@LadyRhian and I tend to passionately disagree on about 90% of things. It really is best if we ignore each other. Anyway forget it, I'm being uppity and I should just gloss over your posts rather than saying anything.
I would highly appreciate if people stopped taking this thread off-topic though.
Quartz , it's your own fault things are difficult, you don't expect a 17 yo girl to initiate, especially if you're already friends and she doesn't want to give you clear signs that might make her appear easy, more so since she have no clear idea about your feelings and might think you're just fooling around. If it's difficult for you to tell her about your feelings, imagine how it is for her. Best to act now and be straightforward. Be humble but self-assured, tell her "I don't usually go up to girls and say this, but I really like you. I've liked you for a while actually. Would you want to go on a date with me as my girlfriend?" or something like that. How difficult can that be? You have nothing to lose but a little sting in your pride if you get rejected, unlikely to happen from what I read. But the more you wait, the less your chances are to get in couple with her. You beat Baldur's Gate for Christ sake, you can do this
Lmao. OK, most of your post was good, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the post overall. But this one got me; it's "my own fault" when she cancels on me four times? That's pretty funny. That is all I mean by "difficult." It is not a struggle to initiate, it is no trouble to vent my feelings. Difficult is being cancelled on four times. Oh, and our first date we had to replan about five times, too.
I would advise asking her out but you want to make certain that only the two of you will be going--make it an actual date. The worst that will happen is that she might decline the offer, which isn't to say that she won't be amenable to the idea in the future. Presuming the offer for a date is accepted, then go somewhere that neither of you normally go or do something neither of you normally do. Clearly I don't know that those things are but you might try a zoo, an antique store, or something where both of you are a little out of your element. True, this might put both of you a little on edge but it will certainly be a conversation-starter and the two of you will have to rely on each other for support.
Worst-case scenario: things fail miserably. That being said, most people are generally expected to fail miserably in relationships at that time of life and the emotional distress of the failure will subside relatively quickly after which you move on and meet other potential hopeful relationship partners. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained", according to the proverbial wisdom. I can tell you that I certainly had some disasters back then; thank goodness I don't have to go through that again but it is one of those necessary problems for well-rounded personal growth.
Best-case scenario: she is the one. Nothing more need be added to this.
Yeah, what did she say the reason was for cancelling? If it is some sort of important family occasion/meeting about school/work then you are okay. If it is some sort of hardcore drama with friends, you should probably cast expeditious retreat. If it is "my uncle is visiting from out of town" then you should take it as the dating blow-off equivalent of "my dog ate my homework"
I also agree with Mathsorcerer. Ask her somewhere cool and interesting she's never been before. If she's a classy and well-read girl take her to a museum or a play. If she's cutesy then take her to a zoo. Try to avoid movies for early dates... they are chemistry killers and limit your ability to interact. I took a girl to an art museum in college for a first date and we hit it off pretty well and ended up dating for a while. These kind of activities are great for a couple reasons A. It makes for great conversations and experiences that you can share afterwords B. It is a chance for both of you to actually share things in a comfortable place. It gives both of you the "excuse" you need to be inquisitive without being pushy and to share without seeming awkward C. It is more of an "event" as opposed to a "lets get ice cream" so she is more likely to look forward to it, and put thought into it. Any minute you're on her mind is usually a good thing. Also she is less likely to view it as a get-together that can be cancelled or rescheduled. She's also probably appreciate the new experience.
Then it's no biggy. Holidays had been a crazy busy season for me, and if you're in school, there's a-bajillion different things that can get in the way. It won't last all the time; busy seasons come and go. And if she's just as frustrated as you are, then it's clear she definitely wants to make the effort to connect, but life's gotten in the way. Sometimes it happens, and as you get later in life, it'll happen a lot. But the opportunity will always come back again.
Lmao. OK, most of your post was good, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the post overall. But this one got me; it's "my own fault" when she cancels on me four times? That's pretty funny. That is all I mean by "difficult." It is not a struggle to initiate, it is no trouble to vent my feelings. Difficult is being cancelled on four times. Oh, and our first date we had to replan about five times, too.
