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A Ranking of the Divine Spells? (Now discussing LEVEL 7 spells)

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  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited March 2014
    I would rate Zone of Sweet Air as 3/5 or 4/5. It makes certain fights so much easier, not to mention it'll help you out with your own cloud spells as well. Most of the time my clerics have used Zone of Sweet Air it's been to clear my own cloudkills out. You'll only ever need one of these spells in your spellbook, it's worth having one.

    I actually saved one of my no-reload runs by having Zone of Sweet Air on Viconia. Had three cloudkills out on the map and the enemy mage used chaos on my party and half of my party ran inside the cloudkill area. Viconia threw out a quick Zone of Sweet Air and it pretty much saved my team.
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    edited March 2014
    @Blackraven: The level 2 spell Flame Blade hits as +1 weapon and give +4 to THACO bonus. Unless this is changed in BGEE. The information is not in the spell description, but the effect is there once you cast it.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    edited March 2014
    @bbear Really? Didn't know that. Sometimes spell or item descriptions really aren't very accurate...
    I'm copying your comment as a note into the "consolidated" list, ok?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    bbear said:

    @Blackraven: The level 2 spell Flame Blade hits as +1 weapon and give +4 to THACO bonus. Unless this is changed in BGEE. The information is not in the spell description, but the effect is there once you cast it.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/1583/bgee-bg2-bug-flame-blade-fixes
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    Will adapt "final" list of level 2 spells accordingly. Thanks @elminster
  • ElrandirElrandir Member Posts: 1,664
    I agree with your list, Blackraven. Except for one spell. Strength of one. That said, I wouldn't make it as high as a 4/5 like Elminster, but it IS a good spell. Overall, unless you have a half-orc protagonist\Dorn, it's very handy in the first game.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    @Elrandir @elminster, you're right of course. I hadn't thought about strenthening Summons with Strength of One. Very clever. I do somethimes buff summons, but I simply never memorize that spell.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited March 2014
    Elrandir said:

    I agree with your list, Blackraven. Except for one spell. Strength of one. That said, I wouldn't make it as high as a 4/5 like Elminster, but it IS a good spell. Overall, unless you have a half-orc protagonist\Dorn, it's very handy in the first game.

    I would say its very handy in the second game as well. Fire elementals (with the exception of the very rare high hd version), Skeletal Warriors (including the level 15 version though the difference there will be marginal), any of the animal summon I and Animal summon II creatures, Any of the non-bear Animal Summon III creatures, most of the monster summons (the exception being the ogres), Wyverns, Invisible Stalkers, Spiders (giant, phase, sword), Nishruu, Hakeashar, and Mordenkainen's Sword (magical sword) all benefit from it.
    Post edited by elminster on
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    Does the Dragon version of Summon Insects do more damage? Or was I seeing things in my game. When my druid cast it, it does 1 damage per bite, but the dragon version does 2 damage per bite. Green dragons cast that spell.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    The druid spell is supposed to do one damage per two seconds, so that seems to be correct. It's possible that the green dragon has a different version of the spell. Maybe you could lookfind the corresponding spell in EEKeeper's spell browser? I did a quick browse and found a spell called Green Dragon's Breath (without spell description), but no other Green Dragon spells.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited March 2014
    bbear said:

    Does the Dragon version of Summon Insects do more damage? Or was I seeing things in my game. When my druid cast it, it does 1 damage per bite, but the dragon version does 2 damage per bite. Green dragons cast that spell.

    I did find a reference in his script to using "Black_Dragon_Insect" in specific circumstances. Based on what others have written online apparently that is the dragon form of Insect Plague (I'm assuming they are correct). So maybe that is it?
  • vangoatvangoat Member Posts: 212
    Creeping doom does 2 damage per tick I believe, whereas insect plague only does 1 damage. Maybe the dragon is using that?
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    vangoat said:

    Creeping doom does 2 damage per tick I believe, whereas insect plague only does 1 damage. Maybe the dragon is using that?

