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Drow weapons make no sense

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  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689


    Well, it's probably over-analysing to apply real-world economics to the Forgotten Realms, but consider this: drow equipment is quite common in the Underdark (since all the drow already have it), and there's no export market to places outside the Underdark (because it disintegrates), so there's adequate supply and only local demand, so the market-clearing price is not likely to be high.

    Try playing ToB. Every single grunt and peon as a +3 weapon at minimum. Talk about supply overload. As for exporting, there are several Drow cities, not to mention the Illithids and various other races. I am sure there is some external demand. But to your point, it's a game. Applying real world economics is an exercise in futility. :)


    I never find my party drowning in gold at that stage. Most of the gold they had in Athkatla has usually been spent on preparations (equipment, spell scrolls, etc.) before going to Brynnlaw, and the gold they gain in Brynnlaw/Spellhold/City-of-Caverns/Underdark mostly gets spent in the Ust Natha market (where there's some excellent equipment, a lot of new spell scrolls, etc.), so I don't usually leave the Underdark feeling very wealthy. I don't usually reach the stage of having more gold than I need until I'm in Amkethran.

    I have a much different experience. I always complete every single side quest I am capable of while in Chapter 2. I usually end up so flushed with cash that I can't carry it all. I make sure that I have bought up everything I will need that is available and I (RP) stash the rest in whatever Fortress (usually the planar sphere) I end up with. As for the 'price' to get to Brynnlaw, that can usually be garnered from doing any one of the side quests available, let alone all of them. However, I appreciate that not everyone completes the game the way I do. I totally respect others' way of playing the game.
    I agree, even using the 100 000 (Imoen rescue) and 20 000 (spell casting) component from SCS and buying all equipment for a full party of 6 i'll still have a ton of gold.
  • SpaceInvaderSpaceInvader Member Posts: 2,125
    edited June 2014
    CamDawg said:

    Human chain or muling? Because I've got more bad news...

    And if not, please share. :)

    Precisely :) To kick a PC while still in the Underdark is a lot faster than the chain.
    Are you going to put a sort of perma check just after the Exit of the Underdark?
    That's mean xD
    Post edited by SpaceInvader on
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited June 2014

    CamDawg said:

    You can also avoid their disintegration with a little cheesy trick, by the way.
    1. Get naked
    2. Keep in your inventory just the drow equip you want to save
    3. Select a familiar able to pick pocket (cat or ferret) and order it to pick pocket you
    4. The game makes a check of the items on the PCs, but not the familiars
    5. Leave the "Underdark Exit" map and talk to your familiar to retrieve the stolen items

    Remember that this check will trigger only in the map Underdark Exit in BG2, while in ToB it's more problematic :P

    Hey, guess what exploit was closed a while ago?
    Hey, guess who knows another exploit to keep drow stuff without importing it? ;)
    Does it involve exporting your character file (with drow items in its inventory), moving your saved game to a multiplayer game, and then importing that character file into your game? (then taking the items and kicking this other charname out of the group)
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    elminster said:

    CamDawg said:

    You can also avoid their disintegration with a little cheesy trick, by the way.
    1. Get naked
    2. Keep in your inventory just the drow equip you want to save
    3. Select a familiar able to pick pocket (cat or ferret) and order it to pick pocket you
    4. The game makes a check of the items on the PCs, but not the familiars
    5. Leave the "Underdark Exit" map and talk to your familiar to retrieve the stolen items

    Remember that this check will trigger only in the map Underdark Exit in BG2, while in ToB it's more problematic :P

    Hey, guess what exploit was closed a while ago?
    Hey, guess who knows another exploit to keep drow stuff without importing it? ;)
    Does it involve exporting your character file (with drow items in its inventory), moving your saved game to a multiplayer game, and then importing that character file into your game? (then taking the items and kicking this other charname out of the group)
    Just wait until they patch the baldur(25).bcs and you won't be able to use ANY exploits for this :)
  • CatoblepasCatoblepas Member Posts: 96
    edited June 2014
    Actually, in 3.5 there you can get 'darkoil' to treat drowcraft items, which keeps them from disintegrating. So there actually is a of 'sunscreen' of sorts you can get for your drow stuff to keep it from turning to dust.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Anduin said:

    @Elminister‌ stop being a baby sith lord drama queen!

    Are drow weapons so coveted?

