Quartz' Dumb Love Life (Or Lack Thereof)
OK so basically this is me getting some stuff off my chest in front of strangers and some people I sorta know. If you don't care I question why you are even reading this, but that's cool you don't have to care. 
Also I'm posting this here because a lot of people on here are much older and thus wiser than me on these things. I know a lot of people will probably laugh at me because I'm mildly freaking out about something so petty and simple, that's ok; I have an obsessive personality, I blow everything out of proportion. Hahaha ok read on if you wish.
Ummm where to start. A little history I suppose. I have had very little luck with the ladies. I am 19 and I have never dated. Never kissed, certainly never had sex of any variety. I could sit around complaining about "the friend zone" all day and while it's a real phenomenon and worth discussing from time to time, a lot of times people start using it as an excuse for their own ineptitude. I don't wish to be like that. I often tend to get attracted to people I trust and already know pretty well, and not everyone is like that, so that's an unavoidable factor and that's alright. If their affection is bound entirely by something as petty as infatuation then they aren't really my type anyway, so no loss for either of us.
I have made several attempts to court a few specific ladies to no avail. I've also let like four girls down so I've done my fair share of heart-breaking. There was one I tried to gain the attention of for 2 1/2 years in high school, we were good friends, blah blah blah ... long story short it didn't work, but we had a fun friendship together, I only wish she hadn't very intentionally stopped talking to me after all that. Kinda gives me some trust issues, but not too badly I don't think. Umm there was another who was like, in and out of a relationship with her boyfriend and I tried to take her myself. Looking back that wasn't very nice of me, and I don't think I'd do the same these days.
Fast-forward to today ... There is a girl, Hannah, who I have known for about five years. We have never been particularly close but there has always been a sort of odd tie between us. She's a couple years younger than me, and the youngest sibling in a family I know quite well. One of her older brothers, Aaron, was in the same high school graduating class as me and our class was only 11 people so there's that. Then there's also the fact that their mother was the director for a series of plays that I was in and MC'd for one year, I could go on I know this family really well. This ain't exactly a new story there are lots of people who say "so my good friend's little sister got hot all of a sudden" and go on with their own little tale.
It's worth pointing out that I am pretty similar to this Aaron fellow. This gets commented on fairly frequently.
It was actually a good ... three? ... months ago that Hannah told me while we were casually talking that she appreciated me because I "treated her as her own person instead of Aaron's little sister" or something to that effect. OK that's cool. Oh and then about a month ago she was rather physically clingy at the Homecoming football game for my old high school. (Yeah I still like to go to some of my old high school events once in a while, what can I say I loved my time at the school and still keep in touch with some friends from there.) Like glomping me once and then hugging my side for a pretty long time at another point. So that was like ... "OK this is cool, but what is this" in my mind.
After that we wanted to get together sometime. Well lo and behold we finally found a time to get together, that was this past Friday. Her brother Aaron had just gotten home from school for the holidays the day before, and I was fearing that he would try to come along ... I love the guy, but you get the drift. If he came along that would be a pretty obvious indicator that "she's not into you." But I came up to her doorstep, and she came out pretty well instantly, closing the door behind her. Huh ok I was half-way expecting to end up going in the house and stuff, this is a good sign right?
So we just went to Jack in the Box because she had no druthers of what to do and that's my go-to in such a situation (or else Jamba Juice. Mmm, Jamba Juice). Well it was all very smooth. I'm not an awkward person when it comes to socializing and neither is she. I mildly flirted, I'm not amazing at it but I didn't do bad. She didn't respond at all negatively to said flirting, usually mildly positive herself, that could either be a good sign or else she's totally oblivious (experienced a lot of this with the 2 1/2 year chase girl I mentioned). We ended up talking for four hours before we went directly from there to a party together with some of our mutual friends. This party got boring fast and she left (with her bro Aaron, who was there at said party of course) and yeah I don't blame her one bit I probably should've left sooner myself God it was boring.
