Seriously guys, how can you get so annoyed about the plan for an Open Beta? The development team have re-written the Render engine to support new Graphics Cards that alone would need a substantial amount of testing to confirm it was functional.
So some people's response is 'you are unprofessional and your QA department isn't doing it's job'. Well we do not know what issues have been encountered during the behind closed doors testing that has been carried out already. The idea of getting us the community to test this patch is clearly the best choice: -
1.) It gets the patch out to us as we all want. 2.) It gets better coverage of testing than any internal QA department could do without keeping the patch back for an even longer time.
Logistically it is a win for everyone. Some people just want to be-moan everything.
1) No patch? Some people bitch and moan about there not being a patch. This opinion goes into rants about how Overhaul is: a) Awful b) Can't do anything right c) Tutu is better d) We should go to GoG.com or whatnot (take your pick, multiple answers are acceptable)
2) No news about patch? Some (and there may be overlap with 1) above) bitch and moan about: a) A lack of news b) Overhaul tells us nothing
3) News about patch a) Overhaul should be faster b) No reason we can't have it now c) Don't buy BG2:EE because (many reasons)
Rant aside, I think this is why we don't get promises or news. My take is it isn't worth the headache to try and put out all of the verbal shiitake-mushroom storms that come out of such efforts. I'll go on record saying I want the patch yesterday, but that I want it to work properly. Which wins out?
Regardless of opinions about news/timing/whatnot, I'm impressed that Overhaul is learning from previous release processes and trying new ways to make it work. Seriously, it's a benefit of having a small team and organization - they can adjust as circumstances change (or as plans change). I think that, in the long run, it will lead to a better product.
While I can understand some of the frustration that's present here (even if I don't approve of how it's ... voiced at times), I for one am just happy that there'll be a new patch after all. I was worried for a moment that this wouldn't be the case.
I'll gladly wait a bit longer now, safe with the knowledge that the patch IS coming. Oh and I like the idea of an open beta too, I might add.
Honestly, I've been reasonably well impressed with Beamdog.
Yes, the initial product was pushed out the door a bit quickly and there were some serious disappointments (re: contractual stuff).
However, I must say, Beamdog has been pretty consistently updating and fixing the client, as well as creating new attack plans (such as this open beta for the new patch). So, while we were off to a rough start (which is a fair complaint), the company appears to be evolving in a way that indicates:
1. They are reasonably responsive to issues. 2. They have a much better understanding of what they need to do.
Generally speaking, this seems to me to indicate that BG2:EE is going to be a better product than BG:EE. Still plenty of room for me to be wrong, of course, but the trend seems to be indicating that they are definitely improving at a fairly significant rate.
I also think an open beta is a good idea. We've got an active player base chomping at the bit to play the patch and more than used to fixing the game by now (we've been doing it since 1998, after all). It seems to me that getting the community (more) involved is a very smart decision.
well, everything well and all but... when will the new patch be released? An term commitment please? The Bankrupcty apparently is up, the works are normal already and there's no reason to not set a date of release for the patch.
By the way, an insight on BG2:EE development would be great, % complete, what's already made, teaser videos, biography of the new BG2:EE character... well beamdog, tease us!
well, everything well and all but... when will the new patch be released? An term commitment please? The Bankrupcty apparently is up, the works are normal already and there's no reason to not set a date of release for the patch.
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. The faq-2 link is particularly useful.
From the various posts I read, I guess I'm similar to many, every day I log on go straight to News and then read this patch status thread (then I might have a sneak peak at the Mac threads). I don't generally look at the "General Discussion".
So to your point: "The resources are there, you just kind of have to know where to look" and to avoid the "boom goes the dynamite" (very funny), could I suggest a "read only" blog under News with "Latest Status" (Patch or otherwise). So the key information is in one place, everyone knows where to look and all (well most) speculation can be stopped ?
I know these things take time but a quick update has to be easier than dealing with the multitude of passionate players who are all saying the same thing but in a variety of different ways ?
