Haha, yeah I noticed that too. I'm thinking that they recorded a typical NPC soundset for Clara, all done with the voice actor doing Clara in her 'zoned-out' state, and then they simply re-used the death sound (or maybe it's just a 'damage taken' sound) from that soundset in the cutscene where you meet the real Hexxat.
How is that false marketing? They made very deliberate effort not to say that was actually Hexxat's portrait. That was all fan speculation.
Dude, I can't read anyone's thoughts. They neither confirmed nor denied it was her in the portrait. Based on the screenshots, you can only conclude that it was her. How in the hell was I along with all the others supposed to know that was Clara and not Hexxat?
How is that false marketing? They made very deliberate effort not to say that was actually Hexxat's portrait. That was all fan speculation.
Dude, I can't read anyone's thoughts. They neither confirmed nor denied it was her in the portrait. Based on the screenshots, you can only conclude that it was her. How in the hell was I along with all the others supposed to know that was Clara and not Hexxat?
When did anyone say that you needed to read someone's thoughts? In fact the very problem seems to be that you, and others, read way too much into what was pure fan speculation.
I can't say that I care one way or another about how this or that was marketed. The dev's have every right to throw us a curve ball and i think showing Hexxat in her true form might have made the entire intro of her a bit of a mess.
However, they kind of did that anyway with the new (and very annoying) intro-screen to 2EE, that shows us all the new NPC's (save for baloo). It kind of gives away the entire Hexxat secret when you get to see and read about her before meeting her in the Coronet. ^ Really poorly thought out, if you ask me.
It doesn't really change much though. We have Hexxat and for better or worse we lose Clara, whom I much prefer over a walking corpse.
(How can anyone romance a corpse anyway? In terms of romance, i think Hexxat is another smack in the face for lesbian Charnames. I mean, this isn't Twilight Gate - The undead are hideous and ugly. Not that it matters to me, i'd never have a femme Charname anyway)
(How can anyone romance a corpse anyway? In terms of romance, i think Hexxat is another smack in the face for lesbian Charnames. I mean, this isn't Twilight Gate - The undead are hideous and ugly. Not that it matters to me, i'd never have a femme Charname anyway)
Vampires aren't zombies or skeletons. Yes, they have some corpse-like features but they are better preserved and maintain an echo of their appearance in life. People have been daydreaming about vampire romances long before Twilight came out (you have perhaps heard of Vampire: The Masquerade?). In fact, monsters often represent some aspect of human nature, and the part that vampires represent is lust, followed by gluttony and selfishness.
If I need to explain this though, you simply aren't the target audience for a vampire romance, and that's OK. While it isn't my first choice, I still see the appeal and I'm glad my chaotic neutral female jester has more choices than Anomen and Dorn available.
Like I've said previously, give an option to save Clara, I don't care if Charname fails miserably at it, but don't make her a follower. It seems more like people just want an option to save Clara, and could really care less if she was a companion.
If Clara does become a companion, she shouldn't get Hexxat's quests. Since this is a RPG, there should be consequences to one's actions. Therefore, for saving Clara, and making her subpar thiefness a companion, one should be locked out of Hexxat's quests because they are Hexxat's not Clara's. So, give Clara her own quest line.
How is that false marketing? They made very deliberate effort not to say that was actually Hexxat's portrait. That was all fan speculation.
Dude, I can't read anyone's thoughts. They neither confirmed nor denied it was her in the portrait. Based on the screenshots, you can only conclude that it was her. How in the hell was I along with all the others supposed to know that was Clara and not Hexxat?
If having Clara's portrait is that important to you, you can always edit a save game using EE Keeper and change Hexxat's portrait. But I think it's pretty silly to be throwing around accusations of false marketing because an NPC ended up with a different portrait than you were expecting.
To be honest i think giving Clara another name than Hexxat in the first place would have made the whole thing a lot easier to swallow, why do we need to think she is in fact the real Hexxat anyway? It makes sense if you are trying to surprise the player, but i dont see how that is strictly required, i guess it was just a design decision and thats it.