It's not super easy to get together with her, although not horribly difficult either. Hour drive? Yeah it's a lot to some people but I'm totally used to it. (Side note, turns out we are likely going to the same college come Fall 2014.) And while I text her and we talk some, there isn't that same spark that there is in person, of course. So I want to spend more time with her to try and continue to get a feel for things, soon. But she *never* initiates, and this concerns me. It's hardly an end of the world situation here, but I am finding that I am rather fond of her ... and I'm tired of missing good opportunities.
Questions, comments, advice, snide remarks, all welcome. Thank you for your time.
Also I'm posting this here because a lot of people on here are much older and thus wiser than me on these things. I know a lot of people will probably laugh at me because I'm mildly freaking out about something so petty and simple, that's ok; I have an obsessive personality, I blow everything out of proportion. Hahaha ok read on if you wish.Ummm where to start. A little history I suppose. I have had very little luck with the ladies. I am 19 and I have never dated. Never kissed, certainly never had sex of any variety. I could sit around complaining about "the friend zone" all day and while it's a real phenomenon and worth discussing from time to time, a lot of times people start using it as an excuse for their own ineptitude. I don't wish to be like that. I often tend to get attracted to people I trust and already know pretty well, and not everyone is like that, so that's an unavoidable factor and that's alright. If their affection is bound entirely by something as petty as infatuation then they aren't really my type anyway, so no loss for either of us.
I have made several attempts to court a few specific ladies to no avail. I've also let like four girls down so I've done my fair share of heart-breaking. There was one I tried to gain the attention of for 2 1/2 years in high school, we were good friends, blah blah blah ... long story short it didn't work, but we had a fun friendship together, I only wish she hadn't very intentionally stopped talking to me after all that. Kinda gives me some trust issues, but not too badly I don't think. Umm there was another who was like, in and out of a relationship with her boyfriend and I tried to take her myself. Looking back that wasn't very nice of me, and I don't think I'd do the same these days.
Fast-forward to today ... There is a girl, Hannah, who I have known for about five years. We have never been particularly close but there has always been a sort of odd tie between us. She's a couple years younger than me, and the youngest sibling in a family I know quite well. One of her older brothers, Aaron, was in the same high school graduating class as me and our class was only 11 people so there's that. Then there's also the fact that their mother was the director for a series of plays that I was in and MC'd for one year, I could go on I know this family really well. This ain't exactly a new story there are lots of people who say "so my good friend's little sister got hot all of a sudden" and go on with their own little tale.
It's worth pointing out that I am pretty similar to this Aaron fellow. This gets commented on fairly frequently.
It was actually a good ... three? ... months ago that Hannah told me while we were casually talking that she appreciated me because I "treated her as her own person instead of Aaron's little sister" or something to that effect. OK that's cool. Oh and then about a month ago she was rather physically clingy at the Homecoming football game for my old high school. (Yeah I still like to go to some of my old high school events once in a while, what can I say I loved my time at the school and still keep in touch with some friends from there.) Like glomping me once and then hugging my side for a pretty long time at another point. So that was like ... "OK this is cool, but what is this" in my mind.
After that we wanted to get together sometime. Well lo and behold we finally found a time to get together, that was this past Friday. Her brother Aaron had just gotten home from school for the holidays the day before, and I was fearing that he would try to come along ... I love the guy, but you get the drift. If he came along that would be a pretty obvious indicator that "she's not into you." But I came up to her doorstep, and she came out pretty well instantly, closing the door behind her. Huh ok I was half-way expecting to end up going in the house and stuff, this is a good sign right?
So we just went to Jack in the Box because she had no druthers of what to do and that's my go-to in such a situation (or else Jamba Juice. Mmm, Jamba Juice). Well it was all very smooth. I'm not an awkward person when it comes to socializing and neither is she. I mildly flirted, I'm not amazing at it but I didn't do bad. She didn't respond at all negatively to said flirting, usually mildly positive herself, that could either be a good sign or else she's totally oblivious (experienced a lot of this with the 2 1/2 year chase girl I mentioned). We ended up talking for four hours before we went directly from there to a party together with some of our mutual friends. This party got boring fast and she left (with her bro Aaron, who was there at said party of course) and yeah I don't blame her one bit I probably should've left sooner myself God it was boring.
