There's an interesting parallel to cell phone plans. You either have the monthly payment plan or a pay-as-you-go pre-paid plan. Since WoW is loosing popularity, the future may be in the DLC approach.
There's another way to look at it, though: sometimes it's better to let a fictional world "die" at its peak, rather than let it churn out increasingly poor narratives just to perpetuate its own existence. Look at Joss Whedon's early career - the first time I watched "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", I was there from pilot to finale, but I never go past season 3 nowadays because I know it's almost entirely downhill from there.
I find your lack of taste disturbing. The first couple of seasons were way weaker than the later stuff, very monster-of-the-week.
I find your lack of taste disturbing. The first couple of seasons were way weaker than the later stuff, very monster-of-the-week.
Not when the later stuff includes Marti Noxon's incessant sexual assault issues, a penis monster, Spike getting defanged both literally and metaphorically before going Oedipal, Buffy getting into an abusive relationship that would be better suited for 90210, Dawn (just... Dawn), a final season that had no coherent storyline whatsoever (even the first season at least followed the arc of the Master's impending release from start to finish) and so on.
Sure, there were bright spots: season 5 had "The Body", season 6 had the musical and season 7 had "Normal Again". But on the whole... yeah, season 3 was the high point.
Personally, I HOPE that a Baldur's Gate 3 is being made, and is almost ready for release. I havent played BG or BG 2 for YEARS. BUT, I do remember how awesome they were, GREAT story, gameplay, ect. Also, considering how much better PC graphics are now-a-days. Just imagine, same amazing story, voice acting, and the enviroments, and FEEL of the game. BUT< using a new game engine, with awesome 3D graphics. Yea, I am REALLY keeping my fingers crossed for such a game to come out soon!
So we're agreed then? Baldur's Gate 3 will start a vampire slaying protagonist "Buffy". The magic number being "3" here because that was the best season (I'll have to watch that show on DVD some time).
You would like that BG3 is running on Diablo 3 engine? This Infinity has much to offer. For example look at new Planescape game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9CiS5L8zVM . This could be done with BG3 also.
Based on the added content alone to the EE I honestly don't think that the studio has the chops to give us Baldurs Gate 3. I read on a gamespot news article that Baldur's Gate 3 is very possible, and I think it would be a shame and a travesty to let this glorious IP sink to this kind of low.
Yes I really don't have faith that the developers can bring us a Baldurs Gate 3 - we'd all expect something even better than Baldurs Gate 2. With this developer, I really don't see that as a possibility. Not to mention Baldurs Gate 2 and 1 were built on an engine created over a decade ago. I don't want Baldurs Gate 3 to fall into the hands of a studio too scared to try something new, or too poor to bring a Dragon Age Origins kind of graphical experience.
I want Baldurs Gate 3 to be a next gen game, something epic, not a title crippled and mired to an outdated engine thanks to its predecessors, and unable to get the love it deserve because the current devs are too poor.
It's a great IP, and if they are able to make Baldurs Gate 3, I don't expect anything but a cash grab off an exploit of everyone's nostalga and trust in the brand.
OP apparently wants it to be made by a big budget studio, with modern graphics, and thinks it wouldn't be a cash grab. Most RPG games for the last 10 years have been cash grabs. The genre is all but dead, flooded with cash grabs. The only original, decent RPGs I've seen have been from small developer teams. Why? Because they actually care about doing a good job, it's the only way they can become bigger. The massive corporations don't care about the games they put out...bit of a cheap example, but Squeenix...They can't seem to stop slapping their hardcore fanbase in the face, destroying each franchise they ever had with a large number of sequels and spinoffs that they just churn out with no thought or effort. Black Isle wasn't big when they made BG 1 and 2, think we can all agree we loved those.
Dragon Age Origins was advertised as a 'spiritual successor' to Baldur's Gate. Talk about a cash grab. Sure, it had pretty graphics, but beyond that it was a generic RPG by subpar storytellers, with a handful of shallow characters.
Devs, please do not judge us all based on a handful of critics. We do not all want some flashy game with its entire budget tossed into the graphic designers. Many of us prefer the graphic design in BG1 and BG2 to the graphics in today's big budget games. Personally, I'd prefer you spend said budget on writing an excellent storyline, fully-fleshing out a great gameworld, filling it with interesting content, and interesting, complex, multi-faceted characters.
Personally, for me, the Baldur's Gate Saga is finished, the story told.
