@Treyolen I prefer the DRM that BG:EE has currently, at least for the initial release. It's unobtrusive and doesn't prevent you from installing on multiple computers. My only "problem" with it is that you have to go through Apple to get it on your Mac or iPad. It would be much better, I think, if you could also install your PC copy on those other platforms instead of having to buy it three times.
@Aosaw "Walled Garden" is a term used to describe Apple products. You trade the freedom of being able to install anything you want for the security of knowing everything you do install has been vetted by Apple and will "just work." This approach is loved by some and hated by some. But it is an apt description of the Apple experience.
I'm really against corporate control, whether it's DRM or the walled garden. Windows 8 is trying to make that same move. I've seen it, tried it, and hated it. It's completely counter intuitive to how we have used computers. I'm glad that I'm good enough with Linux and various other open source applications to be able to switch my computers over as needed. The only thing holding me on Windows is gaming. Much like games that use DRM, Microsoft will lose my money from tightening the leash, instead of getting more of my money. Luckily more and more games are starting to cross over, many other games will work on WINE for now, and Nvidia/ATI driver support is finally improving. Plus I should be able to keep my Windows 7 running for a long time, just like my Windows XP is still running.
I would still love to see some discussion about the merits and/or failings of the business model used by GOG and the Humble Bundle. That is where we can really address the issue of revenue in relation to DRM.
Well, I don't have all the answers as to the why but as for the merits and failings of the business model used by these companies, I think the results are obvious. They're not bigtime players and they likely won't be because they're not selling AAA titles. They're focusing on a smaller secondary market and they just won't capture the revenue that companies selling the big new releases will. That said, I think certainly there is a place for companies like this and they can remain profitable. Were I investing in tech companies, I'd certainly look at them. However, I don't think they can ever grow to the same level as other businesses because of this model. There is plenty of demand but they can't sell at the same price.
Of course, if I were investing in video game studios, I'd be very wary of one which didn't employ some kind of protection. There's obviously a connection between size and scope of the games a business produces and the level of DRM they employ. I'd also be skeptical of the UBI experience too because unless the industry adopts an Apple model, you can't have that intrusive of a DRM that turns customers off. Obviously, companies like CD Projekt Red, a moderately-sized company, does have some investors but I don't think DRM is in the end, the driving decision behind an investment opportunity. However, I do believe that not having DRM is going to turn off more investors than bring in, and that's going to limit the size and growth of a business which is selling protected IPs.
@Vortican I understand your point entirely. I've always agreed that the Diablo 3 releases and the Madden 2097 releases probably have to have DRM in them. It's one of the many reasons I am not interested in these titles. But do you think BG:EE qualifies as a AAA title? If so, why so few actual developers dedicated to the project? Perhaps we need to define what we feel a AAA title means. I think AAA refers to the amount of resources dedicated to a game. By that standard this release does not play in the same league as D3, GW2, Borderlands, etc.
The size of this project and the demographic to which it appeals are my main arguments for why this game should release DRM free. GOG happens to appeal to the same demographic and therefore makes a good comparable in my opinion. I think this is the perfect business model to use for game releases that fit the BG:EE profile. I think remakes of old games are the definition of the "smaller secondary market" you mention.