It's not super easy to get together with her, although not horribly difficult either. Hour drive? Yeah it's a lot to some people but I'm totally used to it. (Side note, turns out we are likely going to the same college come Fall 2014.) And while I text her and we talk some, there isn't that same spark that there is in person, of course. So I want to spend more time with her to try and continue to get a feel for things, soon. But she *never* initiates, and this concerns me. It's hardly an end of the world situation here, but I am finding that I am rather fond of her ... and I'm tired of missing good opportunities.
Questions, comments, advice, snide remarks, all welcome. Thank you for your time.
4
Comments
1. She's probably into you. Her coming out of the house and closing the door is the biggest indication (according to my girlfriend who is sitting next to me, in case you value a female opinion) The touchy feely stuff is usually a good indicator too, but far from perfect. If she didn't want her brother along though, that is a *good* sign for you.
2. Biggest thing I heard is that she *never* initiates. How often do you initiate? Perhaps you should sit back a bit and wait until she does. The guy who always initiates comes across as kinda needy. It would help to know how often you text her, and how she responds. If you are texting her every three days or so maybe she doesn't ever initiate because you already are.
3. Big problem with texting and dating, from what I've seen, is completely purposeless back and forth. The spark may not be there over a written message simply because you are trying to make a convo out of nothing. If you just say things like "hey, how's it going" its mostly likely gonna end up with "good how about you" and then you'll be like "good" and then in your mind you'll be like "SHIT that was useless". Try having a text convo like a conversation you would have in real life. She might go to your college? Find something cool about your school she might be interested and then shoot her a text saying something like "hey, I just did/saw/found x/y/z on campus, I think you'd love it" or just something else she would be interested in (and has to be something you like too... don't fake it). Basically text convos should be like real convos, not just talking for the sake of talking (or "keeping in touch"). Try to emulate the interactions you had in person.
4. "Don't be clingy" does not mean "give up after a while". A lot of guys are afraid of "coming on too strong" (which is usually very bad) but people who haven't had much experience in dating usually take this to the extreme in the other direction. Show your interested without being a douche. If you try to hide it/half ass it can often send the message "I'm kinda into you but I'm too afraid to show it", which is *bad* and comes off as weak.
Basically dude, most guys have been where you are at some point. If you are scared of missing your chance then make sure you *don't*-go for it. For the most part, I think if you follow number 3 above you'll be fine.
Best of luck dude.
Its funny, half of dating is just trying to getting comfortable with the other person. No matter how compatible you are, you can't just say "ready. set. go" you know what i mean?
2. Dont worry about being the one taking the initiative, at least now, but you might need to step it up a notch - tell her you are fond of her or something simmillar - or that she looks hot/really cute in something (accompanied with a "wow"). Step it up until you feel it is right to tell her you want to date or the equivalent (if you want to). If you want something to happen, make it happen
Obviously that is how I would do it - and it fits my personality, it might not fit you, but I can somewhat relate to what you are going through, it reminds me of how I was at 19.
Good luck - and go for it!
Should've added a fedora. Ahh well. 1. That is definitely a good attitude to take; very confident, if a touch foolish. I like it.
2. Aye, the steady increase in flirtation. I'll keep that in mind. Also my curiosity is seriously wondering what you meant by "or the equivalent" xD
I guess that follows my general advice about pushing things a bit. Of course you dont want to send her dozens of texts, but few and romatic texts would be the route I would take
Also, generally a good idea to talk about it. Even if you dont get any worthwhile advice here I bet it feels good to share (even if it is with strangers)
I tended to put the opposite sex on some sort of golden pedestal and expected to be knocked back at all turns. With hindsight I can see many times when other people were interested in me, I was just too callow to recognise it or lacking in confidence to act upon it.
Be brave, be honest, take some risks with your emotions. If this girl is interested in you then it will likely be appreciated. It could be she is also nervous about the situation as well and is unsure of herself. It must be a bit awkward for her with you being a ex-classmate of her older brother.
