And @Talvrae, indeed, he didn't say anything about that, you are right :] i'm stopping it here though because religious discussions are dangerous on a forum :X and i'm too tired to avoid @Tanthalas arrows now >_<
which says: "The shares of Democrats, Republicans and independents reached on first calls were 37, 31 and 31%, respectively; on second calls, 36-30-33%; on third calls, 38-30-31%; and on fourth-plus calls, 36-30-32%."
Ds are far more likely to take the pollster's call than Rs are. A pollster needs to adjust for this demographic fact.
Bottom line is I claim 40-45% of gamers are female. I claim that females are avoiding this thread in droves, selecting themselves out of the discussion. Why should a female volunteer to identify herself? Wouldn't a female anticipate and avoid 7 pages of misogyny? Isn't it believable that females would generally click right past this thread without taking the poll? That's what i'm gonna start doing.
Damn those women and their mean tricks!!! Crying is and always will be cheating!!
Ohh and concerning the cola wars.. Coca Cola wins!
You know, i read a scientific study that had a collection of men sniffing a tube of 'liquid'. in 1/3 of the jars was water, in 1/3 was eye drops (for like dry/red eyes), and in 1/3 of the jars was female tears. well, little to no results in the water/eye drops (should there have been), but of the 1/3 that sniffed the female tears, 90% were more lathargic and passive. They went on to test it further and found that there are pheramones in female tears that cause men to become quite passive. They later did a study with half the guy smelling guy tears and half the guys smelling females tears, and no real effect on smelling the guy tears, but nearly the same results on smelling the female tears (less then 2% difference, it was like 88% or 92%, don't remember completely). And this study was completely blind, the people they were studying didn't know what they were sniffing.
So yes, it's a tool that women use against men, and we have little to no defense against it, kinda like the mindflayers and their damn stun/eat brains attack.
::Bangs her head on the desk.:: Please, not this men vs. women crap again. We just got over that! All I want to say to the Women's tears "Study" is how close are men standing to women when they cry? Because if a man is standing as close to me as he is when sniffing a tube of liquid, it's damn creepy. Stop it already!
@LadyRhian lol, hey, not trying to start a gender war or anything, just saying that women have alot of power over men by nature. My honest opinion of it is what a friend once mentioned to me, that a man is like a sword, and a woman is like a sheath. A sword will kill, main, hurt, etc, but when sheathed, is not a danger. I think that's very fitting. If it sounds sexist, not my intent, but i enjoy the study, and most scents are not noticed by the brain.
Let's see, there was a study saying that deoderant actually increases the divorce rate. That is masks the natural scent of the body, and it's been speculated that men and woman seek out mates from a sense of smell on top of other things, and that it's based off of instinct. That by masking the scent, it makes relationships harder. Not saying it's true, but it's an ongoing study and i do believe there is a bit of truth to it. My wife actually prefers when i don't wear deo/cologne when we're at home, as my natural scent seems to comfort her somehow.
@Bjjorick I dunno. I don't wear perfume or cologne. I only go with natural oils because I find such scents too overwhelming. When my mother used to wear perfume and hug me, I had the "Choking... can't breathe!" reaction (from the perfume, not the hug). Any perfume is TOO strong for me. I will flee the area. On the other hand, I can smell a smoker from across the room, and the scent of burning tobacco makes me literally sick to my stomach/feel like my lungs are closing up.
And I also think you need to listen/read to "The Female of the Species" by Rudyard Kipling. Women, when they fight, can be damn *scary*. Because men have rules about how not to go too far and whatnot. Women go for a scorched earth policy. Nothing is off limits- no attack, no "sacred area", nothing.
@ladyRhian i should know how to spell your name now, but from my understanding (tying this while watching the vid, i might learn something), since a female has testostorone and estrogen, the way they mix in a female, specially at certain times pre menopause, it can have an effect of lack of control. My wife can get emotional at times, and she usually tells me thank you for understanding her/helping her. Preventing her from going too far off center. But the thing i can't get through her head is that it's due to her that i'm so balanced, so the few times she may be over whelmed is minor to me. Love is what makes a person overcome.