@Treyolen, of course BG:EE doesn't qualify as a AAA title. I agree with your definition and also add to it customer expectations. For a $59.99 title, customers absolutely top-rate graphics, full voice-overs, cinema-esque videography, tons of content, and years of support. I would say that players want to be able to feel as if they're in the middle of a movie when they're playing this sort of game, and that the cost and amount of resources that go into producing it also determine whether it can be considered a AAA title. Obviously, these criteria aren't exclusive and I think we can have a debate about whether or not those expectations are realistic for a $59.99 investment. Personally, I think we have grown to demand a lot more value for our dollar in terms of video games. While $59.99 is no small chunk of change to most of us, considering what we get, it's pretty impressive when these studios invest years of time and millions of dollars in costs. We get more value for our money from these games than major motion pictures, which is perhaps why we spend our time playing them
I don't think we can consider BG:EE an AAA title and so we don't need to expect AAA DRM either. Even in AAA titles, I think there's definitely a limit where DRM becomes too intrusive to become acceptable, which is why we need more effective and less obtrusive DRM methods than are currently employed. I also think we don't need harsh DRM in less than AAA titles. The resources invested, while not insignificant, are not as significant, the demand is lower, the market is smaller, so piracy should be less of a threat. Moreover, I believe the demand is more intense, which generates higher levels of dedication and support (because that's necessary for the game to be made with less investment of resources), so customers are less likely to pirate because they want to support the developer. That said, if we follow that pattern, it seems to me that the only situation where DRM-free (and I include no copy protection in that vein) makes sense is in a game that nobody wants to buy.
I think that BG:EE is a great game. It has an engrossing story, fantastic writing, wonderful characters and locations, and there's the nostalgia factor. I think that what Beamdog has done in regards to DRM is about as close as you can get to DRM-free, so I truly do not understand the rabid insistence of some who insist on absolutely no DRM. They're going to be depriving themselves of a great time not playing the game, or depriving the studio of much-needed funds by pirating it. It doesn't make sense to me to invest enormous resources in protecting a game that sells for $17.99, but for a AAA title that took 4 or 5 years to make and represents an investment in the millions of dollars? Absolutely.
BGEE is a perfect fit for GOG. The Infinity Engine style games sell very well there, and thanks to the sale, are the top sales again. Also 4666 votes also say they want BGEE on GOG or DRM free.
From my point of view, a game that is not AAA can be better than a game that is AAA. I've enjoyed games like Killing Floor, Zombie Driver, Trine, and many others more than I would ever enjoy Call of Duty, Battlefield, WoW, and many others.
Well, I wasn't judging their enjoyment. BG remains one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played, as evidenced by my paying $17.99 for a game which I could have kept and played again anytime I wanted. I don't think I've bought the same game a second time more than once before this. However, I do think customer's expectations differ greatly between AAA titles and indie/secondary market games, as they should.
I should also add that there are reasons why I personally don't purchase many games made these days. There are not very many that fit my criteria for what I like to play and unfortunately, those criteria aren't in the mainstream any longer.
They're going to be depriving themselves of a great time not playing the game, or depriving the studio of much-needed funds by pirating it.
As I have stated, I will not be pirating it. However, I will also not be depriving myself of a great time. There are way to many games out that I want to play, so if I can't play one because of DRM, I will play another.
As for missing a great time specifically with BGEE, I can still have a great time with http://www.gog.com/news/enhance_the_gameplay_in_your_edition_of_baldurs_gate_from_gogcom, which also has newly restored content that is not in the original releases. That link is not exclusive to the GOG release either. Those patches and addons work with my retail copies also.
That's the problem, there are great DRM free alternatives out there, that directly compare to BGEE, that I can enjoy, so I'm not really missing out. Plus those alternatives are cheaper, which isn't the deciding factor for me. Unfortunately it's Overhaul/Beamdog that is missing out by keeping DRM, since that is the only factor for some who are deciding not to purchase it.
I will buy BGEE when it goes DRM free, whether it's pre-release, shortly after release, or two years from now. That will be the same with BG2EE. I'll see what happens when they reach BG3 since that will be all new content, but unless they decide to go AAA, which would change BG a lot, there will still always be DRM free alternative to buy and play.
The Project Eternity kickstarter just announced that they will be offering DRM free versions through GOG. Project Eternity has 820 votes, BGEE has 4667 votes.
@Aosaw, I get that there are other parties involved in whether BGEE can be changed to DRM free or not. Guess what, Atari and WotC already have a lot of deals with their games that are DRM free, so it's not like they are foreign to the concept. It seems like it's Beamdog that is foreign to the concept of DRM free.
I also realize that Beamdog is a distributor, so I'm not saying they have to sell through GOG. I would be very happy to buy direct from Overhaul/Beamdog if DRM free. However, it would be nice to see BGEE on my game shelf next to BG.
