Workaround idea: Can you release a special client that requires authentication against a steam account possessing a specific game? Runic Games did it with Torchlight 2 for their non-Steam Matchmaking Service (if you bought it via Steam and need to register a Runic account, which requires either a CD-Key or a link to a Steam account that possesses the game).
I know it's a little more work, but that way you are not giving out "free games". You still need either a Beamdog version or a Steam version. Linking can be unique to prevent piracy (a steam account can only be linked to one Beamdog account)
It depends on the relation between Beamdog and Steam, from what i saw, Beamdog answer to ATARI that has relations with steam, so it's probally much more a question of ATARI move itself to make a Beta patch avaliable on steam than anything Beamdog can really provide.
Of course what i'm saying here need confirmation, i just guess this info based on what i regulary see in this forum.
The beta patch on steam however wouldn't be a source of bug reviews cos in fact it would be a bit hard to differ what is a bug introduced by the patch itself and what is just an problem between the Steam engine and the beta patch and the steam engine with the user PC.
Workaround idea: Can you release a special client that requires authentication against a steam account possessing a specific game? Runic Games did it with Torchlight 2 for their non-Steam Matchmaking Service (if you bought it via Steam and need to register a Runic account, which requires either a CD-Key or a link to a Steam account that possesses the game).
I know it's a little more work, but that way you are not giving out "free games". You still need either a Beamdog version or a Steam version. Linking can be unique to prevent piracy (a steam account can only be linked to one Beamdog account)
That's not the problem, using a separate launcher inside steam isn't anything new, plenty of games do so.
The problem is that it's completely unproductive for overhaul to do it. They get way less money if you buy the game in steam compared to directly from them.
First they get a lower % of the sale(they get their cut _after_ steam takes a 30% of the sale) and on top of that there has been plenty of offers where you could buy BGEE for 5$ or less(4$ is the lowest I've seen it, I think) so in the end they need to sell 8 games or so in steam just to earn the same that they do if you buy a single one directly from them.
Plus, if Atari is the one that manages the game in steam, all benefits go to them first so overhaul has to wait for Atari to give them their share, and with the bankruptcy I don't think that's precisely a fast process.
With that in mind is kind of logical if they don't want to put any effort into adding extra value to the steam version since it would hardly pay for itself and in the worst case end up costing them money, be if from developer hours, missed direct sales or both.
I've been using steam for 9 years and BGEE was the first non-steam(preorder)/non-gog game in 4-5 years that I bought so I'm as annoyed as anyone(possibly more than most) about us not getting steam keys when the game was released there and about the steam version being "2nd class", but I don't think we can blame them for focusing their efforts in what actually gives them money.
I think the important thing to remember is that the end goal isn't the Beta, it's having an ACTUAL PATCH released. Beamdog is going about it in the fastest way possible. What they have already is grand and expansive and in-depth and other wonderful adjectives (at least I hear so...), but such comprehensive changes needs comprehensive testing. Providing an open Beta is the FASTEST way to get that done. This helps EVERYONE, even those using Steam. No point releasing a half finished Beta to a bunch of customers that are going to complain when it doesn't work (you know, cause it's a Beta...) when all that will do is slow down the actual work - a point made again and again and again in this thread and elsewhere...
Bottom line is changes and improvements are coming and Beta testing will help speed that process along, but the Beta testing itself isn't the goal...frankly I might not even use the Beta to play (I'm not as serious about BG:EE as many of you are, though I enjoy it immensely) until it becomes an actual update. I don't know the game well enough to spot most bugs and I don't want to have it crash on me the few times a week I do get to play...
@Dee gave a fun answer with an subject too serious
Huh. I thought Dee's response was completely reasonable. Is the level of patch-rage really that high?
I believe you're right about my understand about @Dee answer, @Autequi. It was more a way to simplify his views for the customers than a prank about the patch issue, well then, my sincere apolgises @Dee for my misunderstand of your words.
My mention of making fun of the subject (last paragraph in the ps) more towards @AndrewFoley ironic post, while fun and i'm as a witness took some pleasure from the joke, it's not much professional for someone representative of beamdog.