If it isn't appreciated then maybe this isn't the right girl for you.
Be straight. Basically you want to show that you are definitely interested, but not desperate... even (especially?) if you are, lol
Just one thing: If you get a girlfriend, DO NOT PLAY DIABLO II. You'll forgot about her after cleaning the Cave, then, you'll have 28482 missed calls from her, and she will hate you.
Sounds to me like you just gotta ask her on a date sometime and see where it takes you. Good luck!
If the two of you mildly flirted and talked for 4 hours at jack in the box without it getting really awkward or the subject of the conversation focusing on some other guy she thinks is hot i think it is safe to say that she is interested. Her not initiating anything doesn't really strike me as an indication of anything considering how often you are texting her (stop doing it so much - when you get the urge just play bg2 instead for a bit and practice romancing someone) and the fact that some women for one reason or another just do not initiate things with people they are interested in.
Personally, from what you wrote i would say you already went on a first date to jack in the box. Now make a second date. Call her up, say look i really had a great time talking with you and felt like we really connected in a way that we haven't before and it felt really good to me. Did it feel good to you too? if she says yes then tell her when the two of you are going out again. Be decisive. many women are put off by wishy washy guys who don't know what they want. if she can't go on the day you decided on then ask her when the next time she can go and then go out then. plan something out that you think would be fun for the two of you as well as offering you the opportunity to have some privacy to talk and/or hook up. dinner and a movie is a classic go to if you can afford it. when you see her for this date compliment her on her looks. get in the habit of doing that. all humans (women a little more than men imho) like compliments and it will make her feel confident and comfortable, especially if she is a little shy or indecisive. try varying the compliments though, try complimenting something that everyone else already hasn't said to her: that gives the two of you something special together and lets her know that you see things about her that other's don't see, b/c everyone wants to feel special.
2 potential issues - if this doesn't work out then will it affect your relationship with anyone in the family and do you care?
if you two go to the same college as a couple then things could go south when you both start meeting lots of other people and it could turn into a long, slow, painful decline.
neither of these are reasons not to pursue if you are interested in each other, just some things to keep in mind. even if the worst case scenario plays out you are better off than always wondering what could have been.
okay i wrote alot more than i thought i would but take it for what it's worth. i hope it's helpful. good luck man there's no better feeling than the beginning of a relationship - so exciting. if this works out then you get to work on that first kiss next!
Well, I have only to say few things.
1. If you're 19, then you still have time, don't worry too much. I knew people who are >25 years old who never dated anyone, and they are the one with problems.
2. From what I can tell, you're in quite good terms with her. The fact that she doesn't initiate anything doesn't neccesary mean that you have a little chance for a relationship, you know. Usually, men are the one to "pick up" (no matter how much I dislike the naming of this) girls. In short - there is a chance.
3. I would like to congratulate the way how you took your previous rejections. I would never use something like "friendzone" as a excuse myself, if it wasn't for the fact that I directly heard from the girl that "I make a good friend, but she wouldn't date me". That's what I get from being a nice guy. I have no grudges against that girls, thought, I still have her photo in my wallet.
4. Best of luck!
"Hey want to go see the new Stallone movie Grudge Match with me this Saturday? I heard it is suppose to be good."
Is better than
"Hey, what's up. How you doing. I was just wondering if maybe you'd want to go do something with me sometime next week, perhaps maybe..."
If you aren't specific in what you want to do, she will always have druthers. The thing that she wants to do with you is have fun. You need to show her a good time. And whatever you do, you'll have fun if you're just yourself and are honest.
2. If she shows you affection like "hugging my side for a pretty long time," return the affection. I had to urban dictionary glomping, but ya. Returning affection when she gives it shows her that you are interested.
If there wasn't time for any affection (since brother just happens to be at the same damn party and she don't want no drama at home) feel free to ask for it when you part: "how about a hug goodbye?"
3. She isn't initiating because like boo said, she knows that you'll initiate or she doesn't know how to, or what to say first. She maybe afraid of rejection "what if he doesn't message me back?" mentality and will only start initiating once she knows you are actually fully interested.