And I am not going in circles. I simply see something related, or somewhat related to the DRM discussion, and mention it here. Also, anyone here probably likes this particular style of game. I see no reason to not share that.
I also posted the vote count to show that there is an interest by more than just the outspoken few in this thread. And that count keeps going up.
Lastly, BGEE has been delayed over two months. If all parties (Overhaul/Beamdog, Atari, WotC, paying customers) are interested in looking at a DRM free option, there is now time to do so.
It's going around in circles because it's all been said before. "X game is available on GoG without DRM, why doesn't Beamdog do the same with BG:EE?" "Because there are other parties involved apart from Beamdog that have an interest in using DRM." "But those other parties also have Y and Z games which are already available on GoG." "Yes, and those games were released three, five, or ten years ago." "This is an enhanced version of one of those games!" "It's still new!" Five pages pass. "X game is available on GoG without DRM..." And on and on. The circle exists on both sides of the argument; I'm just saying, we've gotten past that, and I'd like to keep the discussion moving forward.
Atari and WotC might have other DRM-free titles, but they aren't new titles. WotC likes to retain all of their rights (4e D&D Insiders, anyone?), and both of them are big companies that might be inclined to keep things more protected than not.
That said, you're right, with two extra months to work on the game, it's possible that a deal could be worked out between Beamdog, Atari, WotC, and GoG. And Steam, too, maybe, if they get lucky and it turns out all the bugs can be cleaned out in a week and they're looking for things to do.
I wouldn't hold your breath for it, though. It's easy for a project like Obsidian's to include plans for GoG and Steam and Mac and Linux releases because they're still in the initial stages of development. It's also easy because Obsidian is more or less self-reliant; they don't have to call somebody, leave a message, wait for a reply, get a message back, call them back, etc. Just to have the conversation where the other guy says, "No, we're not comfortable with that just yet. Talk to us in a month or two." And repeat the process over and over until it's finally done.
Just getting the rights to do the game took them over a year. Part of that agreement was that the game would include some form of DRM. To renegotiate that, Beamdog would have to enter a new series of talks.
Will it happen at some point? I'm sure it will, probably. But for the moment, I'd rather they focus on finishing and polishing the game for its initial release. Better a bug-free game that has DRM for the moment, than a DRM-free game out of the gate that is filled with problems that are going to be ripped apart on the forums.
The code is almost all new. It's the content that is largely the same. This might not seem like a big deal to you (or a lot of people), but the fact is there is a lot of work being done here, and it deserves to be protected if the developers and their affiliates feel the need to do so.
WotC might be more interested in the dollars and cents of it, but they've got a good case. Whether the story is new or a decade old, the fact remains that the work being done is being done now, not fourteen years ago.
@Aosaw The circle can stop. We accept that this release of BG:EE has DRM. This is not in dispute. What we want from this thread is for Trent and company to advocate for no DRM on subsequent releases. Many of us expect a BG:EE2 and maybe a BG3. We want those and future BG:EE releases to be DRM free.
Your argument that DRM free games are only feasible for games that no one wants is disputed by the results of the Project Eternity funding. That seems to be a game that many people want and is going to use the mechanism that I think is also perfect for BG:EE. Not even Hasbro can turn an entirely blind eye to the success over there. Especially when this very property is a big part of that success.
@Aosaw Another point you raised is that work is being done now in addition to the work done fourteen years ago. I agree and think they would reap greater rewards without DRM. No one here is saying they shouldn't be rewarded. We want them to get MORE money and think a non-DRM approach is the best way to realize that goal.
I didn't argue that it's only for games no one wants. I was pointing out that Hasbro is less likely to endorse a DRM-free release at launch than they are to endorse it for a game that's been out for a while.
I'm definitely pleased with the results of Project Eternity. But they're also working with a fans-centric business model (Kickstarter FTW) rather than a publisher-centric one (Hasbro FTL). I'll stand with you guys on future releases being better off without DRM; I just reject the constant arguments about how this release must get the same treatment right away. I think there are higher priorities at the moment.