    Probably not but they do actually have very good bolts.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited June 2014
    I never use any of the drow equipment, I always have better gear so i don't even loot them.
  • lunasmeowlunasmeow Member Posts: 7
    edited June 2014
    I just think it's dumb that they have time to focus on fixing exploits like this one, (which are only useable by those who intend to cheat anyway, and will thus find another way to do so) but they can't fix other known issues like Jaheira's love quest, or the Ranger Guild bug, or Hexxat being the ONLY character you can't wait until chapter 6 to recruit, the ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE pathfinding of your characters, among other things. Especially in a game that is now RE-released. It's fine to have bugs in an initial release, but bugs that were known in the original game remaining unfixed in the new version? (Not Hexxat, obviously.) Really? This is my first Beamdog game, and if that's the kind of quality I can expect...

    But on the subject of Drow weapons, okay, the ones you get from the Drow in the main portions of the Underdark I can expect to disintegrate. But the Drow who are fighting the Elves in the temple ready to charge to the surface and attack Sundasellar? They should have stuff treated for the sun. I should be able to keep that stuff. The Drow aren't going to lay siege to a city completely naked having no weapons or armor after all. Even the Drow mages that are IN Sundasellar (as mentioned before) aren't any different. I didn't run into any Drow "robes" of any kind. So the mages must be wearing the Drow Chain, (why would they wear robes, when they have armor that allows magic?) which ALSO disintegrates. If they aren't going to differentiate between the equipment, then they should leave the exploits alone.
  • TressetTresset Member, Moderator Posts: 8,268
    edited June 2014
    lunasmeow said:

    I just think it's dumb that they have time to focus on fixing exploits like this one, (which are only useable by those who intend to cheat anyway, and will thus find another way to do so) but they can't fix other known issues like Jaheira's love quest, or the Ranger Guild bug, or Hexxat being the ONLY character you can't wait until chapter 6 to recruit, the ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE pathfinding of your characters, among other things. Especially in a game that is now RE-released. It's fine to have bugs in an initial release, but bugs that were known in the original game remaining unfixed in the new version? (Not Hexxat, obviously.) Really? This is my first Beamdog game, and if that's the kind of quality I can expect...

    @lunasmeow‌ It isn't quite like that. Fixing most of the bugs and exploits takes very little time. The problem is that there are tons of them to fix and not all the manpower is always focused on bug fixing. What gets fixed is often decided primarily by what gets reported and what can be confirmed as an issue. This means that the community and the beta testers have a heavy influence on what is fixed and what isn't.

    The horrible pathfinding is not Beamdog's fault; it is Bioware's. It is extremely difficult to change such an integral part of the game without making it worse or introducing a ton of new bugs.

    All that said, the upcoming patch is going to be massive and fix a huge amount of issues, both with the core game and with the new content.
    Post edited by Tresset on
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    The pathfinding options can be changed in the baldur.ini. By default, BGEE uses the 'enhanced' value by Bioware standards, what means that it makes no change. So raise it in a considerable amount and it should improve a lot.
  • lunasmeowlunasmeow Member Posts: 7
    Bugs aside, there should be a fix for Drow equipment, even if just for those who wish to collect some as proof of surviving the Underdark (like many adventurers would like). So there should either be more expensive Drow gear for sale that has been "specially treated" like the mace you can get that is adamantite, but golden/brown instead of that dark blue color, and works just fine above ground or you should be able to go to a temple of Lolth and have a priestess apply protection in the form of a blessing that when paid for, affects the equipment worn and/or held or something.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    lunasmeow said:

    Bugs aside, there should be a fix for Drow equipment, even if just for those who wish to collect some as proof of surviving the Underdark (like many adventurers would like). So there should either be more expensive Drow gear for sale that has been "specially treated" like the mace you can get that is adamantite, but golden/brown instead of that dark blue color, and works just fine above ground or you should be able to go to a temple of Lolth and have a priestess apply protection in the form of a blessing that when paid for, affects the equipment worn and/or held or something.

    I like this idea, but i would only want there to be 2-3 pieces at the most and you shouldn't be able to buy them. Could have one in each dungeon (Mind flayer, Kuo, Beholder). A unique full plate, a unique crossbow and perhaps a shield?
  • CatoblepasCatoblepas Member Posts: 96
    There are a few bits of Drow equipment you can get down there that don't disintegrate. The matron's Gorgon scale armor, and the sword you get from dueling for instance.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    elminster said:

    Anduin said:

    @Elminister‌ stop being a baby sith lord drama queen!

    Are drow weapons so coveted?

    Probably not but they do actually have very good bolts.
    Meh, Kuo-Toa bolts are pretty much the same thing.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    TJ_Hooker said:

    elminster said:

    Anduin said:

    @Elminister‌ stop being a baby sith lord drama queen!

    Are drow weapons so coveted?

