spells meat shield and mage killer and its nice to have a change, playing fighter/mage is cool but i think we all did it already !
And the most important thing is that i am having fun with him, being unkillable like you can be with a F/M running PFMW forces you to move around and be more tactical and tricky wich i find much more fun than standing there chain casting PFMW and bashing mobs. But thats not the point of powergaming
To sum it up, Berserkers are overpowered ! they should switch barbarians rage an berserker state to begin with, that would be much more balanced in my opinion ! Berserkers have it all as it is !
To my mind, the game is easier with 2 characters, then with 1, then with 3, then with 4, then 5 and then 6.
The more characters you have in your party, the more difficult the game is because the XP is split between all characters.
If that's not what you were refering to then I'm sorry, I didn't get your point.
On the other hand, additional characters add SUBSTANTIAL amounts of additional damage - and because enemy HP is always the same whether you play solo or with a full party, that increases the value of additional party members by quite a lot.
Those two factors, party dmg and xp division, are not in direct proportion. They are in complex relation to one another, and the exact values depend on many variables involved that can vary significantly depending on individual setups (mod selection, difficulty setting, etc.). However, it should be very rare for 1 or 2 character parties to be the optimal choice, or full 6 for that matter. 99% of cases are likely to fall between the 3 and 5 member setups I mentioned.
Talking about objective efficiency here, of course, not "I like class X better" - personal preference isn't part of this discussion, though it is of course an important factor people need to figure out for themselves. Still, efficiency measurement also depends on individual setups as they change various factors involved (e.g. SCS changes things quite a bit).