A Ranking of the Divine Spells? (Now discussing LEVEL 7 spells)
Blackraven
Member Posts: 3,486
About a week ago @bbear started a thread in which he ranked the game's arcane spells in terms of usefulness, and placed them into three tiers: top, mid and bottom.
Here's the link:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30792/top-tier-mid-tier-bottom-tier-level-1-9-arcane-spells-talking-about-7th-lvl-right-now/p1
The thread sparked some interesting discussion and is turning into a good resource IMO.
I was wondering if there are people here who consider themselves well versed in divine magic, and who would be willing to rank the divine spells per level in the manner bbear is doing for arcane magic. Starting at level 1, and after a a few days moving on to level 2, etc. Other users can then give their views on each level-based ranking.
I for one am very interested. At the moment I'm playing a cleric/thief multi, and though I know which spells more or less work for me, I'm also convinced that I'm not making the most out of my divine spells... simply because I haven't tried them all out or because my playstyle leans toward using certain spells whereas another playstyle is served by other spells.
Here's the link:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30792/top-tier-mid-tier-bottom-tier-level-1-9-arcane-spells-talking-about-7th-lvl-right-now/p1
The thread sparked some interesting discussion and is turning into a good resource IMO.
I was wondering if there are people here who consider themselves well versed in divine magic, and who would be willing to rank the divine spells per level in the manner bbear is doing for arcane magic. Starting at level 1, and after a a few days moving on to level 2, etc. Other users can then give their views on each level-based ranking.
I for one am very interested. At the moment I'm playing a cleric/thief multi, and though I know which spells more or less work for me, I'm also convinced that I'm not making the most out of my divine spells... simply because I haven't tried them all out or because my playstyle leans toward using certain spells whereas another playstyle is served by other spells.
Post edited by Blackraven on
6
Comments
Clerics and their divine spells are downright a luxury in BG2, not essential. Really, anything they can do can be accomplished by potions/scrolls/rod of ressurection or a high level mage. (via Planetar)
Healing+cure stuff can be done with potions. Unlike bg1 there are a lot of healing potions, extra healing potions and even downright ridiculous super healing potions. (game feels like pok'emon at times :-D)
Restoration scrolls can be used by anyone who can read/write. (minimum INT 9) I think this is a bad nerf for clerics, it rips their uniqueness and removes their needed spot for a party. Any class can cure his own level drain. Likewise, any class can use the rod of ressurection and raise/heal party members. A planetar summon can do most of what a cleric can do, and can tank/fight x10 times better. This is even worse.
Chaotic commands are nice, but we have potions of clarity, berserk/rage, potions of magic shielding, etc. and the sheer high levels of your characters (low saves to prevent nasty psychic stuff) and not to forget shield of harmony. Turn undead is a nice ability on paper, but you can buy cheap protection from undead scrolls and azure edge to solve ALL of your undead troubles. Cast the scroll on Minsc, give him the azureedge and he will blast undead right and left much better than a cleric can.
To see my point, imagine if there was an item that allowed you to detect/disarm traps and open locks easily. Or a mage summon that can disable traps+open locks+pick pockets AND do heavy fighting with vorpal, dispelling swords, and they are immune to many nasty things with helluva resistances too. Not much need for a thief in the party, then!
In summary, there is simply NOTHING a pure cleric can do which other classes can not accomplish via items/spells. To add insult to injury, clerics can cast lvl 6 spell that reflects arrows back, and the game gives you reflection shield equippable by most any class that does the exact same thing. We can find more examples if we try, I am sure. It is as if the game designers did not like clerics at all.
Surpisingly, druids fare a lot better than clerics in bg2, whereas they were worse in bg1. Druid spells rock! Conjure fire elementals are among the mighties middle tier summons and can be cast a lot. They are immune to normal weapons, fire, and can pack a heavy punch, disrupt mages through their stoneskins with their fire AND kill trolls permanently. They also last forever and never turn against the caster. Strength+ease of use+utilty what can you expect more from a summon that is not a frickin Planetar?