It's a very fucking stupid dance we all have to do to get people to show we are interested. But just be yourself, be honest and confident and things will work out.
And don't worry about Aaron. He's not going to kick your ass.... yet.
Anyways, a few things comes to mind:
1) This forum is awesome! Both because you felt comfortable enough to ask such personal questions here, and the replies you got.
2) You said you are 19, and that she's a few years younger... I hope not by too much, or it would be wrong. :P
3) When it comes to romance, there are two general strategies...
a) "Go All Out" - Don't worry about whether things will work out in the long run, you assume it will and you pour your heart and soul into the relationship. You let yourself go, drop your defenses and allow yourself to love somebody unreservedly, it is probably the greatest feeling in the world, pure unadulterated happiness. Unfortunately, the downside is that if things don't work out (and statistically... the odds aren't good), this approach leaves you totally open to being hurt, and it hurts like a bitch.
b) "Play the Game" - You consciously do not allow yourself to get too attached too quickly. You "play the game", show lots of affection one day, and then draw back a little, so that she takes your attention and affection for granted. You believe the principle that the person who holds the most power in a relationship is the one who cares less, and you try to ensure that you are that person. This approach sounds a little amoral, cynical perhaps, but sadly, most people play the game by default, at least to an extent, and girls are typically better at it than men. This strategy can 'get you the girl', whilst mitigating the possible pain of something going wrong, but the downside is that there is a greater chance of something going wrong, and you will not enjoy the relationship as much as with Strategy a).
4) Whatever you choose, I wish you luck. And if this Hannah really is a special girl, then don't let her slip, and treat her right. It may sound a bit weird for me to say this, but the loss of innocence and the pain people suffer when their first relationship blows up is the reason why most people play Strategy b), and it is one of the most tragic things in the world, in my opinion.
I don't have any real advice for you (nor did I read all the posts here, sorry
While I am going to reply to bits and pieces I want to assure you I've been reading it all very carefully and taking mental notes.
She is turning 18 in July. Kinda far from now which sucks. Heck I'll be 20 by then. Aye, you are right I don't have too much to worry about. I'm good with people so I have no trouble with getting friendly with a girl, it's just that by chance it has never been mutual affection. As I said I've pursued my fair share and turned down my fair share. Yeah we both went in for a hug when she left that party and she piped up "see you soon" so I think that's a good sign. And then on the whole other hand, we both *didn't* hug when I first got her at the door, which I think is another good sign of "this is a date. We are not just friends this is a date."
I do not exactly recall my reaction at said game but I probably stroked her hair a little or at least put my hand on her shoulder when she was hugging my side. That would be my instinct. I'll be sure to play it up a little more if it happens again. Hannah is ... a little difficult to judge on that matter. Like she's shy but she's totally not at the same time. I haven't quite figured it out yet, although I was very much shocked when she laughed as much as she did when I quoted one of the most disturbing (yet hilarious imo, I am a total perv) memes ever:
So I think that says something xD Thanks; Confidence is definitely the one I have to work up. The sucky thing is I *was* more confident a couple years back (Senior in a small high school: Everyone knew me, I was the class clown, but still got great grades, a couple girls wanted me, I was the oldest in my Boy Scout Troop ... yeah, all very good for the ego), and it's since degraded somewhat, although I am happy to say it is no longer on a decline.
Honesty is my best trait so I'm good there. Aye. I'm not too godawful worried about that; Aaron thinks I am a cool dude, I think he's a cool dude. We both pride ourselves in being "the two best actors" when we were in high school and all that (arrogant? Yeah. But it was probably true), and we are definitely friends. We're not best friend status but that's always been understood between the two of us. I think the only reason I would have to worry is if I were an abusive jerk, and that's just not me; I might fuck up a relationship for some reason or the other, but chances are it'll be a group effort. I don't think I've ever been the only one responsible in screwing up even a friendship, so that's a good sign.