Don't overthink it. I'm being honest with you. I wrote "It's your own fault" in the sense you were waiting for her to initiate, then you are being passive when planning a second date: When a girl cancel 4 times it means either she's not into you and you're friendzoned, because your first date wasn't to her liking, or she's not sure you are really interested. If she is really willing to go out with you again, she won't be busy, no excuses would stop her and you would already have a second date. In any case, you won't make progress unless you have an honest straightforward lengthy conversation with your lady to clear things out. This is what I can tell you, take it as you will. All the best to you.
Hello I think you seem sweet and your post is cute, I have read through the thread and have a few thoughts about it.
I am around your age and have dated quite a lot, and slept around even more. I often get attention from people wanting to go out with me and its not uncommon for me to feel nothing towards people who confess their infatuation for me.
I think this girl likes you fine, but probably not more. If you do see her she probably enjoys the time spent, but obviously does not really want to make any bigger effort to make these meetings happen. She might be flirty, but that might just be her. I flirt with guys alot who I have no real interest in pursuing anything more with. And you live an hour away, that is quite a distance. It might be no problems for you to drive an hour, but I would find a guy who did that for me (especially if its an early flirt) to be a little awkward and off-putting.
Last note on friend-zone; Alot of guys have brought this up in this thread. There is no *phenomen* that good guys "never get the girl" (so heteronormative), the person in question just isn't interested in you. You shouldnt put blame on someone for not liking you. It is THAT kind of attitude that will make you single forever.
Anyway, I wish you the best in your endeavors and suggest you look elsewhere for people who show you more attention. You might hook with this girl later but I don't think you should obsess about it too much. And really, try not to obsess about dating too much overall. People our age usually have ALOT more experience than you currently possess, things you might consider to be *big* might be trivial to others, keep this in mind when trying to begin a relationship.
Good luck!!!! And if u live in my area u can take me on a date, u seem nice and into BG.
Hello I think you seem sweet and your post is cute, I have read through the thread and have a few thoughts about it.
I am around your age and have dated quite a lot, and slept around even more. I often get attention from people wanting to go out with me and its not uncommon for me to feel nothing towards people who confess their infatuation for me.
I think this girl likes you fine, but probably not more. If you do see her she probably enjoys the time spent, but obviously does not really want to make any bigger effort to make these meetings happen. She might be flirty, but that might just be her. I flirt with guys alot who I have no real interest in pursuing anything more with. And you live an hour away, that is quite a distance. It might be no problems for you to drive an hour, but I would find a guy who did that for me (especially if its an early flirt) to be a little awkward and off-putting.
Last note on friend-zone; Alot of guys have brought this up in this thread. There is no *phenomen* that good guys "never get the girl" (so heteronormative), the person in question just isn't interested in you. You shouldnt put blame on someone for not liking you. It is THAT kind of attitude that will make you single forever.
Anyway, I wish you the best in your endeavors and suggest you look elsewhere for people who show you more attention. You might hook with this girl later but I don't think you should obsess about it too much. And really, try not to obsess about dating too much overall. People our age usually have ALOT more experience than you currently possess, things you might consider to be *big* might be trivial to others, keep this in mind when trying to begin a relationship.
Good luck!!!! And if u live in my area u can take me on a date, u seem nice and into BG.
And if u live in my area u can take me on a date, u seem nice and into BG.
I think she liked your Xzar picture ;D
Agree... this "nice guys finish last, woe is me" stuff is all an excuse dudes use to feel better about themselves. I don't like how some people use the word "friend zone" as if it is a bad thing. Someone made you their freind! How dare she, what a bitch! We all know that if you are nice to someone you therefore have the right to sleep with them! I mean come on! That said, the "friend zone" does exist... you guys are all in my friend zone (d'aawwww). Very few people are compatible romantically, so don't be sad if one person doesn't share your feelings. There are plenty of other great girls or guys out there waiting for a cool nice guy or girl to come get em.
