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Hexxat romance option

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  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126
    @Nic_Mercy
    Oh yeah? Why is Dorn Bi instead of Hexxat? Why couldn't they just switch that around?
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    @War_Lord
    Okay, please read what I am writing very carefully. I am trying to be as clear as possible. I am on nobody's side in particular, here. I am an outside observer who doesn't really have a dog in this fight who is trying to explain something to you. Here goes:
    People are being accused of homophobia not because of what they want, but because of how they are saying it. They are marginalizing not only the needs, but the very presence, of homosexual gamers with the words and tone they are using. The crux of their argument is that homosexuals essentially don't matter. Can you see how that might be offensive? Please, tell me you understand, because I really don't think I can spell it out any better.
  • War_LordWar_Lord Member Posts: 28
    edited November 2013
    If thats true why the is only Hexxat exclusively lesbian ? it makes no sense on any level

    why not exclusivly gay dorn or whatnot .. what about neera?

    *Why make exclusivley lesbian the one thing that will make the most noise"

    I agree that i find all romances are bi kinda stupid.. but i wont noticed it if am a "straight-male-gamer" since ill only play a man... its a better solution
  • BasillicumBasillicum Member, Translator (NDA) Posts: 400
    sersafir said:

    @Nic_Mercy
    Oh yeah? Why is Dorn Bi instead of Hexxat? Why couldn't they just switch that around?

    Why should they? I can't see any good reason why either one of these two characters should be bi instead of the other one, so I don't think there are any grounds to discuss changing either one of the characters at all.

    It is the way it is. There doesn't have to be a grand reason to Dorn being bi instead of Hexxat.
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 418
    edited November 2013
    sersafir said:

    @Nic_Mercy
    Oh yeah? Why is Dorn Bi instead of Hexxat? Why couldn't they just switch that around?

    I'm not sure why your question is directed at me or why you'd think I have any idea why Dorn was the bi option. I could ask you why is Dorn bi instead of Rasaad? But you'd have no better an answer than I have to your question.

    The LGBT arent the people who made Hexxat a lesbian. Its the people who don't want every romance to be bi that made her one. Though technically its the writers who decided she is what she is I am fairly sure its the anti-all-romances-are-bi sentiment that played a decisive role in determining her orientation.

    If you want her so badly hack the game yourself or wait for a mod to open your options like us fringe players usually have to. It's very hard for me to see you as somehow "wronged" or "burdened" because ONE romance isn't accessible to you when you still have FIVE other options. I have one option. ONE. And it took 15 years to get it.
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126
    @Schneidend

    I disagree they are arguing homosexual gamers don't matter. They are making this argument.

    Largest target audience:Hetero Male
    Second:Gay Male
    Third:Hetero Female
    Fourth:Gay Female

    This is the way they decided to spend their resources.

    priority:Hetero Female. +2 romance options [1 exclusive to their gender]
    Second/third/tie: Hetero Male, Gay female+1 romance options [1 exclusive to their gender]
    Fourth:Gay Male. +1 romance [0 exclusive]

    The complaint is the lack of content guys unexpectedly got.
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    I haven't played with Hexxat yet, but I don't think she should be turned bisexual. Why? Well, one, Dorn. Two, guys already have a female love interest in the evil side of the spectrum.

    As for Dragon Age 2 and all the LIs being bisexual. They weren't really bisexual they were Hawkesexual, with the exception of Isabella, who is really bisexual as one can see if they play through Origins.

    If we're going to talk about fairness, and stuff, then its more than fair that Hexxat is lesbian, because guys, you already get Viconia.
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126
    @Nic_Mercy Let me clearly and carefully explain what I was saying.

    You argued the anti-bisexual romance movement was the reason Hexxat was exclusively gay.

    I am telling you they brought in Dorn as the bi. They could have made him gay, but they decided on bi.

    As a result, they didn't appeal to most gamers and still brought in a bisexual character.
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    As long as we're reducing this to arithmetic:

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in vanilla: 1
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in in vanilla: 3

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in EE: 3
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in EE: 5

    Romances for hetero female CHARNAMES in EE: 2
    Romances for queer female CHARNAMES in EE: 1
    Romances for hetero male CHARNAMES in EE: 4
    Romances for queer male CHARNAMES in EE: 1

    The boys win in every category in both games. Hetero boys win in every category in both games.
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126

    I haven't played with Hexxat yet, but I don't think she should be turned bisexual. Why? Well, one, Dorn. Two, guys already have a female love interest in the evil side of the spectrum.

    As for Dragon Age 2 and all the LIs being bisexual. They weren't really bisexual they were Hawkesexual, with the exception of Isabella, who is really bisexual as one can see if they play through Origins.

    If we're going to talk about fairness, and stuff, then its more than fair that Hexxat is lesbian, because guys, you already get Viconia.