There have been other people in our class and other classes and such that have dated, it went badly, and eventually people got over things and surprisingly things have managed to go back to normal. This is why I'm not as scared as many might suspect me to be. Bahaha, it's really not a bad assumption! I started playing Baldur's Gate when I was five though; yes, five. In 1999. LOL. I like it when people are surprised of my age here; makes me feel I'm perhaps more mature than the average 19-year-old.
a) "Go All Out"
b) "Play the Game"
The way I see it, the wise thing to do is start more strategy B than A ... and slowly work in A when things start falling into place. It really sucks that we have to put up these walls, just like you said, but it's for the best for *everyone* in the end. "
Well said Quartz. It is a "game" and as silly as it sounds its important to build comfort and trust, no matter how great you think you'll get along.
Most people here seem to agree that you should basically be like Dorn and "Be Direct!".
"And then on the whole other hand, we both *didn't* hug when I first got her at the door, which I think is another good sign of "this is a date. We are not just friends this is a date.""
Good. If you went in for the hug before actually going out I'd imagine that being pretty awkward, lol.
Just so you know, my girl and I are madly in love and I'm probably gonna pop the question in the coming year or two, but if I didn't screw up with a million other dates I would never be as pleased with where I was today. So don't fear anything dude (judging from the fact that you post this on a BG forum, I think its fair to say you are not easily afraid)
best of luck
I'm on my early thirties and a lady's man as people say. My self confidence borders narcissism and I dated more women than I care for, but it wasn't always like that. When you work hard for years to improve your physique, your state of mind and your finances, things become much easier. Having some experience, I might offer my advice as well, take it for what it's worth.
1- Break the "nice guy" stereotype. When you're romantically attracted to someone, but you don't want to pressure them into a relationship, or ruin the friendship by expressing your interest or making a move, you'll end up holding back in a variety of ways, by making your girl feelings more important than yours, you'll never find a happy balance, communicating that your own feelings are not important, therefore stuck in the "nice guy, he cares about me in a best friend way".
2- Figure out what Hannah wants in a boyfriend, and work in being that for her. Don't just "be yourself", be more, for unless you have the Californian physique, you need to work on your attraction according to Hannah expectations. Don’t just say you love her and ask if she’s feeling it, too. While that’s bold, it can very easily backfire. Rather than having a conversation that has the potential to change the dynamics of the relationship in a negative way, bring her into your regular friend group for either a dinner or daytime activity. Have her interact with some of your other female friends. Ask people whose discretion you trust and who knows the both of you: Does she seem into me? Would we make a good couple? Don't spend your time guessing, gather your information before venturing forth.
3- Women classify men they date as either lovers or friends. Read the signals from your romantic interest, and build your self confidence so she can sense you're a reliable partner, not just a good friend. Being in doubt won't help your cause. She might be onto you and telling herself " he'll never make his move". A woman has no clue about your feelings until you show her. From there, play your cards as a gentleman and ask her out for a romantic date. Now she's thinking: this guy sees me as a woman, not the little sister of his buddy anymore. Good. Remember, self confidence: Never come as desperate, that's a real romance killer.
4- You've already gone in a date, sort of, but now plan the next one, take here to a place she likes, no more wandering into boring parties. It leads to friendly hugs, that's best friend treatment BTW, not a good sign.
There are always opportunities to break the touch barrier in a chivalrous way when you are together, brush your arm up against her's, place your hand on the small of her back. She's outgoing and friendly from your first date, there is less of a chance she will be upset or taken aback if you try to touch her. Hold her gaze longer, if she stares back, hold her hand:
1. She doesn't pull her hand, you already won, lean and kiss her. That's what a girl going in a date expect you to do anyway. Should have been your move in the first one, lest she thinks you're the one not interested in her beyond friendship.
2. She pulls her hand, she's just not into you. Welcome to the warmness of the friend zone. At least you know where you really stand and can react accordingly.
There is no 3rd possibility.
Best of luck to you, and kudos for trusting us enough to open up and share.
I am always that evil and, well, not so gentle with most of my friends, I tend to do so as a joke, but girls don't understand those jokes ;(