Another thing to consider is that GoG has its own system of encryption, which Beamdog would have to accommodate, much like creating a release for iPad or Android platforms. Not quite as big of a developmental task, but it requires time to execute in addition to negotiating the deal itself. Trent tweeted that it's more work than he has time for at the moment, which to me says that he's open to the idea but they're too busy to make it work for the time-being.
@Aosaw The circle can stop. We accept that this release of BG:EE has DRM. This is not in dispute. What we want from this thread is for Trent and company to advocate for no DRM on subsequent releases. Many of us expect a BG:EE2 and maybe a BG3. We want those and future BG:EE releases to be DRM free. .
Please don't speak so generally.
I for one WANT BG3 to have DMR. Perhaps not as bad as Diablo 3 but more akin to DOW2 Ret, but any type of DMR is still DMR and I fully expect BG:3 to have DRM.
I think that's the first time I've seen someone say that they want DRM. I--and most other people I've heard from--would say it's a necessary evil that we'd rather not deal with but accept because it's either the nature of digital media or because piracy is so widespread that we want something to stop it.
I'd also rather not have to lock my car or my door at night, but I accept that this is the only way that currently exists to prevent people from breaking into my apartment or stealing my car.
I also believe that developers should have the right to make that choice for themselves, but I didn't think anyone would say, "Hey, developers! You should use DRM to protect your stuff! Gamers can't be trusted!"
I'm sure it goes deeper than that, but I'm surprised to hear it.
I think that's the first time I've seen someone say that they want DRM. I--and most other people I've heard from--would say it's a necessary evil that we'd rather not deal with but accept because it's either the nature of digital media or because piracy is so widespread that we want something to stop it.
I'd also rather not have to lock my car or my door at night, but I accept that this is the only way that currently exists to prevent people from breaking into my apartment or stealing my car.
I also believe that developers should have the right to make that choice for themselves, but I didn't think anyone would say, "Hey, developers! You should use DRM to protect your stuff! Gamers can't be trusted!"
I'm sure it goes deeper than that, but I'm surprised to hear it.
Without DMR nearly all my friends would pirate it......... I want this game to succeced, and I belive it will NEED DMR to survive.
(Your right though. Gamers (including myself) cannnot be trusted.)
I haven't wanted a game to succeed like this since Terraria. That game had really light DMR (It was stuipdly easy to copy the files and play it without paying) I told my friends that they should buy it rather then pirate it, but hay "Money problems".
Out of the 6 of us who now have that game only two have paid......It kinda sad
......................I forgot what my point was DONOTS!!!
I just reject the constant arguments about how this release must get the same treatment right away.
I never said must. I said I don't want games with DRM, and will most likely not buy a game with DRM. Extenuating circumstances can exist, but they are rare. And a remake of game that is 13.5 years old, with new code and content, that I intend for single player use, does not fit that circumstance. And I do recognize the work that Overhaul has put into BGEE, if I didn't, I wouldn't be willing to pay $20 for BGEE when I already have all the BG games on CD, GOG, and even the recent anthology DVD.
Also not every post here is about getting DRM removed from BGEE, some are just about DRM in general. I have purchased games that I have not even played yet, simply to support the fact that a developer or publisher is offering DRM free. It's my way of saying "thank you for recognizing I'm not a criminal, or a poodle". If DRM was 95-100% effective, my view might be different. But it's not. Ubisoft claims 90% ineffective. Some games with DRM have been pirated so many times, it might be fair to say it can be even 300% ineffective.
Much like the gun control arguments. When all the guns can be taken away from the criminals, then can you take away the guns from the law abiding citizens.
Why should I be treated like a dirty pirate when I am paying for the game, while the pirate gets the better product? I'm not contributing to the piracy problem, but I'm also not contributing to a system that doesn't work. Again, if DRM was effective, my view might be different.
