@CamDawg Why do I get the feeling there's going to be code in the update/BG2:EE that will do horrible, HORRIBLE things to human mages named Malcolm? :P
I'm not trying to argue for leaking the patch- that was just a 'test the waters' idea- but to those of you saying that Beamdog would be in trouble in any way if it was leaked is pretty untenable. If it isn't linked to them they can be held in no way legally responsible for it no matter how hard the lawyers glare.
Realistically it would probably have very little impact on negotiations, also, as at the end of the day it will be down to money like everything else. I suspect that by this point they either know they're going to be able to buy/secure the IP, or they know they won't and they'll be relying on the new owners' good will to continue. All speculation of course, but most of this stuff is actually worked out very quickly, at which point it just goes down to crossing t's and dotting i's and trading stories about space hamsters.
And on that note I'd like to urge Beamdog that if they're looking at purchasing (part of) the rights from Atari that they also look at buying the rest of the rights from all of their respective owners at the same time. If money is an issue I know many of us would be happy to donate to a kickstarter just to know that Beamdog owns all rights to the distribution and development with no one else holding the leash and no further contract issues down the road. I'd be willing to donate a considerable amount of money to see that happen.
Obviously they can't buy D&D, but Wizards has been very nice working with them so far (by the looks of things) so that part is a non-issue.
I believe in one of the FAQ threads it is stated that some involved in BG didn't want kickstarter used, and so Beamdog/Overhaul Games are honoring that request.
I believe in one of the FAQ threads it is stated that some involved in BG didn't want kickstarter used, and so Beamdog/Overhaul Games are honoring that request.
The only reason I can see for not wanting kickstarter help is that someone wants to choke off a source of funding.
Seriously. Who is against the idea of kickstarter funding, and why?
I'm gonna be a real sad puppy if there's no BG2:EE, as well as the dampening effect this has had on the modding community, which was just starting to work up some steam again (on a nearly 15 year old game, how miraculous was that to start with?)
The only reason I can see for not wanting kickstarter help is that someone wants to choke off a source of funding.
Seriously. Who is against the idea of kickstarter funding, and why?
I'm gonna be a real sad puppy if there's no BG2:EE, as well as the dampening effect this has had on the modding community, which was just starting to work up some steam again (on a nearly 15 year old game, how miraculous was that to start with?)
Somewhere in these marvelous forums, (you can look if you want or just trust me) a developer mentioned that Kickstarter is not an option as a source of funding because of their contract with either Atari/Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro/BioWare/ or EA.
So if Beamdog/Overhaul used the crowd-funding option they're essentially breaking contract and then there will definitely NOT be a BG2:EE due to legal obligations and lawyers b#@$h slapping the hell out of our small development team. So in answering your question about who is against Kickstarter: myself, Overhaul, and anyone else who wants to see a BG2:EE someday.
I agree with ya that BG2:EE should be a possibility and I believe that their will be someday. It's just going to take a little bit longer due to Overhaul protecting themselves legally during this lawyer smackdown.
Wiggles you made rather a lot of assumptions there. Just because Overhaul may or may not be contractually bound to not use crowd-sourced funding doesn't mean they're against Kickstarter. Those are two very different things. Also, considering the very situation we're in right now those contracts are all being broken. What really matters is who agrees to what in the new contracts.
The one good reason I've ever heard not to use Kickstarter is that some game companies feel like their investors grow a little to entitled after donating and think they deserve to call the shots in game development. I have, indeed, seen this happen so I can understand the point. On the other hand, though, most BG fans are a bit older and more mature than your average gamer and I think that if the opportunity came up it would be a good one for Beamdog to take.
@rathlord - not sure if you are being pedantic or merely not understanding what @Wiggles was saying. Allow me to rephrase:
So in answering your question about who is against Kickstarter (For the purposes of making BG2:EE or BG3 at all): myself, Overhaul, and anyone else who wants to see BG2:EE someday.
It's a small clarification, but one that I feel confident Wiggles meant.
As for the contract being up in the air, we none of us knows how THAT is going to fall out. it might be that Beamdog ends up with contracting, in which case they may still be contractually liable not to use outside funding because of the contract with Hasbro or WotC. It could also end up that someone else ends up with the contract and then sub-contracts with Beamdog since they have already done a lot of work. Same thing applies.
Personally, I'd love to contribute "If it would help". But based on what @Wiggles and others have posted, I get the feeling that isn't on the table at the moment. And therefore I am firmly against anything that might cause further legal snafoos. If/when Kickstarter no longer falls into that category, GREAT! Sign me up. Till then, I am against it (for this project) as well.
@the_spyder perhaps I did misunderstand @wiggles but it was still badly phrased. Even "for the purposes of BG" not being contractually able to and being "against" it are two very different things. I'm not trying to be pedantic about it but those are two inherently different things and should be represented as such in my humble opinion.
I completely agree about the contract. What you're saying is exactly what I'm saying- we might as well at least toss about the *idea* of a kickstarter because after the fallout of this it could work out in any number of ways. It seems likely that they'll be drawing up all of the contracts again, though, as in any case one of the signing parties will be gone and that will void them all. I do feel confident, though, that it if, indeed, they are being contractually locked out of crowd sourcing that it is Atari. From all reports WotC has been really kind working with Beamdog and Hasbro probably just doesn't have anything at stake in that decision (they'd have no reason to make them agree to that). However, since Atari is the company most impacted by things like funding and profits they would more than likely be the ones involved in that.