And if u live in my area u can take me on a date, u seem nice and into BG.
I think she liked your Xzar picture ;D
Agree... this "nice guys finish last, woe is me" stuff is all an excuse dudes use to feel better about themselves. I don't like how some people use the word "friend zone" as if it is a bad thing. Someone made you their freind! How dare she, what a bitch! We all know that if you are nice to someone you therefore have the right to sleep with them! I mean come on! That said, the "friend zone" does exist... you guys are all in my friend zone (d'aawwww). Very few people are compatible romantically, so don't be sad if one person doesn't share your feelings. There are plenty of other great girls or guys out there waiting for a cool nice guy or girl to come get em.
The girls I was talking about was my friend for more than an half year..... She really wanted me at all, I could have been better, and I could have a girl friend now, fuck my pride guys, sometimes I am damn too prideful, I think we (she and me) learned the same :P......
But seriously, thanks for the post. Very helpful and insightful.
I'm less and less convinced this thing is going to work with Hannah but I'm also not too upset. I guess this is part of growing up. Weird.
@booinyoureyes made a lovely post about the "friend zone," very well put, most people tend to take extreme stances unfortunately (women very intentionally "friend zone" guys to shut them down vs. friend zone doesn't even exist. Both sides should probably be shot) so thank you for that contribution.
You seem like a fairly intelligent young man (and I don't mean that condescendingly, really), but you are missing some things because you haven't made the appropriate mistakes. I'm going to share with you hard-won knowledge, and I hope that you pay attention.
Contrary to what you likely think, girls people do not respond to words as the event to breach the 'friendzone' (which is wholly an artifact of confirmation bias). This may not really fit the popular social narrative, but it is true. Words open the door, and can lock it behind you, but stepping through is an action. She will not initiate that action.
Ok, lets spell it out... kiss her! There is no possibility of a 'bad' reaction - either she will react positively and you've made that step, or she will not and has either already made up her mind about you, or you have made your intentions clear and the ball is now in her court to process for a while. This is serious Litany of Gendlin time here. Stop making excuses about distance and logistics, seriously - that stuff can be worked out - you sound like you are convincing yourself of a hypothesis without doing any testing.
tl;dr, you need to be willing to lose in order to win.
Honestly physical contact is important in building back and forth, but do NOT go for a randomly timed awkward kiss lol. Try to just be comfortable with a gentle touch here and there with a hand on a shoulder first, then a hug or a hand hold and then later a kiss. LIke... natural progression.
I agree to initiate physically... but don't just kiss her unless Crevs give you the number of his clearly very talented attorney
Honestly physical contact is important in building back and forth, but do NOT go for a randomly timed awkward kiss lol. Try to just be comfortable with a gentle touch here and there with a hand on a shoulder first, then a hug or a hand hold and then later a kiss. LIke... natural progression.
I agree to initiate physically... but don't just kiss her unless Crevs give you the number of his clearly very talented attorney
Fair enough - the point I was trying to make (inadequately), was that such a progression should be relatively rapid. Over the course of the encounter, not over the course of several encounters (unless it is actually appropriate to do so, but you need to not use this as a justification to back off). A natural progression is appropriate and useful - timidity is not. Unobtrusive and socially appropriate, but very obvious (to her, don't turn it into a show, heh) touching, and if you aren't rejected - go for it.
You aren't sneaking up on her, here, she knows what is going on. You aren't trying to convince her that you are date-able, if she didn't think that already she wouldn't be spending time with you at this point. You are demonstrating that you are willing to risk social anxiety for her. Don't be inappropriate, but don't be coy.
Is my general theme coming across?~
*edits!*
That post of @CrevsDaak doesn't seem to exist, incidentally.