I just reject the constant arguments about how this release must get the same treatment right away.
Much like the gun control arguments. When all the guns can be taken away from the criminals, then can you take away the guns from the law abiding citizens.
Two Irish female officers were shot dead a few days ago. They were responding to a call about a break in, they shooter made the call and then waited for them.
Irish Police officers (guardia) are unarmed and not legaly allowed to use force or weapons on a suspect.
Gun control is the very definiton of a not "black and white" subject and should be avoided completely in discussions like this.
Without DMR nearly all my friends would pirate it......... I want this game to succeced, and I belive it will NEED DMR to survive.
(Your right though. Gamers (including myself) cannnot be trusted.)
I haven't wanted a game to succeed like this since Terraria. That game had really light DMR (It was stuipdly easy to copy the files and play it without paying) I told my friends that they should buy it rather then pirate it, but hay "Money problems".
Out of the 6 of us who now have that game only two have paid......It kinda sad
Sad for you then, I can be trusted. With the internet today, I could pirate anything I wanted to. DRM gets cracked fast. If your friends had money problems and couldn't afford to pay for the game, then DRM won't make them magically have the money to pay for the game. If someone wants to pirate a game, they can easily find out how to do it. Even Diablo 3 is out there to some degree, and being improved all the time.
Piracy is out of control, but DRM is not stopping it, and in some cases I believe DRM is fueling piracy. Also, DRM is losing sales in some cases. It is still my strong belief that DRM is meant to stop second hand sales, which isn't really legal in this country, and some other countries in Europe are actually addressing that issue now. I haven't done enough research on second hand sales to say much about it now, but maybe it's time I do.
Oh, and Spore had heavy "DMR", and it was one of the most pirated games.
@ST4TICStriker - That is a horrible incident. I agree and will leave gun control out of here, I was just making a reference. But that does sort of back my argument about leaving the guns in the hands of the law abiding citizens. Plus the level of the crimes is much more severe than what we are discussing here.
Comments
I might be a little bit biased, though.
...I'm still not totally clear on what you mean, actually. Could you clarify that?
No, I'm not trapped there; I use a PC, and I don't have an iPad.
My bias is about the DRM, not the apple store.
I'm really against corporate control, whether it's DRM or the walled garden. Windows 8 is trying to make that same move. I've seen it, tried it, and hated it. It's completely counter intuitive to how we have used computers. I'm glad that I'm good enough with Linux and various other open source applications to be able to switch my computers over as needed. The only thing holding me on Windows is gaming. Much like games that use DRM, Microsoft will lose my money from tightening the leash, instead of getting more of my money. Luckily more and more games are starting to cross over, many other games will work on WINE for now, and Nvidia/ATI driver support is finally improving. Plus I should be able to keep my Windows 7 running for a long time, just like my Windows XP is still running.
Of course, if I were investing in video game studios, I'd be very wary of one which didn't employ some kind of protection. There's obviously a connection between size and scope of the games a business produces and the level of DRM they employ. I'd also be skeptical of the UBI experience too because unless the industry adopts an Apple model, you can't have that intrusive of a DRM that turns customers off. Obviously, companies like CD Projekt Red, a moderately-sized company, does have some investors but I don't think DRM is in the end, the driving decision behind an investment opportunity. However, I do believe that not having DRM is going to turn off more investors than bring in, and that's going to limit the size and growth of a business which is selling protected IPs.
The size of this project and the demographic to which it appeals are my main arguments for why this game should release DRM free. GOG happens to appeal to the same demographic and therefore makes a good comparable in my opinion. I think this is the perfect business model to use for game releases that fit the BG:EE profile. I think remakes of old games are the definition of the "smaller secondary market" you mention.