Also, as far as what you say about scorched earth, i used to think that was more of an american thing, but my wife being a filipina, and seeing that society, i honestly think it happens more when there isn't a man around. Forgive that it may sound off color, but i think a family needs a mom AND a dad, and while one person can do it, the results are never as good. I say this coming from a family that only had a mom with a few bungie step dads from time to time, and seeing others with parents who seemed much less concerned with their children often raised better, more rounded kids.
Men on the other hand. You say that we have more rules and such, but i can tell you one thing, a man always learns and keeps in mind that at some point, he'll have to answer to a woman for it. Be it a mom, an older sister, a wife/girl friend. And women NEVER FORGET. NEVER. So easier to pull back sometimes and let things slide.
I'd like to see something like this in a BG game. Oh, and the "Thorough Vengeance" line? They turn him into a woman... And later, you find out he ran into some of his old comrades, who didn't recognize him (or believe him) and did to him what he and they had done to earlier women.
Hum I think you are both right. But can everyone please stop saying that there is a "weak spot" in men? Idk how many real fights you have seen but it's quite simple to protect those parts... And if a blow actually hit those parts, the revenge is usually... not pretty.
I've seen some nad shots in my life, its true, they exist. But I've always found them easy to counter with a knee lol so I don't get why so many evoke that as a fatal flaw.
@ladyrhian 3 things i trust, God who is with me always, My wife who supports me always, and my sons, who are my reason in all things.
As far as going for the 'nads, well, man sharpens man as iron sharpens iron. Your enemies may one day be your friends, and unless you're an evil man, 'do not inflict every possible injury that you can upon your opponent, for one day they may be stronger then you'.
@ladyrhian huh? they're down, you've already won. if they get up and hit you after you turn your back, that just futhers their loss, and people won't trust him anymore.
@Razor So it does! I am also reminded of a story I read about a supposed coup (as in, counting coup) for the Italian Police when they imprisoned the heads of the local mafia families- I think it may have been in/on the island of Sicily. Bad part, their wives took over, and they were worse and more ruthless than the men. They would send kids in school to make hits. Kids who were like, 11 or 12 years old. They would go after the families of their targets without mercy. In the end, the Cops preferred the men to be in charge.
As for this thread. I have nothing to add about nad shots. At least I have no experience with them that wasn't a self inflicted injury from playing street hockey as a kid. The only fights I've gotten into involved pushing eachother and taking a punch to the face.
@LadyRhian Yes but if the Godfather Part 2 has taught us anything, it's that even if you take out your direct opponents there is the likelihood that their descendents would come for you.
I am reminded of something said a few hours ago as I was running my D&D game.
I asked my players what gender I should make this adventuring NPC and someone said that statistically males become adventurers more than female so I should roll a d6 and if the number is a 6 the character is female. Otherwise they are male.
@ladyrhian okay, i will admit you won because i'm confused. i just said that women have power over men, you bang you head against the desk, convince me that women have power over men, and are typically evil in the aplication of that power over men, making me feel somewhat bad, then you claim victory and walk away.
@Elminster So the women know to take out the descendants as well as family. i.e. More ruthless. And the reason why women are more ruthless? Other women. We know that, unlike men, there is no line a woman will not cross to achieve vengeance. And women are less strong physically than men. Therefore, we have to be more ruthless to protect ourselves. It's simple math. Not only do you take down a foe, you make it so that they can never hurt you again. That way, it's much less easy to be blindsided.
@Bjjorick It was more in response to your second post: "lol, hey, not trying to start a gender war or anything, just saying that women have alot of power over men by nature. My honest opinion of it is what a friend once mentioned to me, that a man is like a sword, and a woman is like a sheath. A sword will kill, main, hurt, etc, but when sheathed, is not a danger. I think that's very fitting. If it sounds sexist, not my intent, but i enjoy the study, and most scents are not noticed by the brain."
I pointed out that women are not like a sheath, they are more dangerous than men.
