To be completely honest, my experiences with the BG:EE games have soured me on the notion of future Beamdog projects in general - they just haven't demonstrated any kind of competence in managing post-release cycles for their games. It took nine months (minus the Atari debacle) to get BG:EE to a place where they could legitimately claim it had less bugs than the original; BG2:EE is four months old and practically all the new content is glitchy and/or broken, and nothing's happening with that because all the focus is given over to the upcoming Android launch.
I just can't see myself getting invested in another project of theirs, knowing I wouldn't be able to play it smoothly for at least a year.
Hm, @shawne your points are legitimate, but I think your expectations are too high. I think much of the problems with bugs that we experienced is connectid with Beamdog underestimated the amount of work it required to change the infinity engine. I would love a new look on IWDEE, right now I am too spoiled by the enhanced editions to go play IWD1, and I would love a similarily upgraded IWD to play.
Anyway, what do we have to loose if we have to wait a bit for all the bugs to be squashed? It's better if that is the case (and that seems to be a worst case scenario I might add) than no enhancing at all.
I like the wood look that IWD has, I hope that would not get changed if there is going to be an IWDEE. Speaking of IWD, is there a autoroller or some sort of control 8 function for that game?
@Aristillius: Not sure how expecting the game to actually work without encountering a multitude of immersion- and game-breaking bugs is too high, but as I said, that's just my feeling. Neither EE game had what I'd call a smooth launch, and I don't see the point in buying broken games that are just going to sit on my computer until their creators are kind enough to fix them.
@shawne - if you check out some of the DEV and MOD comments, the folks at Beamdog understand that they could have gone smoother at launch. They also own the fact that the Android platform is still pending after more than a year. No one is saying that things were perfect.
However, it is worth note to recognize the successes of the game. The enhancements that were put in DID quash quite a bit more than they generated, at least in my experience. They are also continuing to support the game post launch and for no extra money. That in itself is laudable.
But I do have to ask you what games you play in the last 10 years that have launched without "immersion and game breaking bugs". It's largely unheard of (again in my experience). No game is perfect. That isn't to say that we should blindly ignore issues. Absolutely, bring issues UP in these forums. It's the only way they will get fixed. But to hold any game developer accountable to a standard that the industry as a whole has proven incapable of, seems a bit uncharitable.
You don't like what they did. Fine and great. And absolutely there were flaws. For my own personal opinion, it is still an EXCELLENT game and a far sight better than (a) the un-EE version and (b) any other game out there on the market today. That's my opinion.
I have experienced almost zero bugs since the game was released. But that said, I did have a computer and a laptop that I tried to play the game on when BGEE was released, and it was unplayable because of the Intel graphic chipset problem. Fortunately, one of my computers had a AMD CPU and Radeon graphics card, and the EEs run like a champ on that one. I've been away from the game for a while, so forgive my ignorance, but was that problem ever remedied?
I'm not in full agreement with Shawne but I am moving in that direction.
BGEE
Right now BGEE isn't as bad as it could be from a version standpoint but it still is kind of a mess, particularly for beta testers. Mac beta testers for BGEE (at least from what I've been able to gather) are on 1.3.2032, whereas Windows beta testers are on 1.3.2033. I think the Steam/Ipad/Beamdog regular version is all at 1.2 so at least there is some consistency there. But I mean its been 5 months since 1.2 was released (at least on Beamdog) and there hasn't been any regular update (which is more relevant for Steam and Ipad users since they can't get the beta).
BG2EE
The Steam/Beamdog version of this I believe is on 1.2.2030, whereas I think the Ipad version is still on 1.2 (at least according to the app store and things I've heard from people having issues). If that is true then it just presents cross compatibility problems when one of the nice things about this release was that it would allow for people to play multiplayer with others through different devices.
The last non-beta patch for this was shortly after launch in November. Again, its been 4 months. Compared to their launch of BGEE their patch support for BG2EE has been pretty embarrassing.
Some of the issues people have had (like starting a custom created character in ToB only to get a black screen) can be fixed by simple workarounds (pressing M) but others like the bug where you can only use the slayer form once and the assign keys not all being listed were known about well before launch and should have been fixed before launch.
I don't think practically all of the new content for BG2EE is broken but lots of stuff about Hexxat certainly is. Her mist form gives people trouble when it just sort of sits there, Aran Linvail has an issue where this one conversation of his will loop even after you kick out Hexxat at his request, "Clara" will sometimes fail to die (which doesn't really stop you from taking Hexxat but it is kind of awkward). I know I myself have had some issues with dialogue in Neera's quest not triggering right in ToB and not being able to save during some of the new NPC ToB quests.
These aren't beneath the surface issues either (like enemies not getting their proper weapon proficiencies), which I would say the original game in particular has a lot of, but rather they are very obvious issues when you experience them.
