Drow weapons make no sense

Mhamza

I was playing bg2 the other day, in chapter 6, with the drow are attacking and something struck me as very odd, now correct me if i'm wrong but don't drow weapons disintegrate in sunlight, then how are the drow (demons aside) attacking Suldenesslar and winning?

kiwidoc

Firstly, only weapons made of adamantite are destroyed by sunlight, and Drow do have weapons made of other materials. According to various Forgotten Realms novels I've read they arm their thralls and slaves with the cheaper weapons.

Secondly, under strict D&D rules adamantine only gradually disintegrates when exposed to sunlight.

Metalloman

kiwidoc said:

Firstly, only weapons made of adamantite are destroyed by sunlight, and Drow do have weapons made of other materials. According to various Forgotten Realms novels I've read they arm their thralls and slaves with the cheaper weapons.

Secondly, under strict D&D rules adamantine only gradually disintegrates when exposed to sunlight.

Yeah, and they usually do quick raids on surface... and they prefer night.

SpaceInvader

Mhamza said:

I was playing bg2 the other day, in chapter 6, with the drow are attacking and something struck me as very odd, now correct me if i'm wrong but don't drow weapons disintegrate in sunlight, then how are the drow (demons aside) attacking Suldenesslar and winning?

How many drow did you met in Suldanessellar? I met one and he was a mage.
Irenicus used other creatures to attack the city.

The drow were merely used as a distraction to keep the elves busy.

Mhamza

SpaceInvader said:

Mhamza said:

I was playing bg2 the other day, in chapter 6, with the drow are attacking and something struck me as very odd, now correct me if i'm wrong but don't drow weapons disintegrate in sunlight, then how are the drow (demons aside) attacking Suldenesslar and winning?

How many drow did you met in Suldanessellar? I met one and he was a mage.
Irenicus used other creatures to attack the city.

The drow were merely used as a distraction to keep the elves busy.

Metalloman said:

kiwidoc said:

Firstly, only weapons made of adamantite are destroyed by sunlight, and Drow do have weapons made of other materials. According to various Forgotten Realms novels I've read they arm their thralls and slaves with the cheaper weapons.

Secondly, under strict D&D rules adamantine only gradually disintegrates when exposed to sunlight.

Yeah, and they usually do quick raids on surface... and they prefer night.

kiwidoc said:

Firstly, only weapons made of adamantite are destroyed by sunlight, and Drow do have weapons made of other materials. According to various Forgotten Realms novels I've read they arm their thralls and slaves with the cheaper weapons.

Secondly, under strict D&D rules adamantine only gradually disintegrates when exposed to sunlight.

Oh, now I get it was just a bit confused, thanks everybody

dustbubsy

I think one of the Drow in Ust Natha says they don't want surfacers to get their hands on their superior weapons anyway, so they look on the disintegrating as almost a blessing.

the_spyder

I could be wrong, but I had thought that the magic that enchanted Drow weapons disintegrated over time (a short time, but still). Meaning that the 'Instant Disintegration' is an affectation of the game. It would actually take days of exposure before they became useless. The idea is that the magics involved don't like being that far away from the source in the underdark. or so I'd always read (in the Salvatore books and other source materials). Even Drizzts' cloak took time to disintegrate.

Mathsorcerer

The whole "drow items disintegrate or deteriorate when brought to the surface" is ridiculous. The only logical reason for this ever to have been implemented was so that adventuring parties don't come back out of the Underdark with so-called "overpowered" items--everyone has +3 weapons, drow chain mail which gives a mage/thief no penalites, piwafwi cloaks allowing even clumsy fighters in plate mail to successfully hide in shadows, etc. I have always had the opinion that if your party can not only survive the Underdark and walk out of it alive then you should be rewarded by being allowed to keep all those great items.

I always disable the script that disintegrates drow items. I earned them; I keep them.