@LadyRhian then perhaps better to say that a woman is the hand the controls the sword, as in many stories, the woman is the one to guide the man to his actions. Historically, there are many examples i can think of. But the old saying, behind every great man is a woman. Also, my twist on it is, Behind every beheaded man is a woman.
I honestly think that it boils down to love more then anything else. Some will see a man of power and seek to use him, some will see a man of power and seek to be dominated by him (not always in a bad way). I guess it depends.
The point of it all though. You mention taking out the man, and anyone who has ties to the man that may come after you. That is quite foolish. There will come a time when you miss someone, and while you may strike from the shadow, others will realize your actions, even if they don't act on it. You put off what you try avoid and there will come a time when you will face a cold hard retribution, and if not you, then your children, tempers in the fires of time and patience. While it may seem to be safer, in the end, it would simply spell your own downfall.
'A woman hides many things, and lures you with her secrets. She calls it allure and mystiqe. Beware, lest her web ensare he foolish, the unprepared, the lonely. But who can remain safe from this temptress? Alas, we will all fall weak at one point, and then her snare is set, and we forever lost.'
@Bjjorick Basically, better not to piss us off. I won't deny that there are weak women who seek to control men, but it's not all women. Today, we have a society that is so focussed on sex and sexuality, with tons of images in our media, that some women think that they have to be all sex all the time to attract a man. And some of us neither want to dominate nor be dominated. Some merely want someone to stand by their side with, who they can also stand by the side of, and face the challenges of life together.
I would no more say that all women are evil seductresses than I would say that all men can be led around by their gonads. Some men, yes. But not all of them. Those that are make it easier to attract women who want to control you, but not all women will be attracted to that. Maybe not even most. I resist painting all women or all men with the same brush. (Except where I am playing Devil's Advocate).
@LadyRhian it's always refreshing to meet someone who can hold up their end of a debate, even if it seems that i'm the one lacking in this regard. I truely feel that neither is more dangerous. A woman may be manipulative, but if she pushes too far to reach her goals, a man will usually put her in her place. I honestly think the best that either can do is try to have love for all those around him to prevent such things from occurring. if you love the man, you won't risk him getting hurt by sending him into the front lines.
but yeah, this convo reminds me so much of khalid and jeheria. She the strong dominating one who has her man whipped. I did romance her once just so i could snap her back into line when she tried it and i got great satisfaction from it. I think the lowest thing one person can do to another is lie to them, and manipulation is a lie in my eyes. Men try it as well, but usually fall back into the habit of just acting like they've got the bigger dick. No offense to anyone who reads this post. Why? Because it works.
But to your addage, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned? i don't think you said it directly, but very much so throughout all you've posted. A woman will hurt you bad, but you'll live, even if you never live down the shame of it. A man, and much to his credit i think, will simply kill you if he's going to hurt you that badly. Why should others suffer greatly for your foolishness? They will suffer and heal easier that way.
I did romance her once just so i could snap her back into line when she tried it and i got great satisfaction from it. I think the lowest thing one person can do to another is lie to them, and manipulation is a lie in my eyes.
@Bjjorick Thank you. 20+ years on the internet and internet message boards tend to hone the mental skills and argumentation to a fine point.
Unfortunately, I have a bad reaction to "A man putting her in her place" as it has traditionally been seen as a woman's place being under a man. Like I said, I prefer "By the side of" to "under". Neither men nor women are "stronger" in an absolute sense. We have different strengths that are meant to mesh, and saying that one or the other should "Put them in their place" is a very bad attitude to have, in my opinion. And especially when "Putting the woman in her place" usually meant giving her a smack/punch/a beating.