About being abusive, well i didn't had this feeling, i just saw an frustrated client with an expected outraged behavior, maybe i'm being too nice, as agressive comments are also abusive in this forum (i believe) and he was certainly agressive in his statements.
Yeah little harsh on @AndrewFoley I think @Kamuizin especially since he wasn't really making fun of the content of the post itself, besides he's one of the writers, I'd be disappointed if all of his posts lacked humour!
yes, but the subject is serious, that kind of comment could make the guy flame even more.
While as @Dee said the devs are also forum users, so is comprehensive that they play, joke and make fun around, here in this thread, the subject was opened by trent to relate an official information, people whom represent Beamdog has many rights and prerrogatives, but also some duties towards the maintenance of the company image.
As the spider man's uncle used to say, with great power come great responsibilities. I know many jokes made by some of the people involved with the moderation and even from the devs in other threads, i laught many times about them, but the place (an official info thread) and the moment (as an answer to an dissatisfied customer) isn't proper.
All due respect to all moderators and devs, i just think the importance of an person can't be something intimidating to me speak the truth plain and simple. I'm not the best example of civility as sometimes take courses of actions much more serious than the simple joke made (@Dee knows it, he already moderated many of my comments in this forum), but then, i'm a simple customer not an representative of Beamdog, anything i do will only reflect bad in my person and only in it.
And from experience, not as a developer, but managing them, I've become immune for "if you wait just a while longer we can also do this and this" and in their enthousiasm they dont realise they are already long overdue
Your opinion is completely worthless. Non-programmers who 'manage' programmers are almost always the problem in any development process. Building software is non-analogous to nearly any other process, and your type has no grasp on that.
Isn't the patch released yet?... OH MY GOD. Devs have said that the reason why they couldn't release the next patch is due to the dispute with Atari, haven't they? And the problem was solved a few weeks ago... What's the next problem?
Isn't the patch released yet?... OH MY GOD. Devs have said that the reason why they couldn't release the next patch is due to the dispute with Atari, haven't they? And the problem was solved a few weeks ago... What's the next problem?
Actually, they said they couldn't work on it due to the dispute on Atari. No one claimed it was all ready to be released, but for the dispute. So the next problem is simply the previous problem, which is the usual problem of having to actually finish the product before releasing it. Doesn't usually work very well if you do it the other way around, at any rate.
And from experience, not as a developer, but managing them, I've become immune for "if you wait just a while longer we can also do this and this" and in their enthousiasm they dont realise they are already long overdue
Your opinion is completely worthless. Non-programmers who 'manage' programmers are almost always the problem in any development process. Building software is non-analogous to nearly any other process, and your type has no grasp on that.
My opinion is worthless? Thanks for showing just how clever you are.
The problem with programmers is that they very often lose touch with the commercial proces. Programmers make very bad managers as is proven time and time again. This is not an art project, unless they dont want to be paid at the end of the month.
But maybe "your type" , as you so cleverly put it, doesnt get that.
I won't let this thread become a shouting match or a place to exchange insults. If people can't be civil with each other, I will close it.
Since it may have been missed before, I'll say it again:
The rules about flaming, trolling, and respect apply to everyone, even when you're addressing someone you feel is being disrespectful. If you have a problem with a user, please send me a PM instead of attacking them directly on the forums.
If you have a question about the Site Rules, feel free to send me a PM.
With the new rendering engine coming out soon, I was curious What kinds of video hardware does everyone have? Do you have problems with your hardware or not? I am running a 550 Fermi that works brilliantly with the game.
As far as I know Intel HD4000 has problems, but I was curious if other integrated solutions are problematic. To my knowledge discrete graphics have no problems whatsoever.
