Getting sick of the Enhanced Edition hate from fans of the old game

Pekingduckman

It seems that in many popular gaming forums like Gamefaqs or Steam forums, there's always someone outright hating the game, which basically boils down to them claiming that the game is a fraud for charging $25, that the game simply took mods and slapped it onto the old BG games, that the game is completely unplayable due to bugs (many of which are fixed), and the new NPCs are constantly belittled, making it obvious that the never actually played the Enhanced Editions. Worse sometimes it goes into personal attacks against Trent and Beamdog, with some wishing the company to fold.

For instance, just the other day I asked about party recommendations on another Baldur's Gate forum and casually mentioned that I'm playing BG2EE, and someone showed up and asked me to leave and not mention the EE, unless I was to discuss how much it "sucks". I ended up with being called a Beamdog plant for defending the game, sigh.

Seriously I don't get this type of downright fanboyism, and it's not like the old games and their mods are going away just because the Enhanced Edition are made.

deltago

Haters are going to hate.
It's the internet, don't let it get you down. You won't change these people's minds regardless of how ignorant they are of the changes in the EE.

marceror

The EEs totally suck.


As in, they suck money out of my pocket so I can own them.


Winning!

Kaltzor

I still like when BG:EE came out on steam originally, and people claimed Beamdog was supposedly taking down modders when the Gibberlings 3 site was temporarily down for something I don't remember what... Because BG:EE was just "BG with mods pre-installed and they don't want people figuring that out".

On the topic of the NPCs though, while I wouldn't call them bad, they do kind of stand out in a bad way since the base game can't properly interact with them because they had to leave it as it was... Outside of the new quests, the new NPCs recieve little to no mention or acknowledgement.

[Deleted User]

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Erg

There are many legitimate complaints against the EE and I personally still prefer to play the original games (at the moment at least) for reasons I made clear several time on this board, but yeah I agree that most people (especially on other communities) are often criticising the EE for the wrong (and sometime nonexistent) reasons.

I read too groundless complaints against DRM or that the EE are just the old games with mods, etc. All these stupid accusations not only make look bad for extension people with reasonable complaints but, more importantly, do not provide any positive feedback with the ultimate goal of improving the EE in the long term.

On the other side, however, we have, especially on this forum, the opposite problem. Some people seem to accept the current state of the EE without any critical thinking and often they are in denial of real problems, e.g.

1) the new areas textures are not blurry, they are just fine (when their blurriness has already been confirmed by the devs together with their intention to fix this particular issue in the future)
2) there are no bugs in the game (when the devs keep releasing patches to fix hundreds of them)
etc.

I believe that these extreme positions, from both sides, are useless or even harmful in the long term and that instead legitimate complaints should not be overlooked, especially when they are motivated by both the love for these games and the genuine desire to improve them.

[Deleted User]

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Schneidend

EE = team of professionals, working tirelessly to fix bugs and exploits while also fixing things they themselves introduce; adding classes, items, and NPCs that actually plug holes in the original games' repertoire and inclusivity; streamlining the coding of the game so things that were once dismissed as hard-coded impossibilities; cooperating with modders of skill and consequence in the community.

Vanilla = wild frontier with lots of mod content, most of which is barren of value or quality, still dealing with the same engine limitations the community doesn't have the resources or focus to address.

It's pretty clear which is the superior product. Naysayers just resent having to pay a humble admission price so Overhaul's employees can eat.

CrevsDaak

I really want BG2:EE for the engine improvements, as I have the original game running, well, it runs fine, but it is somehow unstable, but I would like to have BG2:EE just because they improved internal coding, I've heard that familiars' are now ruled by a IDS and not anymore in the GAM, that the effects in items somehow magically don't require another effect of "display portrait icon", that lots of bugs were fixed (and bug fixing is the only reason I would like to see PS:T:EE, after a place to sleep in Carceri, damn!) and new features/kits/items/NPCs/areas were implemented, not to say that I really don't care about graphics and find some new graphic features amusing, like the new cinematic/animations for cloud-like spells and that stuff that, in iPad lags the game and slows the FPS a lot.

CoM_Solaufein

EE is the best thing since sliced pizza. Those old dinosaurs needed to be updated as a lot of other games need to be.

Cahir

Speaking of enhancements in the form of the new content, I think e.g. PST: EE would be the case when new content (maybe except of some unfinished/not implemented parts of code) is absolutely not needed. The game is so consistent in the plot, that IMO all new stuff could stand out way more than in BG(2)EE case (which I personally don't see it as much as many on these forums, I like it to be truth). If Beamdog ever decides to release PST:EE, the only things they need to do is: enhance the engine, improve the graphics (provided that art assets aren't lost) and fix the bugs. Period.
IWD:EE is a different beast, where I could imagine tones of enhancements for a change (including multitude of new content).

So, the question how to enhance the game in the best possible way ultimately depends of the game itself. And devs always should carefully consider what are the needs and expectations of the players.
Personally, I think they did a great job with BG(2)EE and I'm 100% certain, that I'm not going back to vanilla edition (even if I have to wait for few essential mods a while longer). It's just that good for me. Plus, having a wonderful dev team working side by side with modders and beta testers to improve it the best possible way, is worth something.

Besides, I didn't encounter any other community of players so helpful to improve this game. Just looking at the Bugs threads, where players constantly trying to help as much as possible to fix a bugs, without spitting at the game for having ones, makes me smile.

I think there are so few haters on these forums, because mainly enthusiasts want to visit them. To my surprise most haters stick to their own communities, where they can freely throw rocks at the devs.