I view Khalid and Jaheira as the other side of the coin from Skie and Eldoth. In both cases, one dominates the other. Neither is really a healthy relationship, but at least Jaheira only has one (and possibly two, given the comment she makes when and if he dies) statements to Khalid. The first being "Khalid, my dear, 'twould take a sailor to untie that tongue." and the death rant, "Blast it, Khalid! You die and I swear you'll never hear the end of it!" Whereas Eldoth is constantly putting Skie down. "Skie, my little angel, a woman should know her place." "Skie, don't bother me right now." and "Be Silent, Skie! It's not like your opinion is worth anything..." Plus "Stop your whining, wench!" and "Try to keep silent and speak only when spoken to." He also has this line to Shar-Teel, "Shar-Teel, your lot in life is to make cookies and bear children. Now, shut up!" So, arguably, he's about a hundred times worse than Jaheira.
No, I didn't say those words. I just pointed out that a woman can be equally as dangerous as a man, but we use different weapons, and not always a straight out attack. And if you're abnormal, so am I. Why be normal?
@ladyrhian woah, putting her in her place doesn't mean a smack/punch/beating/kick, nor anything physical. Let me say that first and foremost, because that was not my meaning. Putting her in her place is using her own mindgames against her and making her realize that she's not as smart as she thinks she is, and that just because she's with the pc, it's not 'Her way or the highway'. To hit a woman for any reason is to lose yourself. And if a man truely is stronger then a woman, his rightful action if he risks injury is not to hit her or hurt her, but to subdue her until she's calmed. I once angered the wife of a friend of mine. Something minor, i don't remember what, but i said something to her husband and she got up and walked out the room, making the comment about needing to put the baby down so she could kick my ass. We were pretty close friends, and they both explained later what was going on, but it wasn't even a matter of me being crass, but something else that had occurred just that day. She came back with a bat and swung at me. My choice? Tackle her? Knock her down? Hell no, she was between me and the door so i got up and ran to the bathroom, and locked the door until her husband could calm her down. He later came and got me and explained that someone was trying to take their baby and his wife was in a bad way. Sorry for the long rant on something just touching a single line. But i must also add, my wife's place is by my side, not behind me, beneath me, below me, under me, or in any other way. Only time i will take the lead is if i sense danger. Call it machoism, but i would rather be hurt then her or my sons. If i have one job, it's to make them happy, to take care of them, and i will damn well make sure it's done right or die trying. Beyond that, when she wants to take the lead, she is welcome, and is not my prisoner in any manner. My love for her is such that i know she must be free to happy.
Now for eldoth, if i'm not mistaken, he's the man that meets you in cloakwood and has a scheme to kidnap his girlfriend/wife/fiancee, something, to ransom her for money. Not once have i allowed him in my party, on the principle. Had he come to me much like the man in windspar hills (the umar witch city), quite in love and wanting to free the one he loves, i may have heard him out. I think i CLUA'd skie into my party on a playthough once, but she didn't strike my memory very well, mayhap because her story is tied to eldoth. Even as an evil char, i have principles.
Jaheria though. My wife is a strong woman, so is jaheria. My wife is a proud woman in ways, so is jaheria. My wife works with me on things, Jaheria tries to control everything, and this is where my satisfaction comes from. I don't agree with the controlling nature concept. IRL, in game. Call it another principle issue. So for me, snapping her back in line has little to do with her being a female, but more to do with her nature, and not understanding the boundries that have to exist in any relationship/group. She acts like a know it all for most of the game and tries to be a mother to the PC, but in the end, she has numerous flaws, most of which i felt she blamed on Khalid. I have killed her off in the game before leaving Khalid behind, but ehhh, he's not the same, and i do understand your earlier point that some men like to be controlled/bossed around. I've learned to accept that he's one of them, and that he draws strength and confidence from others. But when it came to her husband dying and her being ready to move on to the next person, my joy came from teaching her more that the love she lost could never be replaced then even from teaching her about boundries/control. But again, matter of principle.
for the large wall, i apologize. To any i put to sleep, well, we all play BG and rpg's, so it's not like we couldn't use a little extra sleep. To all those who didn't read through it all, you won't make it this far so i guess i shouldn't care. :P
@Bjjorick I didn't say *you* meant it that way, I said that this is what it traditionally meant- controlling a woman with violence, which is why I had such a strong negative reaction to those words.