In any case, if youre introduced to an npc that you know is disposable, you dont even begin to wonder about them in the same way, compared to if you are expecting big quests and what not.
Logically speaking, Clara could have just said "help me save my mistress, she will reward you", and there would be no confusion at all, it would have actually made a lot more sense than following some blank woman with the vague promise of treasure, which never seems to show up. (In my case, i followed her exactly because i thought she was Hexxat)
Hell, if Hexxat is really intended for evil parties, Clara could have just been straight up with you from the beginning, and the whole trick and surprise would have been unnecessary in the first place.
If having Clara's portrait is that important to you, you can always edit a save game using EE Keeper and change Hexxat's portrait. But I think it's pretty silly to be throwing around accusations of false marketing because an NPC ended up with a different portrait than you were expecting.
You missed my point... The portrait is just a cosmetic thing which led me to believe there's only one Hexxat in the game. The main issue here is the fact that *my* companion was wrestled out of *my* party. Clara and Hexxat are two *different* NPCs. I picked up Clara and she was replaced by Hexxat without my consent. It's not about the portrait, but about the fact that I ended up with an unwanted companion.
Honestly? If you didn't want Hexxat, then you wouldn't have picked up Faxxat aka Clara and did her quest. So, saying that you didn't want Hexxat isn't even true, because you picked up Faxxat, and completed the quest.
I think what really has people upset is that they were gullible and believed that Faxxat was the real deal, and when that plot twist came. They couldn't believe it, the pretty purple haired white girl wasn't the real Hexxat.
That's what I said, just didn't spell it for you... I wanted Hexxat/Clara not Hexxat/Hexxat. I don't like when companions come and go without my control, that's all. Now I'm trying to do damage control. I don't care if the issue's resolved by a fan's mod or a developer's patch - I want it to be heard here that the game isn't as enjoyable as it should be for me. I have every possible copy of BG and BG2 there is and I bought EEs just because of the new companions so yeah, this is important to me.
You know you can't really make everyone happy, the devs have said many times Hexxat is gonna be a surprise, and made sure she's an interesting character.
Clara was part of the mystique surrounding Hexxat and for me personally was a really awesome situation twist. It made the story much more interesting than if we'd have for example, met Hexxat on the graveyard during the night, out of nowhere.
If you want to make something unique as an artist, you usually polarize your audience and there's not much you can do, unless you want to succumb to the dissatisfied part of your customers and in order to appease everyone destroy the unique aspect.
I doubt anything would be "destroyed" by patching/dlc'ing in Clara.
It's not much of a complicating issue either. In fact, Clara could be entirely avoidable by conversation options.
Choose to intervene, you can keep Clara. Stand around like a muppet and watch her die, you get Hexxat.
I fail to see how this robs any of the Hexxat fans of their experience. They'd be doing the exact same then as they do now, watch a lil lady get killed. *shrug*
I can't believe how worked up people are getting over this. Clara is a throwaway character, intended to be a simple lead-in to Hexxat herself. This is like being up in arms about Mouse getting killed in the first Matrix movie, and demanding extended editions of the second and third movies that bring him back and make him important. Clara simply doesn't matter to me.
The only reason I don't oppose this outright is that I don't see anything wrong with people having the option to keep this boring, dull, nondescript, uninteresting (did I already say boring?) character if they want to. If they're willing to pay for the privilege, more power to them. On the other hand, if the question had been 'would you rather have Clara DLC, or something else like an additional area' (assuming the developers only have sufficient resources for one or the other), I'd say 'no thank you' to the Clara option.
We only know she's a boring daughter of a farmer who had to begin stealing in order to stay alive, I wouldn't really consider that being a story.
That is "really" much worse story, than an orphan brought up by monks For example, Jan is a talkative turnip salesman who likes lying about... everything.
You dont need epic background to be epic NPC.
If I might pull some design rules out of my ass for a moment... A good NPC needs some combination of competence, intriguing backstory, worthwhile personality, and potential content.