Aye carumba! what a mess this thread is becoming. I go away for 6 months and come back to this nonsense and is giving me a migraine! Civility has become a lost art with the advent of new media and has turned the internet populace in general into an anger management councillor's new wet dream. Lots of new business. I've lost it once or twice myself regarding some trolls who just would not calm down and speak intelligently about their issues, but instead insisted on venting for the sake of venting without any facts or points made. And making a jest does not mean a person doesn't take something seriously. Often times humor is used to try and de-fuse a potentially contentious issue, I do it a lot myself. I seem to remember 6 months ago, similar bile being vented and blame being laid at beamdog/overhaul games' feet about the whole steam issue when it has nothing really to do with them, but with steam itself. So chill folks, stay polite and civil and make arguments intelligently rather than dragging your knuckles on the ground and beating your chests. Now it's time to check my bp before my new pacemaker explodes lol.
With the new rendering engine coming out soon, I was curious What kinds of video hardware does everyone have? Do you have problems with your hardware or not? I am running a 550 Fermi that works brilliantly with the game.
As far as I know Intel HD4000 has problems, but I was curious if other integrated solutions are problematic. To my knowledge discrete graphics have no problems whatsoever.
I have Intel GMA 3150, the game crashes at start until I change OpenGL to version 1.0 (I think). After that the game lags as hell with no spells (when I cast spells, well you can imagine it's even worse).
The following, unlike most of what I post and indeed the way I strive to deal with life in general because, hey, I like not throwing myself off bridges in fits of crippling depression, is absolutely serious.
I haven't mentioned it recently because it had devolved into a bit of a joke in earlier posts, but for the record: unless otherwise specified (and I can't imagine why anyone would allow me to specify otherwise), anything I write on this or any other public forum is solely my opinion and should in no way be construed as representing the positions of Beamdog, Overhaul, or anyone else.
If we bought the game from Beamdog, can we expect an email notification when the patch is released? I'd rather not keep checking here--or keep booting the game to see if it updates. Thanks!
Am i on the right forums here? This is baldursgate and not World of Warcraft right? I feel like I'm watching 12 year old danish Kids arguing over well.... I actually don't know what!
No I am not flaming anyone at all - It is just a simple observation on what appears to be quite silly arguments and rather silly reactions
If we bought the game from Beamdog, can we expect an email notification when the patch is released? I'd rather not keep checking here--or keep booting the game to see if it updates. Thanks!
One thing that I feel has been poorly managed is the Android version. It's not even been released yet and you're working flat out on BG2:EE? What is that all about? Is it the second class citizen of operating systems or what? It's been that long I would take a buggy, incomplete release now than this current situation.
One thing that I feel has been poorly managed is the Android version. It's not even been released yet and you're working flat out on BG2:EE? What is that all about? Is it the second class citizen of operating systems or what? It's been that long I would take a buggy, incomplete release now than this current situation.
This is a question that should probably go into the FAQ, considering how important it is to a lot of people:
We have two sides of development. On one side is content development; that's where things like NPC and quest content, basic bug fixes, and new products like BG2EE get created. That work is on-going, and certainly won't stop any time soon. It's the work that ensures you do get a patch when a patch is needed (although sometimes you have to wait a while).
On the other side is engine development; that's where things like performance enhancements, renderer fixes, and platform compatibility happen. This is the side that works on stability for Windows, Mac, iPad, and Android.
So in other words, the Android version is being worked on by a separate team from BG2EE. I hope that clears things up a bit.
Dee, what you just said sounds like there is no work needed at all for BG2EE on engine development. It's a bit surprising: i thought a minimum of work would be needed to adapt some things on it.
Anyway it's a good news for BG2EE : it means it should be ready as soon the content development team has finished its work, right ?
Again, updates to Steam take weeks instead of hours because they have to go through Atari first. It simply isn't feasible.
So why not give Atari the open Beta version and the option to get the work done to release it on steam any way? Or is the Open Beta scheduled to only last a week or two thus making the steam release of a beta useless to you guys?
Here's the micro version of what would happen.
Day 1: Open Beta is released to Beamdog customers. Day 2: A bug is found, and the Beta is updated to fix it. Day 3: A couple more bugs are found, and the Beta is updated to fix them. Day 4: Fifteen bugs are discovered and fixed, and the Beta is updated. Day 5: No new bugs are discovered, but an update is released anyway to fix some thirty-five bugs that have previously been reported. Day 6: Five new bugs are fixed; Beta is updated. Day 7: A new feature is implemented for testing. Day 8: Saturday; the team takes the weekend off. Day 9: Open Beta is released to Steam customers. Day 10: Steam customers report the bug from Day 2, because they're playing with a week-old build. Steam customers also report that the feature implemented on Day 7 isn't in the game (which it obviously won't be for another week). Day 11: Chaos, I guess?