Ironskins adds much survivability to a druid, as a cleric is prone to attacks, backstabs and spell disruption even if he dons the heaviest full plate mail. Call lightning is horrendously powerful, and can be cast in cities without irking cowled wizards. Insect Plague is the 'I win!' spell for most of SoA fights. Barring liches, who are immune to spell lvl, no spell caster can defend himself against this horror. Creeping doom will eat away even a lich. Nature's Beauty seems like a sucky spell (save at a bonus at this lvl?) but it blinds everyone without a saving throw, forever. It is a very powerful debuff if you do it right. And guess what? No other class or item/potion/wand can copy these things druids can do as well! (staff of thunder&lightning is much weaker, mage elemental summonings suck.)
I think game designers really nerfed the clerics as to make the game easy to play for those who play solo/don't want clerics in their parties. As a result, you really don't need a cleric in your party. It is interesting to note that, all romance options are clerics (or druid, in Jaheira's case) as if the game designers knew they made clerics now pretty useless and obsolete, and the only way to force them into your party was romance way. Sounds ridiculous, but actually, makes sense!
Who needs a thief when you can use knock to open any lock, use stoneskin/spell immunity to protect against any trap and use invisibility to scout?
Who needs a warrior when you can summon a planetar? Or when you can freeze the time and eat the brain/evaporate everyone?
However i agree that cleric have probably the worst situation since, as you explain, they have really nothing that can't be done as well or better by somebody else.
no other class gets a spell like harm, which is extremely devastating.
aerial servants are the best summons early on, in most cases way better than skeleton warriors. i don't know why people don't seem to use them? they usually hit for 30-40 damage and can easily get 60 dmg crits. no damage resistance but they have a lot of hp and a decent thac0.
sure, clerics aren't "essential", but then nothing really is, considering you can solo the game with any class.
saying planetars can fill the cleric role is silly, unless you're playing solo you won't get them until the very end of SoA at best.
The whole potion part of your post is just a bit silly. Of course you'll be able to find potions that do most of the things the cleric get from spells, but that doesn't mean the cleric is useless? Do you have any idea how many potions you'll end up having to drink for every fight? Not to mention if you do have a cleric you can sell those potions for quite a bit of money.
A cleric can buff close to every single person in the entire party, there aren't enough potions in the game to even start covering this.
100% Lightning resistance.
100% Fire resistance
Chaotic Command
Those are just a few of them, now you're going to have to get two potions to cover the resistance and one potion to make you immune to all those status effect, TO EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN YOUR TEAM, oh and did i forget to mention? FOR EVERY SINGLE HARD FIGHT IN THE GAME. With the price range going on 200-300 gold for most potions, you'll end up spending roughly 3 000 - 4 000 gold on every fight that requires pre buffing.
There are several spells which you can't get a potion to do an equal effect to as well.
Death Ward
Defensive Harmony
Protection from Evil
And we're forgetting that clerics also get Draw upon holy might and Armor of Faith which are impossible to get other places, and very powerful.
The cleric does not need a redesign nor does their spells. If i can save having to spend 3 000 - 4 000 gold on potions for every big battle by taking a cleric with me? I'll gladly do it. Turn undead is also an awesome ability that can make most undead fights trivial, remember not everyone play with a full party so for people with a smaller party that turn undead abilitiy is great.
The cleric also happens to be able to wield the best armor in the game and get a very low AC quickly. He gets many more spells than a mage does for his wisdom score (against the mages intelligent) has a much cleaner level up chart than the druid which is easy to level early on but then explodes when you hit 13,14,15. They get an awesome symbol when they hit level 25.
The druid has a couple of very powerful spells, but they are few and far between so the cleric actually has the better spell list of the two.
Skeletal warriors - > Any druid summon spell. They are immune to normal weapons, have a high health, great Thac0, immune to most magical spells, immune to status effects (hold,fear, etc) immune to level drain and mind flayer intellect drain. Nothing the druid has when it comes to summons are as powerful as the skeletal warriors.
And let's not forget Deva -> Elemental prince.
To make a little list for you.
