Some people, like in previous threads I've seen, if they so desire to will talk around in circles all day long. Today its "well men are underdressed in fantasy too!", tomorrow it will be "well if you don't like it, don't read/watch/listen to it then!", the day after that will be "its only sexualized if you think about it that way!" and "why don't you do something about it then" and I'm willing to bet somewhere in the world a female dev is thinking about smashing her head into the wall for all the dramas and headaches that come with dealing with the fans of this kind of passion.
These are are all good arguments. Except the "why don't you do something about it then" would be kind of the opposite of the points of the other line. (Lets have a boxing match over who wares blue pants and who wares teal pants.) The market demand (particularly from publishing promoters) can be difficult for developers. A hand to GOG.com. Where can I find a text parser adventure around?
Fat people make some of the best ridiculous costumes. The portrayal comes out that way. In case you were wondering, that other person wasn't Wonderwoman, either (that's Proper noun, I'm sure she's a very special person anyway). You might not get the movie part, though. Maybe you could be a writer.
What I'm saying is keep that smut off of places it's not where people go to get it. That includes trendy clothing. And keep some of the paint for the barn.
Well...let's face it - these things we complain about are works of fiction. And in fiction, there's something called "artistic license" and "rule of cool" (meaning - it does not need to be correct in real life, as soon as it looks good).
We can fret and theorize about practicality of the armor shown in fiction, but let's not forget it's still fiction. I for one like good looking and beautiful artworks, even though I know that warrior women would not be as thin and graceful as the girls in artworks.
...aaand there are good depictions of medieval/fantasy/sci-fi too. Like this girl ...is still looking pretty, even though she is armored. (I don't know much, but I read somewhere, she won some Longsword fight championship.)
Would it be pleasing to see men with holes for their muscular nipples or sixpack abs to show? Or maybe armour that covers the chest and arms above the nipples, an uncovered chest, then a metal jockstrap (of a different colour to accentuate that area)? I bet that if you saw a game preview where nearly all the men wore that sort of armour, you'd think it was some kind of kink-focused game, rather than a normal adventure game. It would look ridiculous! And male players would get tired of looking it it, instead asking for 'plain armour pls... covers whole body'.
*Nablet the level 2 fighter with his chainmail, club +1 and medium shield walks out of the house. Infront of him stands the biggest woman he has ever seen, in a full plate +382 that must weight 5 tons*
Ursula (Plated woman) - You there! Are you perhaps Nablet? Nablet - Uhm, y-y-yes? Ursula - I'm an assassin, and there is a big bounty on your head!
*Nablet screams like a girl, standing completely still in horror*
Ursula - Now my dear nablet, get over here so i can bash your head in! Nablet - N...No! Ursula - Nablet come on now, be a friendly little bhaalspawn and get over here. You see i can't move because of this huge armor. And the boy i hire to push me around on the wagon had to go on the toilet.
*Nablet runs away*
Ursula - Damn....
*Egon the wagon pusher walks up to Ursula*
Egon - Told you to ditch the armor. Ursula - Shut up you fool! Hurry and get the wagon, he went that way!
In hot climate, or strenuous activity, you often want as much skin bared as possible, so you put the armour pieces on the most important areas.
I think the barbarians from Icewind dale want a talk with you.
You need to show your nipples when it's freezing cold, and if your arms aren't bare you're not doing it right. Oooh to feel the snow and ice pierce the skin on your stomach, it's almost like having a dwarf female scrub your back.
There are some (though far fewer) examples of men being depicted with the same armor-fails that occur with women in fantasy art. In general armor on guys is more realistic, there are very few "ab windows" (male equivalent of "boob window" armor described by LadyRhian), and almost all male clothing is sensible. I've been browsing through @LadyRhian's great "too many pictures" thread for a human thief, and have seen 3 main types of male armor fails (excluding the shirtless look).
1) Breastplate, helmet and leg armor are all present and correct. But the poor guy has absolutely nothing on his shoulders or arms, not even a shirt. Generally done to accentuate musculature. It's common but nowhere near as egregious as most female fantasy armour.