    Probably not but they do actually have very good bolts.
    Meh, Kuo-Toa bolts are pretty much the same thing.
    Pretty much better I'd say. But the Drow crossbows are much great than any other. They give +3 to THAC0 and damage *and* an extra attack per round.
  • lunasmeowlunasmeow Member Posts: 7
    edited June 2014
    SionIV said:



    I like this idea, but i would only want there to be 2-3 pieces at the most and you shouldn't be able to buy them. Could have one in each dungeon (Mind flayer, Kuo, Beholder). A unique full plate, a unique crossbow and perhaps a shield?

    Why not buy them? Surely there are Drow who went to the surface with specially treated weapons that eventually died. Why not re-sell the used gear? Especially from the merchant just outside of the Drow city?

    As for limiting the pieces, I'd agree to limiting the quantity but I don't think they should limit the diversity. I'd hate to be limited to a plate mail if I wanted a chain mail or vice versa. Perhaps make the blessing increasingly expensive for each piece? Or more expensive depending on the armor/weapon? Larger items requiring more power to bless as they have more material to be protected could cost more?

    I really don't care how they implement it, as long as it fits the lore and it *is* implemented... Without limiting what type of equipment I can get. That's what they have already. One club, a suit of armor, and a sword. I don't use clubs, (except the one that kills undead in certain battles) the suit of armor is crap (would prefer the heavy armor +5), and so only the sword is useful.

    As for my earlier comment on bugs... New bugs like Hexxat I understand. She's broken in various ways, but she's new. It happens. Old *widely known* bugs from the original release (eg: Jaheira) are what should have been fixed prior to re-release. But even new bugs should be fixed prior to exploits. Bugs ruin fun for everyone. Exploits can't ruin fun. You *choose* to use those, therefore anyone complaining about them is a hypocrite, as it's their own fault for not having the self discipline to not use them. As such, bugs take priority over exploits.

    I mean, this is my first time playing BG. I didn't have the pleasure of playing the original. But when I heard about her quest being bugged from a friend who did, I wasn't worried because I thought, "This was known years ago. It must be fixed in the new version." only to have to spend *hours* screwing around with EEKeeper trying to fix a quest that should have been dealt with prior to release.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    lunasmeow said:

    SionIV said:



    I like this idea, but i would only want there to be 2-3 pieces at the most and you shouldn't be able to buy them. Could have one in each dungeon (Mind flayer, Kuo, Beholder). A unique full plate, a unique crossbow and perhaps a shield?

    Why not buy them? Surely there are Drow who went to the surface with specially treated weapons that eventually died. Why not re-sell the used gear? Especially from the merchant just outside of the Drow city?

    As for limiting the pieces, I'd agree to limiting the quantity but I don't think they should limit the diversity. I'd hate to be limited to a plate mail if I wanted a chain mail or vice versa. Perhaps make the blessing increasingly expensive for each piece? Or more expensive depending on the armor/weapon? Larger items requiring more power to bless as they have more material to be protected could cost more?

    I really don't care how they implement it, as long as it fits the lore and it *is* implemented... Without limiting what type of equipment I can get. That's what they have already. One club, a suit of armor, and a sword. I don't use clubs, (except the one that kills undead in certain battles) the suit of armor is crap (would prefer the heavy armor +5), and so only the sword is useful.
    Why not buy them? Because this game is already easy enough and you'll have so much money you won't know what to do with it at that point. It would be silly to add more than one of them to a shop, because it would remove the difficulty of obtaining them.

    It would be too unrealistic if you had one of each armor, especially in a shop. Just pick one armor type, you can't always have everything you want. I don't see the drow as the people who blessed them, that's why they are unique.

    "I really don't care how they implement it, as long as it fits the lore and it *is* implemented... Without limiting what type of equipment I can get."

    This contradict itself, you want it to fit lore yet you don't want it to get limited when it comes to what type of equipment. It's not going to fit the lore if a shopkeeper magically has one piece of every armor for you, what luck!
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    Anduin said:

    I have a solution.

    I have spent today polishing wood.

    Um, I'm not shaking hands with you any time soon.

    I do have to ask though, is anything down there SO great that all of this extra effort is necessary? Just askin.

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356


    I never find my party drowning in gold at that stage. Most of the gold they had in Athkatla has usually been spent on preparations (equipment, spell scrolls, etc.) before going to Brynnlaw, and the gold they gain in Brynnlaw/Spellhold/City-of-Caverns/Underdark mostly gets spent in the Ust Natha market (where there's some excellent equipment, a lot of new spell scrolls, etc.), so I don't usually leave the Underdark feeling very wealthy. I don't usually reach the stage of having more gold than I need until I'm in Amkethran.