    He doesn't have it memorized. Its possible that the Black_Dragon_Insect is just another version of Creeping Doom however.
  • ElrandirElrandir Member Posts: 1,664
    One minor question, does Remove Curse affect the curse put upon you by Aec'latec? I thought it didn't, but it sure would be nice if it did.
  • ElrandirElrandir Member Posts: 1,664
    Also, one other recommended change to the list. I would say Cure Disease is deserving of at least another .5, since it also cures feeblemind, blindness, and deafness. (feeblemind being the most dangerous of the three)
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    @Elrandir:
    1) I think this requires a Dispel Magic.
    2) Good points, I'll take these into account.
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    edited March 2014
    Just curious, is there anyway to protect against summon insect, insect plague and creeping doom beside MR? I had spell trap and spell turning on and I still get hit.
  • vangoatvangoat Member Posts: 212
    run around in a circle until the enemies are dead and then just accept the damage?

    lol j/k. i don't think there is. once the bugs are in the air they'll hit you even if you go invisible. could maybe try mazing the character who's targeted with bugs before they spread to someone else?

    spell immunity: conjuration might work.
  • CorvinoCorvino Member Posts: 2,269
    Thankfully Insect Plague is only used against you very rarely. Not many druids try to kill you.

    If you know it's coming then a remove fear will reduce the risk of panic, or just stand your casters at the back away from melee and hope they're out of the AoE.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    We could probably move on to 4th level.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    Hey @Elminster, hang on if you will. I was just going to make a consolidated level 3 ranking as I've done with level 1 & 2 as well.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    That is no problem I was just throwing the suggestion out there :)
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    edited March 2014
    @bbear no unless you have SCS' "make Fireshields stop Insect spells" component.
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    edited March 2014
    A consolidated ranking of the Level 3 spells, based on everyone's input:

    TOP TIER:

    * Animate Dead 5/5
    The skeletons you get until level 15 are powerful allies in BG1. They improve with levels, and at higher levels two or three can take on an ankheg. They're also very useful against spellcasters thanks to their magic resistance. In the first portion of SOA they'll lose some of their usefulness until the cleric reaches level 15. The skeletal warrior he then gets, remains a powerful ally until the end of the game.

    * Holy Smite 4.5/5
    AoE spell that deals 1d4 damage (save for half) to all evil creatures within the AoE, and an in-built Save vs Blindness feat. Three of these can be sufficient for a higher level cleric to take down a dragon. Its only drawback is that it will hurt any evil aligned party members and that it can antagonize your summons, hence a 4.5.

    * Dispel Magic 4.5/5
    Only useful for single class clerics (since caster level determines the likelihood of success). Bards and Inquisitors do it better, but still a potentially very powerful spell both for offensive and defensive purposes, and a priest's only means of stripping enemy's magical protections. Be careful with picking the moment and the direction you cast it in, as the spell may also dispel buffs from your party members or harmful spell effects you already inflicted upon your enemies.

    * Summon Insects 4/5
    A good spell for disrupting enemy spellcasters and stripping them of their magical protections. It makes the target make a save vs breath at -4. Enemy mages have a much higher save vs breath than their save vs spell, so this spell has a much higher chance of success than other debuff spells, such as Miscast Magic. Over time it deals 21 damage to its target (minus any "layers" of Stoneskin or Mirror Image etc). The spell penalizes both the target's armour class and their Thac0 by 2. Downsides are its long casting time (9), and the fact that at higher levels similar but even more aggressive spells beome available to the Druid. Nevertheless woth memorizing even at those higher levels.

    MID TIER:

    * Call Lightning 3.5/5
    AoE 2d8 electrical damage + 1d8 per level of the caster (sav for half) is very substantial. This spell would have made it into the top tier if it were castable indoors as well as outdoors.

    * Strength of One 3.5/5
    In BG1 this spell can raise weaker party members' strength in battle, so that they'll be more likely to actually hit something. Think of thieves with mediocre strength who want to backstab, or even of fighters with lacklustre strength such as Jaheira and Khalid. With the strength enhacing items available in BG2, the spell loses its usefulness for this purpose. There is another use that can be made of the spell however: buffing summons. Even in BG2 many summons will benefit from it: fire elementals (with the exception of the very rare high hd version), Skeletal Warriors (including the level 15 version though the difference there will be marginal), any of the Animal Summon I and Animal Summon II creatures, any of the non-bear Animal Summon III creatures, most of the Monster Summons (except ogres), Wyverns, Invisible Stalkers, Giant/Phase/Sword Spiders, Nishruu, Hakeashar, and Mordenkainen's Sword (magical sword) all benefit from it.
    A srious downside is its relatively short duration of one turn.

    * Cure Medium Wounds 3/5
    There's not much wrong with this spell, but its effect of healing 14 hitpoints of damage isn't great either. Useful if you've got some spare spell slots.