I wonder: People who wish for a Baldur's Gate 3 - do you actually want a continuation of the story of charname, or do you rather want just a game that feels as epic as Baldur's Gate (or both) ?
I agree, I think it's been told. If there is more to tell, by all means make Baldur's Gate 3. If not, make something new and call it something different.
To follow the slight derailment a little, DLC allows an earlier release of games and it extends the relevance of games. I just don't want to be hit up for credit card purchases in-game and, in RPG games, I don't want early stuff changed (I'm a completionist, a little).
It's a bit early to make a statement about the quality of Project Eternity.
Well, it's even earlier to make a statement about the quality of Baldur's Gate 3.
I do hope nobody wants the saga to be continued. At the very least there's simply no more levels to get to at this point... I always imagined Baldur's Gate 3 to be unrelated to the Bhaalspawn saga, just taking place on the Sword Coast, possibly with some cameos and references to the original games.
Basically, what people want is an "old school" isometric 2D party-based fantasy RPG.
I wonder: People who wish for a Baldur's Gate 3 - do you actually want a continuation of the story of charname, or do you rather want just a game that feels as epic as Baldur's Gate (or both) ?
As far as I'm concerned, CHARNAME's story is more or less over. I want a 2D isometric RPG that takes place in the Baldur's Gate region and has some ties to the previous entries. That, to me, is Baldur's Gate 3.
The newest D&D module is "Murder in Baldur's Gate" - it's meant to lead into the 4e/5e crossover event (The Sundering) and features "Abdel Adrian", Coran and is concerned with Bhaal's legacy. It also occurs over a hundred years after BG1/BG2.
So regardless of what Beamdog do "canon CHARNAME"'s story isn't finished, and nor is Bhaal's.
CHARNAME's story is definitely over in my opinion, but as "Murder in Baldur's Gate" proves there's still some story left in the saga of Bhaal and his offspring (and potentially their offspring). I would see BG3 exploring these stories with a bunch on new characters (though not neccessarily Bhaalspawn themselves).
In fact, i once played with the idea of running a FR campaign dealing with the aftermath of the games, and what happened to the remaining Bhaalspawn. The basic idea was that even the smallest spark can cause a forest fire, given the right fuel and conditions. While the vast majority of Bhaal's essence was lost (either by it being absorbed to create a divine CHARNAME or dispersed by the Solar at the end of the game) there was still some remaining in those Bhaalspawn not caught in the purge. Careful manupulation of those Bhaalspawn (and any offspring that they may have produced) could end up fueling Bhaal's rebirth.
The offspring was the important part for me. Surely the offspring of a child of Bhaal would contain the same taint as the parent. If so, where did it come from? Would the parent be giving up part of their own Bhaal essence to "infect" the child, essentially diluting the amount available? What about the fact that as a Bhaalspawn grew in strength, so did their divine powers. Did that mean that the amount of the essence of Bhaal within them was increasing? And finally, what would happen if two Bhaalspawn were involved and to produce an offspring?
I felt (and still feel) that these were interesting questions to ask, and to see where the answers would lead, be it in my own gaming group canon.
A story set during the Sundering (or just after, depending on when the game gets made) that in some way involves the legacy of the Bhaalspawn Wars could be almost anything. I would think it should have to do something with what's left of Bhaal's essence. But the author could invent most anything (as long as WotC approves). That works for me as "Baldur's Gate 3," i.e., it's a legitimate title as long as it CHARNAME's tale laid the foundation for that new story to unfold.
Actually, it would be neat if the story could be somewhat customizable according to info entered by the player about CHARNAME: race, gender, class, alignment, and the path taken re: deity vs. mortal. Maybe not in a major way, but enough to add a bit of extra flavor.
I wonder if new engine development is a possibility. This could be a licensing issue (i.e. beamdog/overhaul may only be able to work with existing engines) and perhaps just too big a project, but I would love to see a good design for an isometric 2d engine that can break down the turn correctly (ToEE does this) and works for multi-player. The hitch is that you have to wait for each player to take their turn which could get boring, but then isn't that the way PnP works? It's just a thought, and turn-based mode could always be turned off (as it can now).
Based on the added content alone to the EE I honestly don't think that the studio has the chops to give us Baldurs Gate 3.
Personally, I love what they have done with the new content in BG:EE. To me, the new characters fit in perfectly and bring in some fresh air without disrupting the original experience. Not sure what to make of the Black Pits, but it's fun for a quick fix on the go. I like the new areas/miniplots in the main game.