@Quartz: I think I missed something here, but I don't understand your attitude towards @LadyRhian. You say you disagree a lot with her and thus do not want to interact with her. I think this is a wholly bad attitude. What if Hannah were to disagree with you on something? Would you also just get mad and walk away? Then the relationship won't last long, lol. People have different opinions and get into heated debates, but in the end it's about agreeing to disagree with respect for eachother. Hardheadedness usually leads nowhere. I know because I'm a very prideful person with strong opinions on certain matters. ;p
Also, I think you're overthinking this too much. And I actually think this Hannah girl is still in the 'friend' phase with you. It seems you two can get along well, but there haven't really been any signs of progress. This means two things: a) She thinks of you as a mere friend (which isn't bad) or b) she's still in doubt and thus doesn't undertake steps. Could you tell us more about her personality? Is she a shy girl? Or does she usually say her opinion outright into people's face? Also, what were the reasons she gave for refusing a date four times? I think four times is already quite much. If she really were into you, she wouldn't have made excuses and postponed other things just to have some fun with you. At least, it's what I would do (except for in times of exams, those will always get priority). I think you should try to invite here once more for a date, and tell her on that date that you like her. Immediately kissing her will only leave her confused (my boyfriend did that to me, lol) and might result into akwardness and a negative outcome. So don't be too forward yet. As people suggested, start with small physical approaches. A hand on a shoulder, high-fiving, teasing. She'll show you herself where the line lies and how far she's willing to go. You might even end up holding hands on that date, which should definitely be a good sign of progression. Take her somewhere nice, even something as silly as a comic convention (if she likes comics) or maybe even to a shopping mall. Personally love shopping malls, even though my boyfriend always ends up broke for some mysterious reason... XD
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud Uhh ... somewhere in-between? When Hannah was younger, she seemed pretty shy but nowadays she seems pretty comfortable in her own skin. That said, she doesn't blurt out her opinions all the time; but she holds pretty strong to her opinions nonetheless. She strikes me as strong-willed, but secure enough to not feel the need to over-compensate.
Here are the reasons, as requested:
Monday, December 23rd We had a rough plan set up for the afternoon. Either food then movie or movie then food; I don't like doing just movies, for reasons that have been stated by some others in this thread. I told her to get back to me. Turned out to be a mistake so I ended up finally asking her what was up 11:30 AM, and she says "Haha, well we're about to start playing a game so I don't really know when would be good. Maybe we can try sometime after Christmas?" (She's talking about her family. Also she had her oldest brother and his wife over, which is fairly special. So I was like yeah ok I saw that one coming honestly I was flattered she even considered trying to see me during this time.) Sunday, December 29th We had another plan set up ... for the following day. Again movie food idea. Then more family stuff "Oh, hey, I just remembered tomorrow is Hero Scape day yeah, tomorrow's not gonna work." (After this is cancelled we talk a little more about what other future days could be work. I once again make the mistake of saying "let me know.")
And this is sorta relevant but sorta not. I feel like including it. Wednesday, January 1st, 12:04 AM (I sent this same initial message to several people, separately) Me: HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!! Hannah: YAAAAAAAAY!!!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!! *blows kiss* Me: *blows kiss back atchu* Hannah: At this point I'm just like ...
Friday, January 3rd A little casual talking, and I ask if she's given any thought. I'm like screw it let's go to Jamba Juice. We plan for Sunday 2 PM. Sunday at 12:50 PM I ask if she needs a ride. She says yes. Then like a few minutes later "Hey, actually, it looks like I have some stuff to do today so mom doesn't want me to go. T-T We have the worst luck ever"
OK so apparently I was wrong, three cancellations not four. I lost count honestly.
-----------
And I don't mean to ignore any posts about telling me to man up or some such. They are relevant opinions and I asked for them, and I believe there is wisdom in most of them. I just don't have much to say because honestly, my confidence seems to come to me in waves. I was on top of the world two years ago and now I'm back to feeling like dirt; we humans are ultimately products of our environment. I definitely try to remain confident (my confidence is no longer on the decline, thankfully), so there's that.
