I would definitely be up for the storyline improvements, but I'm not at all interested in the difficulty increases (the final battle on core is plenty hard enough imho). Can you install it to where the final fight includes the five at or slightly higher than their vanilla difficulties?
The higher-difficulty battles are optional - the core "Ascension" component is just the storyline improvements, the option to recruit Balthazar or Bodhi at the Throne of Bhaal, and the Irenicus/Slayer Imoen/The Five final battle.
The higher-difficulty battles are optional - the core "Ascension" component is just the storyline improvements, the option to recruit Balthazar or Bodhi at the Throne of Bhaal, and the Irenicus/Slayer Imoen/The Five final battle.
IMO, the final battle is the worst of the bunch, difficulty-wise...the only other one that gave me trouble was Abazigal, and that was primarily a matter of figuring out which add to kill in which order.
IMO, the final battle is the worst of the bunch, difficulty-wise...the only other one that gave me trouble was Abazigal, and that was primarily a matter of figuring out which add to kill in which order.
To be fair, you get a lot of help with the final battle: both Balthazar and Bodhi are very useful (Bodhi can bypass Yaga-Shura's damage resistance, and Balthazar is fast enough to interrupt Sendai and Abazigal's spellcasting) and the pool abilities can turn the tide (immunity to Time Stop, Control Demon to turn the Fallen Solars to your side, etc.)
@Cuv: Just out of curiosity, are the storyline improvements being preserved (ie: the Sword of Chaos power-up, evil epilogues for Sarevok and Viconia, bonus epilogues for Balthazar or Bodhi)? Has any of that content been tweaked/changed for the EE?
@shawne None of that should be altered except where engine compatibility is an issue... and I don't see why it would. Tweaks? sure... like scripts and AI since more things work now than in vanilla.
And just to comment on what you already said above - Yes, you can gets TONS of help in the final battle if you want. I never had a problem with the 5 myself. I once had 47 demons controlled and that made the final fight a cake-walk. My comp slowed to a crawl in those days though, heh.
It's some of the optional Improved Battlemods that gave me issue personally. Illasera is particularly tough if you didn't transition with a full party from SoA, and Abazigal is really hard after fighting the hardest core fight in the entire game imho (Draconis). But there are certainly plenty of tactics to use to make even those easier
@Cuv: Could you give us a general idea of where the mod is currently situated in the adaptation process? And if the Improved Battle components are causing problems, would it be possible to split them off from the story improvements and push up the release of the "core" content?
EDIT: Hell, if I'm playing twenty questions, might as well go for broke - hey, @Dee! You mentioned a while back that official implementation of "Ascension" might be possible further down the line - could you elaborate on that?
There are ways to bypass Yaga Shura's insane physical damage resistance, which make the Assension battle a lot easier. One is the cleric spell harm. Another is Saravoks deathbringer assault. It will at some point trigger if you use greater whirlwind.
I'm more annoyed about Abazigal's cheesiness. Maybe it has been removed in later versions of Ascension. But throwing a greater mantle/absolute immunity and some other protective stuff in my timestop. Say what!! And he is a damage beast.
I'm actually going to try this with a Ranger/Cleric play through... Never used Harm much because I couldn't stand Anomen and neither Aerie nor Viconia melees well enough to make it worth it to bet on a harm hit roll...
There are ways to bypass Yaga Shura's insane physical damage resistance, which make the Assension battle a lot easier. One is the cleric spell harm. Another is Saravoks deathbringer assault. It will at some point trigger if you use greater whirlwind.
I'm more annoyed about Abazigal's cheesiness. Maybe it has been removed in later versions of Ascension. But throwing a greater mantle/absolute immunity and some other protective stuff in my timestop. Say what!! And he is a damage beast.
I'm actually going to try this with a Ranger/Cleric play through... Never used Harm much because I couldn't stand Anomen and neither Aerie nor Viconia melees well enough to make it worth it to bet on a harm hit roll...
About Aerie. I would rethink your approach to this character. Aerie is a magic dynamo and having harm and timestop is just to good a opportunity to miss out on in the ascension fight. As I recall even the often abyssmal fighting capabilities of a mage will hit in a timestop. Aerie is one of my favorite companions. Great healing capabilities, great mage (do miss out on some lvl 9 spells) and the poor hitpoints can be negated by protective spells and contigencies.
