I don't know what to say because, Dragon Age 1 kick-ass, Dragon Age 2 suuuuucks, yet same developers and some who worked on Baldurs Gate and Neverwinter Nights. The truth is, even if they hired 100% same team who did BG1 and 2 I still think people will have expectations that could never be reached.
So yes, I rather have a BG3 then none. Atleast it makes people still talk about the franchise and the gameplay.
And yes, I rather play a decent rpg in the baldurs gate universe then another shooter.
[...] Maybe make it for Xbox one too but no PS4 please. [...]
I am curious about something, @Ville. Why did you single out the PS4 to not get the hypothetical game? Such a fantastic game idea absolutely deserves to be on all systems.
I think (hope) that this was merely more of the sarcasm.
Reading this thread got me thinking about what makes BG such a great series, like @raxtoren said, the very developers have worked on other less-successful titles. I personally feel that there's an alchemy in game creation, and that the mix that worked for BG was the game that was extrapolated from D&D, a bit of the unreal derived from a structured and well-defined system. It's why I would say to the purists "think differently", to the casual "eff the aich off kthx" and to the gamer "appreciate the subtleties".
Anyhow, per the original post, I believe Beamdog would be excellent for BG3 because of the challenges they face. They've shown they care about our feedback time and again, so, like, poor them? The developer community also holds massive respect for the series, no pressure, and then there's the n+1 contracts to maintain (disclaimer: It is my understanding that the current difficulties are in no way related to the end-product). By the end of this if Beamdog doesn't know how to make a great game I'll eat my hat, I'll eat all the hats! OwO /|D
Final thought; having Chris Avellone and other rock-star developers is great, but how much greater would it be seeing Kaeloree or Camdawg flex their muscles on an original game in a setting they appreciate. They've contributed much to my game at no cost to me, and I don't pretend to understand the minutiae of their work with Overhaul, but I hope that this is their in for game-design, now is the time of the new-bloods!
If you disagree I'll eat your hat, don't think I won't. /thesolutionis-hat (hyphenated for clarity)
btw speaking of Baldurs Gate, if they make a third game ... mayby they should switch continent or region?
Because then it wouldn't be Baldur's Gate??
Yes and No. Baldur's Gate was just a big town, an important location in BG1. after playing BG2 or Neverwinter nights or even Icewind Dale ( both games take place on the same continent btw) they feel the same. As long as the story is somewhat connected to the Gods, like Bhaal or some of the previous characters, it would still be a Baldurs Gate game.
btw speaking of Baldurs Gate, if they make a third game ... mayby they should switch continent or region?
I would prefer if it was set near and in Baldur's Gate (perhaps covering the areas to the north and northeast of the city), but perhaps a generation or more after the original game.
It would be cool (IMO) to see the city again years after the events of BG1.
Indeed BG2 is athkatla and not in BG but it is near baldur's gate and directly following the story of BG. I guess TOB takes you other places but TOB kinda sucks.
If you switch continent or region the ties to the original are probably going to be very thin - so why call it baldur's gate?
As I said, for me Baldurs Gate isnt about "Baldurs Gate" its about the trouble time and Bhaalspawn, that is what the story was about. or else we can just name the games (which are in the same regions) Neverwinter nights or Icewind Dale.
Indeed BG2 is athkatla and not in BG but it is near baldur's gate and directly following the story of BG. I guess TOB takes you other places but TOB kinda sucks.
Well, you can argue that BG2 took place in Amn and that Amn was a big part of the story in BG1, but really, I don't think the location of the setting played any part in BG2 in that sense. We didn't hear about the just-averted threat of war with Baldur's Gate, we didn't get to hear about the iron crisis or the trouble at Nashkel. If anything, Amn in BG2 was just a fresh slate, a new setting for a sequel.
On the other hand we got a very nice look into Amnish culture and atmosphere, which is more than I can say about TOB and Tethyr.
Case in point, I think just about any setting could make a good location for another BG game as long as they keep in mind and focus on the values that made the first two games so great.
Location is flavour, and I change my tastes about as often as I change my cereal funnily enough. I do agree that Tethyr wasn't represented very well, primarily due to the story overshadowing it and making it taste like ash and fear.