    The hetero male community didn't ask for Dorn. We're asking why Dorn was the bi and not Hexxat.

    Also, come on... That drow
    would rather kill herself than love in case you don't know..
  • War_LordWar_Lord Member Posts: 28
    edited November 2013
    if thats your argument you should understand the feeling... but you are doing what i am talking about.. what most people here are doing

    you feel that i"we" DESERVE this as ,YOU have been in the reverse situation in this game and in previous games. Most likely most games

    You like being on the other end and i really hate it on your end.

    We dont want to play the other choices since we played them before , we want new content yes? we bought new content"i assume most have played bg2 before"

    And yes am aware that i can mod this game into oblivion as i said many times... but again this was a selling point for this game and i paid for it..

    Am saying this is a bad design, am people here should think twice about their wording.

    If Beamdog are going to do it like this.. i recommend selling one character DLC at the time so people can choose themselves.. so i dont have to pay for the content i dont like...

    And even you must admit that the ratio for the people wanting the straight romance are still large enough to warrant the small work effort to do this...

  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 418
    sersafir said:

    @Nic_Mercy Let me clearly and carefully explain what I was saying.

    You argued the anti-bisexual romance movement was the reason Hexxat was exclusively gay.

    I am telling you they brought in Dorn as the bi. They could have made him gay, but they decided on bi.

    As a result, they didn't appeal to most gamers and still brought in a bisexual character.


    I still don't understand what you're trying to say. Maybe my brain is on the fritz.

    Dorn is bi... we know this. But if Hexxat were made bi then the trend would begin that all romances forthwith would be bi. The writers bucked that trend by making Hexxat exclusively lesbian.

    I still have no idea why you're focusing on me. I'm technically on your side. I want all romances to be bi and thus accessible to both you and I. I'm not the one who wanted Hexxat exclusively to any specific gender.
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126

    As long as we're reducing this to arithmetic:

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in vanilla: 1
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in in vanilla: 3

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in EE: 3
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in EE: 5

    Romances for hetero female CHARNAMES in EE: 2
    Romances for queer female CHARNAMES in EE: 1
    Romances for hetero male CHARNAMES in EE: 4
    Romances for queer male CHARNAMES in EE: 1

    The boys win in every category in both games. Hetero boys win in every category in both games.

    I already thoroughly went into this earlier...
    sersafir said:

    Well, the thing is, guys also get Dorn too, so its different from the Magical Female Elves, and half-elves. Also, Jaheira, and Neera are Half-Elves. What is wrong with you?! I'm sorry for stealing your line Neera.

    As for Anomen, there is some women who don't like him, and there are some that do. There was no alternate choice for females that disliked Anomen. That was until the mod NPCs were created.

    I meant for the heterosexual male. :| And really, the guys didn't get anywhere as near the same depth. You can have three hastily made romances or 1 very well done one. Which do you choose?

    @1765 Balanced? No, we've got 3 ancient romances with magical elves, another magical elf, and a male orc. Women get an incredible diverse Anomen, a new Human Rasaad, another new Hexxat no spoilers, but not human, the same orc Dorn...

    It's clear Anomen was 1 romance, but he had more depth. Now you've got much, much more depth and new romances think it's balanced. And I, with my male logic, apparently don't. And therefore, I will never understand. Maybe you're the one who hasn't looked at things for both sides? Maybe you're the one that's trapped?

    Even shawne admitted women had the scales tipped...
    shawne said:

    @sersafir: Is it a shame? Really? Because the way I see it, BG2 owes women players (and women characters) a lot after sticking them with Anomen as the only option for fifteen years. So the scales are tilting the other way for once; cry me a damn river.

  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 418

    As long as we're reducing this to arithmetic:

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in vanilla: 1
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in in vanilla: 3

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in EE: 3
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in EE: 5

    Romances for hetero female CHARNAMES in EE: 2
    Romances for queer female CHARNAMES in EE: 1
    Romances for hetero male CHARNAMES in EE: 4
    Romances for queer male CHARNAMES in EE: 1

    The boys win in every category in both games. Hetero boys win in every category in both games.

    And this is precisely why I have a VERY difficult time trying to sympathize with anyone crying over Hexxat. So ONE of the girls... ONE... just doesn't swing the boys way and it's all of a sudden a catastrophe! As I've stated before I wish all romances were bi so we could all pick the one we like but that's not what happened here and its not going to change. We'll see mods... maybe new npcs... but what we have is what we have and unless someone mods them to open up their gender access we just have to live with it.
  • War_LordWar_Lord Member Posts: 28
    @Schneidend

    Yes i understand but am also seeing allot of not so enlightened comments and harrasment.
    The other "side" aint playing to nicely neither
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126
    edited November 2013
    @Nic_Mercy

    I was trying to tell you it wasn't the anti-bisexual movement. They included a bisexual in their game. It could have been any character.