Then of course there is the Black Pits 2 multiplayer which has its own set of issues.
@shawne - if you check out some of the DEV and MOD comments, the folks at Beamdog understand that they could have gone smoother at launch. They also own the fact that the Android platform is still pending after more than a year. No one is saying that things were perfect.
This was an acceptable response back when BG:EE was initially making the rounds. That the second game's launch was just as problematic - and that technical support has gotten worse, with only one patch over the past four months and no word about the future - suggests a rather troubling inability to learn from past mistakes. It certainly doesn't inspire confidence in Beamdog's capabilities.
However, it is worth note to recognize the successes of the game. The enhancements that were put in DID quash quite a bit more than they generated, at least in my experience. They are also continuing to support the game post launch and for no extra money. That in itself is laudable.
Laudable? They're charging more than twice the price of the original game, for a version that has more bugs (post-Fixpack, of course).
But I do have to ask you what games you play in the last 10 years that have launched without "immersion and game breaking bugs". It's largely unheard of (again in my experience). No game is perfect.
At launch? No. But if you want a list of games I was able to play within three months despite having major bugs at launch: "Eador: Master of the Broken World", "Fallout: New Vegas", "Mass Effect 3", "Evoland", "Demigod", "Divinity: Dragon Commander" and "Sword of the Stars: The Pit". And those are just off the top of my head. I suppose if you want to make a comparison that puts Beamdog in a positive light, you can always reach for "Diablo 3" and "Battlefield 4". I'm not sure that's a juxtaposition that does anyone any favors, though.
it pains me to say it but i'm the same boat as Shawne hear
while I do genuinely enjoy EE1 it took a long while to get to its current standard
BGEE2 however is a different story I recently finished my second run and I encountered bugs at every turn with scripts not triggering and dialogue not working, Ive yet to see what happened in Rasaads quest because I couldn't complete his TOB section. Also while I genuinely liked the original content in the first release I really don't get much out of the second title. I like Neera, but Rasaads bugs now just infuriate me. Meanwhile I have to actively try to avoid Hexxat whose presence has actually been detrimental to my enjoyment. So yeah I cant say id be quick to buy into any new title.
I think the part about mismanaging the release cycle is particularly salient. Its 4 months since release an honestly I'm loosing interest in the project before a number of major bugs have even been handled let alone new content being revealed
I think the reason why we don't get patches very fast anymore is because I've heard that people whined about how fast they were coming out.
That was when BGEE was coming out with them once a week (and in a few cases more frequently than that I think). This would have been when BGEE was first launched. I made this very same argument myself in probably January of this year but two months later I'll admit that we are long since past the point where its an issue.
@shawne - fair enough. No offense was intended. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Mine happens to be different, but I respect yours and your right to have it.
This does not need to be a topic/debate of what's better, BG or IWD. The question was, is IWD the next project to get an "Enhanced Edition?"
My answer is, no. My reasons are, the ways in which BG1 and 2 were enhanced, a la additional NPC's and sidequests, are not available as an option. The game is based on a "mercenary band" arriving at Easthaven. It has no room for picking up NPC's along the way. This removes the prime tool used to enhance BG1 and 2.
Any negative connotation toward IWD perceived by my reasoning is just that, perception. Not reality. It is not intended to disparage IWD in any way.
I never "clearly stated" that the lack of romances or playable NPC's make IWD inferior. I only said it makes it un-enhanceable. I stand by that, and I have YET to see any good reasoning that refutes it. All I see here is a bunch of "IWD is NOT a bad game!!" comments, which are completely irrelevant
I don't like the new NPCs, and I still play the Enhanced Editions. Am I refuting your point? No, I think you're quite right on this subject.
Also you mustn't take all the "IWD is NOT a bad game!! comments" as being directed at you.
This does not need to be a topic/debate of what's better, BG or IWD. The question was, is IWD the next project to get an "Enhanced Edition?"
My answer is, no. My reasons are, the ways in which BG1 and 2 were enhanced, a la additional NPC's and sidequests, are not available as an option. The game is based on a "mercenary band" arriving at Easthaven. It has no room for picking up NPC's along the way. This removes the prime tool used to enhance BG1 and 2.
Any negative connotation toward IWD perceived by my reasoning is just that, perception. Not reality. It is not intended to disparage IWD in any way.
I never "clearly stated" that the lack of romances or playable NPC's make IWD inferior. I only said it makes it un-enhanceable. I stand by that, and I have YET to see any good reasoning that refutes it. All I see here is a bunch of "IWD is NOT a bad game!!" comments, which are completely irrelevant
I don't like the new NPCs, and I still play the Enhanced Editions. Am I refuting your point? No, I think you're quite right on this subject.
Also you mustn't take all the "IWD is NOT a bad game!! comments" as being directed at you.