- Clerics survive better than druids. (Full plate, large shield)
- Clerics deal more damage than druids. (Lathander 2APR/ Helm 3APR)
- Clerics will be able to sit on 25/25/25 (DuHM)
- Clerics will be higher level (Druid hits road block at 13,14)
- Clerics can get hold of more powerful weapons thanks to their proficiency
- Cleric kits are much more powerful than the druid ones
- Clerics have better summons with Skeletal warriors and Devas
- Clerics get turn undead while druids get... bad shapeshift abilities?
- Druids have insect plague and stoneskin
I love the druid and have played with them several times, but they aren't more powerful than clerics.
Yes there are items that replace or duplicate their abilities. Same with mages, but that didn't stop those discussions.
http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm
Top Tier:
Armor of Faith 4/5 - it's great by mid-SoA but spends BG1 mediocre. It scales very strongly with level.
Doom 4/5 - A -2 save penalty is always useful. Not OP but definitely as good as the competition at this level.
Remove Fear 5/5 - Useful throughout BG1, SoA and TOB. It's not gamebreaking but it's lower level than the mage equivalent, has a decent duration and protects from a common and annoying effect.
Sanctuary 4/5 - Invisibility is good. Invisibility that lets you prebuff, heal and open containers is better.
Mid Tier:
Bless 3.5/5 - I use it because there's not much else at this spell level and every little bonus helps in BG1. It's okay but nothing to get excited about.
Cure Light Wounds 3/5 - Eventually you get so many level 1 slots that these creep in just to get used for rest-healing. Heals a rubbish amount but it does the job.
Command 3.5/5 - Awesome at the beginning of BG1, rubbish against anything level 5 or higher. Use it at the beginning then swap it out.
Protection from evil 3.5/5 - Not bad, it's just nowhere near as good as Protection from Evil 10' Radius which lasts longer and does the same thing. If you get these for free on a paladin then they're good, spending spell slots on them is a waste.
Entangle 3/5 - Some people like this for soloing, but I've never found it useful. There are worse spells.
Low Tier:
Detect Evil 1/5 - Really? You couldn't find something better? Half the BG enemies have random alignments anyway, though this may have been fixed by the EE.
Magic Stone 1/5 - Don't waste the spell slot or the action to cast it. Just hit stuff with your mace.
Shillelagh 2/5 - If you really need a magical weapon, know it in advance and prepare this then maybe it's not useless. But given the abundance of magical weapons the question becomes: Why?
*Edit* I can't spell shillelagh.
@lunar: what you're sating may or may not be true, but is beside the point IMO. There is general consensus I think, that when one reaches late SOA and TOB single, dual or multiclassed arcane casters trump the other classes/kits (not only priests) in terms of raw power and versatility. Maybe only thieves can compete, once they gain UAI. The point is that the among the large amount of priest spells available at each spell level, some spells will be very useful, others less so, and some might even be pretty much useless. For those who are interested playing a cleric or druid, it might be very appealing to get an idea here.
@Corvino: I'm not going into the individual grades (due to time constraints), but yours is a good ranking, one that I agree with.
@bbear: I nver meant to cut the ground from under your feet with this thread. Maybe you could simply join in? If not, perhaps this discussion should be closed/stalled until you can?
Top Tier:
Draw Upon Holy Might 5/5 - Bonuses to all physical stats that improves with level? The ability to abuse it so that your character regenerates HP on rest? Hamsters and Rangers everywhere rejoice!
Hold Person 4/5 - Solid use of a level 2 slot, especially in BG1 and early SoA. Less useful as saves improve.
Mid Tier:
Chant 3.5/5 - One of the better spells at this level but still not amazing. I use one of these and a Bless for prebuffing but mainly because my cleric needs something to do as my mage loads up.
Charm Person or Mammal 3/5 - Druids, this is about as good as level 2 spells get for you. Long casting time, +3 save modifier. 3/5 is me being generous.
Silence 15' Radius 3.5/5 - Not a bad spell, useful against a couple of parties with casters. The -5 save modifier is actually good though the duration is short.
Slow Poison 3.5/5 - Situationally useful. Kind of undermined by the innate ability in BG1 though.
Resist Fire/Cold 2.5/5 - Again situationally useful, and it's not like Druids have so many "must have" spells at this level anyway. Short duration and only 50% resists are a drawback.