    The movement was to build the game around more girl gamers.
    And this is precisely why I have a VERY difficult time trying to sympathize with anyone crying over Hexxat. So ONE of the girls... ONE... just doesn't swing the boys way and it's all of a sudden a catastrophe! As I've stated before I wish all romances were bi so we could all pick the one we like but that's not what happened here and its not going to change. We'll see mods... maybe new npcs... but what we have is what we have and unless someone mods them to open up their gender access we just have to live with it.
    Not a single male doesn't swing their way though.
  • War_LordWar_Lord Member Posts: 28
    Nic_Mercy said:

    As long as we're reducing this to arithmetic:

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in vanilla: 1
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in in vanilla: 3

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in EE: 3
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in EE: 5

    Romances for hetero female CHARNAMES in EE: 2
    Romances for queer female CHARNAMES in EE: 1
    Romances for hetero male CHARNAMES in EE: 4
    Romances for queer male CHARNAMES in EE: 1

    The boys win in every category in both games. Hetero boys win in every category in both games.

    And this is precisely why I have a VERY difficult time trying to sympathize with anyone crying over Hexxat. So ONE of the girls... ONE... just doesn't swing the boys way and it's all of a sudden a catastrophe! As I've stated before I wish all romances were bi so we could all pick the one we like but that's not what happened here and its not going to change. We'll see mods... maybe new npcs... but what we have is what we have and unless someone mods them to open up their gender access we just have to live with it.
    Sometime in the future there will be a rpg game and something like this will happen to you.. and somebody like me will post your exact message...

    You tell me the difference.. even if you cannot sympathize
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126
    @Nic_Mercy

    The only thing I hated with the bisexual DA characters is the casualness of guys hitting on me leaving me 0 not mean options to get them to stop.
  • War_LordWar_Lord Member Posts: 28
    sersafir said:

    @Nic_Mercy

    The only thing I hated with the bisexual DA characters is the casualness of guys hitting on me leaving me 0 not mean options to get them to stop.

    Dragon age origin had belivable gay characters and a good script

    Dragon age 2 was a trainwreck of fails and for most a utter dissapointment, gay advances including.. lets just everyone agree that the only thing that can make this thread worse is talking about dragon age 2
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    I'm not sure even that could do the trick.
  • SapphireIce101SapphireIce101 Member Posts: 866
    edited November 2013
    @serafir - Personally, I wish Neera was bisexual. However, it will never happen without mods, and I want to experience her romance content naturally, so I made a male NPC.

    Also, out of all the romances in the original vanilla BG2, I preferred Aerie's. You say its rushed. I say its complex, and if you chose the wrong option at the wrong time, you lose Aerie.
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 418
    War_Lord said:

    Nic_Mercy said:

    As long as we're reducing this to arithmetic:

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in vanilla: 1
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in in vanilla: 3

    Romances for female CHARNAMES in EE: 3
    Romances for male CHARNAMES in EE: 5

    Romances for hetero female CHARNAMES in EE: 2
    Romances for queer female CHARNAMES in EE: 1
    Romances for hetero male CHARNAMES in EE: 4
    Romances for queer male CHARNAMES in EE: 1

    The boys win in every category in both games. Hetero boys win in every category in both games.

    And this is precisely why I have a VERY difficult time trying to sympathize with anyone crying over Hexxat. So ONE of the girls... ONE... just doesn't swing the boys way and it's all of a sudden a catastrophe! As I've stated before I wish all romances were bi so we could all pick the one we like but that's not what happened here and its not going to change. We'll see mods... maybe new npcs... but what we have is what we have and unless someone mods them to open up their gender access we just have to live with it.
    Sometime in the future there will be a rpg game and something like this will happen to you.. and somebody like me will post your exact message...

    You tell me the difference.. even if you cannot sympathize
    That something has been happening to me for most of my life with games. Its only relatively recently that people such as myself have even gotten ANY representation. If I sound bitter maybe I have cause?

    I don't WANT Hexxat to be denied to the straight guys. I want them to have what will make them happy.

    But I find it so hard to feel any sympathy when they are told "No" on ONE thing when I've been told "No" countless times over decades.

    I want everyone to have their happy ending. But when someone gets to have FOUR happy endings and cries because they can't have FIVE when it took me 15 years to even get ONE... well it's not easy for me to feel sympathy. Can you even understand where I'm coming from? Can you ever know what its like when every movie, every magazine, every tv show, every commercial tells you "you should be straight" and you're not? If you aren't gay then no you'll never understand what that feels like. It's changed dramatically since I was a teenager and I am grateful for the changes. Doesn't mean I still don't bear scars from it.
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126
    @Nic_Mercy

    Wow, what set you off to get so mad? Let me explain something here: hate the argument, not the arguer. Don't outright call people "spades." and grossly attempt to satire a person on the forum as a cheap means of insult.