I'm getting people telling me to "man up" and I'm getting people telling me to "be yourself." Truth is, acting super confident would be an outright lie at this point in my life. If I am dating to try and find my match, then she needs to be suited for the long haul. If she has zero interest in me when I'm not at my best (and yet, not at my worst), then ... the chemistry isn't there, obviously. It's really that simple.
Now I'm sure I'll get some lecture about, "wow man, you are just pitying yourself. Don't expect to ever get anywhere when you won't try." And quite simply, I am trying. I'm sorry that I have no rock-solid "proof" that's probably wanted. Just gonna have to take my word for it.
Last note on friend-zone; Alot of guys have brought this up in this thread. There is no *phenomen* that good guys "never get the girl" (so heteronormative), the person in question just isn't interested in you. You shouldnt put blame on someone for not liking you. It is THAT kind of attitude that will make you single forever.
Friend-zone is not in any way a guy putting the blame on a girl for refusing his advances, it's the state where a male inadvertently becomes a 'platonic friend' of a female who he was trying to initiate a romantic relationship with. Knowing when a woman is not interested in you is important for a guy so he doesn't push the issue further and realize he's just a good friend not a love interest. I guess my interpretation of friend-zone is why I haven't spent a single day alone. That, and a good dice roll, but thank you for your insight.
I'm getting people telling me to "man up" and I'm getting people telling me to "be yourself." Truth is, acting super confident would be an outright lie at this point in my life. If I am dating to try and find my match, then she needs to be suited for the long haul. If she has zero interest in me when I'm not at my best (and yet, not at my worst), then ... the chemistry isn't there, obviously. It's really that simple.
My respect for you just went up another level. You don't have to prove anything to anyone and you know it. I got nothing else to add my young friend, I hope you get the love that you deserve either from the girl you are actually interested in or the next.
@ennerect I don't agree at all with your approach. It is true that you should try and put out what you want, but honestly, do it with words instead. Being physical is not the main purpose, nor is it the main goal.
And again @Quartz , that she *blew u a kiss* doesn't really deserve a DAFUQ, I think it goes well in line with everything else she has been with you, nice and friendly. You are overthinking her cause of your feelings (Do you have feelings or do you just want someone to date?) and cause you lack experience. Take a breather! Also, I'm swedish, so it might take a wee bit longer than an hour to get to me.
I'm getting people telling me to "man up" and I'm getting people telling me to "be yourself." Truth is, acting super confident would be an outright lie at this point in my life. If I am dating to try and find my match, then she needs to be suited for the long haul. If she has zero interest in me when I'm not at my best (and yet, not at my worst), then ... the chemistry isn't there, obviously. It's really that simple.
There is a subtle flaw with your thinking.
Relationships are not homogeneous over time. Regardless of your overall level of self-confidence, you must step outside of your comfort zones are critical times in order to contextualize your interactions. This is why generally self-confident people have an easier time of this sort of thing, and 'nice guys' get 'friendzoned' - said 'nice guys' start saying things like 'well if she isnt interested in my in my normal state, then we couldn't get along anyway'.
I used to make this mistake quite a bit, and I guarantee you that my issues in terms of confidence and social awkwardness dwarf yours in magnitude handily (I have an ASD, actually)
1. If you want her to know you're serious, don't take her to Jamba Juice. Find a restaurant--it doesn't have to be a fancy restaurant, but somewhere with a waiter and menus so that you have a table and some time to small-talk over what you're ordering, without standing in line. Your waiter is your wing-man; if the conversation is starting to lag, a good waiter will know it's an appropriate time to come over and ask how the food is, which can give you both time to think about what you want to talk about next.
2. If you do go to Jamba Juice or a fast-food place, make sure that that isn't the date. Go to a movie, or a park, or an ice skating rink. A date is an event; it's the event that makes it special and memorable, and on a purely chemical level a good event will improve the other person's opinion of you by association.
Also, remember that she's seventeen. She's in her final year of high school, which means a lot of her attention may be on graduating and spending time with friends she might not see next year. Try to make your plans with her a week in advance, rather than a day. Find out when she's available, and set the event and the time then, so that when the time comes you're both looking forward to it, it's on your calendars, and there's much less chance of it being canceled.