I really, really, hope they make a BG3 that's true to its predecessors. They have certainly demonstrated that they can match its style in writing. That's not so much a matter of huge budget (although that couldn't hurt, obviously), but more of talent. There are many big budget productions with amazing graphics but lackluster storytelling.
I don't care at all about "new gen" graphics engines and find 3D (most of the time) distracting from the rp experience. I love BG in it's simple 2D splendor and prefer this over an uninteresting game with buffed up graphics anytime. I wouldn't want to miss the iconic portrait bar either. Most games with a strong focus on graphics tend to be kind of underwhelming in the story/immersion department. Take NWN for example. Many fan created modules were better than the original campaign. There is only so much development time and it seems it can go either to story or graphics (there are very few examples where both were great). I sure hope they choose story and stick to the tools available.
Today's games in general, rpg's in particular have entirely too much invested in how pretty it looks, because in every forum I followed during the years after bg2 & ToB, people complained that they wanted pretty graphics. Well they got their wish. So instead of buying complex, plot driven & lengthy story, they got flashy graphics and crappy story. People who knock dragon age are a bit too fussy in my opinion. DA:O was a wonderful game but I respect their decision to hate on it. I hope for a compromise. Get back to rpg's ACTUALLY telling a story, with slightly better graphics than the BG series was done in. The fact that there are still so many fans out there to make BG:EE a success and some new fans who are now enjoying the wonder that was BG, makes me think that it's story that matters and there seems to be a yearning for more of the same.
If there was ever a time for a BG 3 then it's this decade. With the sundering we have a returnd to the FG flavour created by Ed Greenwood. This because of a switch in the mindset at Wizards to not try to create background themselves when they have the creator and many other very skilled writers already available.
I think BG was so succesfull because the story was very good and tied in to the FG people already knew. I was super excited to talk to Elminster and see Drizzt for example, while still being able to play the game in different ways.
I found the whole "graphics before story" evolution that followed a sad evolution. All those trailers shouting they knew what players wanted and then ending up with storylines children could write.
Neverwinter MMORPG is the perfect example of how they abuse a franchise to justify the budget going only to some super duper graphics and then claim you'll feel at home at the FR world.
My dream would be an official BG 3, tied into the sundering, on the project eternity engine. They already have the scenario: Murder at Baldurs Gate.
My dream would be an official BG 3, tied into the sundering, on the project eternity engine. They already have the scenario: Murder at Baldurs Gate.
SPOILERS FOR MURDER AT BALDUR'S GATE
You've been warned...
I'd love to do BG3 -- or another game -- set during the events of the Sundering, but given the identity of the person who actually gets murdered at Baldur's Gate, using MaBG as the basis for an official BG3 (which I presume would feature CHARNAME, or at least be reflective of CHARNAME's previous adventures) is, uh, let's say tricky.
Yeah it's safe to say that CHARNAME wont be continued, but it would be an excellent place to start from epecially with the statue of the beloved ranger in the background ;-)
Am I the only one with his fingers and toes crossed hoping that some day we'll get a fish slapped in our faces as an E3 trailer appears like the way Star Wars Battlefront appeared? I personally have been wanting for a Baldur's Gate 3 every since I played BG, BG2, BG: ToB and BG:EE. I cannot say that the idea of it being made now was a bad one but it'd certainly would be difficult to make it appealing for a larger audience OUTSIDE of these forums including those that seem to also express their worries about it on here too.
I think that BG and BG2 were amazing games. Great story, character, looks, playability. They had it all. If they made a BG3 very similar to them but as new story and a few tweaks, i would be a happy man. I would be very unhappy if it were made into a Neverwinter Nights online MMO crap that exists. I would also not be happy if they did to BG what was done to Xcom. The new one is not half as enjoyable or clever or even feel right. It is a crappy console style game which is desperately thin and quite boring. We don't need sharp new graphics and engines, they are nice as long as the game remains rich and deep but they are of secondary importance. If you were going to compare games to novels, it would be easy to pick which is a moving and deep book you're sorry to get to the end of and a piece of rubbish beach read you buy for mindless sunbathing. I will always remember 'Heya, it's me Imoen' as I got into BG, the first step to being enthralled!
Personally, I don't think graphics are very important as well. I think games these days seem to underestimate people's abilities to use their imaginations; maybe it allows the game devs to sell to more people. Not saying that some improvements are bad, but cutting edge graphics would definitely affect how big the world can be and how much exploration can be done. Given more content and a richer and deeper storyline or better graphics, I would definitely prefer the former. And if we want top-down strategic gameplay, great 3D graphics is gonna be wasted anyway.