    Furthermore, let me iterate a point you missed. If you aren't interested in your Godmother, a woman who wont stop crying, or a Drow
    that would rather kill herself than romance you.
    You were out of luck. Women got quality, not quantity in that game. Now, they've got more quality and quantity built around their replayability and romances in their enhancements.

    Of course Dorn and Rasaad don't matter to me. Why would you bring them up?
  • SchneidendSchneidend Member Posts: 3,190
    sersafir said:

    @Nic_Mercy

    The only thing I hated with the bisexual DA characters is the casualness of guys hitting on me leaving me 0 not mean options to get them to stop.

    Just don't click any gold, glowing hearts.
  • Nic_MercyNic_Mercy Member Posts: 418
    sersafir said:

    @Nic_Mercy

    Wow, what set you off to get so mad? Let me explain something here: hate the argument, not the arguer. Don't outright call people "spades." and grossly attempt to satire a person on the forum as a cheap means of insult.

    Furthermore, let me iterate a point you missed. If you aren't interested in your Godmother, a woman who wont stop crying, or a Drow

    that would rather kill herself than romance you.
    You were out of luck. Women got quality, not quantity in that game. Now, they've got more quality and quantity built around their replayability and romances in their enhancements.

    Of course Dorn and Rasaad don't matter to me. Why would you bring them up?
    ... so what "doesn't matter to you" isn't important. Got it.
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126

    @serafir - Personally, I wish Neera was bisexual. However, it will never happen without mods, and I want to experience her romance content naturally, so I made a male NPC.

    Also, out of all the romances in the original vanilla BG2, I preferred Aerie's. You say its rushed. I say its complex, and if you chose the wrong option at the wrong time, you lose Aerie.

    She's my favorite vanilla too, but believe it or not, she has the smallest amount of words tethered to her romance and some of the largest recycle dialogue options [all "right" choices only tell her to go to the continue romance dialogue option]. Hers [including all dialogue options, and Haerdalis fling] is about 15 pages long, Anomen's is 29...
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    HELLO THERE, I'm a gay male player who thinks "everyone is bi" completely sucks and I look forward to play the Hexxat romance with my female charname because I roleplay.

    For those new to roleplaying, I shall explain this concept to you, so you too can enjoy it!

    ELI5: Roleplaying

    "Roleplaying" is kind of like acting. It comes from "role" (a fictional character) and "playing" (pretending to be this fictional character). I know, it's confusing at first, so I give you an example. In "Silence of Lambs", Anthony Hopkins (he is an "actor", that's like the "player", only in a movie) plays Hannibal Lector (the "role", meaning this person isn't real). Hannibal Lector is a cannibal (someone who eats other humans). Anthony Hopkins, of course, is not a cannibal (it's not legal in most countries, so if he did, he would be a "criminal", not an "actor") and he eats no humans. He just pretends to do that when he roleplays Hannibal Lector. When he is not roleplaying Hannibal Lector, he doesn't do that. Then he normal things like fries, just like everyone else.

    In real life, I'm not a woman and I also don't want to date women. When I roleplay my female character, I pretend that she is into women, just like Anthony Hopkins pretends to be a cannibal. That doesn't mean I become a woman when I'm not roleplaying, just like Anthony Hopkins doesn't become a cannibal. (Would be worse for him, he'd get arrested!!!!) It also doesn't mean I ditch my boyfriend for a woman in real life, just like Anthony Hopkins doesn't throw his fries away and eats humans. (Again, would be way worse for him, haha!)

    The cool thing about "roleplaying" is that you can pretend to be many things that you can't be in real life (or wouldn't want to be, like cannibal) with no consequences! If you would try to pretend you can fly in real life, you would probably fall on your face and that would hurt you. OUCH! Who would want that? No-one! In roleplay, you can pretend to be a bird or just that you have wings - and not fall on your face! Totally cool! You can also pretend to have superpowers or be something that doesn't even exist in reality, like roleplaying an elf or a WIZARD.

    I hope this short introduction sparked the interest of some of you to give it a try; it's a fun thing to do! Next week, I will explain the difference between apples and oranges - see you then!

  • IcecreamtubIcecreamtub Member Posts: 547
    sea said:

    I know what you mean, man. If I can't fuck it, I don't want it.

    Don't worry, I'm sure the fine folks at LoversLab are hard at work on a hot BDSM dungeon mod for the game even as we speak. Then you don't even have to leave your bedroom ever again.

    I've never laughed so hard whilsting reading a forum post! Ohmygosh I was in hysterics! xD
  • sersafirsersafir Member Posts: 126
    @Nic_Mercy Right, not important to me. I'm totally fine with them romancing women. I have absolutely no idea what kind of point your making. Would you at least try to be as pleasant to me as I am to you?
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