    I have a much different experience. I always complete every single side quest I am capable of while in Chapter 2. I usually end up so flushed with cash that I can't carry it all. I make sure that I have bought up everything I will need that is available and I (RP) stash the rest in whatever Fortress (usually the planar sphere) I end up with. As for the 'price' to get to Brynnlaw, that can usually be garnered from doing any one of the side quests available, let alone all of them. However, I appreciate that not everyone completes the game the way I do. I totally respect others' way of playing the game.
    I play pretty completionist as well, so we're probably not doing it very differently, but nevertheless I usually find that I'm still short of gold until I reach Amkethran.

    However, it occurs to me that maybe you don't recharge empty wands and suchlike. I do, and that chews up a mountain of gold, so maybe that's the difference.
    SionIV said:

    I agree, even using the 100 000 (Imoen rescue) and 20 000 (spell casting) component from SCS and buying all equipment for a full party of 6 i'll still have a ton of gold.

    Then you're definitely not doing recharge-on-empty, @SionIV!
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Gallowglass - yep. That's a huge portion of it. I don't recharge wands. I've never felt the need for that. But then I never claimed to be a great player. I just play and have fun. if I die, I reload.

    Still, you'd have to recharge a boatload of wands.... After all is said and done (before heading off to Brynlawn), I usually have insane amounts of coin even with buying everything I need (Balduran Shield, Save the Solomnic Knights, various other items that Ribold has around the shop, plus some magic tinkering). But I also pack out anything worth more than 200 gp and sell it.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356

    Still, you'd have to recharge a boatload of wands....

    I do use wands (etc.) quite a bit, so that I can have other spells memorised instead of the ones I can replicate with wands. Thus I don't need to memorise Fireball, or Cloudkill, or low-level Summonings, or Flamestrike, and so on. Later on, I don't need to memorise Breach or Pierce Magic or Resurrection either. Once only the last charge is left, I sell the wand (or whatever), and later buy it back fully charged when I can afford it. So yes, over the course of the game I'll recharge a boatload.

    After all is said and done (before heading off to Brynlawn), I usually have insane amounts of coin even with buying everything I need (Balduran Shield, Save the Solomnic Knights, various other items that Ribold has around the shop, plus some magic tinkering). But I also pack out anything worth more than 200 gp and sell it.

    In my last run, I was so short of cash for stuff that I wanted to buy before going to Brynnlaw, that I had to sell off all the minor magical items from my stash, keeping only unique named items. I arrived in Brynnlaw with only my last couple of thousand of gold left (but I was well-equipped!) (It's a good thing that there's only 1 item worth buying in Brynnlaw!)
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689


    I never find my party drowning in gold at that stage. Most of the gold they had in Athkatla has usually been spent on preparations (equipment, spell scrolls, etc.) before going to Brynnlaw, and the gold they gain in Brynnlaw/Spellhold/City-of-Caverns/Underdark mostly gets spent in the Ust Natha market (where there's some excellent equipment, a lot of new spell scrolls, etc.), so I don't usually leave the Underdark feeling very wealthy. I don't usually reach the stage of having more gold than I need until I'm in Amkethran.

    I have a much different experience. I always complete every single side quest I am capable of while in Chapter 2. I usually end up so flushed with cash that I can't carry it all. I make sure that I have bought up everything I will need that is available and I (RP) stash the rest in whatever Fortress (usually the planar sphere) I end up with. As for the 'price' to get to Brynnlaw, that can usually be garnered from doing any one of the side quests available, let alone all of them. However, I appreciate that not everyone completes the game the way I do. I totally respect others' way of playing the game.
    I play pretty completionist as well, so we're probably not doing it very differently, but nevertheless I usually find that I'm still short of gold until I reach Amkethran.

    However, it occurs to me that maybe you don't recharge empty wands and suchlike. I do, and that chews up a mountain of gold, so maybe that's the difference.
    SionIV said:

    I agree, even using the 100 000 (Imoen rescue) and 20 000 (spell casting) component from SCS and buying all equipment for a full party of 6 i'll still have a ton of gold.

    Then you're definitely not doing recharge-on-empty, @SionIV!
    I recharge the wands of resurrection, the others aren't needed in my playthroughs.

    There are so many full plates and magically enhanced weapons that are useless which you can sell for a lot of gold, I've never ever had problem with gold in any of my BG2 games.
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @Gallowglass - I am quite the hoarder, so I'd rather cast the spell and keep the wand 'just in case' (potions as well). It's merely a different way to play the game. I don't know if either is 'more valid' than the other if such exists. We both enjoy and that is enough.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    edited June 2014
    I recharge literally every single Wand...
    ... At Gorch's Shop, of course!


    (Yes, sell the wands and then steal them back)
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