Let's say we catch and fix a hundred bugs in that first week. Now the Steam version's "Open Beta" is entirely useless because A) we don't know if it's a bug that still occurs in the current build, and we don't know if it's a bug that we've already fixed. (And also C) we don't know if it's a bug that's caused by something goin awry with Steam.)
But it's actually worse than useless, because now we have to spend several hours tracking down all the bugs being reported on the Steam version to see if they're the same as the ones that have already been fixed in the Beamdog version. And that continues for every beta update that gets delayed.
If you want to participate in the Open Beta, buy the Beamdog version and grab the client. If you don't want to do that, then you'll get the patch when it's polished and ready for release. There's nothing wrong with not participating in the Beta, but when you make the choice to purchase through Steam you're choosing the convenience of having your games in one location (and, more than likely, a highly discounted purchase price), over the perk of receiving patches on-time and (in this case) participating in public betas.
are you serious ????
just send the beta to atari/steam WAIT one WEEK,update the Beamdog versionm OPEN the beta to everyone. get feedback, build a patch, send it to atari/steam, wait one week, update the Beamdog version and so on............ you guys need a better manager....
your micro version is bullshit/non-sense I don't believe you your doing this to get more cash (am not going to buy two time the same game) why in the nine hell would you want 2 different version of the same game ? say goodbye to multiplayers.... I say ditch the Beamdog version or give all the steam user a key for the Beamdog version this in really mess up ! welcome in 2013!
ps and don't come at me saying : "but we did not know about the steam version..." WELL ... YOU SHOULD HAVE !, it is entirely your fault for not asking. now deal with it
I have paid the same price as everyone I expect to get the same stuff as everyone now if you tell me that your not going to take care of the steam version am going to get a refund via my credit card and tell everyone to download your game via torrent because you guys do not care a bit about your customer.
Grow up Troll!
Sorry @Magic88255 and BGEE people for that silly reaction. I just popped into the patch status thread quickly that day, and for some reason couldn't control my nerd-rage at the time.
This might be already asked but will the improved multiplayer mode included in the next patch? because i read that some kind of improved multiplayer mode will be in the bg2 ee...i still hope that it's released beofre that...to be honest the promise of a new multiplayer version was my reason to buy the ee back a year ago in the first place...my friends and me never got that silly thingy we have right now to work.
And may i also ask about the language packs? i mean common a year after the release? XD
Comments
Of course what i'm saying here need confirmation, i just guess this info based on what i regulary see in this forum.
The beta patch on steam however wouldn't be a source of bug reviews cos in fact it would be a bit hard to differ what is a bug introduced by the patch itself and what is just an problem between the Steam engine and the beta patch and the steam engine with the user PC.
The problem is that it's completely unproductive for overhaul to do it. They get way less money if you buy the game in steam compared to directly from them.
First they get a lower % of the sale(they get their cut _after_ steam takes a 30% of the sale) and on top of that there has been plenty of offers where you could buy BGEE for 5$ or less(4$ is the lowest I've seen it, I think) so in the end they need to sell 8 games or so in steam just to earn the same that they do if you buy a single one directly from them.
Plus, if Atari is the one that manages the game in steam, all benefits go to them first so overhaul has to wait for Atari to give them their share, and with the bankruptcy I don't think that's precisely a fast process.
With that in mind is kind of logical if they don't want to put any effort into adding extra value to the steam version since it would hardly pay for itself and in the worst case end up costing them money, be if from developer hours, missed direct sales or both.
I've been using steam for 9 years and BGEE was the first non-steam(preorder)/non-gog game in 4-5 years that I bought so I'm as annoyed as anyone(possibly more than most) about us not getting steam keys when the game was released there and about the steam version being "2nd class", but I don't think we can blame them for focusing their efforts in what actually gives them money.
Just my opinion.