Skie is Eldoth's girlfriend, yes. She's the naive daughter of Entar Silvershield. He's also (only) neutral evil in the game. I'm just saying that Jaheira is hardly the worst controlling person in the game, and Khalid even calls Jaheira out on what she says, saying she should be less abrasive. I don't see him as "Her Bitch" or as henpecked. She's a woman with strong opinions, but I don't think that Khalid wanted to be controlled and/or bossed around. I think she wants to be in control of her destiny, but then, don't we all? And she gets upset when it's beyond her control- similarly, we all feel sad and angry when our life doesn't turn out like we wanted it to be.
@ladyrhian I take the subject seriously, and i try to fight it at all turns. I hate songs like the 'anything you can do, i can do better' because why try to one up the other? I'm from alabama, far from the most educated or accepting part of the world. Commonly said we're about 10-15 years behind the rest of the world. Pretty true. I will also go ahead and point out that my not accepting gay/lesbians could be considered the same thing as racism/sexism, but let me counter that point real fast. There is a gene that determines skin color. There are genes that determine sex. There is no gene that makes one home/hetero. I also side with the bible, but i'm not going to go out 'gay bashing'. I would stand between gay bashers and gays simply because that's not the way. But i'll never accept their agenda, nor will i ever believe that they're born that way. Btw, i strongly believe that in order to fight evil, you must constantly and unceasingly fight the evil within yourself first.
So, while you make good points about khalid, and i promise to try to stay more on the subject, i've still gotta disagree with you. Where you say he speaks to her about not being so abrasive, i don't see him standing up for himself, but for the PC. He knows you're listening to what they're both saying and that they're taking a parental role, but that's the extent of it. I seem to recall his next line in that convo after Jahera responded was 'Y-y-yes dear....'
I guess in the end, forgive my poor choice of words. I gave a nod to jean_luc because i felt he understood what i meant, but you reminded me of the evil that still not defeated. Does make one wonder. Oh well, about time for me to switch back to my happy go lucky self.
@LadyRhies You're wrong because i said so. Beat that. :P
@Bjjorick I am dropping the whole violence thing because I think it's getting too much for this board, and I don't feel like starting another huge diversion here, okay?
As for Khalid, he doesn't seem to have a problem speaking his mind to others. And like I said, Jaheira only has two spoken lines that seem to be somewhat scornful of him. One is the comment about the tongue, and the second is the line when he dies. Sadly, I don't think I remember enough of his unspoken lines after so long, but still, I didn't get a feeling he was henpecked. Just that he had trouble being assertive, so she stepped in for him.
@Bjor- You're wrong because I know so. I Win! ::Tongue tucked firmly in cheek.::
@LadyRhian Alas, it is my sad duty to inform you that what your mislabel as knowing is just the delious dreams of a crazy person. I know the reality of it is quite sad, but any sane person would understand that you simply can't be right. Once i've said so, it's over, you've lost.
You know, rocks fall, everyone dies. I'm the GM, and whatever the GM says goes.
Comments
And @Talvrae, indeed, he didn't say anything about that, you are right :] i'm stopping it here though because religious discussions are dangerous on a forum :X and i'm too tired to avoid @Tanthalas arrows now >_<
If you are interested in POLLING, here's a niftynerdy source: http://abcnews.go.com/images/pdf/responserates.pdf
which says: "The shares of Democrats, Republicans and independents reached on first calls were 37, 31 and 31%, respectively; on second calls, 36-30-33%; on third calls, 38-30-31%; and on fourth-plus calls, 36-30-32%."
Ds are far more likely to take the pollster's call than Rs are. A pollster needs to adjust for this demographic fact.
Bottom line is I claim 40-45% of gamers are female. I claim that females are avoiding this thread in droves, selecting themselves out of the discussion. Why should a female volunteer to identify herself? Wouldn't a female anticipate and avoid 7 pages of misogyny? Isn't it believable that females would generally click right past this thread without taking the poll? That's what i'm gonna start doing.
So yes, it's a tool that women use against men, and we have little to no defense against it, kinda like the mindflayers and their damn stun/eat brains attack.