Edit: In saying that, I wouldn't mind had the ToB campaign taken place across the entirety of the Sword Coast, either, bringing such a story to already well-loved places is like epilogueception, cathartic if you have had the pleasure of playing throughout, instead of possibly getting something like the Big Metal Unit and extra points on your character sheet. Digression, though.
Hmm, Calimshan is a very interesting place and still on the Sword Coast.
This isn't really in response to any one particular post in this thread, just my own twopenneth really. I would like to see another game in the franchise but, as I've indicated here in the past and elsewhere on teh interwebs, I have very definite (I've had a long time to dream them up) - and plausible, I think - ideas about where any new game in the Baldur's Gate franchise - by which I mean all games bearing the Baldur's Gate name - and as such my fear would be that difference between the reality of such a game and my headcanon would lead to me being hugely disappointed. Also, as someone who enjoys gaming but has a visual disability which makes gaming on 3D first / third person view engines a pretty hellish experience that entirely negates the so-called immersive experience I would be even more gutted if my favourite game was transferred to this format*. I can't tell you the number of games I've been desperate to play but have given up on because they end up giving me a feeling akin to vertigo.
*I've seen the beginnings of the transfer of BGII to the DA engine and it looks fantastic but I'd never play it.
The best way to see a sequel is that : Don't make a sequel because it sells, or for its namesake, or because you can. The focus should be at making a good game. A good example as in Nintendo keep using the same characters for like 30 years and can still make good games. Nintendo makes a good game with Mario in it. It doesn't make a game for Mario.
I actually miss the more traditional D&D party style game play with epic tactical battles that some of the more random or non-key battles can kill you (this is one of key reasons that BG2 is such a good game). It is possible to make a new good game based on that concept possibly within the D&D context. Another great thing about making a Forgotten Realm game is that you have an universe already built, so it is about the a good exploitation of the existing universe.
The original BG2 ends the Bhaal story arc. I think it will be illogical to try to extend the story, but I think there is something can be done with some of the BG characters (who doesn't love Minsc!?). However, the game play style can be further evolved (like with more effective use of graphics, usage of more updated D&D rules, or building an effective story within Forgotten Realm world).
Epic battles + epic story with an universe already built = win
However, I caution somehow let the original Baldur's Gate to constrain the way to make a new GOOD game. Baldur's Gate III doesn't have to be called "Baldur's Gate III", but some tributes and idea borrowing from one of the best game ever made is a fantastic idea.
Also we may never know about what developers can do or not do.
I think Obsidian statue made KOTOR 2 and NWN2 bad, in comparsion to KOTOR and NWN.
However, Fallout new vegas was a great game.
I always thought Obsidian in the end would make a new icewind dale or baldur's gate, they ended up on making eternity though... that will be a hit or miss.
Just like Bioware and their Dragon Again sometimes its great to start a new universe/world from scratch. Only problem is that it can also suck a lot.
The punchline is: new world/old world or not, I don't care that much. If the old world helps, great - I am all for it. However, don't do it because you can or feel you really have to.
I think Obsidian statue made KOTOR 2 and NWN2 bad, in comparsion to KOTOR and NWN.
KOTOR 2 and NWN2 are way better than their first versions, specially if you like story more than combat. NWN 2 MOTB story is probably the best I've seen so far in RPGs. NWN2 has more options, better graphics, story, mechanics, a LOT better companions with interesting dialogues and I really fail to see ANY aspect in which NWN1 is better except the common sense of "the original one is better".
I liked KOTOR 2 even though it was rushed to delivery (there was some effort to restore content but I don't know if that succeeded).
But I would be saddened to see a BG3 based on the Aurora engine.
I primarily liked NWN1 (and NWN2) for the online multiplayer action. But for BG3, I would really want a deeply immersive experience (visually stunning, compelling plot line, lot of quests) that wasn't from a first-person perspective. My personal bias is that I really want to keep the D&D PnP style of playing (even better for me would be with the ToEE turn-based combat interface :P).
I do think that the new characters are a bit of a miss for me. So I truly understand what the OP is afraid of. But it's better to talk about the pitfalls of these characters rather than to dismiss the team completely.
So part of what made Baldur's Gate feel different is the way the characters are written. It's not about the initial presentation of what they are in terms of "chaotic evil wizard says evil things and does evil" or "Neera is a Wild Mage who accientally blows off things, because wild mages.". Or "Dorn Strong. Dorn Evil. Dorn Blackguard".