Every time I walk in this forum it's amazes me more and more. OPEN BETA TEST half a year later... good job lol
I can't believe that too... They said they never stopped working on patch and what? Open beta test... of patch - lol. Seriously guys. It's really bad.
They do beta tests of patches in Starcraft HOTS..I don't see the problem. This is a good thing; we get to play and test the new patch. Happiness! Go play another game for a while if you not interested in the beta.., and before you know it, it'll be patch time (And the patch will be better than it would have been as there will be many more testers...)
Why are people whining about testing the patch? Honestly If you don't understand why testing is required or the processes involved in a development and release cycle fine. However complaining because things need testing is like trying to drive a car with no accelerator. Its going to get you nowhere and probably cause people to look at you weirdly as they pass!
If this post won't make at least some of the haters STFU, and lend a hand, then they don't deserve to get this patch. All this s***-talking is pathetic. People, be a little gratefull, Beamdog has pretty much rewritten an huge part of the game to make it work for people who want to play it on a "not-toaster-class" PC.
Either help or be calm and wait.
Or drop the game, and let those who appreciate their hard work play in peace. Thank you.
You guys might be surprised at how much work actually goes into these things. I can tell you those working on the patch have gone far above and beyond the call of duty to make it the best it can be, despite an almost ridiculous variety of hurdles and issues.
I know it's hard to see from the outside, but we are nuts about these games. We'd rather spend the time to get it right and try different approaches than release something we aren't proud of.
In terms of the beta: This new approach is a direct response to many of the issues that have been brought up in the past, and yes, we understand that there will always be people disappointed or confused with our decision, but we hope that in time they'll come around. We wouldn't be doing it if we didn't think it was the best approach for the game.
Finally, here's one very, very simple reason for the beta: We don't have your hardware. Sure, we have a wide variety of devices we test on, but in the scheme of things, that's still a very small percentage of the enormous amount out there. If you're willing to lend us a hand -- and if you'd rather not, that's cool too, we totally understand -- we want to make sure Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition and BG2:EE, these awesome games we love, are playable by the maximum amount of people possible.
I totally support an open beta and to continue on Kaeloree's hardware point (for those who think every PC is the same) I'll try to make a quick view of what difference a PC can have with another (and that each software change can screw things up).
1- Windows OS - WinXP(Sp2, Sp3), Vista (sp1, sp2), 7 (vanilla, sp1), 8 (and all the little tweaks within all of them!)
*4- Chipsets... You know how many compagnies make motherboards? Abit, Asus, Gigabyte, to name but a very few!
To have all combinations, they'd need over 2000 PC's (hell, I think 5000 wouldn't even be enough!) for sure (And I'm sure they don't have that at their work place) to test each and every settings. So, going on an open Beta, asking the community's help (that I'm sure has a wider range of hardware and software difference) is a good idea for sure!
Look. To everyone complaining about the "Open Beta" patch.
Have you EVER done QA for a complex program? Ever?
I don't care how good your QA team is. They are going to miss shit. They simply cannot compete with hundreds upon thousands of gamers for raw testing potential. They WILL miss stuff. Hell, in terms of CPU components (various versions of windows, emulators of windows, chipsets, etc) they can't test everything.
This Open Beta? It is a GOOD THING, especially for a company with limited manpower like (I presume) Beamdog. It means that they are at least interested in appearing like they want to get the patch right. It means they want to get it out and get as many bugs fixed as possible, as quickly as possible, without destroying anyone's game. It also means they have determined they need the help (as generally evidenced by the large swathe of post release bugs).
I get a lot of you want to hate on Beamdog and blame them for their mistakes. Fine. You are allowed to. You have legit complaints. But stop bitching about something that represents real, honest to God progress.
So I would plead with anyone that has the spare time and patience to please try the open beta! Your feedback will likely have a much greater impact now than after the final release, and everyone will benefit from this.