Don't listen to advice about how to behave once you're on the date (not even the "be yourself" variety). In my experience all advice is bad advice--not because it's not well-intended, but because half the time you spend all your energy trying to remember what the advice was, which creates a dissonance with who you are naturally. The "dating game" is a process of learning who you are with that person, and if you change that formula by adding in awkward suggestions from a message board, you can't learn anything. It sounds like your first date went really well, and you did that without asking the Baldur's Gate forums for help.
So yeah. If you're worried about her not initiating, it's because she's young and she doesn't know what to do either (and maybe she thinks she's being too forward). Setting an appropriate event will show her that you're interested without having to say it out loud.
(The above advice is my own, and does not reflect the beliefs or views of Beamdog or its subsidiaries.)
Comments
I would highly appreciate if people stopped taking this thread off-topic though. Lmao. OK, most of your post was good, don't get me wrong, I appreciate the post overall. But this one got me; it's "my own fault" when she cancels on me four times? That's pretty funny. That is all I mean by "difficult." It is not a struggle to initiate, it is no trouble to vent my feelings. Difficult is being cancelled on four times. Oh, and our first date we had to replan about five times, too.
Worst-case scenario: things fail miserably. That being said, most people are generally expected to fail miserably in relationships at that time of life and the emotional distress of the failure will subside relatively quickly after which you move on and meet other potential hopeful relationship partners. "Nothing ventured, nothing gained", according to the proverbial wisdom. I can tell you that I certainly had some disasters back then; thank goodness I don't have to go through that again but it is one of those necessary problems for well-rounded personal growth.
Best-case scenario: she is the one. Nothing more need be added to this.
I also agree with Mathsorcerer. Ask her somewhere cool and interesting she's never been before. If she's a classy and well-read girl take her to a museum or a play. If she's cutesy then take her to a zoo. Try to avoid movies for early dates... they are chemistry killers and limit your ability to interact. I took a girl to an art museum in college for a first date and we hit it off pretty well and ended up dating for a while. These kind of activities are great for a couple reasons
A. It makes for great conversations and experiences that you can share afterwords
B. It is a chance for both of you to actually share things in a comfortable place. It gives both of you the "excuse" you need to be inquisitive without being pushy and to share without seeming awkward
C. It is more of an "event" as opposed to a "lets get ice cream" so she is more likely to look forward to it, and put thought into it. Any minute you're on her mind is usually a good thing. Also she is less likely to view it as a get-together that can be cancelled or rescheduled. She's also probably appreciate the new experience.
Good luck on your second date!!
I am around your age and have dated quite a lot, and slept around even more. I often get attention from people wanting to go out with me and its not uncommon for me to feel nothing towards people who confess their infatuation for me.
I think this girl likes you fine, but probably not more. If you do see her she probably enjoys the time spent, but obviously does not really want to make any bigger effort to make these meetings happen. She might be flirty, but that might just be her. I flirt with guys alot who I have no real interest in pursuing anything more with. And you live an hour away, that is quite a distance. It might be no problems for you to drive an hour, but I would find a guy who did that for me (especially if its an early flirt) to be a little awkward and off-putting.
Last note on friend-zone; Alot of guys have brought this up in this thread. There is no *phenomen* that good guys "never get the girl" (so heteronormative), the person in question just isn't interested in you. You shouldnt put blame on someone for not liking you. It is THAT kind of attitude that will make you single forever.
Anyway, I wish you the best in your endeavors and suggest you look elsewhere for people who show you more attention. You might hook with this girl later but I don't think you should obsess about it too much. And really, try not to obsess about dating too much overall. People our age usually have ALOT more experience than you currently possess, things you might consider to be *big* might be trivial to others, keep this in mind when trying to begin a relationship.
Good luck!!!! And if u live in my area u can take me on a date, u seem nice and into BG.