Find Traps 2.5/5 - Seems to tick more often than thieves' Find Traps ability. You still need a thief to actually disarm any trap though. Mediocre.
Barkskin 2.5/5- If you have a kensai and no Amulet of Armor then it can be useful. What else is a Druid going to take at this level anyway?
Low Tier:
Aid 1.5/5 - Heals less than Cure Light Wounds, same bonuses as Bless but single target. Meh.
Flame Blade 2/5 - Some use vs. Trolls, nothing more.
Goodberries 1/5 - They don't automatically stack, each one only heals 1 HP and they have to be eaten individually. The spell also heals for less than Cure Light Wounds. Bad.
Know Alignment 1/5 - See "Detect Evil". Useful in PnP, not so here.
Spiritual Hammer 1/5 - Can't even kill Trolls, thus worse than Flame Blade.
Top Tier:
Animate Dead 5/5 - 8 hour duration and tough summons that improve with level. Multiclasses will struggle due to slower levelling but single and dual classed clerics get an undead army. Great.
Holy Smite 4/5 - If you're good or neutral then it's a party friendly AoE damage spell, a rarity in itself. 95% of enemies are evil, and it has a save-or-blind as well. Nice.
Dispel Magic 4/5 - Affects party and enemies, so it's a double-edged sword. A useful tool if you know what you're doing.
Mid Tier:
Call Lightning 3.5/5 - If it worked indoors it would be far better. Does decent damage and is useful in BG1 which is more outdoors. Crap in SoA and onward.
Summon Insects 3.5/5 - Not a bad spell in itself, but once you get Insect Plague you'll never use it again.
Strength of One 3/5 - If your party are all weak then it's good. If anyone has a high strength score then it'll make them worse. Rendered useless by many STR-boosting items.
Cure Medium Wounds 3/5 - Only a small upgrade from Cure Light Wounds. It's not exactly inspiring but sometimes you need healing.
Invisibility Purge 3/5 - Okay at lower levels, but rendered obsolete by True Seeing.
Miscast Magic 3/5 - Only single target, allows a save at -2, 80% miscast chance. Not bad, but not as good as the alternatives.
Low Tier:
Cure Disease 1/5 - Waste of a spell slot. Diseases wear off quickly anyway.
Glyph of Warding 1.5/5 - Allows a save, damage is a bit mediocre. There's much better stuff.
Hold Animal 1/5 - Oh no, save me from the bears! I'm only level 5+! Oh, wait a second...
Protection from Fire 2.5/5 - Not bad, 80% resistance to magical fire is okay. But only okay.
Remove Curse 1.5/5 - The only use for this is if you use cursed items tactically. Or are a bit dim.
Remove Paralysis 1.5/5 - I guess someone, somewhere has used this spell. I never have.
Rigid Thinking 1.5/5 - No save penalty, affects one creature. If you want to confuse enemies then use Chaos, not this.
Unholy Blight 1/5 - Realistically the only people at risk from this are the good members of your own party. 99.9% of all enemies will be unaffected.
Zone of Sweet Air 2/5 - Don't stand in the fog, or at least just drag your enemies into it. The only times I have used this are to clear fog so that I can save.
Skeletal Warriors are not immune to normal weapons until they get the level 15 version. Also their health and Thac0 is alright but its really not their selling point. Once a druid uses Strength of One on its summons even the lowest hit dice form from summon fire elemental will have better thac0 and much better damage (3d8 crushing+1d6 fire) than a skeletal warrior (1d10+1 slashing).
Druids have insect plague and Iron Skins (the important difference being its casting time)
Druids also get their pick of the Deva's (either) and the Elemental princes. So I'm not sure why you are making Devas out to be an advantage for clerics. By this point druids also have lots more level 7 spell slots to use (compared to a cleric) so picking both is not as big of a deal.
Now that those corrections are out of the way...
With the exception of Shapeshifters druids can wear Ankheg Mail and a number of the dragon armors. So the differences between the cleric and the druid here are mainly regarding shields (and druids get Iron Skins which protects against many of the physical threats that shields would otherwise help protect against).