I don't think we can consider BG:EE an AAA title and so we don't need to expect AAA DRM either. Even in AAA titles, I think there's definitely a limit where DRM becomes too intrusive to become acceptable, which is why we need more effective and less obtrusive DRM methods than are currently employed. I also think we don't need harsh DRM in less than AAA titles. The resources invested, while not insignificant, are not as significant, the demand is lower, the market is smaller, so piracy should be less of a threat. Moreover, I believe the demand is more intense, which generates higher levels of dedication and support (because that's necessary for the game to be made with less investment of resources), so customers are less likely to pirate because they want to support the developer. That said, if we follow that pattern, it seems to me that the only situation where DRM-free (and I include no copy protection in that vein) makes sense is in a game that nobody wants to buy.
I think that BG:EE is a great game. It has an engrossing story, fantastic writing, wonderful characters and locations, and there's the nostalgia factor. I think that what Beamdog has done in regards to DRM is about as close as you can get to DRM-free, so I truly do not understand the rabid insistence of some who insist on absolutely no DRM. They're going to be depriving themselves of a great time not playing the game, or depriving the studio of much-needed funds by pirating it. It doesn't make sense to me to invest enormous resources in protecting a game that sells for $17.99, but for a AAA title that took 4 or 5 years to make and represents an investment in the millions of dollars? Absolutely.
http://www.gog.com/en/wishlist/games/baldurs_gate_enhanced_edition_1
From my point of view, a game that is not AAA can be better than a game that is AAA. I've enjoyed games like Killing Floor, Zombie Driver, Trine, and many others more than I would ever enjoy Call of Duty, Battlefield, WoW, and many others.
I should also add that there are reasons why I personally don't purchase many games made these days. There are not very many that fit my criteria for what I like to play and unfortunately, those criteria aren't in the mainstream any longer.
As for missing a great time specifically with BGEE, I can still have a great time with http://www.gog.com/news/enhance_the_gameplay_in_your_edition_of_baldurs_gate_from_gogcom, which also has newly restored content that is not in the original releases. That link is not exclusive to the GOG release either. Those patches and addons work with my retail copies also.
That's the problem, there are great DRM free alternatives out there, that directly compare to BGEE, that I can enjoy, so I'm not really missing out. Plus those alternatives are cheaper, which isn't the deciding factor for me. Unfortunately it's Overhaul/Beamdog that is missing out by keeping DRM, since that is the only factor for some who are deciding not to purchase it.
I will buy BGEE when it goes DRM free, whether it's pre-release, shortly after release, or two years from now. That will be the same with BG2EE. I'll see what happens when they reach BG3 since that will be all new content, but unless they decide to go AAA, which would change BG a lot, there will still always be DRM free alternative to buy and play.
Project Eternity has 820 votes, BGEE has 4667 votes.
Let's not go around in circles again, please?
I also realize that Beamdog is a distributor, so I'm not saying they have to sell through GOG. I would be very happy to buy direct from Overhaul/Beamdog if DRM free. However, it would be nice to see BGEE on my game shelf next to BG.
And I am not going in circles. I simply see something related, or somewhat related to the DRM discussion, and mention it here. Also, anyone here probably likes this particular style of game. I see no reason to not share that.
I also posted the vote count to show that there is an interest by more than just the outspoken few in this thread. And that count keeps going up.
Lastly, BGEE has been delayed over two months. If all parties (Overhaul/Beamdog, Atari, WotC, paying customers) are interested in looking at a DRM free option, there is now time to do so.
Atari and WotC might have other DRM-free titles, but they aren't new titles. WotC likes to retain all of their rights (4e D&D Insiders, anyone?), and both of them are big companies that might be inclined to keep things more protected than not.
That said, you're right, with two extra months to work on the game, it's possible that a deal could be worked out between Beamdog, Atari, WotC, and GoG. And Steam, too, maybe, if they get lucky and it turns out all the bugs can be cleaned out in a week and they're looking for things to do.
I wouldn't hold your breath for it, though. It's easy for a project like Obsidian's to include plans for GoG and Steam and Mac and Linux releases because they're still in the initial stages of development. It's also easy because Obsidian is more or less self-reliant; they don't have to call somebody, leave a message, wait for a reply, get a message back, call them back, etc. Just to have the conversation where the other guy says, "No, we're not comfortable with that just yet. Talk to us in a month or two." And repeat the process over and over until it's finally done.