Agree... this "nice guys finish last, woe is me" stuff is all an excuse dudes use to feel better about themselves. I don't like how some people use the word "friend zone" as if it is a bad thing. Someone made you their freind! How dare she, what a bitch! We all know that if you are nice to someone you therefore have the right to sleep with them!
I mean come on!
That said, the "friend zone" does exist... you guys are all in my friend zone (d'aawwww). Very few people are compatible romantically, so don't be sad if one person doesn't share your feelings. There are plenty of other great girls or guys out there waiting for a cool nice guy or girl to come get em.
And everyone likes @Quartz as Xzar.
But seriously, thanks for the post. Very helpful and insightful.
I'm less and less convinced this thing is going to work with Hannah but I'm also not too upset. I guess this is part of growing up. Weird.
@booinyoureyes made a lovely post about the "friend zone," very well put, most people tend to take extreme stances unfortunately (women very intentionally "friend zone" guys to shut them down vs. friend zone doesn't even exist. Both sides should probably be shot) so thank you for that contribution.
You seem like a fairly intelligent young man (and I don't mean that condescendingly, really), but you are missing some things because you haven't made the appropriate mistakes. I'm going to share with you hard-won knowledge, and I hope that you pay attention.
Contrary to what you likely think, girls people do not respond to words as the event to breach the 'friendzone' (which is wholly an artifact of confirmation bias). This may not really fit the popular social narrative, but it is true. Words open the door, and can lock it behind you, but stepping through is an action. She will not initiate that action.
Ok, lets spell it out... kiss her! There is no possibility of a 'bad' reaction - either she will react positively and you've made that step, or she will not and has either already made up her mind about you, or you have made your intentions clear and the ball is now in her court to process for a while. This is serious Litany of Gendlin time here. Stop making excuses about distance and logistics, seriously - that stuff can be worked out - you sound like you are convincing yourself of a hypothesis without doing any testing.
tl;dr, you need to be willing to lose in order to win.
Honestly physical contact is important in building back and forth, but do NOT go for a randomly timed awkward kiss lol. Try to just be comfortable with a gentle touch here and there with a hand on a shoulder first, then a hug or a hand hold and then later a kiss. LIke... natural progression.
I agree to initiate physically... but don't just kiss her unless Crevs give you the number of his clearly very talented attorney
You aren't sneaking up on her, here, she knows what is going on. You aren't trying to convince her that you are date-able, if she didn't think that already she wouldn't be spending time with you at this point. You are demonstrating that you are willing to risk social anxiety for her. Don't be inappropriate, but don't be coy.
Is my general theme coming across?~
*edits!*
That post of @CrevsDaak doesn't seem to exist, incidentally.
Here are the reasons, as requested:
Monday, December 23rd
We had a rough plan set up for the afternoon. Either food then movie or movie then food; I don't like doing just movies, for reasons that have been stated by some others in this thread. I told her to get back to me. Turned out to be a mistake so I ended up finally asking her what was up 11:30 AM, and she says
"Haha, well we're about to start playing a game so I don't really know when would be good. Maybe we can try sometime after Christmas?" (She's talking about her family. Also she had her oldest brother and his wife over, which is fairly special. So I was like yeah ok I saw that one coming honestly I was flattered she even considered trying to see me during this time.)
Sunday, December 29th
We had another plan set up ... for the following day. Again movie food idea. Then more family stuff
"Oh, hey, I just remembered tomorrow is Hero Scape day
And this is sorta relevant but sorta not. I feel like including it.
Wednesday, January 1st, 12:04 AM (I sent this same initial message to several people, separately)
Me: HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!
Hannah: YAAAAAAAAY!!!!! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!! *blows kiss*
Me:
Hannah:
At this point I'm just like ...
Friday, January 3rd
A little casual talking, and I ask if she's given any thought. I'm like screw it let's go to Jamba Juice. We plan for Sunday 2 PM.
Sunday at 12:50 PM I ask if she needs a ride. She says yes. Then like a few minutes later
"Hey, actually, it looks like I have some stuff to do today so mom doesn't want me to go. T-T We have the worst luck ever"
OK so apparently I was wrong, three cancellations not four. I lost count honestly.