Firstly. Congratulations on bringing the franchise back from the brink. I for one am very glad, and very excited to see development remain in the hands of Overhaul Games.
Secondly. I am pleased to see open beta plans. It can only improve the official release.
There's a company out there who took my favorite game of all time (even though it's been out for over a decade), brought out a new and improved version and on top of that, continues to make an honest effort to improve upon it, in spite of bureaucracy, legal wranglings, more lucrative paths to take and last but not least, the constant whining of manchildren.
And I get it for a measly 20 bucks.
That's all I have to say other than that I can't wait to download the beta.
SO yeah we love BG and we also love BGEE. But it would be fair to say we can't really LOVE Beamdog.
*Opinions expressed in this post may not accurately reflect the sentiments of any community of social hominids currently known to anthropological science.
I will never be able to understand why people who say they like a decade-old game seem to want to do nothing but hang out in the forums dedicated to that game's community and trash talk the hard work that's gone into resurrecting it.
Even if I were motivated to do so, I don't think I could possibly ever reach the level of enlightenment which would allow me to comprehend the sense of entitlement that each one of these trolling screed-posts seems to be dripping with: the whining and the complaining and the insulting tone, like something that might come out of one of the bad kids from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory right before something ironic happens to them.
This is something that one would think would have gone away once it was announced that Beamdog could continue its work. But no! It hasn't. I pop back onto the forums after a couple weeks of not obsessively checking in, and I find that the haters are still here. It just baffles me. I'd say these people need a hobby, and I'd recommend video games, but that just seems like it would be playing into an already destructive cycle.
I'm just happy you guys are able to keep doin' the Lord's work, here. So keep on keepin' on.
I will never be able to understand why people who say they like a decade-old game seem to want to do nothing but hang out in the forums dedicated to that game's community and trash talk the hard work that's gone into resurrecting it.
Ah, but you forget: this is the internet, where a vocal minority of feebleminded dolts will invariably attempt to make life miserable for everyone else. It's a bit like politics, really. There is nothing for it but to ignore those we can, and to heap scorn onto the rest in plentiful scoops.
At any rate, don't try to find logic or reason in it. I know your frustration, I've never been able to figure out what moves people to act in such a manner either. Just chalk it up to poor impulse control and a misplaced sense of entitlement I guess. But every cloud has a silver lining (depending on prevailing celestial alignment), it does vindicate my deep-seated cynicism. So that's nice.
I would say that everyone is entitled to feel however they feel, and to express themselves in a public forum at their discretion.
This being the internet, there is also plenty of room for people changing their minds, and I wouldn't want to sour someone's new position (nor their old one, for that matter) by antagonizing their (sometimes actually somewhat warranted) complaints.
This summer hasn't been great for transparency; I'll be the first to admit that, and since I'm the one who curates the FAQ, the blame for that pretty much falls on my shoulders. A big part of that is because there wasn't much to say during the "break", but I also know how frustrating it can be to be on the outside with no information.
I had a much longer post talking about my own experiences as an Internetian (pronounced ihn-tehr-NEE-shuhn), but I think I'll just leave it at this:
The forum has rules. Don't flame. Don't troll. Don't spam. Be respectful of others.
As long as you're following those rules, I'm kind of okay with the casual criticisms. Sometimes we do screw up, and I wouldn't want people to just ignore that. We're rather fortunate in that this is considered "uncalled for":
SO yeah we love BG and we also love BGEE. But it would be fair to say we can't really LOVE Beamdog.
If that's what people consider rude behavior, then I think we're probably doing okay.
Comments
So some people's response is 'you are unprofessional and your QA department isn't doing it's job'. Well we do not know what issues have been encountered during the behind closed doors testing that has been carried out already. The idea of getting us the community to test this patch is clearly the best choice: -
1.) It gets the patch out to us as we all want.
2.) It gets better coverage of testing than any internal QA department could do without keeping the patch back for an even longer time.