Now, I haven't played with Jan in years and forget his quest, and arguably he's just a turnip salesman. You know what he also is? A mage who gets Use Any Item. The only progressing thief in vanilla BG2. The only gnome NPC. A hilarious storyteller, with plenty of amusing banter. Love him or hate him, he's a major presence in this series.
Now, some NPCs are better than others, but every new Beamdog NPC passes this test. They are unique individuals with significant impacts on your party's power level and fantastic content to check out. Can Clara step to that level? She's a failed-actress-turned-prostitute. Write an NPC out of that.
A Clara NPC will either wind up inferior in every way to every other NPC, particularly the new ones, or will need so many added features to compensate as to completely mess up Hexxat's story. Neither option appeals to me.
The only reason I don't oppose this outright is that I don't see anything wrong with people having the option to keep this boring, dull, nondescript, uninteresting (did I already say boring?) character if they want to. If they're willing to pay for the privilege, more power to them. On the other hand, if the question had been 'would you rather have Clara DLC, or something else like an additional area' (assuming the developers only have sufficient resources for one or the other), I'd say 'no thank you' to the Clara option.
I agree with your interpretation of Clara, but seeing as how Beamdog is a smallish studio with limited resources, it seems very likely that any further work done on Clara would be directly impacting work getting done on other content. Getting Clara DLC means not getting something else.
Speculation in more Clara content leading to other stuff getting axed is quite silly really.
If they make a dlc, they could actually make money off of it.. which could lead to more content in other areas. And by peering at the big interest there is around Clara, I'm pretty sure they could make a few bucks on it.
I havent actually played Hexxat's quests other than the recruitment one, but it seems there is some problem with saving Clara, in relation to those quests? I just dont see how making up some story and quest for Clara could pose a problem for Hexxat's quests, but several people have mentioned this so i am wondering if there is more to it. I mean, it seems to me like people are saying that the two stories wouldnt be compatible, but what is the problem with that? Helping Edwin and helping Minsc isnt exactly compatible either, so you have to chose one or the other, but that is exactly what people are asking for anyway.
As for the whole "You either get Clara or *other* content" thing, i think if there is a substantial demand for a specific content to be added, that takes precedence over "random" content. People have been pointing out that expectations towards a Clara dlc are too high and that people should stop kidding themselves and move on. Expecting "random" content to be better than a Clara dlc would be making the exact same mistake; why is it that people who dont really care about Clara, seem to categorically prefer *any* other content? That is at least as big a mistake as expecting a Clara dlc to be great.
If having Clara's portrait is that important to you, you can always edit a save game using EE Keeper and change Hexxat's portrait. But I think it's pretty silly to be throwing around accusations of false marketing because an NPC ended up with a different portrait than you were expecting.
You missed my point... The portrait is just a cosmetic thing which led me to believe there's only one Hexxat in the game. The main issue here is the fact that *my* companion was wrestled out of *my* party. Clara and Hexxat are two *different* NPCs. I picked up Clara and she was replaced by Hexxat without my consent. It's not about the portrait, but about the fact that I ended up with an unwanted companion.
Whatever feelings you may have developed towards Clara, whatever notions of her being *your* NPC and a member of *your* party, they were all based on your in-game experiences. At the end of the day, you still end up with a character that matches what was said in the promotional materials.
Let's look at it from a slightly different perspective. Imagine for a moment that the entire Clara portion was removed, and you got the real Hexxat from the get-go. There wouldn't be any problem then, right? You were promised a certain type of character, and you got an NPC that matched that character, everyone's happy. Now let's add Clara back in. Well, the character you were originally promised by marketing hasn't changed, and the character you ultimately received hasn't changed, so why is it now suddenly false marketing?