    * Miscast Magic 3/5
    Imposing an 80% chance of miscasts upon an enemy spellcaster can be very debilitating. With a save vs spell penalty of -2, and possibly worse (with Doom / Greater Malison), this is a pretty good spell. But Summon Insects with a -4 save vs breath penalty is more likely to be effective in neutralizing enemy spellcasters, hence this spell's mid tier status. Note that its casting time is much shorter than that of Summon Insects though.

    * Protection from Fire 3/5
    Complete immunity from normal fire plus 80% protection from magical fire is a strong protection, making >100% protection very feasible (with potions or other items). You won't need such protection all the time, but it certainly won't hurt to have one memorized once you have a larger number of spell slots or if you know you're going to have to deal with fire.

    * Remove Paralysis 3/5
    You won't need this spell often, but when you do it'll be a life saver. It removes Stun (against which Free Action doesn't protect). Even though its casting time of 6 is a downside, it's recommendable to always have one memorized (an unlucky Chromatic Orb, a Power Word: Stun, an encounter with a demon that stuns its targets; it can happen anytime).

    * Cure Disease 2.5/5
    Any damage inflicted by diseases is very gradual/slow), so it might as well be countered with healing. However the spell also dispels Blindness, Deafness and Feeblemind. For these situations it can be handy to have on Cure DIsease memorized. It can be cast in battle thanks to its short (instant) casting time of 1.

    * Invisibility Purge 2.5/5
    Does what it says, with no saving throw. (It even dispels Sanctuary.) Once the Cleric has a good number of level 3 spell slots it won't harm to have one memorized for when your party has run out of better spells and you've no thief who can dispel illusions.

    * Zone of Sweet Air 2.5/5
    As such not a bad spell at all. However the game will rarely confront you with Stinking Clouds, Cloudkills etc cast your way. It can also be used to clean your own mess, so for those who tend to cast Stinking Cloud etc a lot, it may be worthwhile to memorize it.

    BOTTOM TIER:

    * Glyph of Warding 2/5
    Potentially very damaging. I've seen this spell called the Cleric's "Skull Trap". It has one major disadvantage compared to the mage spell though: a save negates all damage. Still, multiple Glyphs can really hurt a doomed / greater malisoned enemy. Bottom tier spell since there are many good level 3 spells, most of which more reliable.

    * Rigid Thinking 2/5
    A single target spell with an effect similar to that of Confusion. There is no save penalty, which means one can't reliably cast it.

    * Unholy Blight 1.5/5
    Unless you're intent on taking on The Order of the Radiant Heart with an evil party, you won't have use for this spell. Character with very low reputation might benefit from this spell when pesecuted by groups of law enforcers

    * Hold Animal 1/5
    Once you get this, animals won't be a threat to your party anymore.

    * Remove Curse 1/5
    Only worth memorizing if one of your party already has a curse, which ought to be never...

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Note: Note: spells that have the same rating are categorizd alphabetically rather than hierarchically.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Next up are the level 4 priest spells: Animal Summoning I, Call Woodlands Beings, Cause Serious Wounds, Cloak of Fear, Cure Serious Wounds, Death Ward, Defensive Harmony, Farsight, Free Action, Holy Power, Lesser Restoration, Mental Domination, Negative Plane Protection, Neutralize Poison, Poison, Protection from Evil, 10' Radius, Protection from Lightning.

    Your opinions are most welcome!

    EDIT: rated Zone of Sweet Air with an extra 0.5.
    Post edited by Blackraven on
  • elementelement Member Posts: 833
    edited March 2014
    2 for zone of sweet air I love that spell id have it mid tier for sure

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    @element, ok I'll give it a 2.5 (lower mid-tier), as you aren't the only one who appreciates this spell. I still think however that its use depends a lot on one's playstyle, and is therefore not as "universal" as other spells of the same level.
  • elementelement Member Posts: 833
    edited March 2014
    I agree with that its a very specialist/limited spell but its really great at what it does
  • ElrandirElrandir Member Posts: 1,664
    edited March 2014
    I'm basing my lvl 4 spell list off of knowledge of BG1, experience, and assumptions, so I could very easily be countered in some of these, due to them sounding better than they really are. But here we go. Also I'm somewhat generous, so if I barely have any bottom tier spells, that's why.

    Top Tier:

    Cause Serious Wounds: 4/5
    17 points of damage is a serious bit of damage in BG1, and is probably pretty damaging in early BG2 as well.

    Cure Serious Wounds: 3.5/5
    Finally a healing spell that's worth it. 17 HP is a great upgrade over CLW, but there are so many other great spells this level, I can't really give it any more than a 3.5.