Let's see, there was a study saying that deoderant actually increases the divorce rate. That is masks the natural scent of the body, and it's been speculated that men and woman seek out mates from a sense of smell on top of other things, and that it's based off of instinct. That by masking the scent, it makes relationships harder. Not saying it's true, but it's an ongoing study and i do believe there is a bit of truth to it. My wife actually prefers when i don't wear deo/cologne when we're at home, as my natural scent seems to comfort her somehow.
And I also think you need to listen/read to "The Female of the Species" by Rudyard Kipling. Women, when they fight, can be damn *scary*. Because men have rules about how not to go too far and whatnot. Women go for a scorched earth policy. Nothing is off limits- no attack, no "sacred area", nothing.
Also, as far as what you say about scorched earth, i used to think that was more of an american thing, but my wife being a filipina, and seeing that society, i honestly think it happens more when there isn't a man around. Forgive that it may sound off color, but i think a family needs a mom AND a dad, and while one person can do it, the results are never as good. I say this coming from a family that only had a mom with a few bungie step dads from time to time, and seeing others with parents who seemed much less concerned with their children often raised better, more rounded kids.
Men on the other hand. You say that we have more rules and such, but i can tell you one thing, a man always learns and keeps in mind that at some point, he'll have to answer to a woman for it. Be it a mom, an older sister, a wife/girl friend. And women NEVER FORGET. NEVER. So easier to pull back sometimes and let things slide.
And another good video:
I'd like to see something like this in a BG game. Oh, and the "Thorough Vengeance" line? They turn him into a woman... And later, you find out he ran into some of his old comrades, who didn't recognize him (or believe him) and did to him what he and they had done to earlier women.
I've seen some nad shots in my life, its true, they exist. But I've always found them easy to counter with a knee lol so I don't get why so many evoke that as a fatal flaw.
As far as going for the 'nads, well, man sharpens man as iron sharpens iron. Your enemies may one day be your friends, and unless you're an evil man, 'do not inflict every possible injury that you can upon your opponent, for one day they may be stronger then you'.
man, you women are evil.
As for this thread. I have nothing to add about nad shots. At least I have no experience with them that wasn't a self inflicted injury from playing street hockey as a kid. The only fights I've gotten into involved pushing eachother and taking a punch to the face.
@LadyRhian Yes but if the Godfather Part 2 has taught us anything, it's that even if you take out your direct opponents there is the likelihood that their descendents would come for you.
@Dragonspear
I'll agree with your position on Pepsi.
I asked my players what gender I should make this adventuring NPC and someone said that statistically males become adventurers more than female so I should roll a d6 and if the number is a 6 the character is female. Otherwise they are male.
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
i conced????
I pointed out that women are not like a sheath, they are more dangerous than men.
I honestly think that it boils down to love more then anything else. Some will see a man of power and seek to use him, some will see a man of power and seek to be dominated by him (not always in a bad way). I guess it depends.
The point of it all though. You mention taking out the man, and anyone who has ties to the man that may come after you. That is quite foolish. There will come a time when you miss someone, and while you may strike from the shadow, others will realize your actions, even if they don't act on it. You put off what you try avoid and there will come a time when you will face a cold hard retribution, and if not you, then your children, tempers in the fires of time and patience. While it may seem to be safer, in the end, it would simply spell your own downfall.
'A woman hides many things, and lures you with her secrets. She calls it allure and mystiqe. Beware, lest her web ensare he foolish, the unprepared, the lonely. But who can remain safe from this temptress? Alas, we will all fall weak at one point, and then her snare is set, and we forever lost.'
I would no more say that all women are evil seductresses than I would say that all men can be led around by their gonads. Some men, yes. But not all of them. Those that are make it easier to attract women who want to control you, but not all women will be attracted to that. Maybe not even most. I resist painting all women or all men with the same brush. (Except where I am playing Devil's Advocate).
but yeah, this convo reminds me so much of khalid and jeheria. She the strong dominating one who has her man whipped. I did romance her once just so i could snap her back into line when she tried it and i got great satisfaction from it. I think the lowest thing one person can do to another is lie to them, and manipulation is a lie in my eyes. Men try it as well, but usually fall back into the habit of just acting like they've got the bigger dick. No offense to anyone who reads this post. Why? Because it works.