SpaceInvader

You can also avoid their disintegration with a little cheesy trick, by the way.
1. Get naked
2. Keep in your inventory just the drow equip you want to save
3. Select a familiar able to pick pocket (cat or ferret) and order it to pick pocket you
4. The game makes a check of the items on the PCs, but not the familiars
5. Leave the "Underdark Exit" map and talk to your familiar to retrieve the stolen items

Remember that this check will trigger only in the map Underdark Exit in BG2, while in ToB it's more problematic :P

the_spyder

@SpaceInvader - If that's your definition of "A little bit cheesy", what's your definition of "A LOT of cheese"?

SpaceInvader

@the_spyder you don't want to know that, want you? xD

the_spyder

@SpaceInvader - so long as you are enjoying the game, it's all good. Enjoy.

kjdbaldurs

IIRC when reading the Drizzt book series the drow would get blessings and put salves on the armour before a surface raid.

SpaceInvader

@the_spyder‌
Oh I do... And my approach to video games never changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHxIssSROjk

Mathsorcerer

Any tactic or idea which begins with "1. Get naked" is either incredibly brilliant and/or exciting (and we should all be doing it) or incredibly ridiculous and should be avoided at all costs.

kiwidoc

Mathsorcerer said:

Any tactic or idea which begins with "1. Get naked" is either incredibly brilliant and/or exciting (and we should all be doing it) or incredibly ridiculous and should be avoided at all costs.

Or even both?

the_spyder

Mathsorcerer said:

Any tactic or idea which begins with "1. Get naked" is either incredibly brilliant and/or exciting (and we should all be doing it) or incredibly ridiculous and should be avoided at all costs.

And the situation where they are BOTH, can be really REALLY fun.

kiwidoc

@the_spyder great minds think alike

CrevsDaak

kiwidoc said:

the_spyder great minds think alike

Third mind alike here, can't confirm the greatness through

lunar

I always thought drow items were okay to use in Underdark, where everything tries to kill you. It is the most dangerous place known to man, afterall. Plus you get to pose as a drow and infiltrate the drow city, it is only natural that you get to don drow armor/weapons. But when you leave underdark it is cool to let drow items go, IMHO.

Aristillius

I have also read in descriptions of Ust Natha that the adamentatite weapons produced in the city are exceptionally powerful, but as a balance they disintegrate much more rapidly in sunlight than normal drow weapons.

Gallowglass

I don't usually find myself using much of the drow equipment in the Underdark. If I have a crossbow-using character, then the Drow Crossbow of Speed is often worthwhile, but the rest of their weaponry is generally inferior to what my party already has. The various drow armours have good AC, but no saving throw bonuses or resistances or other special effects, so maybe someone in my party might find it better than what they've already got, but typically most of the party are better off continuing to wear what they were already wearing.

the_spyder

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with @Gallowglass. Generally by the time I get to the Underdark I've got pretty good gear such that I don't really need or miss the Drow stuff. Oh, a few items are nice to haves, but nothing that I cry about the loss of. But then I go and do EVERY SINGLE side quest I can before heading down there.

I do confess to being a little miffed by the sell price of the armor and weapons "In the Underdark" where it will not disintegrate. Stuff that, on the surface would sell for tens of thousands sells for a few hundred at most below. But since by that time you have so much money that you don't NEED any more, I suppose it is not really a big deal.

Gallowglass

the_spyder said:

I do confess to being a little miffed by the sell price of the armor and weapons "In the Underdark" where it will not disintegrate. Stuff that, on the surface would sell for tens of thousands sells for a few hundred at most below.

Well, it's probably over-analysing to apply real-world economics to the Forgotten Realms, but consider this: drow equipment is quite common in the Underdark (since all the drow already have it), and there's no export market to places outside the Underdark (because it disintegrates), so there's adequate supply and only local demand, so the market-clearing price is not likely to be high.

the_spyder said:

But since by that time you have so much money that you don't NEED any more, I suppose it is not really a big deal.