What is even more interesting is that the point of time @Quartz double posted is the same point of time he double posted on his own profile page!
Coincidence? I think not!
Good observation; it's no coincidence, I had this weird "Your message will be posted after it is approved by a moderator" message pop up. Then the same happened when I went to complain about it on my profile page haha ... anywayyyy, that's off-topic
@Shandyr Yeah I get the feeling I'm not the only one who has had issues. I actually wrote that post over a week before it finally got posted. I didn't even realize that it ever did.
To all concerned, the new spam filter has been blocking posts if you do not have a verified email address. If that happens to you, let one of the moderators know.
I'm not quite sure why they are focusing on patching BG:EE when BG2:EE is in much worse state. I think 1.2 would have been just fine for Android release of BG:EE.
Comments
I just can't see myself getting invested in another project of theirs, knowing I wouldn't be able to play it smoothly for at least a year.
Anyway, what do we have to loose if we have to wait a bit for all the bugs to be squashed? It's better if that is the case (and that seems to be a worst case scenario I might add) than no enhancing at all.
However, it is worth note to recognize the successes of the game. The enhancements that were put in DID quash quite a bit more than they generated, at least in my experience. They are also continuing to support the game post launch and for no extra money. That in itself is laudable.
But I do have to ask you what games you play in the last 10 years that have launched without "immersion and game breaking bugs". It's largely unheard of (again in my experience). No game is perfect. That isn't to say that we should blindly ignore issues. Absolutely, bring issues UP in these forums. It's the only way they will get fixed. But to hold any game developer accountable to a standard that the industry as a whole has proven incapable of, seems a bit uncharitable.
You don't like what they did. Fine and great. And absolutely there were flaws. For my own personal opinion, it is still an EXCELLENT game and a far sight better than (a) the un-EE version and (b) any other game out there on the market today. That's my opinion.
BGEE
Right now BGEE isn't as bad as it could be from a version standpoint but it still is kind of a mess, particularly for beta testers. Mac beta testers for BGEE (at least from what I've been able to gather) are on 1.3.2032, whereas Windows beta testers are on 1.3.2033. I think the Steam/Ipad/Beamdog regular version is all at 1.2 so at least there is some consistency there. But I mean its been 5 months since 1.2 was released (at least on Beamdog) and there hasn't been any regular update (which is more relevant for Steam and Ipad users since they can't get the beta).
BG2EE
The Steam/Beamdog version of this I believe is on 1.2.2030, whereas I think the Ipad version is still on 1.2 (at least according to the app store and things I've heard from people having issues). If that is true then it just presents cross compatibility problems when one of the nice things about this release was that it would allow for people to play multiplayer with others through different devices.
The last non-beta patch for this was shortly after launch in November. Again, its been 4 months. Compared to their launch of BGEE their patch support for BG2EE has been pretty embarrassing.
Some of the issues people have had (like starting a custom created character in ToB only to get a black screen) can be fixed by simple workarounds (pressing M) but others like the bug where you can only use the slayer form once and the assign keys not all being listed were known about well before launch and should have been fixed before launch.
I don't think practically all of the new content for BG2EE is broken but lots of stuff about Hexxat certainly is. Her mist form gives people trouble when it just sort of sits there, Aran Linvail has an issue where this one conversation of his will loop even after you kick out Hexxat at his request, "Clara" will sometimes fail to die (which doesn't really stop you from taking Hexxat but it is kind of awkward). I know I myself have had some issues with dialogue in Neera's quest not triggering right in ToB and not being able to save during some of the new NPC ToB quests.
These aren't beneath the surface issues either (like enemies not getting their proper weapon proficiencies), which I would say the original game in particular has a lot of, but rather they are very obvious issues when you experience them.
Then of course there is the Black Pits 2 multiplayer which has its own set of issues.
Personally, I haven't touched BG2EE in four months because I'm just not in the mood for it.
while I do genuinely enjoy EE1 it took a long while to get to its current standard
BGEE2 however is a different story I recently finished my second run and I encountered bugs at every turn with scripts not triggering and dialogue not working, Ive yet to see what happened in Rasaads quest because I couldn't complete his TOB section. Also while I genuinely liked the original content in the first release I really don't get much out of the second title. I like Neera, but Rasaads bugs now just infuriate me. Meanwhile I have to actively try to avoid Hexxat whose presence has actually been detrimental to my enjoyment. So yeah I cant say id be quick to buy into any new title.
I think the part about mismanaging the release cycle is particularly salient. Its 4 months since release an honestly I'm loosing interest in the project before a number of major bugs have even been handled let alone new content being revealed
Also you mustn't take all the "IWD is NOT a bad game!! comments" as being directed at you.
Also you mustn't take all the "IWD is NOT a bad game!! comments" as being directed at you.