Most Unrivaled Ranger v.2
Elrandir
Member Posts: 1,664
Moving right along from the fighter, this time we're seeing what the best ranger kit is! As always, this is for personal preference, and not to say what is the strongest kit. That said, feel free to debate to your heart's content in the comments! I'd also like to give a big thank you/shout out to @Tresset for helping me recover my poll's options, as well as a thank you to Dee for allowing me to re-post these. Without further ado, choose!
- Most Unrivaled Ranger v.2134 votes
- Ranger: Fantasy Boy Scout.11.19%
- Archer: Legolas, anyone?31.34%
- Stalker: Because that's not creepy.34.33%
- Beast Master: I like to imagine either Tarzan or a crazy cat lady.5.22%
- Just show me the results.17.91%
4
Comments
In all seriousness, this is my favorite kit because I love the image of a man or woman of the wild using the talents of their profession to survive in a big city, and finding they mesh quite well indeed.
Nevertheless. if I had to roll a Ranger right now, it would be a Beast Master.
It's only real shining point is that is the multiclass C/R, which is a slightly better F/C.
Stalker tries to be a Thief but really isn't. With no Trap Removal, Pick Pocketing, ugh. Stalker/Clerics have even LESS weapon selection. Edit: They don't, forgot that BMs are the ones with weapon restrictions.
Beast Master creates tanks that get gibbed really fast later on. If you're playing on Insane they might just get blown up with mere AoE attacks. Edit: Have weapon restrictions that compounds the weapon restrictions their only Dual Class has.
Archer is the only one I find worth using.
Maybe a charname would be more reliable in BG2:EE with the SCS mod, I don't know but from what I see about Minsk and Valygar in my several games this full armor means much less deaths.
Actually my favorite is the Justifier but that one is form a mod.
It's deadly on a F/T who can utilize the full x5 multiplier.
It's deadly on a F/T who can utilize the full x5 multiplier.
The Stalker has a x4 multiplier.
Still fairly stunted compared to a F/T. Who gets to x5 before the Stalker gets to x4.
Also, STALKERS CAN STALK!! Which is awesome!
Yes please.
@bengoshi Valygar's vulnerability is easily managed with a little micro. If he's getting attention just dance him around a little until your tanks grab them (or invis pot). I find Valygar indispensable when I have him.
Archers get cumulative bonuses that keep on working even when stealth is gone. They can also use their bonus damage with Slings on top of their STR bonus. They can make use of the specialization gauntlets to really cheese out that bonus damage they get. Stalkers can't combine APR with backstab.
With GWW or Improved Haste Archer bonuses just get ridiculous, with GWW or Improved Haste a Stalker still just backstabs once.
Also, in the originals, beastmaster was the ONLY ranger kit that would ever be allowed to dual... Unique in every perspective...
If you want to talk about haste, you obviously haven't used a hasted Valygar with boots of speed before. 4x movement speed might as well be Hide in Plain Sight. You will be backstabbing every 6 seconds.
Get off that x4 multiplier. A katana hitting at 4x damage is better than a katana hitting at 1x
You can also use Invisibility Potions, Sandthief's Ring and the Ring of Air Elemental Control (which in vanilla BG2 you could get infinite copies).
Also, the Archer can't get GM on slings
Throw in the extra attack from Haste (2.5) and from dual wielding an APR weapon (1). You're just throwing away damage just to push that backstab modifier. Once Improved Haste enters the picture, you're dealing less damage trying to backstab every round instead of just treating backstab as a flat +3 APR bonus on the first round.
Archers can wear a Girdle of Fire Giant Strength, for 1 less STR. Which is just a 1 damage difference. They still have their ranged bonus damage when using slings.
Also how exactly is PnFM great for BG1 when you can't even use it in the game? Haste is covered by any Mage in the party and what spells will MST actually turn. The Stalker is hidden once combat starts so he won't be one of the initial targets, there's the level 4 or below consideration.
Archer bonuses can go as high as 100+ damage with Improved Haste on them. And that's just their bonus.
Also really? Dagger of the Star? You're going to rely on a 15% chance? Using Rings and Potions still takes an entire round.
Also, you can dual-wield a Speed Weapon for a higher APR or use your Haste spell.
It does not provide an Archer which really is the only class that makes bows, crossbows, and slings worthwhile in BG2 with their bonus. And because of that bonus, there's very little need for the Archer to melee. While a meleeing main character can easily outstrip the NPCs, being a Stalker is fairly poor way to go to achieve that goal.
As @CrevsDaak said, in a thread about one's favorite Ranger, the classes to be compared aren't Fighter/Thief and Stalker but the different Ranger kits (including the true class). If you critically scrutinize the Stalker, why not do the same with Archers? How great are Archers in the second half of SoA and in ToB? Almost all classes gain relative power as the game progresses but the Archer will see more and more foes with high piercing resistance, or even immunity to your arrows (either because of resistance or because of the arrows insufficient enchantment). This means that a lot of the time your Archer will be meleeing rather than doing what's he's best at. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just saying that powergaming motives do not necessarily constitute the most convincing argument to favor the Archer as the nicest Ranger kit in my view. Now if you're talking personal preference, flavor, that would be another question of course.
Also the Stalker's power gaming potential was brought up. So talking about its mechanical performance is fair game.
Also the Sling of Everard's STR Bonus and Archer Bonuses pile up. They out damage most weapon wielders.
15% chance is a 100% or more when you have 10 APR, so... You can turn invisible more than once because of the dagger in a single round.
NPCs are NPCs, the thing of a Kit comparison isn't party composition, it's the potential the Kit can get alone with items.
ANY fighter class can deal 100+ damage, even a vanilla fighter without Improved Haste (my fighter PC deals a max of 31 and base of 27 IIRC, and has 9/2 APR).
In vanilla BG1, an Archer can be great, right, but as Blackraven said most of BG2 is from not-so-easy to difficult. Also, any Warrior class can solo vanilla BG1 VERY easily.
Also, melee is better than ranged in BG2, because ranged weapons aren't as good as melee weapons. And the Silver Sword has 25% chances of slaying unless target saves at -2 vs death, and not even mentioning the Ravager+6 that has 10% chance of slaying with NO SAVE.
Considering the rest of the party is pretty fair if we talk about power gaming. You don't powergame by ignoring the rest of the party unless you solo. Also that 100+ damage is just the Archer's bonuses. That's without weapon damage or STR damage with Sling.
And sure the Archer sucks solo, but if that's what you meant by ppwergaming, then you really should have indicated a solo play through.
Also, Archers can still melee. All they lose is 1 THAC0 2 damage per attack and .5 attacks compared to other Rangers. They still get the Fighter's +1 APR, Fighter THAC0 and Fighter exceptional strength for as long as it can be useful, and still retain Dual wield proficiencies.