I never find my party drowning in gold at that stage. Most of the gold they had in Athkatla has usually been spent on preparations (equipment, spell scrolls, etc.) before going to Brynnlaw, and the gold they gain in Brynnlaw/Spellhold/City-of-Caverns/Underdark mostly gets spent in the Ust Natha market (where there's some excellent equipment, a lot of new spell scrolls, etc.), so I don't usually leave the Underdark feeling very wealthy. I don't usually reach the stage of having more gold than I need until I'm in Amkethran.

Tresset

What I don't understand is how the drow achieved a full plate +5!!!!!!!! That just seems ridiculous.

JuliusBorisov

Tresset said:

What I don't understand is how the drow achieved a full plate +5!!!!!!!! That just seems ridiculous.

CamDawg

SpaceInvader said:

You can also avoid their disintegration with a little cheesy trick, by the way.
1. Get naked
2. Keep in your inventory just the drow equip you want to save
3. Select a familiar able to pick pocket (cat or ferret) and order it to pick pocket you
4. The game makes a check of the items on the PCs, but not the familiars
5. Leave the "Underdark Exit" map and talk to your familiar to retrieve the stolen items

Remember that this check will trigger only in the map Underdark Exit in BG2, while in ToB it's more problematic :P

Hey, guess what exploit was closed a while ago?

DreadKhan

Truly, other than the caster chainmail +3, it wasnt that great... but +5 fullplate is plain idiotic.

Few points: i thought the enchantment on such gear fades, not instant disintegration. Also, in 2nd ed dont you have to make almost implausibly high quality gear to allow +5?? I remember magic gear was generally crummy in older dnd, and the equivilant of mw was quality level, which allowed enchantment.

the_spyder

Gallowglass said:

Well, it's probably over-analysing to apply real-world economics to the Forgotten Realms, but consider this: drow equipment is quite common in the Underdark (since all the drow already have it), and there's no export market to places outside the Underdark (because it disintegrates), so there's adequate supply and only local demand, so the market-clearing price is not likely to be high.

Try playing ToB. Every single grunt and peon as a +3 weapon at minimum. Talk about supply overload. As for exporting, there are several Drow cities, not to mention the Illithids and various other races. I am sure there is some external demand. But to your point, it's a game. Applying real world economics is an exercise in futility.

Gallowglass said:

I never find my party drowning in gold at that stage. Most of the gold they had in Athkatla has usually been spent on preparations (equipment, spell scrolls, etc.) before going to Brynnlaw, and the gold they gain in Brynnlaw/Spellhold/City-of-Caverns/Underdark mostly gets spent in the Ust Natha market (where there's some excellent equipment, a lot of new spell scrolls, etc.), so I don't usually leave the Underdark feeling very wealthy. I don't usually reach the stage of having more gold than I need until I'm in Amkethran.

I have a much different experience. I always complete every single side quest I am capable of while in Chapter 2. I usually end up so flushed with cash that I can't carry it all. I make sure that I have bought up everything I will need that is available and I (RP) stash the rest in whatever Fortress (usually the planar sphere) I end up with. As for the 'price' to get to Brynnlaw, that can usually be garnered from doing any one of the side quests available, let alone all of them. However, I appreciate that not everyone completes the game the way I do. I totally respect others' way of playing the game.

SpaceInvader

CamDawg said:

SpaceInvader said:

You can also avoid their disintegration with a little cheesy trick, by the way.
1. Get naked
2. Keep in your inventory just the drow equip you want to save
3. Select a familiar able to pick pocket (cat or ferret) and order it to pick pocket you
4. The game makes a check of the items on the PCs, but not the familiars
5. Leave the "Underdark Exit" map and talk to your familiar to retrieve the stolen items

Remember that this check will trigger only in the map Underdark Exit in BG2, while in ToB it's more problematic :P

Hey, guess what exploit was closed a while ago?

Hey, guess who knows another exploit to keep drow stuff without importing it?

CamDawg

Human chain or muling? Because I've got more bad news...

And if not, please share.