Good graphics might detract from the roleplaying experience too. I can't think of an example for graphics, but take full voice-acting for example; I didn't enjoy picking a name and then hearing myself being called nothing but "the Warden", "Hawke", and "Shepard". In BG2 many of the important conversations were voiced, but they'd just skip over your name; still I could imagine them calling me by name because of the words in the text; and written text is something modern RPGs seem to want to do away with completely.
Regarding Overhaul's small dev status - I think small dev is really the best way forward. Frankly I'd be worried if a big-time developer takes over the project, because a big-time developer would probably be more attuned to what's popular among consumers today, and frankly I don't need BG3 to be a commercial success - I just want the game to stay true to its roots. And who knows, in the current environment of "modern RPGs" it may even end up changing the current gaming climate. I don't think BG3 needs "Hollywood" cutscenes, "Hollywood" action sequences, "Hollywood" melodrama, "Hollywood" music, and "Hollywood" NPCs, and I think those are the kinds of things that a big-time developer would add to BG3. (Actually I thought the BG1 EE NPCs already came quite close to being too "Hollywood" - not ALL the characters should somehow pour out their whole dramatic life story for you justifying/explaining all the things that they've done - but I don't think many game devs nowadays would fare better in this regard.)
Personally, I just hope that, if/when Overhaul does BG3, they stay away from (1) "Hollywood" cutscenes with high fantasy happy "epic" music, (2) "Hollywood" NPCs, and (3) predictable exploration/plot progression (like NWN's 1 major quest each at North, South, East, West directions, or DAO's go to 3 locations to pick up 1 of 2 sets of followers then prepare for battle royale). Apart from that, I actually trust that Overhaul knows what to do for BG3.
It's a bit early to make a statement about the quality of Project Eternity.
I think it does have huge potential of becoming a game that stands its own ground. So I hope Project Eternity will be Project Eternity.
Not a game that is defined by how far it can match up to Baldur's Gate. But instead a game to which other games must accept being compared to.
Personally, for me, the Baldur's Gate Saga is finished, the story told.
I wonder: People who wish for a Baldur's Gate 3 - do you actually want a continuation of the story of charname, or do you rather want just a game that feels as epic as Baldur's Gate (or both) ?
I would be just as happy if it was of similar quality and complexity as Baldur's Gate games, preferably also D&D. If it followed another Child of Bhaal that would also be cool.
Comments
Sure, there were bright spots: season 5 had "The Body", season 6 had the musical and season 7 had "Normal Again". But on the whole... yeah, season 3 was the high point.
Yea, I am REALLY keeping my fingers crossed for such a game to come out soon!
This Infinity has much to offer.
For example look at new Planescape game
This could be done with BG3 also.
Dragon Age Origins was advertised as a 'spiritual successor' to Baldur's Gate. Talk about a cash grab. Sure, it had pretty graphics, but beyond that it was a generic RPG by subpar storytellers, with a handful of shallow characters.
Devs, please do not judge us all based on a handful of critics. We do not all want some flashy game with its entire budget tossed into the graphic designers. Many of us prefer the graphic design in BG1 and BG2 to the graphics in today's big budget games.
Personally, I'd prefer you spend said budget on writing an excellent storyline, fully-fleshing out a great gameworld, filling it with interesting content, and interesting, complex, multi-faceted characters.
I agree, I think it's been told. If there is more to tell, by all means make Baldur's Gate 3. If not, make something new and call it something different.
I do hope nobody wants the saga to be continued. At the very least there's simply no more levels to get to at this point... I always imagined Baldur's Gate 3 to be unrelated to the Bhaalspawn saga, just taking place on the Sword Coast, possibly with some cameos and references to the original games.
Basically, what people want is an "old school" isometric 2D party-based fantasy RPG.
So regardless of what Beamdog do "canon CHARNAME"'s story isn't finished, and nor is Bhaal's.
In fact, i once played with the idea of running a FR campaign dealing with the aftermath of the games, and what happened to the remaining Bhaalspawn. The basic idea was that even the smallest spark can cause a forest fire, given the right fuel and conditions. While the vast majority of Bhaal's essence was lost (either by it being absorbed to create a divine CHARNAME or dispersed by the Solar at the end of the game) there was still some remaining in those Bhaalspawn not caught in the purge. Careful manupulation of those Bhaalspawn (and any offspring that they may have produced) could end up fueling Bhaal's rebirth.