Logistically it is a win for everyone. Some people just want to be-moan everything.
1) No patch? Some people bitch and moan about there not being a patch. This opinion goes into rants about how Overhaul is:
a) Awful
b) Can't do anything right
c) Tutu is better
d) We should go to GoG.com or whatnot (take your pick, multiple answers are acceptable)
2) No news about patch? Some (and there may be overlap with 1) above) bitch and moan about:
a) A lack of news
b) Overhaul tells us nothing
3) News about patch
a) Overhaul should be faster
b) No reason we can't have it now
c) Don't buy BG2:EE because (many reasons)
Rant aside, I think this is why we don't get promises or news. My take is it isn't worth the headache to try and put out all of the verbal shiitake-mushroom storms that come out of such efforts. I'll go on record saying I want the patch yesterday, but that I want it to work properly. Which wins out?
Regardless of opinions about news/timing/whatnot, I'm impressed that Overhaul is learning from previous release processes and trying new ways to make it work. Seriously, it's a benefit of having a small team and organization - they can adjust as circumstances change (or as plans change). I think that, in the long run, it will lead to a better product.
I'll gladly wait a bit longer now, safe with the knowledge that the patch IS coming. Oh and I like the idea of an open beta too, I might add.
Yes, the initial product was pushed out the door a bit quickly and there were some serious disappointments (re: contractual stuff).
However, I must say, Beamdog has been pretty consistently updating and fixing the client, as well as creating new attack plans (such as this open beta for the new patch). So, while we were off to a rough start (which is a fair complaint), the company appears to be evolving in a way that indicates:
1. They are reasonably responsive to issues.
2. They have a much better understanding of what they need to do.
Generally speaking, this seems to me to indicate that BG2:EE is going to be a better product than BG:EE. Still plenty of room for me to be wrong, of course, but the trend seems to be indicating that they are definitely improving at a fairly significant rate.
I also think an open beta is a good idea. We've got an active player base chomping at the bit to play the patch and more than used to fixing the game by now (we've been doing it since 1998, after all). It seems to me that getting the community (more) involved is a very smart decision.
By the way, an insight on BG2:EE development would be great, % complete, what's already made, teaser videos, biography of the new BG2:EE character... well beamdog, tease us!
OPEN BETA TEST half a year later... good job lol
Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. The faq-2 link is particularly useful.
From the various posts I read, I guess I'm similar to many, every day I log on go straight to News and then read this patch status thread (then I might have a sneak peak at the Mac threads). I don't generally look at the "General Discussion".
So to your point: "The resources are there, you just kind of have to know where to look" and to avoid the "boom goes the dynamite" (very funny), could I suggest a "read only" blog under News with "Latest Status" (Patch or otherwise). So the key information is in one place, everyone knows where to look and all (well most) speculation can be stopped ?
I know these things take time but a quick update has to be easier than dealing with the multitude of passionate players who are all saying the same thing but in a variety of different ways ?
Either help or be calm and wait.
Or drop the game, and let those who appreciate their hard work play in peace. Thank you.
I know it's hard to see from the outside, but we are nuts about these games. We'd rather spend the time to get it right and try different approaches than release something we aren't proud of.
In terms of the beta: This new approach is a direct response to many of the issues that have been brought up in the past, and yes, we understand that there will always be people disappointed or confused with our decision, but we hope that in time they'll come around. We wouldn't be doing it if we didn't think it was the best approach for the game.
Finally, here's one very, very simple reason for the beta: We don't have your hardware. Sure, we have a wide variety of devices we test on, but in the scheme of things, that's still a very small percentage of the enormous amount out there. If you're willing to lend us a hand -- and if you'd rather not, that's cool too, we totally understand -- we want to make sure Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition and BG2:EE, these awesome games we love, are playable by the maximum amount of people possible.
1- Windows OS - WinXP(Sp2, Sp3), Vista (sp1, sp2), 7 (vanilla, sp1), 8 (and all the little tweaks within all of them!)