@themadviking I guess I'll have to give her a try again. Problem I always had with her was never having a slot for her, when I'm a Mage I still take imoen and Nalia/Jan and now Neera/Edwin. I will usually take viconia and or jaheira if I'm not a cleric, then it's just a matter of melee, which I usually use Charname for because I like fighter dual/multi. If she didn't fight with hexxat I would have a spot for her this time but that was a bust again...
I can see your problem, when your are playing mage. It can get a bit magic heavy with the aforementioned characters. I also enjoy the dual/multi combos. I'm mostly into dual because of the expanded opportunities these comboes create. I'm having fun with a zerker/mage right now. A bit cheesy but fun. A kensai/thief (even more cheesy) is also great fun for a pc which was my last build.
For most parts I choose fighter oriented characters which I dual to something else. This makes room for someone as Aerie as a backup caster / cleric to further enhance my team's longevity and fighting capabilities. I can't remember when I haven't used Aerie as a part of my team. The only annoying part of this npc is her attitude. The good thing about Aerie is that she fits almost every teambuild.
My last play was a kensai/thief, Minsc, jaheria, Sarevok( dual to a mage at 19), Imoen and Aerie. Damn, that was a strong party. Aerie combliments Jaheira with her healing so Jaheira can focus on more summons/ ironskin and imoen can focus on more damage spells where Aerie is a buff characters.
@TheMadViking - I've always wanted to dual Sarevok into a mage. Definitely considering it as Neera is the lone caster in my current playthrough, (I like to live dangerously). How did you like it?
Well, Sarevok dual to a mage at 19 is a unique experience. You have to accept that he can't do that much throughout ToB. However when he gain his fighter lvl back, Bam. I actually loved having him as a mage which specialize in buff magic. Tenser transformation, improved mantle, absolute immunity and most important of all, Improved haste. This character is a beast. You will never miss his fighter HLA's.
I've always had a grudge against Ascension Abazigal and the headache he can cause. He is the singlemost dangerous enemy in the ascension fight. You have to contain the threat quickly or you are dead. One of the things that annoy me to no end is all his protective contingencies.
With Sarevok F/M he can turn the tables. By using simulacrum you essentially have two Sarevoks that can contain Abazigal's threat somewhat. With further defensive buffs as improved mantle and absolute immunity you can use both Sarevoks as tanks while your mages have time to remove Abazigals buffs. If your are lucky the Simulacrum survives and you can use it to discract other threats.
You have no idea. Ascension is one of the best things that happened to BG2 TOB. As Tansheron mentioned. It can't really be put into words :-)
The amount of "agony" one feels when your tight plan unravel with only Amellisan left and she scores a critical hit on the pc and it's over. Or the feeling when you beat ascension with not a single death and you feel like a badass.
Once you play ascension you'll never go back to vanilla. Ever!! :-)
Honestly, that sounds more annoying than anything else. Ascension would be more appealing to me if the more difficult final battle wasn't a core component.
@mylegbig: As has already been pointed out, it's a myth that the final battle is that much more difficult. You get a whole bunch of new powers to play with, plus the assistance of a seventh party member who is either a high-level monk or a level-draining vampire.
Only if you did everything right. My first Ascension playthrough, I was Lawful Good but had a fairly low reputation, so neither Balthazar nor Bodhi would help me out. That fight was an utter nightmare, and it took me several hours to squeak through with a win. If I'd been using SCS at the time, I probably would have just cheated to see the ending.
The second time, I had Balthazar's help but like all non-NPCs (summons, elementals etc) he was nearly impossible to keep on a given target. Even with AI turned off and micromanaging him, he was more of a distraction to me than a benefit.
I don't think the NPCs respond to your Reputation so much as your INT/WIS/CHA stats - you're supposed to talk them into siding with you (and, in Bodhi's case, avoiding another geas by using clever wording).
With Sarevok F/M he can turn the tables. By using simulacrum you essentially have two Sarevoks that can contain Abazigal's threat somewhat. With further defensive buffs as improved mantle and absolute immunity you can use both Sarevoks as tanks while your mages have time to remove Abazigals buffs. If your are lucky the Simulacrum survives and you can use it to discract other threats.