Cleric kits being more powerful than the druid ones is debatable. Shapeshifters are given two very defensive forms, the avenger gets Web (among other things) which allows for a number of useful spell/ability combinations, and the totemic druids summons get (in BG2EE) all of the status immunities given to Skeletal Warriors. They lose out on the magic resistance and physical resistance but for that they get 100% lightning resistance, better weapon enchantment levels, better stats and in some cases on-hit effects like poison or level drain. The cleric kits of course get their fair share of good abilities but I don't think its as one way as you are making it.
A cleric could get 25/25/25, but only if it started out as someone who could get 19/19/19. A druid main character can get DuHM until it goes to spellhold. So the difference here isn't really significant (at least in terms of BG2EE) until the mid-later areas of SoA. Constitution does little over 16 for either class and between 18 and 25 a higher dexterity grants an unsurpassable 2 extra AC (not a heck of a lot). Its really just with strength that this makes a difference. I'd give Armor of Faith a 5. Sure its not as useful in BGEE as other spells but throughout BG2EE its just pure awesome.
Doom I'd give a 2. It would be better if it were instant casting. Without that I think its rarely worth casting (with the exception of triggers for a cleric/mage).
Shillelagh gets a 1/5 because except with maybe a pure druid it is almost never going to be worth using (for instance its not worth using with Jaheira in the beginning of BGEE).
I've never used Shillelagh. Ever. I can see that it has some kind of potential use though which keeps it from 1/5.
As for Doom, loaded into Cleric/Mage sequencers it has potential. It's also one of the few level 1 spells that continues to have use throughout the saga. It no longer stacks with itself but does with Greater Malison which does give it uses all the way to TOB. It's not amazing but compared to the rest of the level 1 divine spells it's solid.
As for spell picks, with my limited experience with the stuff, I have found Doom spell particularly useful when it used to have a fast casting time of 1 in bg2. You can lower an enemy's saving throw in a blink, it really helps with greater malison+save or else spell of your choice. Now it is just too long to cast.
Armor of faith is useful at high levels, when combined with Defender of Easthaven and hardiness (either wish from a mage or fighter multi-dual class), and that helm of crushing resistance, the cleric can become nigh invulnerable to melee assault. It is cool.
Remove fear is an absolute life saver against dragons and anything that causes fear. (symbol stun, some demon abilities, etc) Command is ok in bg1, not so great in BG2.
Lvl 1:
Top Tier:Remove Fear, Armor of Faith, Doom (if it has a casting time of 1, it is middle tier at best with 1 round casting time)
Middle Tier:Command (semi-useful in bg2 after a malison) Cure light wounds (better than nothing, they are auto-cast when you rest so they can help in a pinch)
Low tier:Bless (only useful when you are like, lvl 1), Magic stone (I wish this bypassed magic resistance, it would make sense. A bonus damage to undead may have made it passable. Now the damage is just bad.) Other stuff.
About lvl 2 spells:
Hold person and Silence had its uses in bg1, now in bg2 they are too easily resistable and most mages carry a vocalise or two. Middle tier, because they are very very useful in bg1.
Problem with buff spells at lvl 2 is they have horribly short durations. Aid, Barkskin, resist fire/cold, etc. can be useful but their duration is too low. If you are going to pound a fire shield red+cold mage, throwing a resist fire/cold can be useful. Middle tier if you are generous. Low tier in most cases of low levels. Chant is an interesting spell as it both hinders enemies and helps allies. Long casting time hurts it, but a c/m can release it with a minor spell sequencer for fun. It is better than chugging a magic missile, anyway.
Draw upon holy might can be amazing, if you have 18 strength, this will make your strength skyrocket. Even better, cast this after Holy Power (lvl 4 self buff) and it will raise the str to inhuman levels. Top tier.
Slow poison is too modest. It stops any poison in the game, AFAIK. A lifesaver, always have one or two memorised. Top tier. All other spells are low tier IMHO.
The fire elementals die very quickly, can get feared, held and nuked down by magic. I'll gladly trade a bit of damage for a massive improve to survivability.