Good example of this is Gorion, who's mostly laid forth to the reader as a father figure. He's a powerful mage, but the initial impression of him that of a father. It's a surprise to see the power he wields in action once he's not very much pre-hyped by the game.
Another is Elminster, who looks like a wizard of power, but mostly engages in interesting dialogue relevant to his motives, rather than showoff of his strength in magic.
Another one is the impact Irenicus has on the player in the start of BG2. He's an evil wizard again, but again the intial impression leaves you describing him more as a person of great determination to achieve something, rather than focusing on his wizardry.
Kagain is not a dwarf of tremendous constitution, axes and beer. But rather a shopkeeper who's interested in making money.
This keeps going on as a theme in BG1 and BG2. And the new characters are written differently, and that's why, to me, they stand out. Initial impression is always of what they are (dorn blows off things,neera makes things vanish, rasaad displays his monkish ways), rather than what their motivation is outside of the generic fantasy setting.
To be more in line with BG, Dorn would've been a fisherman. Rasaad would've been cleaning the manor's garden and Neera would've wanted to sell trinkets for money.
I hope I did make some sense. That was just a lot of quickly written rambling.
Whoever does BG3, I hope they do it in 5e rules. BG3 would be great flagship for Wizards D&D Next.
While it would be interesting to see a CRPG implement the Advantage system, I would prefer a 4E BG, so we can have a D&D CRPG where the party is not married to its Clerics (solo runs notwithstanding). The healing surge system is just wonderful.
@Schneidend: I've always seen 4e as a disgrace. The greater powers were ridiculous, it made them all seem like mages or clerics of one degree or another. I've tried 4e and just realized the rules were terribly unbalanced and compared to 3.5e, did the game a supreme injustice.
On another note, I don't see why Overhaul wouldn't be fantastic for BG3. They have done wonders with converting the code base to portables, especially for Android, which is primarily a java-driven platform instead of c++ (for those who are programmatically inclined), and I have no problems with the additions. They were very restricted to what they could do (changing the rule sets, adding major elements, etc, were a big nono), and I thought they did a fantastic job.
Finally, in regards with what could be done, I dont see why they couldn't take the infinity engine (or whatever iteration it's up to), and upgrade it for modern day use, then use it for Baldur's Gate 3, along with a possible storyline of A child CHARNAME and their canon lover had finding out who they are and where they belong, along with older variants of the BG1/2 characters (imoen, Jaheira, etc), and a larger explorable area (entire sword coast, from Baldur's Gate to Waterdeep for example). This is just me throwing ideas, but I'd buy and play it in a shot.
I imagine that if Overhaul does BG3 they either have to hire a few more man or they have to work 12 hourse a day at minimum 6 days a week. I dont know what beast BG3 has to be in terms of content and story but it´s a safe bet that if the game is "short" and not detailed.. (and i dont mean high poly models or 2048 textures)... you earn nothing more than pure hate and you deserve it to be honest.
So whoever gets the gift from Bhaal be prepared of some hardcore fanatics who will not stop to verbally torture you that you are doing it wrong, or just not good enough or you just sold your soul to the devil because its a rated PG13 game...
But i would love to see BG3 being developed by some smaller studio that dont has these grey suits always in the highest office sitting being manipulated by the marceting strategists on how to turn da game into much much more money just by giving "orders" on how not to develope the game.
these marceting idiots are a plague and shouldt have access to any meeting that forges the way the game should be period! Why i think so an example... DA2 is not a game it is just "software entertainment junk food" So never trust a guy in a high position who thinks that "awesome button smashing" is a feature for a RPG...ahem how can be someone so incompetent and minus creative holding such a position??? It became so clear as the term "cool" came into place that the game was created in the marceting office and was dictated from their on downwards.
BG3 should be political incorrect at maximum also...
I forgot to quote you something from the awesome button thread from bio just for the laughs and why marceting has gone berzerk.
"Bioware has told us that in Dragon Age 2, when you press a button, something AWESOME happens.
So I thought: Why not collect all the AWESOME stuff that happens when you press a button in this thread to serve as a guide for players to make sure that they wont miss any of the AWESOMENESS. Please add your own.
When pressing the "W" button on my keyboard, Hawke moves forward! AWESOME!
When pressing my left mouse button on a new dungeon entrance I havent visited before, It is revealed that it is one among a dozen entrances to a dungeon I am already familiar with. AWESOME!