2) Appropriate shoulder or arm armor with no attempt at torso coverage. The only historical context in which this sort of armour existed was with certain types of Roman Gladiator. A "manica" or sleeve was often used with a bare torso, but this was done to force certain strategies on gladiators and to allow for a bloody display at the end. This is similar in context to a lot of the female armor fails: they want to imply a warrior-ish look with a bit of protection but still show off some flesh. It'd put it almost in the same category as the chainmail bikini.
3) The bloke has a shirt or jacket (or at least a waistcoat), but appears to be having a button malfunction because his abs are hanging out. Elves are particular offenders in this category. Apart from being shirtless, this is the only real time clothing is portrayed unrealistically on males.
So, while male armor is more likely to be realistic, males are also much more likely to just have no clothes on their top half. Male armor is more likely to just be missing large chunks than to be curved or shaped to accentuate physique.
Men tend to be shown more often with full coverage armour. Even when women have heavy armour, it's usually full of holes.
We may see a barbarian man with seemingly invincible skin... but have we seen a man in metal armour with enormous gaps? How often? Women tend to be shown with lots of cleavage (and almost always C - DD cup or higher...). Would it be pleasing to see men with holes for their muscular nipples or sixpack abs to show? Or maybe armour that covers the chest and arms above the nipples, an uncovered chest, then a metal jockstrap (of a different colour to accentuate that area)? I bet that if you saw a game preview where nearly all the men wore that sort of armour, you'd think it was some kind of kink-focused game, rather than a normal adventure game. It would look ridiculous! And male players would get tired of looking it it, instead asking for 'plain armour pls... covers whole body'.
I also wish warrior women were shown with more muscles. Some stockier women would be nice too. Not all tall and thin, eh? Most'd probably snap in the wind. XD
None of the women I know would like to see cut-out armor for man's nipples to show off, the difference between men and women is old news, men are more sexually stimulated by vision, women tend to be aroused by the man's demeanor and social status(which is always relative).
I wonder how many people would like FANTASY art to be abolished with only REALISM allowed. I personally prefer FANTASY art with exaggerated bodies of both men and women, just because I don't wanna play a wimpy guy as much as I don't want to have ugly women in my party, and yes I like big boobs so that's a plus. This is my stance for FANTASY art and it has nothing to do with my behavior in reality e.g. my behavior towards women.
And the pictures in this thread remind me of the good'ol Portraits vs. P(o )( o)traits
Fantasy art's depiction of female warriors is often funny or completely absurd imho. Because it's fantasy, I can see female barbarians, archers, druids and spellcasters (except clerics) opting for minimal attire, but it's unrealistic for fighters to leave their abdomens or breasts exposed. Personally, I'm also not a fan of "cleavage plate". With few exceptions, women generally wore armor that had been made for a man or boy. The Greeks (mostly nobility/high ranks) has sculpted breastplates, but no one in their right mind would use large twin protrusions to channel enemies' weapons up to the neck and throat.
I do sympathize with female gamers who feel demeaned or objectified. My suggestion is to vote with your $- refuse to support objectionable games/art/products (encourage your friends to do the same) and write to the heads of offending companies. These days, most companies will do what's best for their bottom line.
@gcg-on the contrary, the Greeks used breastplates, backplates, helmets, greaves, bracers and shields in the Bronze age.
300 is a perfect example of stupid in fictional armor. I repel your arrows with my abs of steel! The 2nd photo is a more realistic representation of what Spartans wore.
on the contrary, the Greeks used breastplates, backplates, helmets, greaves, bracers and shields in the Bronze age.
They were uncommon, aside from the helmets and (arm and leg) bracers and shields, and the legs and arms were typically mostly bare. As well as most of the upper body. Competitive unarmed combat was typically done nude.
Not all ancient Greek hoplites necessarily wore full armor. Each soldier provided his own armor, so there was considerable variation. The minimum was often a helmet, shield and spear, with padded cloth armor being the most common torso protection. Bronze breastplates, scaled armors, bracers and greaves are all known, but would have been expensive and limited to wealthier soldiers.