As i mentioned druids have a few good spells, many bad spells. While insect plague and ironskin are awesome, they don't make up for the other spells the druid doesn't have.
You have a 5 summon limit to your party, this is why i mentioned the Deva.
The druid have more level 7 spells earlier, but at the end the cleric will overcome the druid with level 7 spells. At level 31 the cleric have the same amount of spells, at level 38 he has one more. The cleric also have a much smoother progression when it comes to spells.
31 Cleric : 6 spells (+1 symbol) = 7
38 cleric : 7 spells (+1 symbol) = 8
When do you actually get your first dragon armor? And will you give it to a DRUID instead of someone else in your party that could use it much better? The only one that i would give to my druid would be the Shadow Dragon one and then the cleric can have a full plate that gives the same armor AND a ring of protection +2.
It's going to take a long time for you before you can get a dragon armor, the cleric can pretty much get a -1 armor right out of waukeens promenade for a hefty price and there are so many full plates just floating around amn. You can get your cleric -10 to -12 AC pretty quickly. You pick up many powerful shields early on in the game (+3/+4) which really boost your AC.
Ironskin isn't going to be that useful on a pure druid. On a F/D it's awesome but on your pure druid it's not going to be that helpful.
[The shapeshifter] kit is destroyed by the fact it only gets +2 on it's weapons. The kit is alright early game but useless mid-end game.
[The Avenger] is an alright kit and i enjoy playing it the most out of the druid kits. But the spells are very situational (Web, Improved Invisibility) while Chaos and Chain Lightning are great spells, you'll be able to get them otherwise. Out of all the druid kits the Avenger is the only one i would classify as 'great'.
[The Totemic Druid] Is a really interesting kit, but sadly spirit animals are worse than Skeletal warriors. This is their SPECIAL skill that is worse than a normal level 3 spell once the cleric hits level 15.
Unless i'm wrong here your spirit animals will still get destroyed by spells not to mention Mind flayers will rip them apart? I haven't played one in BGEE yet so i don't know about that fact.
Lathander gets +1 APR and other goodies which is a massive buff for no weakness.
Helm gets a +3 APR weapon that is +4. You won't be able to cast while it's up but you can buff yourself before you use it. 25 STR and other clerical buffs with 3 APR? Yes please.
We're not talking about 'main character' here we're talking about two classes. The druid does not have DuHM as one of their spells. And the difference between a character with 24/24/24 or 25/25/25 and 18/18/18 or 19/19/19 is massive. The amount of Thac0 and damage you get from that alone is over the top.
Let's take a look at that.
Druid 19/19/19
Cleric 25/25/25
The cleric gains...
6 HP regen/turn
+2 AC
+4 Thac0
+7 Damage
How is that not a massive boost?
I'm in no way trying to say that the druid is useless. But saying that the druid is better than the cleric is just plain silly. The druid have a few amazing spells but it'll still fall short when it comes to the huge pool of divine spells the cleric can draw from.
When you look at the Priest of Helm and the greater werewolf form of the Shapeshifter, it gets depressing very fast.
The PoH has better :
AC
Damage
APR (Same as druid)
Thac0
Regeneration
Magical Enhancement on weapon.
That Priest of Helm dude is going to wreck your Greater Werewolf.
Shillelagh has about as much potential use as a regular bastard sword. Except that you can't dual wield with it and it won't benefit from specialisation (like Jaheira's club specialisation). Is it better than normal weapons? sure! But unless you are using it with a pure druid it just won't be worth it. Clerics can get the +2 lightning hammer and stupifier early on so its benefit for them is extremely limited. Jaheira can use a regular club and do more damage (since she gets +2 damage, +1 thac0, and an extra 1/2 attack from specialisation).
The problem with Doom is that by the time you have Minor Sequencer you probably have Greater Malison anyways. You can of course cast both of them but in most cases doing so is either going to be overkill or just not as good a use of your cleric/mages time as you'd get using another spell.
I've recently made a cleric/ranger and learned a bit more. I've branched out into silence and hold person and bless stuff. I think my main problem is I don't use summons (I dunno why, it just feels wrong to have my characters not do the work) but I really want to change that.