@TheMadViking Does his simulcrum have Deathbringer Assault? o.0
@mylegbig: As has already been pointed out, it's a myth that the final battle is that much more difficult. You get a whole bunch of new powers to play with, plus the assistance of a seventh party member who is either a high-level monk or a level-draining vampire.
I'd have to disagree with that. It's been a few years since I played BG2, but I played through regular BG2 many times and never had any problem. I played through with the tactics mod too, and while parts were difficult, I managed to get through that too. Beat Solaufein's eclipse party as well. Got through all of Ascension without too much bother, including the dreaded Abazigal. But I must have reloaded that final battle with Melissan 50 or more times, over weeks, and NEVER beat it. The fact that the battle was so long, and you had to micromanage everything meant that I was taking up to an hour for one attempt. I still had fun, but to me it was by far the most difficult thing in the game. As it should be, for the final battle.
Oh, I just bought BG2EE anyway since I'm almost finished with BG1, but add me to this list of people who won't be playing TOB until it's Ascension compatible!
I'd have to disagree with that. It's been a few years since I played BG2, but I played through regular BG2 many times and never had any problem. I played through with the tactics mod too, and while parts were difficult, I managed to get through that too. Beat Solaufein's eclipse party as well. Got through all of Ascension without too much bother, including the dreaded Abazigal. But I must have reloaded that final battle with Melissan 50 or more times, over weeks, and NEVER beat it. The fact that the battle was so long, and you had to micromanage everything meant that I was taking up to an hour for one attempt. I still had fun, but to me it was by far the most difficult thing in the game. As it should be, for the final battle.
I suppose results vary depending on how you get there and what tactics you use - I had Sarevok, Viconia, Edwin, Imoen, Jaheira, Bodhi and a Sorcerer PC, and taking on the Five really wasn't that hard: Bodhi finished off Yaga-Shura in seconds, Sarevok and Jaheira used Greater Whirlwinds to chop up Balthazar (the only one of the Five who's immune to Time Stop), then I used the old Time Stop/Mindflayer Shapechange to take out Sendai while my fighters ganged up on Abazigal. Illasera was pretty much an afterthought by then, and meanwhile I used the Control Demon power from the pools to take over the Solars Amelyssan was summoning.
It's been that long since I've played it, I can't really remember exactly what I had trouble on. But isn't there several stages of the fight - as in you defeat one, then click on a pool or something, then onto the next one? And you can't save in between?
I also remember for some reason I was against wish resting. I can't remember why, but I never really used wish much. So by the end my mages were pretty useless. Maybe that was my problem?
@vangoat: That happens before the final fight - you have to disrupt the three energy pools, and each time you do, a bunch of demons spawn. But touching the pools afterwards refreshes your entire party, and you can still rest in the Throne itself at any point until you trigger the last pool.
I found the final battle pretty beastly too, I don't know how you just plowed through it like that, @shawne. In my experience Abazigal could take both Sarevok and Jaheira with all his mage defenses, and Sendai never let down her pfmw guard long enough to die to time stop shenanigans. I remember all of them being immune to int drain as well. Illasera was a nuisance, I had to have someone with the reflection shield on her at all times or she'd dispel my buffs. Definitely a hard fight.
@nano: Admittedly, I play on Normal, so that might account for it, they definitely weren't immune to INT drain when I fought them. I didn't even have to use my secret weapon - I'd unlocked the Ravager form after Watcher's Keep and it would have wreaked havoc in that fight (although I wouldn't be able to use the pool abilities, and Focus is vital as long as Sendai is alive).
@shawne It could be, I usually play on Core but I didn't know enemy abilities could change like that. Maybe it has something to do with the "tougher x" components? But it shouldn't change Sendai, hmm. I always forget about the Ravager but I'll have to give it a try sometime.
With Sarevok F/M he can turn the tables. By using simulacrum you essentially have two Sarevoks that can contain Abazigal's threat somewhat. With further defensive buffs as improved mantle and absolute immunity you can use both Sarevoks as tanks while your mages have time to remove Abazigals buffs. If your are lucky the Simulacrum survives and you can use it to discract other threats.
@TheMadViking Does his simulcrum have Deathbringer Assault? o.0
I can't remember if the deathbringer assault transfer during a simulacrum. However since it is a innate passive ability of Sarevok I can't see why it wouldn't. Even though the deathbringer assault is really nice, the point of the simulacrum is mostly to draw attention. The damage it can inflicts is a nice bonus.