@Schneidend: I've always seen 4e as a disgrace. The greater powers were ridiculous, it made them all seem like mages or clerics of one degree or another. I've tried 4e and just realized the rules were terribly unbalanced and compared to 3.5e, did the game a supreme injustice.
Not to turn this into an Edition debate, but "unbalanced"? Part of the point of Powers was to balance the crazy gap between certain classes at certain level ranges so that there aren't situations like in 3.5 where spell save DCs simply become impossible to meet. It was also intended to allow all classes to do cool things without having to invest in costly feat trees, which addresses your other point, that it made the other classes "seem like mages or clerics." Powers allowed Fighters to do things besides whack stuff, but it doesn't mean they had everything in the toolbox available to them. Creating difficult terrain, walls, and extradimensional spaces as well as mind controlling foes and turning invisible remained the exclusive repertoire of classes with magical powers. I don't think a Fighter who can sacrifice a little bit of damage to knock an enemy prone is really stepping on a Wizard's toes.
Comments
The truth is, even if they hired 100% same team who did BG1 and 2 I still think people will have expectations that could never be reached.
So yes, I rather have a BG3 then none. Atleast it makes people still talk about the franchise and the gameplay.
And yes, I rather play a decent rpg in the baldurs gate universe then another shooter.
Because then it wouldn't be Baldur's Gate??
Anyhow, per the original post, I believe Beamdog would be excellent for BG3 because of the challenges they face. They've shown they care about our feedback time and again, so, like, poor them? The developer community also holds massive respect for the series, no pressure, and then there's the n+1 contracts to maintain (disclaimer: It is my understanding that the current difficulties are in no way related to the end-product). By the end of this if Beamdog doesn't know how to make a great game I'll eat my hat, I'll eat all the hats! OwO /|D
Final thought; having Chris Avellone and other rock-star developers is great, but how much greater would it be seeing Kaeloree or Camdawg flex their muscles on an original game in a setting they appreciate. They've contributed much to my game at no cost to me, and I don't pretend to understand the minutiae of their work with Overhaul, but I hope that this is their in for game-design, now is the time of the new-bloods!
If you disagree I'll eat your hat, don't think I won't. /thesolutionis-hat (hyphenated for clarity)
Also, BG2?
It would be cool (IMO) to see the city again years after the events of BG1.
If you switch continent or region the ties to the original are probably going to be very thin - so why call it baldur's gate?
On the other hand we got a very nice look into Amnish culture and atmosphere, which is more than I can say about TOB and Tethyr.
Case in point, I think just about any setting could make a good location for another BG game as long as they keep in mind and focus on the values that made the first two games so great.
Edit:
In saying that, I wouldn't mind had the ToB campaign taken place across the entirety of the Sword Coast, either, bringing such a story to already well-loved places is like epilogueception, cathartic if you have had the pleasure of playing throughout, instead of possibly getting something like the Big Metal Unit and extra points on your character sheet. Digression, though.
Hmm, Calimshan is a very interesting place and still on the Sword Coast.
*I've seen the beginnings of the transfer of BGII to the DA engine and it looks fantastic but I'd never play it.
Dont like the op's attitude though. At all.
I actually miss the more traditional D&D party style game play with epic tactical battles that some of the more random or non-key battles can kill you (this is one of key reasons that BG2 is such a good game). It is possible to make a new good game based on that concept possibly within the D&D context. Another great thing about making a Forgotten Realm game is that you have an universe already built, so it is about the a good exploitation of the existing universe.
The original BG2 ends the Bhaal story arc. I think it will be illogical to try to extend the story, but I think there is something can be done with some of the BG characters (who doesn't love Minsc!?). However, the game play style can be further evolved (like with more effective use of graphics, usage of more updated D&D rules, or building an effective story within Forgotten Realm world).
Epic battles + epic story with an universe already built = win
However, I caution somehow let the original Baldur's Gate to constrain the way to make a new GOOD game. Baldur's Gate III doesn't have to be called "Baldur's Gate III", but some tributes and idea borrowing from one of the best game ever made is a fantastic idea.
I think Obsidian statue made KOTOR 2 and NWN2 bad, in comparsion to KOTOR and NWN.
However, Fallout new vegas was a great game.