I'm hoping this thread will finally let me try that viconia romance I hear so much about.
The difference between a cleric and a druid from a defensive standpoint really comes out in the shield but that doesn't compare to Iron Skins. Ankheg Mail has almost the same AC (slightly worse against slashing and missile weapons) as full plate mail so it really is the shield (and later Armor of Faith being better) that makes a difference. With Ankheg Mail survivability shouldn't an issue for a druid to begin with. Also the time difference between getting full plate mail and ankheg mail is probably about the same. The only difference is the cost. As for Iron Skins it has its uses. I'd hardly say it isn't that helpful for any caster much less a pure druid.
The Priest of Helm in some ways is similar to the Shapeshifter because in order for it to gain more than 4APR in a fight (assuming its dual wielding and use improved haste) it needs to use that sword. Like the shapeshifter by using its ability it loses access to spellcasting. The sword only does 2d4 damage and hits as a +4 weapon. However it doesn't actually do +4 damage. Its also not an ability that is easily castable in the middle of combat because of its casting time. It doesn't gain duration until above level 10 so in the case of particularly long battles (longer than a minute) you run the risk of it running out or being dispelled. You also only have 2 of these until level 20 so unless you are planning on resting a lot it is more work than it is worth. Having played one recently I can say there is nothing more frustrating than this. Its fantastic in BGEE but its only alright in BG2EE.
I really have nothing to say about the Priest of Lathander. Its a great kit.
Improved Invisibility is not at all a situational spell. If anything there are only specific circumstances involving an enemy mage (with True Sight) where it isn't very useful. A spell that improves the saving throws and AC of anyone (or any summon) in your party by 4? Yes please.
Heck even web isn't that situational. Most enemies get affected by it. Its really just the ones with high magic resistance, really low saving throws, or specific immunity to web that won't.
A shapeshifter's greater werewolf form gets -11 AC as a base. Along with 40% magic resistance, 50% elemental resistances, 23 strength, and 3APR. The greater werewolf only runs into problems in ToB and by that point you have Regeneration anyways (healing 18 health/round), Armor of Faith, and Iron Skins. So if you really want to fight up close with it at that point you absolutely can it just takes pre-buffing (which really isn't that much different than the Cleric). The only other period where a shapeshifter has trouble is between the start of SoA and getting the GW form at level 13, but for most of that you can cast at least one Fire elemental and it will clear through enemies. For most of SoA its one of the better tanks in the game (a fighter/mage or a blade will be better for that though). It in no way is useless mid-late game.
You can get 2 totemic druid animal summons at level 10 (a lot sooner than the level 15 skeletal warriors). Summoning two of the snakes is great against enemy mages because of their poisoning. Wolves are good too because they do cold damage which can bypass stoneskin/mirror images (plus the possibility of level drain never hurt).
If we aren't talking about main characters than how does a druid or a cleric get 19/19/19? Unless multiplayer is involved (in some way) along with tomes from BG1 that is not possible. So yea I'd say a main characters druid getting DuHM until spellhold is relevant if stats like 19/19/19 are being brought up.
6hp/turn doesn't really matter all that much. Its only good for overland travel and most of the places you are travelling to let you rest without getting attacked anyways. Its mostly the better strength and max damage/hit (along with the fighter Thac0 from Holy power) that the cleric gets that make it much better at up close fighting once pumped up than a pure druid. But I mean pure druids were never that great at doing damage in up close fighting in BGEE (even frankly the shapeshifter) with the exception of maybe the Avenger while an enemy is under Web, so I don't think that matters much. If I want a up close melee character I'll probably just take a warrior anyways because its less work.
"But saying that the druid is better than the cleric is just plain silly. "
Well I never said it was better or worse. The two classes clearly serve very different purposes and I think that's the best way to approach them.
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And getting back to the topic of the thread
Now for my top tier (level 1)
Armor of Faith 5/5
Remove Fear 5/5 - I'd really consider it more of a 4/5 spell but because it outdoes a higher level mage spell I'm giving it a boost.
Sanctuary 4/5 - I think Corvino made the case already for this.