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And I don't mean to ignore any posts about telling me to man up or some such. They are relevant opinions and I asked for them, and I believe there is wisdom in most of them. I just don't have much to say because honestly, my confidence seems to come to me in waves. I was on top of the world two years ago and now I'm back to feeling like dirt; we humans are ultimately products of our environment. I definitely try to remain confident (my confidence is no longer on the decline, thankfully), so there's that.
I'm getting people telling me to "man up" and I'm getting people telling me to "be yourself." Truth is, acting super confident would be an outright lie at this point in my life. If I am dating to try and find my match, then she needs to be suited for the long haul. If she has zero interest in me when I'm not at my best (and yet, not at my worst), then ... the chemistry isn't there, obviously. It's really that simple.
Now I'm sure I'll get some lecture about, "wow man, you are just pitying yourself. Don't expect to ever get anywhere when you won't try." And quite simply, I am trying. I'm sorry that I have no rock-solid "proof" that's probably wanted. Just gonna have to take my word for it.
And I wasn't interested in a relationship with her (she was) but now I am :P.
And again @Quartz , that she *blew u a kiss* doesn't really deserve a DAFUQ, I think it goes well in line with everything else she has been with you, nice and friendly. You are overthinking her cause of your feelings (Do you have feelings or do you just want someone to date?) and cause you lack experience. Take a breather! Also, I'm swedish, so it might take a wee bit longer than an hour to get to me.
Relationships are not homogeneous over time. Regardless of your overall level of self-confidence, you must step outside of your comfort zones are critical times in order to contextualize your interactions. This is why generally self-confident people have an easier time of this sort of thing, and 'nice guys' get 'friendzoned' - said 'nice guys' start saying things like 'well if she isnt interested in my in my normal state, then we couldn't get along anyway'.
I used to make this mistake quite a bit, and I guarantee you that my issues in terms of confidence and social awkwardness dwarf yours in magnitude handily (I have an ASD, actually)
1. If you want her to know you're serious, don't take her to Jamba Juice. Find a restaurant--it doesn't have to be a fancy restaurant, but somewhere with a waiter and menus so that you have a table and some time to small-talk over what you're ordering, without standing in line. Your waiter is your wing-man; if the conversation is starting to lag, a good waiter will know it's an appropriate time to come over and ask how the food is, which can give you both time to think about what you want to talk about next.
2. If you do go to Jamba Juice or a fast-food place, make sure that that isn't the date. Go to a movie, or a park, or an ice skating rink. A date is an event; it's the event that makes it special and memorable, and on a purely chemical level a good event will improve the other person's opinion of you by association.
Also, remember that she's seventeen. She's in her final year of high school, which means a lot of her attention may be on graduating and spending time with friends she might not see next year. Try to make your plans with her a week in advance, rather than a day. Find out when she's available, and set the event and the time then, so that when the time comes you're both looking forward to it, it's on your calendars, and there's much less chance of it being canceled.
Don't listen to advice about how to behave once you're on the date (not even the "be yourself" variety). In my experience all advice is bad advice--not because it's not well-intended, but because half the time you spend all your energy trying to remember what the advice was, which creates a dissonance with who you are naturally. The "dating game" is a process of learning who you are with that person, and if you change that formula by adding in awkward suggestions from a message board, you can't learn anything. It sounds like your first date went really well, and you did that without asking the Baldur's Gate forums for help.
So yeah. If you're worried about her not initiating, it's because she's young and she doesn't know what to do either (and maybe she thinks she's being too forward). Setting an appropriate event will show her that you're interested without having to say it out loud.
(The above advice is my own, and does not reflect the beliefs or views of Beamdog or its subsidiaries.)
This is the first time I have seen a forum mod or game developer offer indepth dating advice to a single individual customer. XD
BTW, if it doesn't work out there is always Aerie, Jaheira, Viconia and Neera