With Sarevok F/M he can turn the tables. By using simulacrum you essentially have two Sarevoks that can contain Abazigal's threat somewhat. With further defensive buffs as improved mantle and absolute immunity you can use both Sarevoks as tanks while your mages have time to remove Abazigals buffs. If your are lucky the Simulacrum survives and you can use it to discract other threats.
@TheMadViking Does his simulcrum have Deathbringer Assault? o.0
I can't remember if the deathbringer assault transfer during a simulacrum. However since it is a innate passive ability of Sarevok I can't see why it wouldn't. Even though the deathbringer assault is really nice, the point of the simulacrum is mostly to draw attention. The damage it can inflicts is a nice bonus.
Thanks for the insight! Now I kinda wanna dual him to see how it works out for a different flavor in the game.
Also by "nice bonus" you must mean it DESTROYS THINGS, lol
Comments
And just to comment on what you already said above - Yes, you can gets TONS of help in the final battle if you want. I never had a problem with the 5 myself. I once had 47 demons controlled and that made the final fight a cake-walk. My comp slowed to a crawl in those days though, heh.
It's some of the optional Improved Battlemods that gave me issue personally. Illasera is particularly tough if you didn't transition with a full party from SoA, and Abazigal is really hard after fighting the hardest core fight in the entire game imho (Draconis). But there are certainly plenty of tactics to use to make even those easier
EDIT: Hell, if I'm playing twenty questions, might as well go for broke - hey, @Dee! You mentioned a while back that official implementation of "Ascension" might be possible further down the line - could you elaborate on that?
I can see your problem, when your are playing mage. It can get a bit magic heavy with the aforementioned characters. I also enjoy the dual/multi combos. I'm mostly into dual because of the expanded opportunities these comboes create. I'm having fun with a zerker/mage right now. A bit cheesy but fun. A kensai/thief (even more cheesy) is also great fun for a pc which was my last build.
For most parts I choose fighter oriented characters which I dual to something else. This makes room for someone as Aerie as a backup caster / cleric to further enhance my team's longevity and fighting capabilities. I can't remember when I haven't used Aerie as a part of my team. The only annoying part of this npc is her attitude. The good thing about Aerie is that she fits almost every teambuild.
My last play was a kensai/thief, Minsc, jaheria, Sarevok( dual to a mage at 19), Imoen and Aerie. Damn, that was a strong party. Aerie combliments Jaheira with her healing so Jaheira can focus on more summons/ ironskin and imoen can focus on more damage spells where Aerie is a buff characters.
Well, Sarevok dual to a mage at 19 is a unique experience. You have to accept that he can't do that much throughout ToB. However when he gain his fighter lvl back, Bam. I actually loved having him as a mage which specialize in buff magic. Tenser transformation, improved mantle, absolute immunity and most important of all, Improved haste. This character is a beast. You will never miss his fighter HLA's.
I've always had a grudge against Ascension Abazigal and the headache he can cause. He is the singlemost dangerous enemy in the ascension fight. You have to contain the threat quickly or you are dead. One of the things that annoy me to no end is all his protective contingencies.
With Sarevok F/M he can turn the tables. By using simulacrum you essentially have two Sarevoks that can contain Abazigal's threat somewhat. With further defensive buffs as improved mantle and absolute immunity you can use both Sarevoks as tanks while your mages have time to remove Abazigals buffs. If your are lucky the Simulacrum survives and you can use it to discract other threats.
The second time, I had Balthazar's help but like all non-NPCs (summons, elementals etc) he was nearly impossible to keep on a given target. Even with AI turned off and micromanaging him, he was more of a distraction to me than a benefit.
YMMV, of course.
Does his simulcrum have Deathbringer Assault? o.0
Oh, I just bought BG2EE anyway since I'm almost finished with BG1, but add me to this list of people who won't be playing TOB until it's Ascension compatible!
I also remember for some reason I was against wish resting. I can't remember why, but I never really used wish much. So by the end my mages were pretty useless. Maybe that was my problem?
Thanks for the insight! Now I kinda wanna dual him to see how it works out for a different flavor in the game.
Also by "nice bonus" you must mean it DESTROYS THINGS, lol