The offspring was the important part for me. Surely the offspring of a child of Bhaal would contain the same taint as the parent. If so, where did it come from? Would the parent be giving up part of their own Bhaal essence to "infect" the child, essentially diluting the amount available? What about the fact that as a Bhaalspawn grew in strength, so did their divine powers. Did that mean that the amount of the essence of Bhaal within them was increasing? And finally, what would happen if two Bhaalspawn were involved and to produce an offspring?
I felt (and still feel) that these were interesting questions to ask, and to see where the answers would lead, be it in my own gaming group canon.
Actually, it would be neat if the story could be somewhat customizable according to info entered by the player about CHARNAME: race, gender, class, alignment, and the path taken re: deity vs. mortal. Maybe not in a major way, but enough to add a bit of extra flavor.
I wonder if new engine development is a possibility. This could be a licensing issue (i.e. beamdog/overhaul may only be able to work with existing engines) and perhaps just too big a project, but I would love to see a good design for an isometric 2d engine that can break down the turn correctly (ToEE does this) and works for multi-player. The hitch is that you have to wait for each player to take their turn which could get boring, but then isn't that the way PnP works? It's just a thought, and turn-based mode could always be turned off (as it can now).
I really, really, hope they make a BG3 that's true to its predecessors. They have certainly demonstrated that they can match its style in writing. That's not so much a matter of huge budget (although that couldn't hurt, obviously), but more of talent. There are many big budget productions with amazing graphics but lackluster storytelling.
I don't care at all about "new gen" graphics engines and find 3D (most of the time) distracting from the rp experience. I love BG in it's simple 2D splendor and prefer this over an uninteresting game with buffed up graphics anytime. I wouldn't want to miss the iconic portrait bar either.
I think BG was so succesfull because the story was very good and tied in to the FG people already knew. I was super excited to talk to Elminster and see Drizzt for example, while still being able to play the game in different ways.
I found the whole "graphics before story" evolution that followed a sad evolution. All those trailers shouting they knew what players wanted and then ending up with storylines children could write.
Neverwinter MMORPG is the perfect example of how they abuse a franchise to justify the budget going only to some super duper graphics and then claim you'll feel at home at the FR world.
My dream would be an official BG 3, tied into the sundering, on the project eternity engine. They already have the scenario: Murder at Baldurs Gate.
You've been warned...
I'd love to do BG3 -- or another game -- set during the events of the Sundering, but given the identity of the person who actually gets murdered at Baldur's Gate, using MaBG as the basis for an official BG3 (which I presume would feature CHARNAME, or at least be reflective of CHARNAME's previous adventures) is, uh, let's say tricky.
Good graphics might detract from the roleplaying experience too. I can't think of an example for graphics, but take full voice-acting for example; I didn't enjoy picking a name and then hearing myself being called nothing but "the Warden", "Hawke", and "Shepard". In BG2 many of the important conversations were voiced, but they'd just skip over your name; still I could imagine them calling me by name because of the words in the text; and written text is something modern RPGs seem to want to do away with completely.
Regarding Overhaul's small dev status - I think small dev is really the best way forward. Frankly I'd be worried if a big-time developer takes over the project, because a big-time developer would probably be more attuned to what's popular among consumers today, and frankly I don't need BG3 to be a commercial success - I just want the game to stay true to its roots. And who knows, in the current environment of "modern RPGs" it may even end up changing the current gaming climate. I don't think BG3 needs "Hollywood" cutscenes, "Hollywood" action sequences, "Hollywood" melodrama, "Hollywood" music, and "Hollywood" NPCs, and I think those are the kinds of things that a big-time developer would add to BG3. (Actually I thought the BG1 EE NPCs already came quite close to being too "Hollywood" - not ALL the characters should somehow pour out their whole dramatic life story for you justifying/explaining all the things that they've done - but I don't think many game devs nowadays would fare better in this regard.)
Personally, I just hope that, if/when Overhaul does BG3, they stay away from (1) "Hollywood" cutscenes with high fantasy happy "epic" music, (2) "Hollywood" NPCs, and (3) predictable exploration/plot progression (like NWN's 1 major quest each at North, South, East, West directions, or DAO's go to 3 locations to pick up 1 of 2 sets of followers then prepare for battle royale). Apart from that, I actually trust that Overhaul knows what to do for BG3.