I'm not uncritical about EE, but I can see where it's all going and within a few months, when all mods that matter will be converted, there will be no arguments against Enhanced Editions anymore. I'm quite sure of that.

Almateria

Pekingduckman said:

Getting sick of the Enhanced Edition

Agreedo.

Chaotic_Good

Schneidend said:

EE = team of professionals, working tirelessly to fix bugs and exploits while also fixing things they themselves introduce; adding classes, items, and NPCs that actually plug holes in the original games' repertoire and inclusivity; streamlining the coding of the game so things that were once dismissed as hard-coded impossibilities; cooperating with modders of skill and consequence in the community.

Vanilla = wild frontier with lots of mod content, most of which is barren of value or quality, still dealing with the same engine limitations the community doesn't have the resources or focus to address.

It's pretty clear which is the superior product. Naysayers just resent having to pay a humble admission price so Overhaul's employees can eat.

You must not have played the same game I played the tutu team and players did a better job than beamdogs team with out a doubt. Playing through EE was mind numbing because of spawn issues and the dice changes it was painfully easy the only exception was some of the battles in the new content. It isn't even a question of who did a better job, but I still think its great that they put it into a play ready package or almost play ready package even though it isn't as high quality as what it should have been. If you like playing games in baby mode I could see how you could like EE more.

Nonnahswriter

Chaotic_Good said:

If you like playing games in baby mode I could see why you could like EE more.

"Baby mode?" That's...a little degrading...

Dee

I don't know why I keep having to remind people, but people, please follow the site rules. Insulting people is not an acceptable way of behaving on the internet--or, at the very least, it's not an acceptable way of behaving in this corner of it.

Chaotic_Good

Really... baby mode means you like to play on easy... it is a preference. Maybe I should have replaced you with someone that way no one would feel directly felt threatened by my harsh words... I don't think Schneidend has even read it yet lol, but I more than happy to apologize if it does strikes to deep...

Mitchfork

Chaotic_Good said:

spawn issues and the dice changes

Can you clarify what you mean by dice changes?

Chaotic_Good

They added a minimum roll so our rolls end up much higher.

Mitchfork

Chaotic_Good said:

They added a minimum roll so our rolls end up much higher.

You mean for core attributes at character creation? That's always had a bare minimum of 75, even in vanilla.

Kaltzor

I don't have a BG1 install on my machine at the time so I can't test that for it... But BG2 I do have and I can't get it to generate anything below 75.

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CrevsDaak

I've got higher rolls with BG2:ToB than with EE, but, by far, and I was very little time.
No, I didn't rolled for a Ranger in vanilla BG2 and then for a Thief in BG:EE, both times it was for a Jester.

Schneidend

Chaotic_Good said:

You must not have played the same game I played the tutu team and players did a better job than beamdogs team with out a doubt. Playing through EE was mind numbing because of spawn issues and the dice changes it was painfully easy the only exception was some of the battles in the new content. It isn't even a question of who did a better job, but I still think its great that they put it into a play ready package or almost play ready package even though it isn't as high quality as what it should have been. If you like playing games in baby mode I could see how you could like EE more.

You're mistaken. I've played Tutu. I enjoyed it, and it was the first BG1 run I'd ever completed. EE is still superior. The high resolution mods are not as good as a base EE install, an agreeable implementation of 1PP comes with EE, and Tutu requires a separate mod to make the water not be green. At base, EE is the higher-quality product.

I'm not even sure what you mean about difficulty, or how EE is "baby mode." Neither Tutu nor EE affect difficulty as far as I'm aware.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

Lol, @Chaotic_Good trying to rustle people's jimmies once again.

reedmilfam

@Pekingduckman I think people can have (and express) whatever opinion they want of the game and threads telling people what you approve of, or not, in that vein, are inappropriate. Big secret of the cosmos: your opinion is no more (or less) valid than any of theirs. Welcome to reality.

FinneousPJ

@reedmilfam So everyone except @Pekingduckman can express their opinion, lol.

Chaotic_Good

@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud I love when you talk dirty I don't really feel like re-installing vanilla and tutu to see if i hit the nail on the head. I was playing tutu before I downloaded ee on this computer and it would take hours for a good roll on tutu (one time I had spent 3 days trying for the near perfect toon ) and when I started ee I would get those near perfect rolls in like 10min. Really the roll difference is only one issue try not to fixate on it. If you didn't notice the spawn issues with ee1 your blind on un-scripted fights you only ever see 1-2 enemy where as it was a small army in tutu. There is also the restriction changes. There was a list of things that made the game easier on a thread, but my history didn't go back far enough to find it others brought up some things that I had not even thought about.

[Deleted User]

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Mitchfork

It's worth noting that Tutu actually drastically increased spawn rates, so if you're coming from that you're going to notice a huge difference in BG:EE. I dunno if they're decreased or not from vanilla because it's been an incredible amount of time since I've played it.

Kaltzor

Only real difference in terms of fights I've seen between the original and Enhanced Edition is maybe less waylays... No more "You have been waylayed by enemies and must defend yourself" everytime you want to go somewhere outside of Athkatla or Baldur's Gate...

elminster

typo_tilly said:

At release, the spawns were much lower (eg. 5 enemies total in gnoll fortress) than they should have been. They did increase the spawns after finding the bug, but it may still be too low.

For comparison, how does everyone feel about the spawns in firewine? Place scares me in vanilla and in EE so I'm a little biased there... n_n'

Only thing that scares me about Firewine is the pathfinding