I did in fact word that poorly looking back at it now. Sorry about that. Kickstarter obviously has its uses, but as of right now with the information we're given, Kickstarter isn't an option yet.
But back to the topic since I derailed it a bit, leaking the patch would severely hurt the developers. I can't even but it in words how @#$%ed up everything would be if the patch was leaked while still under contract.
Releasing an unofficial patch afterwords could have the exact same negative consequences as leaking it now, if not worse. But you're probably right, and I think they've made it pretty clear they're not going to.
Regarding the Kickstarter idea, as fas as I know, all that has been said is that they will not do a kickstarter because someone, either Hasbro or Atari, did not like that idea...
@rathlord - I don't think that leaking the patch is a good idea full stop. Regardless of any legal ramifications, it might still lead to them getting a name for themselves in the industry as the type of people who would do that. Even if it were leaked by a "third party", there would still be a question in Publishers minds as to how it got out. That type of questionable business practices can damage a companies future business prospects. So even if no one got 'caught' doing it, the fact that it got out could drive away business from their door step. I see this as the most likely outcome of a leaked patch and do not wish that on Beamdog as I enjoy what I have seen of their projects and hope to see more.
I don't think they were quite finished with the patch when they got the order to stop work. There's a big difference between "almost finished" and "ready to release", when we're talking about computer code.
My guess is that the patch wasn't ready for release anyway when they were forced to abandon it (hopefully temporarily.)
@minevese - do you have glowing eyes? Quick, take a picture of yourself with a flash camera and let us know. If your eyes are glowing red, then you are a Demon as well. A two-fer as it were.
Comments
Realistically it would probably have very little impact on negotiations, also, as at the end of the day it will be down to money like everything else. I suspect that by this point they either know they're going to be able to buy/secure the IP, or they know they won't and they'll be relying on the new owners' good will to continue. All speculation of course, but most of this stuff is actually worked out very quickly, at which point it just goes down to crossing t's and dotting i's and trading stories about space hamsters.
Obviously they can't buy D&D, but Wizards has been very nice working with them so far (by the looks of things) so that part is a non-issue.
I believe in one of the FAQ threads it is stated that some involved in BG didn't want kickstarter used, and so Beamdog/Overhaul Games are honoring that request.
Thank god there are no pictures of me from that time ...
Seriously. Who is against the idea of kickstarter funding, and why?
I'm gonna be a real sad puppy if there's no BG2:EE, as well as the dampening effect this has had on the modding community, which was just starting to work up some steam again (on a nearly 15 year old game, how miraculous was that to start with?)
So if Beamdog/Overhaul used the crowd-funding option they're essentially breaking contract and then there will definitely NOT be a BG2:EE due to legal obligations and lawyers b#@$h slapping the hell out of our small development team. So in answering your question about who is against Kickstarter: myself, Overhaul, and anyone else who wants to see a BG2:EE someday.
I agree with ya that BG2:EE should be a possibility and I believe that their will be someday. It's just going to take a little bit longer due to Overhaul protecting themselves legally during this lawyer smackdown.
Hope this helps.
The one good reason I've ever heard not to use Kickstarter is that some game companies feel like their investors grow a little to entitled after donating and think they deserve to call the shots in game development. I have, indeed, seen this happen so I can understand the point. On the other hand, though, most BG fans are a bit older and more mature than your average gamer and I think that if the opportunity came up it would be a good one for Beamdog to take.
As for the contract being up in the air, we none of us knows how THAT is going to fall out. it might be that Beamdog ends up with contracting, in which case they may still be contractually liable not to use outside funding because of the contract with Hasbro or WotC. It could also end up that someone else ends up with the contract and then sub-contracts with Beamdog since they have already done a lot of work. Same thing applies.
Personally, I'd love to contribute "If it would help". But based on what @Wiggles and others have posted, I get the feeling that isn't on the table at the moment. And therefore I am firmly against anything that might cause further legal snafoos. If/when Kickstarter no longer falls into that category, GREAT! Sign me up. Till then, I am against it (for this project) as well.
I completely agree about the contract. What you're saying is exactly what I'm saying- we might as well at least toss about the *idea* of a kickstarter because after the fallout of this it could work out in any number of ways. It seems likely that they'll be drawing up all of the contracts again, though, as in any case one of the signing parties will be gone and that will void them all. I do feel confident, though, that it if, indeed, they are being contractually locked out of crowd sourcing that it is Atari. From all reports WotC has been really kind working with Beamdog and Hasbro probably just doesn't have anything at stake in that decision (they'd have no reason to make them agree to that). However, since Atari is the company most impacted by things like funding and profits they would more than likely be the ones involved in that.
But back to the topic since I derailed it a bit, leaking the patch would severely hurt the developers. I can't even but it in words how @#$%ed up everything would be if the patch was leaked while still under contract.
All my personal opinion.
And John Milton's quote reads: Lawyers are the devil's ministry.
Although sometimes lawyers can positively save your job, your business and even your life.
A brilliant lawyer can make everything. The main thing is which side has a better lawyer. And I hope it's Beamdog.
My guess is that the patch wasn't ready for release anyway when they were forced to abandon it (hopefully temporarily.)
(joking... Totally joking... no offense intended)