2- Video (brand: Intel, Nvidia, AMD (ATI), model (So many I'm not gonna list!) (with drivers and tweaks too!)
(Go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Nvidia_graphics_processing_units and see ALL NVidia's model after including the 8000 series... Ouch...)
3- Sound cards... (software and drivers).
*4- Chipsets... You know how many compagnies make motherboards? Abit, Asus, Gigabyte, to name but a very few!
To have all combinations, they'd need over 2000 PC's (hell, I think 5000 wouldn't even be enough!) for sure (And I'm sure they don't have that at their work place) to test each and every settings. So, going on an open Beta, asking the community's help (that I'm sure has a wider range of hardware and software difference) is a good idea for sure!
*Forgot 4... Now added...
Have you EVER done QA for a complex program? Ever?
I don't care how good your QA team is. They are going to miss shit. They simply cannot compete with hundreds upon thousands of gamers for raw testing potential. They WILL miss stuff. Hell, in terms of CPU components (various versions of windows, emulators of windows, chipsets, etc) they can't test everything.
This Open Beta? It is a GOOD THING, especially for a company with limited manpower like (I presume) Beamdog. It means that they are at least interested in appearing like they want to get the patch right. It means they want to get it out and get as many bugs fixed as possible, as quickly as possible, without destroying anyone's game. It also means they have determined they need the help (as generally evidenced by the large swathe of post release bugs).
I get a lot of you want to hate on Beamdog and blame them for their mistakes. Fine. You are allowed to. You have legit complaints. But stop bitching about something that represents real, honest to God progress.
So I would plead with anyone that has the spare time and patience to please try the open beta! Your feedback will likely have a much greater impact now than after the final release, and everyone will benefit from this.
Secondly. I am pleased to see open beta plans. It can only improve the official release.
Onwards and upwards!
And I get it for a measly 20 bucks.
That's all I have to say other than that I can't wait to download the beta.
Even if I were motivated to do so, I don't think I could possibly ever reach the level of enlightenment which would allow me to comprehend the sense of entitlement that each one of these trolling screed-posts seems to be dripping with: the whining and the complaining and the insulting tone, like something that might come out of one of the bad kids from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory right before something ironic happens to them.
This is something that one would think would have gone away once it was announced that Beamdog could continue its work. But no! It hasn't. I pop back onto the forums after a couple weeks of not obsessively checking in, and I find that the haters are still here. It just baffles me. I'd say these people need a hobby, and I'd recommend video games, but that just seems like it would be playing into an already destructive cycle.
I'm just happy you guys are able to keep doin' the Lord's work, here. So keep on keepin' on.
At any rate, don't try to find logic or reason in it. I know your frustration, I've never been able to figure out what moves people to act in such a manner either. Just chalk it up to poor impulse control and a misplaced sense of entitlement I guess. But every cloud has a silver lining (depending on prevailing celestial alignment), it does vindicate my deep-seated cynicism. So that's nice.
This being the internet, there is also plenty of room for people changing their minds, and I wouldn't want to sour someone's new position (nor their old one, for that matter) by antagonizing their (sometimes actually somewhat warranted) complaints.
This summer hasn't been great for transparency; I'll be the first to admit that, and since I'm the one who curates the FAQ, the blame for that pretty much falls on my shoulders. A big part of that is because there wasn't much to say during the "break", but I also know how frustrating it can be to be on the outside with no information.
I had a much longer post talking about my own experiences as an Internetian (pronounced ihn-tehr-NEE-shuhn), but I think I'll just leave it at this:
The forum has rules. Don't flame. Don't troll. Don't spam. Be respectful of others.
As long as you're following those rules, I'm kind of okay with the casual criticisms. Sometimes we do screw up, and I wouldn't want people to just ignore that. We're rather fortunate in that this is considered "uncalled for": If that's what people consider rude behavior, then I think we're probably doing okay.