I agree with much of what you said, but... He called the devs liars and then he talked about how he was going to pirate the game. How is that not abusive?
Huh. I thought Dee's response was completely reasonable. Is the level of patch-rage really that high?
Bottom line is changes and improvements are coming and Beta testing will help speed that process along, but the Beta testing itself isn't the goal...frankly I might not even use the Beta to play (I'm not as serious about BG:EE as many of you are, though I enjoy it immensely) until it becomes an actual update. I don't know the game well enough to spot most bugs and I don't want to have it crash on me the few times a week I do get to play...
My mention of making fun of the subject (last paragraph in the ps) more towards @AndrewFoley ironic post, while fun and i'm as a witness took some pleasure from the joke, it's not much professional for someone representative of beamdog.
About being abusive, well i didn't had this feeling, i just saw an frustrated client with an expected outraged behavior, maybe i'm being too nice, as agressive comments are also abusive in this forum (i believe) and he was certainly agressive in his statements.
We're only human.
While as @Dee said the devs are also forum users, so is comprehensive that they play, joke and make fun around, here in this thread, the subject was opened by trent to relate an official information, people whom represent Beamdog has many rights and prerrogatives, but also some duties towards the maintenance of the company image.
As the spider man's uncle used to say, with great power come great responsibilities. I know many jokes made by some of the people involved with the moderation and even from the devs in other threads, i laught many times about them, but the place (an official info thread) and the moment (as an answer to an dissatisfied customer) isn't proper.
All due respect to all moderators and devs, i just think the importance of an person can't be something intimidating to me speak the truth plain and simple. I'm not the best example of civility as sometimes take courses of actions much more serious than the simple joke made (@Dee knows it, he already moderated many of my comments in this forum), but then, i'm a simple customer not an representative of Beamdog, anything i do will only reflect bad in my person and only in it.
The problem with programmers is that they very often lose touch with the commercial proces. Programmers make very bad managers as is proven time and time again. This is not an art project, unless they dont want to be paid at the end of the month.
But maybe "your type" , as you so cleverly put it, doesnt get that.
Since it may have been missed before, I'll say it again:
The rules about flaming, trolling, and respect apply to everyone, even when you're addressing someone you feel is being disrespectful. If you have a problem with a user, please send me a PM instead of attacking them directly on the forums.
If you have a question about the Site Rules, feel free to send me a PM.
As far as I know Intel HD4000 has problems, but I was curious if other integrated solutions are problematic. To my knowledge discrete graphics have no problems whatsoever.
I seem to remember 6 months ago, similar bile being vented and blame being laid at beamdog/overhaul games' feet about the whole steam issue when it has nothing really to do with them, but with steam itself. So chill folks, stay polite and civil and make arguments intelligently rather than dragging your knuckles on the ground and beating your chests. Now it's time to check my bp before my new pacemaker explodes lol.
After that the game lags as hell with no spells (when I cast spells, well you can imagine it's even worse).
I haven't mentioned it recently because it had devolved into a bit of a joke in earlier posts, but for the record: unless otherwise specified (and I can't imagine why anyone would allow me to specify otherwise), anything I write on this or any other public forum is solely my opinion and should in no way be construed as representing the positions of Beamdog, Overhaul, or anyone else.
No I am not flaming anyone at all - It is just a simple observation on what appears to be quite silly arguments and rather silly reactions
We have two sides of development. On one side is content development; that's where things like NPC and quest content, basic bug fixes, and new products like BG2EE get created. That work is on-going, and certainly won't stop any time soon. It's the work that ensures you do get a patch when a patch is needed (although sometimes you have to wait a while).
On the other side is engine development; that's where things like performance enhancements, renderer fixes, and platform compatibility happen. This is the side that works on stability for Windows, Mac, iPad, and Android.
So in other words, the Android version is being worked on by a separate team from BG2EE. I hope that clears things up a bit.
Anyway it's a good news for BG2EE : it means it should be ready as soon the content development team has finished its work, right ?
When can I see the Chinese language pack?
And may i also ask about the language packs? i mean common a year after the release? XD
Anyways...i'm looking forward to your answers!