Look, if you liked Clara, and you don't like that she was killed off, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that there's anything dishonest going on, or that someone (i.e. the devs) are at fault. I mean, I like Yoshimo, and think it sucks that he dies, but that doesn't make it some sort of deceptive stunt on the (original) devs part.
im happy with BG2:EE has given me, i have just given my wishes for clara to be added as a companion, if they don't oh well, and if they do add her then for the people who dont want her either
A) dont download the DLC
download it and not use it
just because we want clara, we aren't going to force -you- to download the DLC and we aren't going to force the devs to make her into a DLC. this topic is just simply us saying what we would -like- to see, NOT what we want the devs to do.
just to try and stem anymore arguments, do i want clara as a full time NPC? yes, would i like them to? yes, would i be angry and throw a demanding tantrum if they say they aren't going to do it? of course not, there is PLENTY of game for me to enjoy without Clara
But yeah. The option to save her, but not the option to make her a PC. As Sapphy said; Mod is already being made, so really no point in the devs wasting time on it. In fact, seeing as there's a mod, this discussion is sort of pointless now, as you can save her and then just not have her tag along via the mod? ^^
Except the mod goes it's own way, introducing a new kit to the game and other undesirable effects.
If it was a mod that kept it as it is now, I wouldn't mind. But to be honest, the mod really does look fairly shoddy in light of what the plans for it are.
Comments
It's called empathy, I was expressing Hexxat's point of view, vampires have to eat too you know
".... ah"
The dev's have every right to throw us a curve ball and i think showing Hexxat in her true form might have made the entire intro of her a bit of a mess.
However, they kind of did that anyway with the new (and very annoying) intro-screen to 2EE, that shows us all the new NPC's (save for baloo).
It kind of gives away the entire Hexxat secret when you get to see and read about her before meeting her in the Coronet.
^ Really poorly thought out, if you ask me.
It doesn't really change much though.
We have Hexxat and for better or worse we lose Clara, whom I much prefer over a walking corpse.
(How can anyone romance a corpse anyway? In terms of romance, i think Hexxat is another smack in the face for lesbian Charnames. I mean, this isn't Twilight Gate - The undead are hideous and ugly.
Not that it matters to me, i'd never have a femme Charname anyway)
If I need to explain this though, you simply aren't the target audience for a vampire romance, and that's OK. While it isn't my first choice, I still see the appeal and I'm glad my chaotic neutral female jester has more choices than Anomen and Dorn available.
If Clara does become a companion, she shouldn't get Hexxat's quests. Since this is a RPG, there should be consequences to one's actions. Therefore, for saving Clara, and making her subpar thiefness a companion, one should be locked out of Hexxat's quests because they are Hexxat's not Clara's. So, give Clara her own quest line.
It makes sense if you are trying to surprise the player, but i dont see how that is strictly required, i guess it was just a design decision and thats it.
In any case, if youre introduced to an npc that you know is disposable, you dont even begin to wonder about them in the same way, compared to if you are expecting big quests and what not.
Logically speaking, Clara could have just said "help me save my mistress, she will reward you", and there would be no confusion at all, it would have actually made a lot more sense than following some blank woman with the vague promise of treasure, which never seems to show up. (In my case, i followed her exactly because i thought she was Hexxat)
Hell, if Hexxat is really intended for evil parties, Clara could have just been straight up with you from the beginning, and the whole trick and surprise would have been unnecessary in the first place.
I think what really has people upset is that they were gullible and believed that Faxxat was the real deal, and when that plot twist came. They couldn't believe it, the pretty purple haired white girl wasn't the real Hexxat.
Clara was part of the mystique surrounding Hexxat and for me personally was a really awesome situation twist. It made the story much more interesting than if we'd have for example, met Hexxat on the graveyard during the night, out of nowhere.
If you want to make something unique as an artist, you usually polarize your audience and there's not much you can do, unless you want to succumb to the dissatisfied part of your customers and in order to appease everyone destroy the unique aspect.
It's not much of a complicating issue either.
In fact, Clara could be entirely avoidable by conversation options.
Choose to intervene, you can keep Clara.
Stand around like a muppet and watch her die, you get Hexxat.
I fail to see how this robs any of the Hexxat fans of their experience.