With Phalanx formations it was the head and lower legs that most often needed armor, as the neck to the knee was usually covered by shields. This was a bit of a quirk of the combat tactics and formations of the time though.
@Xanar (re. picture) Maybe Byzantium. The full plate covering doesn't look functional, certainly not for regular use. A spear that would snap like a twig, and no noticeable reserve sword, and a shield that he could use for an anchor, if it wasn't made of aluminium. He seemed to go for the spandex plate. He could have used some sandals.
@DancingBugbear, @Corvino... I agree with both of you. Guess I was unclear. My comment to gcg was simply to point out that full armor was not a medieval invention (though full plate with 100% coverage was). The other comment was solely at 300 being unrealistic. That 1st pic is Gerard Butler who portrayed Leonidas. The elite troops that escorted King Leonidas would have had better-than-average armor and he (as a royal) most definitely would have. The Persians had numbers, but the Greeks had the superior tech.
The Spartans are a bit of an outlier of the ancient Greek populace. They were most definitely a warrior society, with a huge amount of their culture at the time dedicated to the training of troops and veneration of war. Athens had a democracy, politics, philosophy and art, but the Spartans had loads of tough, crazy bastards willing to die for their city-state. They were generally better armored than many non-Greek opponents of the time as well, but mainly they were the ones no-one wanted to fight.
10 -> 12 was like.. going from Baldur's Gate to Lionheart, the exception is that Lionheart is actually very good at the start of the game.
ok....firstly: @Night_Watch i will murder you with a spoon when you least expect spoon based murder.
that -thing- wasnt a final fatasy game, it was final fantasy 11 if you made it strictly multiplayer, and the license board...you have to work for PERMEATION to use a sword? or magic? how does wailing on a dog make me better at magic? its as bad as final fantasy 7.
and @SionIV its more like going from baldurs gate....to playing a human arcane archer in baldurs gate dark alliance
10 -> 12 was like.. going from Baldur's Gate to Lionheart, the exception is that Lionheart is actually very good at the start of the game.
ok....firstly: @Night_Watch i will murder you with a spoon when you least expect spoon based murder.
that -thing- wasnt a final fatasy game, it was final fantasy 11 if you made it strictly multiplayer, and the license board...you have to work for PERMEATION to use a sword? or magic? how does wailing on a dog make me better at magic? its as bad as final fantasy 7.
and @SionIV its more like going from baldurs gate....to playing a human arcane archer in baldurs gate dark alliance
You're insulting Dark Alliance now, a perfectly fine game for the console.
Comments
The market demand (particularly from publishing promoters) can be difficult for developers. A hand to GOG.com. Where can I find a text parser adventure around?
Fat people make some of the best ridiculous costumes. The portrayal comes out that way. In case you were wondering, that other person wasn't Wonderwoman, either (that's Proper noun, I'm sure she's a very special person anyway). You might not get the movie part, though. Maybe you could be a writer.
What I'm saying is keep that smut off of places it's not where people go to get it. That includes trendy clothing. And keep some of the paint for the barn.
We can fret and theorize about practicality of the armor shown in fiction, but let's not forget it's still fiction. I for one like good looking and beautiful artworks, even though I know that warrior women would not be as thin and graceful as the girls in artworks.
...aaand there are good depictions of medieval/fantasy/sci-fi too. Like this girl
...is still looking pretty, even though she is armored.
(I don't know much, but I read somewhere, she won some Longsword fight championship.)
*Ahem* i apologize for that, i dont mean it...but i kinda do...i hate final fantasy 12 with a burning passion
but on the topic of women in fantasy this is by far my new favorite fantasy woman image
[img/]http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tumblr_lqcbht8A7x1r1g5m2o1_1280.jpeg[/mg]
but if you want over the top woman armor just like men look to warhammer!
[img/]http://bluetablepainting.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/1275122010118.jpg[img] oh your so pretty and sexy.....dont kill me im not a heretic i swear!!
Ursula (Plated woman) - You there! Are you perhaps Nablet?
Nablet - Uhm, y-y-yes?
Ursula - I'm an assassin, and there is a big bounty on your head!