I always thought Obsidian in the end would make a new icewind dale or baldur's gate, they ended up on making eternity though... that will be a hit or miss.
Just like Bioware and their Dragon Again sometimes its great to start a new universe/world from scratch. Only problem is that it can also suck a lot.
Just make sure you make a good game.
But I would be saddened to see a BG3 based on the Aurora engine.
I primarily liked NWN1 (and NWN2) for the online multiplayer action. But for BG3, I would really want a deeply immersive experience (visually stunning, compelling plot line, lot of quests) that wasn't from a first-person perspective. My personal bias is that I really want to keep the D&D PnP style of playing (even better for me would be with the ToEE turn-based combat interface :P).
So part of what made Baldur's Gate feel different is the way the characters are written. It's not about the initial presentation of what they are in terms of "chaotic evil wizard says evil things and does evil" or "Neera is a Wild Mage who accientally blows off things, because wild mages.". Or "Dorn Strong. Dorn Evil. Dorn Blackguard".
Good example of this is Gorion, who's mostly laid forth to the reader as a father figure. He's a powerful mage, but the initial impression of him that of a father. It's a surprise to see the power he wields in action once he's not very much pre-hyped by the game.
Another is Elminster, who looks like a wizard of power, but mostly engages in interesting dialogue relevant to his motives, rather than showoff of his strength in magic.
Another one is the impact Irenicus has on the player in the start of BG2. He's an evil wizard again, but again the intial impression leaves you describing him more as a person of great determination to achieve something, rather than focusing on his wizardry.
Kagain is not a dwarf of tremendous constitution, axes and beer. But rather a shopkeeper who's interested in making money.
This keeps going on as a theme in BG1 and BG2. And the new characters are written differently, and that's why, to me, they stand out. Initial impression is always of what they are (dorn blows off things,neera makes things vanish, rasaad displays his monkish ways), rather than what their motivation is outside of the generic fantasy setting.
To be more in line with BG, Dorn would've been a fisherman. Rasaad would've been cleaning the manor's garden and Neera would've wanted to sell trinkets for money.
I hope I did make some sense. That was just a lot of quickly written rambling.
On another note, I don't see why Overhaul wouldn't be fantastic for BG3. They have done wonders with converting the code base to portables, especially for Android, which is primarily a java-driven platform instead of c++ (for those who are programmatically inclined), and I have no problems with the additions. They were very restricted to what they could do (changing the rule sets, adding major elements, etc, were a big nono), and I thought they did a fantastic job.
Finally, in regards with what could be done, I dont see why they couldn't take the infinity engine (or whatever iteration it's up to), and upgrade it for modern day use, then use it for Baldur's Gate 3, along with a possible storyline of A child CHARNAME and their canon lover had finding out who they are and where they belong, along with older variants of the BG1/2 characters (imoen, Jaheira, etc), and a larger explorable area (entire sword coast, from Baldur's Gate to Waterdeep for example). This is just me throwing ideas, but I'd buy and play it in a shot.
So whoever gets the gift from Bhaal be prepared of some hardcore fanatics who will not stop to verbally torture you that you are doing it wrong, or just not good enough or you just sold your soul to the devil because its a rated PG13 game...
But i would love to see BG3 being developed by some smaller studio that dont has these grey suits always in the highest office sitting being manipulated by the marceting strategists on how to turn da game into much much more money just by giving "orders" on how not to develope the game.
these marceting idiots are a plague and shouldt have access to any meeting that forges the way the game should be period! Why i think so an example... DA2 is not a game it is just "software entertainment junk food"
So never trust a guy in a high position who thinks that "awesome button smashing" is a feature for a RPG...ahem how can be someone so incompetent and minus creative holding such a position??? It became so clear as the term "cool" came into place that the game was created in the marceting office and was dictated from their on downwards.
BG3 should be political incorrect at maximum also...
"Bioware has told us that in Dragon Age 2, when you press a button, something AWESOME happens.
So I thought: Why not collect all the AWESOME stuff that happens when you press a button in this thread to serve as a guide for players to make sure that they wont miss any of the AWESOMENESS. Please add your own.
When pressing the "W" button on my keyboard, Hawke moves forward! AWESOME!
When pressing my left mouse button on a new dungeon entrance I havent visited before, It is revealed that it is one among a dozen entrances to a dungeon I am already familiar with. AWESOME!