But to your addage, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned? i don't think you said it directly, but very much so throughout all you've posted. A woman will hurt you bad, but you'll live, even if you never live down the shame of it. A man, and much to his credit i think, will simply kill you if he's going to hurt you that badly. Why should others suffer greatly for your foolishness? They will suffer and heal easier that way.
But then maybe i'm abnormal?
Unfortunately, I have a bad reaction to "A man putting her in her place" as it has traditionally been seen as a woman's place being under a man. Like I said, I prefer "By the side of" to "under". Neither men nor women are "stronger" in an absolute sense. We have different strengths that are meant to mesh, and saying that one or the other should "Put them in their place" is a very bad attitude to have, in my opinion. And especially when "Putting the woman in her place" usually meant giving her a smack/punch/a beating.
I view Khalid and Jaheira as the other side of the coin from Skie and Eldoth. In both cases, one dominates the other. Neither is really a healthy relationship, but at least Jaheira only has one (and possibly two, given the comment she makes when and if he dies) statements to Khalid. The first being "Khalid, my dear, 'twould take a sailor to untie that tongue." and the death rant, "Blast it, Khalid! You die and I swear you'll never hear the end of it!" Whereas Eldoth is constantly putting Skie down. "Skie, my little angel, a woman should know her place." "Skie, don't bother me right now." and "Be Silent, Skie! It's not like your opinion is worth anything..." Plus "Stop your whining, wench!" and "Try to keep silent and speak only when spoken to." He also has this line to Shar-Teel, "Shar-Teel, your lot in life is to make cookies and bear children. Now, shut up!" So, arguably, he's about a hundred times worse than Jaheira.
No, I didn't say those words. I just pointed out that a woman can be equally as dangerous as a man, but we use different weapons, and not always a straight out attack. And if you're abnormal, so am I. Why be normal?
@ladyrhian woah, putting her in her place doesn't mean a smack/punch/beating/kick, nor anything physical. Let me say that first and foremost, because that was not my meaning. Putting her in her place is using her own mindgames against her and making her realize that she's not as smart as she thinks she is, and that just because she's with the pc, it's not 'Her way or the highway'. To hit a woman for any reason is to lose yourself. And if a man truely is stronger then a woman, his rightful action if he risks injury is not to hit her or hurt her, but to subdue her until she's calmed. I once angered the wife of a friend of mine. Something minor, i don't remember what, but i said something to her husband and she got up and walked out the room, making the comment about needing to put the baby down so she could kick my ass. We were pretty close friends, and they both explained later what was going on, but it wasn't even a matter of me being crass, but something else that had occurred just that day. She came back with a bat and swung at me. My choice? Tackle her? Knock her down? Hell no, she was between me and the door so i got up and ran to the bathroom, and locked the door until her husband could calm her down. He later came and got me and explained that someone was trying to take their baby and his wife was in a bad way. Sorry for the long rant on something just touching a single line. But i must also add, my wife's place is by my side, not behind me, beneath me, below me, under me, or in any other way. Only time i will take the lead is if i sense danger. Call it machoism, but i would rather be hurt then her or my sons. If i have one job, it's to make them happy, to take care of them, and i will damn well make sure it's done right or die trying. Beyond that, when she wants to take the lead, she is welcome, and is not my prisoner in any manner. My love for her is such that i know she must be free to happy.
Now for eldoth, if i'm not mistaken, he's the man that meets you in cloakwood and has a scheme to kidnap his girlfriend/wife/fiancee, something, to ransom her for money. Not once have i allowed him in my party, on the principle. Had he come to me much like the man in windspar hills (the umar witch city), quite in love and wanting to free the one he loves, i may have heard him out. I think i CLUA'd skie into my party on a playthough once, but she didn't strike my memory very well, mayhap because her story is tied to eldoth. Even as an evil char, i have principles.