*Nablet screams like a girl, standing completely still in horror*
Ursula - Now my dear nablet, get over here so i can bash your head in!
Nablet - N...No!
Ursula - Nablet come on now, be a friendly little bhaalspawn and get over here. You see i can't move because of this huge armor. And the boy i hire to push me around on the wagon had to go on the toilet.
*Nablet runs away*
Ursula - Damn....
*Egon the wagon pusher walks up to Ursula*
Egon - Told you to ditch the armor.
Ursula - Shut up you fool! Hurry and get the wagon, he went that way!
That usually girls aren't really armored does not bother me as much as when a warrior woman is wearing nothing, save bikinis IN TUNDRA!
You need to show your nipples when it's freezing cold, and if your arms aren't bare you're not doing it right. Oooh to feel the snow and ice pierce the skin on your stomach, it's almost like having a dwarf female scrub your back.
NAKED IN MINUS 30 WE UNITE!
1) Breastplate, helmet and leg armor are all present and correct. But the poor guy has absolutely nothing on his shoulders or arms, not even a shirt. Generally done to accentuate musculature. It's common but nowhere near as egregious as most female fantasy armour.
2) Appropriate shoulder or arm armor with no attempt at torso coverage. The only historical context in which this sort of armour existed was with certain types of Roman Gladiator. A "manica" or sleeve was often used with a bare torso, but this was done to force certain strategies on gladiators and to allow for a bloody display at the end. This is similar in context to a lot of the female armor fails: they want to imply a warrior-ish look with a bit of protection but still show off some flesh. It'd put it almost in the same category as the chainmail bikini.
3) The bloke has a shirt or jacket (or at least a waistcoat), but appears to be having a button malfunction because his abs are hanging out. Elves are particular offenders in this category. Apart from being shirtless, this is the only real time clothing is portrayed unrealistically on males.
So, while male armor is more likely to be realistic, males are also much more likely to just have no clothes on their top half. Male armor is more likely to just be missing large chunks than to be curved or shaped to accentuate physique.
The chest gets a lot of exertion, and can use a lot of cooling. Bracers were some of the original armour.
Some like it hot. Some call them lazy.
Good, my vineyard needs tending to.
Have fun in your central heated office. I will, because I'm naked.
None of the women I know would like to see cut-out armor for man's nipples to show off, the difference between men and women is old news, men are more sexually stimulated by vision, women tend to be aroused by the man's demeanor and social status(which is always relative).
I wonder how many people would like FANTASY art to be abolished with only REALISM allowed. I personally prefer FANTASY art with exaggerated bodies of both men and women, just because I don't wanna play a wimpy guy as much as I don't want to have ugly women in my party, and yes I like big boobs so that's a plus. This is my stance for FANTASY art and it has nothing to do with my behavior in reality e.g. my behavior towards women.
And the pictures in this thread remind me of the good'ol Portraits vs. P(o )( o)traits
I do sympathize with female gamers who feel demeaned or objectified. My suggestion is to vote with your $- refuse to support objectionable games/art/products (encourage your friends to do the same) and write to the heads of offending companies. These days, most companies will do what's best for their bottom line.
@gcg-on the contrary, the Greeks used breastplates, backplates, helmets, greaves, bracers and shields in the Bronze age.
300 is a perfect example of stupid in fictional armor. I repel your arrows with my abs of steel! The 2nd photo is a more realistic representation of what Spartans wore.
With Phalanx formations it was the head and lower legs that most often needed armor, as the neck to the knee was usually covered by shields. This was a bit of a quirk of the combat tactics and formations of the time though.
10 -> 12 was like.. going from Baldur's Gate to Lionheart, the exception is that Lionheart is actually very good at the start of the game.
that -thing- wasnt a final fatasy game, it was final fantasy 11 if you made it strictly multiplayer, and the license board...you have to work for PERMEATION to use a sword? or magic? how does wailing on a dog make me better at magic? its as bad as final fantasy 7.
and @SionIV its more like going from baldurs gate....to playing a human arcane archer in baldurs gate dark alliance