    Protection From Evil, 10' Radius: 4/5
    Does as it says. An excellent prebuff that will make your party that much sturdier against the majority of foes in the game. Also renders demons completely ineffective against a protected individual. And it lasts longer than the first level spell as well. A practically required choice for priests.


    Mid Tier:

    Call Woodland Beings: 3/5
    I hear this one being called great a lot, but in my experience, the nymph is less useful than she sounds. I could just be using her incorrectly, but I've found her to be only a decent summon.

    Cloak of Fear: 2.5/5
    I would've rated this one higher, because it sounds nice, (I have yet to be in a battle where I need it) but part of what made me rate it lower is because the duration. It says instant, which causes me to believe it doesn't last. At all. That said, it sounds like a very handy way of taking the heat off of a surrounded character.

    Death Ward: 3.5/5
    Protects against all death spells. Um... Yeah. That's about it. Useless in unmodded BG1, since to my knowledge no one uses death spells, but it can be quite handy in BG2, I would assume.

    Defensive Harmony: 3/5
    +2 AC for the whole party as a decent duration pre buff? Heck, you could even cast it mid-battle, due to it's 1 casting time.

    Free Action: 2.5/5
    There are plenty of items that give this as an effect, not to mention, it disables haste. Handy for some fights that are only really hard due to holding effects, but pretty useless past that.

    Lesser Restoration: 2.5/5
    Good for when you need it, useless otherwise. Also, unless I'm wrong, another spell from this same level gives you protection for what this cures. Prevention>Curing.

    Mental Domination: 3/5
    Handy, but your mages can do it better, I would say. Perhaps I'm wrong. I wouldn't be surprised. I have little experience with domination\charm\ect.

    Negative Plane Protection: 3.5/5
    You know how I said Prevention>Curing on Lesser Restoration? This is what I mean. I've never used the spell, but the description says it prevents level drain, which is what Lesser Restoration cures. Useful, and definitely better than the curative form.

    Neutralize Poison: 3.5/5
    This is like Slow Poison, Cure Disease, and Cure Light Wounds had a baby. And the baby was better than all three of its parents. It not only cures poison, but also heals 10 HP of damage, meaning it's a great post\mid battle method for dealing with spiders\ettercaps\wyverns\ect. As an added bonus, it also cures disease, (including blindness and deafness) making that spell fairly useless as well, unless you desire to cure feeblemind. This definitely crushes those spells, but I'm not putting into the top tier due to the multitude of other great spells this level.

    Poison: 3.5/5
    I have no experience with this spell, but the description shows it to be a mighty slayer of mages. Even at level cap for BG, it does 2d8+2 damage per round, and lasts a full turn. At the spell's cap (17) it's doing a whopping 8d8+6 damage per round. With a range of 15 ft. it's not the longest range spell, but your clerics are generally getting into the fray themselves, so by casting this on a mage at the start of a battle, I could easily see it killing them as the battle progresses. Of course, its one shortcoming is it has no negative saving throw, and a successful save renders it useless.

    Protection From Lightning: 3.5/5
    This provides complete invulnerability to electrical attacks. Lightning bolts got you down? Not anymore.

    Bottom Tier:

    Animal Summoning 1: 1.5/5
    While summons are handy, I can't imagine these being something that will save the party frequently.

    Holy Power: 2/5
    While this might be handy for a truly weak priest, DuHM is far superior.

    Farsight: 1/5
    The best thing I could think of for this spell is if you wanted to use it in a speed run to identify the edge of a map so you could auto target it. That's the most I can imagine it being used for. Metagame knowledge renders what little other uses this spell has null and void.

    Edit: Purely grammatical.
    Post edited by Elrandir on
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    edited March 2014
    My ranking:

    TOP TIER:

    * Protection from Evil 10' Radius 5/5
    Recipients receive a +2 bonus to saving throws, whereas enemies receive a -2 panalty to attack rolls (according to @Corvinus regardless of their alignment, I'm not sure, but the vast majority of enemies are evil anyway). This is a significant protection for one's entire party. The spell also protects its recipients from being attacked by gated fiends.

    * Holy Power 4.5/5
    Sets the cleric's STR to 18/00, their thac0 to that of a fighter of the same level, and grants an extra hitpoint for each experience level. The 18/00 STR can actually be a lowering of the cleric's base STR, but that can be repaired with a casting of Draw Upon Holy Might or Righteous Magic after casting Holy Power. These spell combos transform the Cleric into a steamroller more devastating than most fighters (even though they don't gain an increase in APR).