Mid Tier:
Bless 3/5
Cure Light Wounds 3/5
Command 3/5 (4/5 in BGEE)
Protection from evil 3/5 - like others have said you can get it elsewhere and have it last longer
Low Tier:
Entangle 2/5 (3/5 in BGEE). The saving throw just kills it. Had it not been changed in BGEE compared to how it functioned in the original (not requiring subsequent saves once creatures were held) I'd give it a higher score.
Doom (2/5) Good effect; garbage casting time.
Detect Evil 2/5 - I'm giving it a better score than 1 because it makes Know Alignment look worse. I have to give props to a spell that makes a higher level spell look worse.
Magic Stone 0.5/5 - Does this spell have any use...ever?
Shillelagh 1/5 - see my reasoning above.
Top Tier:
Protection from Evil 10' Radius 5/5 - The game doesn't discriminate between evil and non-evil enemies, so this buff gives you +2 AC and +2 to saves for 1 turn per level. This spell is your friend.
Call Woodland Beings 4/5 - If nothing else, this summons a nymph who can cast Mass Cure and Hold Monster (level 5 spells). While it stops being as useful later into SoA it's very valuable for Druids in BG1 and early SoA.
Death Ward 4.5/5 - Duration of 1 turn per level, immunity to death magic. I don't use this spell enough and need to fix that.
Mid Tier:
Holy Power 3.5/5 - Setting your STR to 18/00 can be a pain but the bonus THAC0 and bonus HP are good for single-class clerics. Less useful for F/C multis.
Defensive Harmony 3.5/5 - I use this spell a lot, but it's a bit marginal in benefit. +2 AC bonus for 6 rounds is decent but not great.
Free Action 3.5/5 - Potent but situational. I'd rather use an item to get free action.
Lesser Restoration 3/5 - You'll likely need it at some point, but I think prevention is better than cure.
Negative Plane Protection 3/5 - Handicapped by limited duration. It's another fairly essential protection, but one that is much more conveniently gained through items.
Mental Domination 3/5 - Only has a -2 save modifier and immunity to Charm is common. Okay if you like that sort of thing.
Lower Tier:
Cure Serious Wounds 2/5 - For a level 4 spell it cures a mere 17 HP. *facepalm*
Animal Summoning I 1.5/5 - Not useless, just very underwhelming given how much better Animate Dead is.
Cloak of Fear 1.5/5 - Fear is just about the worst form of CC, and this is a pretty poor way to induce it.
Farsight 2/5 - Useful if you plan on cheesily sending summons to do your dirty work, otherwise not that good.
Neutralise Poison 1.5/5 - Does next to nothing Slow Poison doesn't.
Poison 2/5 - Has good damage potential at higher levels but has no save modifier. There are better ways to do damage.
Protection from Lightning 1/5 - I can think of only one place in BG1, SoA and ToB that I've ever wished for protection from lightning. So I put on some Boots of Grounding and everything was okay.
Strength of One I'd actually give a 4/5. Not because of party members (though it does help most of them in BGEE and the start of BG2EE but because of how useful it is for summons.
I'd drop Miscast Magic down to a 2/5. If you've got druid or ranger in your party then Summon Insects is generally much better than it (plus the insects tear through Stoneskin).
For the record even though Protection from Fire says 80% fire resistance it actually gives 100% fire resistance. So I'd give it a 3 for that and because it has a very long duration.
I'd probably agree that I've never used Remove Paralysis. Looking at its file I'd say it theoretically could be useful but its going to be a situational spell.
I'd give Zone of Sweet Air a 2.5/5 (mid tier) but only entirely because it lets me save lol. Just like you were saying. Without it Cloudkill and other such spells would drive me nuts with their duration!
Edit: Is it possible to dedicate some time in talking a specific level (one level daily)? Otherwise, it will get hectic as different people discuss different levels of spells.
Let us focus on Level 1 spells only for the next 24 hours. Tomorrow we'll move on to the level 2 spells.
I'm citing @Corvino here, because he already provided us with his ranking, which may serve as a basis for discussion. Feel free everyone to send in your (preferably substantiated) rankings, or to comment on Corvino's list.