They'd be doing the exact same then as they do now, watch a lil lady get killed. *shrug*
The only reason I don't oppose this outright is that I don't see anything wrong with people having the option to keep this boring, dull, nondescript, uninteresting (did I already say boring?) character if they want to. If they're willing to pay for the privilege, more power to them. On the other hand, if the question had been 'would you rather have Clara DLC, or something else like an additional area' (assuming the developers only have sufficient resources for one or the other), I'd say 'no thank you' to the Clara option.
Now, I haven't played with Jan in years and forget his quest, and arguably he's just a turnip salesman. You know what he also is? A mage who gets Use Any Item. The only progressing thief in vanilla BG2. The only gnome NPC. A hilarious storyteller, with plenty of amusing banter. Love him or hate him, he's a major presence in this series.
Now, some NPCs are better than others, but every new Beamdog NPC passes this test. They are unique individuals with significant impacts on your party's power level and fantastic content to check out. Can Clara step to that level? She's a failed-actress-turned-prostitute. Write an NPC out of that.
A Clara NPC will either wind up inferior in every way to every other NPC, particularly the new ones, or will need so many added features to compensate as to completely mess up Hexxat's story. Neither option appeals to me.
If people want to mod her, that's fine with me =P
If they make a dlc, they could actually make money off of it.. which could lead to more content in other areas.
And by peering at the big interest there is around Clara, I'm pretty sure they could make a few bucks on it.
I just dont see how making up some story and quest for Clara could pose a problem for Hexxat's quests, but several people have mentioned this so i am wondering if there is more to it.
I mean, it seems to me like people are saying that the two stories wouldnt be compatible, but what is the problem with that? Helping Edwin and helping Minsc isnt exactly compatible either, so you have to chose one or the other, but that is exactly what people are asking for anyway.
As for the whole "You either get Clara or *other* content" thing, i think if there is a substantial demand for a specific content to be added, that takes precedence over "random" content. People have been pointing out that expectations towards a Clara dlc are too high and that people should stop kidding themselves and move on. Expecting "random" content to be better than a Clara dlc would be making the exact same mistake; why is it that people who dont really care about Clara, seem to categorically prefer *any* other content? That is at least as big a mistake as expecting a Clara dlc to be great.
Let's look at it from a slightly different perspective. Imagine for a moment that the entire Clara portion was removed, and you got the real Hexxat from the get-go. There wouldn't be any problem then, right? You were promised a certain type of character, and you got an NPC that matched that character, everyone's happy. Now let's add Clara back in. Well, the character you were originally promised by marketing hasn't changed, and the character you ultimately received hasn't changed, so why is it now suddenly false marketing?
Look, if you liked Clara, and you don't like that she was killed off, that's fine. But that doesn't mean that there's anything dishonest going on, or that someone (i.e. the devs) are at fault. I mean, I like Yoshimo, and think it sucks that he dies, but that doesn't make it some sort of deceptive stunt on the (original) devs part.
A) dont download the DLC
just because we want clara, we aren't going to force -you- to download the DLC and we aren't going to force the devs to make her into a DLC. this topic is just simply us saying what we would -like- to see, NOT what we want the devs to do.
just to try and stem anymore arguments, do i want clara as a full time NPC? yes, would i like them to? yes, would i be angry and throw a demanding tantrum if they say they aren't going to do it? of course not, there is PLENTY of game for me to enjoy without Clara
I too, as mentioned earlier, still enjoy 2EE to bits and pieces - and in general, I am happy with the EE's in general.
But when all is said and done, I'd still like to see Clara 2.0
But yeah. The option to save her, but not the option to make her a PC. As Sapphy said; Mod is already being made, so really no point in the devs wasting time on it. In fact, seeing as there's a mod, this discussion is sort of pointless now, as you can save her and then just not have her tag along via the mod? ^^
If it was a mod that kept it as it is now, I wouldn't mind. But to be honest, the mod really does look fairly shoddy in light of what the plans for it are.