    * Call Woodland Beings 4/5
    While the Nymph herself is vulnerable, her spell repertoire is useful during a big portion of the game. It includes: Hold Person, Call Lightning, Miscast Magic, Mental Domination, Mass Cure, Hold Monster and Confusion. Later in SOA you'll get much more powerful summons, but until that time this spell is worthy of memorization.

    * Death Ward 4/5
    Protects the target crature form all forms of death magic. You wont face death magic all the time, but when you do, the complete protection this spell offers, combined with its progressive duration, is top notch. Examples are Beholders' death rays, and various mages in BG2/TOB who cast spells like Finger of Death or later Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting.

    MID TIER:

    * Free Action 3.5/5
    Immunity to movement hampering spells and attacks is great. The spell can be used both preventively and curatively. Its duration improves with the caster's levels. It would have been a top tier spell if there weren't various items in the game that offer permanent Free Action (rings, a 2h sword in BG1, upgraded Flail of Ages in TOB). Nevertheless it can be useful to always have one memorized (later maybe even two).

    * Defensive Harmony 3/5
    A +2 bonus to AC during 6 rounds for your party is useful once you get this spell in mid BG1. However as the game progresses a +2 won't normally make much of a difference on your warriors whereas mages will have their own protections (such as Stoneskin).

    * Lesser Restoration 3/5
    Restores any drained levels of the recipient. You'll only need to memorize this in BG2/TOB; since in BG1 you won't encounter any level draining creatures. Level drain is difficult to prevent, but I'd memorize it only when your party is going to face vampires or other level draining creatures.

    * Cure Serious Wounds 2.5/5
    Cures 17 hitpoints, which in itself isn't bad, but note that this is only 3 hitpoints more than Cure Medium Wounds. Besides, healing potions abound throughout the game. I'd only recommend memorizing this at later levels, when your cleric has enough level 4 spell slots to also memorize the top tier spells.

    * Mental Domination 2.5/5
    With a -2 save vs spell penalty (preferably magnified by Doom or Greater Malison), this is the most potent Charm spell in the game. Still not foolproof, although a successful casting on an enemy spellcaster can be great fun. Druids are better off using their Woodland Beings to cast this spell.

    * Neutralize Poison 2.5/5
    This spell combines the effects of the 1st level spell Slow Poison and the 3rd level spell Cure Disease, and cures 10 hitpoints. No need to memorize this if you've got the two lower level spells memorized already.

    BOTTOM TIER:

    * Cause Serious Wounds 2/5
    This spell does 17 damage, which during BG1 or early BG2 may be more than an average hit by the priest, depending on his STR, and there is no saving throw which is always nice. However the priest has 2 rounds to make the attack before the spell wears off, and if the attack misses the spell will expire as well. Perhaps a properly buffed priest may have use for it.

    * Farsight 2/5
    Makes all unexplored areas of a map visible for the caster. I've never used it, but I've read people using this spell to have summons debilitate, charm, attack any still neutral (blue circled), future opponents.

    * Negative Plane Protection 2/5
    The spell effect, protection from level drain, is great, but its duration of 5 rounds is too short to properly serve your characters in battle. You'll encounter most vampires in small groups, and killing them all within 5 rounds is impossible for the average party during the largest portion of SOA. Besides the game offers two items that grant permament Neg. Plane Protection.

    * Poison 2/5
    Very damaging and disrupting during one turn, if the spell takes effect on the target. The problem is that a successful save vs poison negates the effect. Rogues and wizards don't have great saves vs poison (unless they're sturdy shorties with high CON), so on them this spell, in combination with Doom / Greater Malison, could work but I wouldn't call it a safe bet.

    * Animal Summoning I 1.5/5
    Two or three animals with 4hd or less hit dice won't last long in battle. They also don't compare favourably to the hardier, magic resistant and more damaging skeletons that the level 3 spell Animate Dead offers. Still it's cannon fodder, especially for the druid who has no access to Animate Dead.

    * Cloak of Fear 1.5/5
    This would have been a decent AoE priest spell, panicking enemies near the priest, if it imposed a decent or prgressive save vs spell penalty. Unfortunately it doesn't.

    * Protection from Lightning 1/5
    Electricity damage is very uncommon throughout the entire trilogy. For those rare occasions I'd quaff a Potion of Absorption. The game offers plenty of those. Besides there's a pair of Boots of Grounding that offer protection as well.

    EDIT: added Cause Serious Wounds, which I'd forgotten to include before.
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