Just getting the rights to do the game took them over a year. Part of that agreement was that the game would include some form of DRM. To renegotiate that, Beamdog would have to enter a new series of talks.
Will it happen at some point? I'm sure it will, probably. But for the moment, I'd rather they focus on finishing and polishing the game for its initial release. Better a bug-free game that has DRM for the moment, than a DRM-free game out of the gate that is filled with problems that are going to be ripped apart on the forums.
The code is almost all new. It's the content that is largely the same. This might not seem like a big deal to you (or a lot of people), but the fact is there is a lot of work being done here, and it deserves to be protected if the developers and their affiliates feel the need to do so.
WotC might be more interested in the dollars and cents of it, but they've got a good case. Whether the story is new or a decade old, the fact remains that the work being done is being done now, not fourteen years ago.
Your argument that DRM free games are only feasible for games that no one wants is disputed by the results of the Project Eternity funding. That seems to be a game that many people want and is going to use the mechanism that I think is also perfect for BG:EE. Not even Hasbro can turn an entirely blind eye to the success over there. Especially when this very property is a big part of that success.
I'm definitely pleased with the results of Project Eternity. But they're also working with a fans-centric business model (Kickstarter FTW) rather than a publisher-centric one (Hasbro FTL). I'll stand with you guys on future releases being better off without DRM; I just reject the constant arguments about how this release must get the same treatment right away. I think there are higher priorities at the moment.
I for one WANT BG3 to have DMR.
Perhaps not as bad as Diablo 3 but more akin to DOW2 Ret,
but any type of DMR is still DMR and I fully expect BG:3 to have DRM.
I'd also rather not have to lock my car or my door at night, but I accept that this is the only way that currently exists to prevent people from breaking into my apartment or stealing my car.
I also believe that developers should have the right to make that choice for themselves, but I didn't think anyone would say, "Hey, developers! You should use DRM to protect your stuff! Gamers can't be trusted!"
I'm sure it goes deeper than that, but I'm surprised to hear it.
I want this game to succeced, and I belive it will NEED DMR to survive.
(Your right though. Gamers (including myself) cannnot be trusted.)
I haven't wanted a game to succeed like this since Terraria.
That game had really light DMR (It was stuipdly easy to copy the files and play it without paying) I told my friends that they should buy it rather then pirate it, but hay "Money problems".
Out of the 6 of us who now have that game only two have paid......It kinda sad
......................I forgot what my point was DONOTS!!!
Also not every post here is about getting DRM removed from BGEE, some are just about DRM in general. I have purchased games that I have not even played yet, simply to support the fact that a developer or publisher is offering DRM free. It's my way of saying "thank you for recognizing I'm not a criminal, or a poodle". If DRM was 95-100% effective, my view might be different. But it's not. Ubisoft claims 90% ineffective. Some games with DRM have been pirated so many times, it might be fair to say it can be even 300% ineffective.
Much like the gun control arguments. When all the guns can be taken away from the criminals, then can you take away the guns from the law abiding citizens.
Why should I be treated like a dirty pirate when I am paying for the game, while the pirate gets the better product? I'm not contributing to the piracy problem, but I'm also not contributing to a system that doesn't work. Again, if DRM was effective, my view might be different.
Irish Police officers (guardia) are unarmed and not legaly allowed to use force or weapons on a suspect.
Gun control is the very definiton of a not "black and white" subject and should be avoided completely in discussions like this.
Piracy is out of control, but DRM is not stopping it, and in some cases I believe DRM is fueling piracy. Also, DRM is losing sales in some cases. It is still my strong belief that DRM is meant to stop second hand sales, which isn't really legal in this country, and some other countries in Europe are actually addressing that issue now. I haven't done enough research on second hand sales to say much about it now, but maybe it's time I do.
Oh, and Spore had heavy "DMR", and it was one of the most pirated games.