Jaheria though. My wife is a strong woman, so is jaheria. My wife is a proud woman in ways, so is jaheria. My wife works with me on things, Jaheria tries to control everything, and this is where my satisfaction comes from. I don't agree with the controlling nature concept. IRL, in game. Call it another principle issue. So for me, snapping her back in line has little to do with her being a female, but more to do with her nature, and not understanding the boundries that have to exist in any relationship/group. She acts like a know it all for most of the game and tries to be a mother to the PC, but in the end, she has numerous flaws, most of which i felt she blamed on Khalid. I have killed her off in the game before leaving Khalid behind, but ehhh, he's not the same, and i do understand your earlier point that some men like to be controlled/bossed around. I've learned to accept that he's one of them, and that he draws strength and confidence from others. But when it came to her husband dying and her being ready to move on to the next person, my joy came from teaching her more that the love she lost could never be replaced then even from teaching her about boundries/control. But again, matter of principle.
for the large wall, i apologize. To any i put to sleep, well, we all play BG and rpg's, so it's not like we couldn't use a little extra sleep. To all those who didn't read through it all, you won't make it this far so i guess i shouldn't care. :P
Warning: Link may turn your stomach https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Domestic_violence (Yes, it's a parody, but it's pointing out what kind of attitudes come from history.
Here's a link to two Canadian PSAs:
Skie is Eldoth's girlfriend, yes. She's the naive daughter of Entar Silvershield. He's also (only) neutral evil in the game. I'm just saying that Jaheira is hardly the worst controlling person in the game, and Khalid even calls Jaheira out on what she says, saying she should be less abrasive. I don't see him as "Her Bitch" or as henpecked. She's a woman with strong opinions, but I don't think that Khalid wanted to be controlled and/or bossed around. I think she wants to be in control of her destiny, but then, don't we all? And she gets upset when it's beyond her control- similarly, we all feel sad and angry when our life doesn't turn out like we wanted it to be.
I take the subject seriously, and i try to fight it at all turns. I hate songs like the 'anything you can do, i can do better' because why try to one up the other? I'm from alabama, far from the most educated or accepting part of the world. Commonly said we're about 10-15 years behind the rest of the world. Pretty true. I will also go ahead and point out that my not accepting gay/lesbians could be considered the same thing as racism/sexism, but let me counter that point real fast. There is a gene that determines skin color. There are genes that determine sex. There is no gene that makes one home/hetero. I also side with the bible, but i'm not going to go out 'gay bashing'. I would stand between gay bashers and gays simply because that's not the way. But i'll never accept their agenda, nor will i ever believe that they're born that way. Btw, i strongly believe that in order to fight evil, you must constantly and unceasingly fight the evil within yourself first.
So, while you make good points about khalid, and i promise to try to stay more on the subject, i've still gotta disagree with you. Where you say he speaks to her about not being so abrasive, i don't see him standing up for himself, but for the PC. He knows you're listening to what they're both saying and that they're taking a parental role, but that's the extent of it. I seem to recall his next line in that convo after Jahera responded was 'Y-y-yes dear....'
I guess in the end, forgive my poor choice of words. I gave a nod to jean_luc because i felt he understood what i meant, but you reminded me of the evil that still not defeated. Does make one wonder. Oh well, about time for me to switch back to my happy go lucky self.
@LadyRhies You're wrong because i said so. Beat that. :P
As for Khalid, he doesn't seem to have a problem speaking his mind to others. And like I said, Jaheira only has two spoken lines that seem to be somewhat scornful of him. One is the comment about the tongue, and the second is the line when he dies. Sadly, I don't think I remember enough of his unspoken lines after so long, but still, I didn't get a feeling he was henpecked. Just that he had trouble being assertive, so she stepped in for him.
@Bjor- You're wrong because I know so. I Win! ::Tongue tucked firmly in cheek.::
You know, rocks fall, everyone dies. I'm the GM, and whatever the GM says goes.
Whoo-hoo, i am so smrt, i am so smrt!