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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2017
    But with the Trumpster there is good reason to be suspicious - he makes exaggerated claims about voter fraud, Muslims, number of floors on his buildings, Mexicans, crowd sizes, etc. He has been a huckster of a fraudulent "University" and filed bankruptcies multiple times.


    If hypothetically he would release his returns and they were all like that then I'd be like why were you so afraid and hiding it this whole time? But I think there's​ close to no chance that's the case.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    It's nice to see Trump taking time out of his busy schedule today to honor a genocidal butcher like Andrew Jackson. Nothing says pure, unadulterared American exceptionalism like slaughtering an indigenous population.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Six Euro countries are cooperating to create an artificial power island in the North Sea that will supply renewable energy to 80 million people in Europe by 2050.

    But the USA has the last laugh we're going to invest in coal and uncooperation with other countries.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Hey, we could hook up a windmill to the oval office. There's enough hot air coming out of there to power a small city! Hook another one up at the Capitol building, 50 more (one for each state) at state capitols and throw in a few thousand for county and large city governments and we'd probably have enough energy to run the entire country. Every time they lied it'd be powering our refrigerators!
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Balrog99 said:

    @deltago : Would your opinion change if all of his returns were released and they were similar to this one? If he then said he didn't release them because he felt they weren't anyone's business but his own, would you be at all sympathetic? This is hypothetical of course but the way my mind operates I'm far more private in my own dealings than many younger people are today. Barring some law requiring it I doubt I would have released my returns either. I know, apples to oranges, but I at least understand that way of thinking.

    No, because people aren't asking for all of his returns. What do candidates usually release; their last one? That is what I wouls expect.

    Releasing something that is over a decade old just raises my suspisions up more than not releasing anything at all.

    I do get the privacy part of it, and I do get, that as a business owner, releasing the records could compromise current and future dealings. If he came out with that excuse first, I think a lot of people would have laid off him about it.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    edited March 2017
    Technically he didn't 'release' it. At least not officially. In my case I'd be more worried that I made a mistake on it and would be crucified for it. I did my own taxes back in '05!
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 said:

    Technically he didn't 'release' it. At least not officially. In my case I'd be more worried that I made a mistake on it and would be crucified for it. I did my own taxes back in '05!

    Most plausible explanation is he found the best year he possibly could, and sent a nearly meaningless 1040 form for that year to this reporter. Even this one year would probably have 100s of pages of itemizations. Now he can (I guess) say 3 things: a.) my taxes have now been released (not true) b.) the media broke the law and stole my information (also not true) and c.) a distraction from the shit show everything else his administration is involved with.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    Six Euro countries are cooperating to create an artificial power island in the North Sea that will supply renewable energy to 80 million people in Europe by 2050.

    But the USA has the last laugh we're going to invest in coal and uncooperation with other countries.

    Only $1 billion euro? That sounds like the lowest bidder to me. Those windmills are expensive. I also wonder if they factored in the lawsuits over endangering some rare species of sandpiper.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017


    Shame the 'scrutiny' over taxes wasn't equal and fair across all candidates.

    The whole discussion of 'fair share' seems to miss the angle of, should those who pay more taxes be acknowledged for contributing more to society?

    Regardless, its obvious that the whole 'tax returns' is a partisan political issue, Trump critics won't really ever be satisfied even if every tax returns shows he paid alot of taxes.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Well unless their incomes were all roughly the same, direct comparisons of percentages aren't all that relevant. Do you have the data in total tax dollars paid? That would be more interesting to me than a percentage of income.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    I used to follow it briefly but can't remember the exact amounts off the top of my head, all i do remember is that everyone goes ham on deductibles as much as possible.

    Anyone following the Dutch?

    It looks like Rutte will come first then Geert Wilders party second.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    edited March 2017
    vanatos said:

    I used to follow it briefly but can't remember the exact amounts off the top of my head, all i do remember is that everyone goes ham on deductibles as much as possible.

    Anyone following the Dutch?

    It looks like Rutte will come first then Geert Wilders party second.

    I personally think that if you don't take advantage of all of your tax deductions that would make you an idiot. If you really want to make your money count for charity you can donate to the cause of your choice and write that off too. Of course if you don't do your research there are plenty of charitable organizations that would be more than happy to take advantage of you so you have to do your 'due diligence' there too...
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    edited March 2017
    On North Korea: one potential future destabilising element may be if Japan's population becomes unnerved enough by NK and loses faith in the US nuclear umbrella. (To a lesser extent, this goes for SK too.) If Japan then decides to adopt a local nuclear deterrent then conflict will become more likely. There is plenty of emnity in Japan towards NK due to incidents such as kidnappings of Japanese citizens during the cold war, which makes it hard to build trust.

    The NK regime basically boils down to a ruling clique with some money and comforts that is terrified of revolution in my opinion. If it were feasible to pension them off and promise them immunity then the NK problem might actually have been solvable.
    Post edited by Mantis37 on
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    Some of NK's hostility towards Japan is justifiable. The WW2 belligerents got off pretty easy due to the threat of the Soviet Union in my opinion.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    vanatos said:



    Shame the 'scrutiny' over taxes wasn't equal and fair across all candidates.

    The whole discussion of 'fair share' seems to miss the angle of, should those who pay more taxes be acknowledged for contributing more to society?

    Regardless, its obvious that the whole 'tax returns' is a partisan political issue, Trump critics won't really ever be satisfied even if every tax returns shows he paid alot of taxes.

    Most of us don't care how much he paid. We're interested in what it reveals about his financial dealings and ties. And the fact that every single President since (wait for it).....Nixon has released them going back up to 20 years to assure the public they aren't beholden to outisde interests because of direct financial entanglements. The mere fact that Trump will not release them suggests that, far more likely than not, he is hiding something in them.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    edited March 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    Some of NK's hostility towards Japan is justifiable. The WW2 belligerents got off pretty easy due to the threat of the Soviet Union in my opinion.

    Well the Korean War was an immense boost to the Japanese economy, although rather confusing for the Japanese ruling class. No sooner had they promulgated a pacifist constitution than the Americans are requesting the manufacture of an arsenal of weapons and maybe some troops too!

    Given that WW2 partly stemmed from an overly harsh WW1 settlement I'm not overly bothered by the leniency, much of Japan was a smoking wreck with a lot of malnourished people by the end.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited March 2017
    That chart needs a revison for a number of reasons. Is it all available returns? If so then 25% one year 0% the other year so he averages out to the bottom. Is it just last years returns? Then who the hell knows because Trump's ashamed and hid his returns.

    Who leaked that tax return that makes Trump look good? Was it John Barron?

    Or it might be The Reason Donald Trump’s 2005 Tax Return Was So Yuge? Chinese Investors. That describes why 2005 might be the best one that he could have leaked.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    That chart needs a revison for a number of reasons. Is it all available returns? If so then 25% one year 0% the other year so he averages out to the bottom. Is it just last years returns? Then who the hell knows because Trump's ashamed and hid his returns.

    Who leaked that tax return that makes Trump look good? Was it John Barron?

    Or it might be The Reason Donald Trump’s 2005 Tax Return Was So Yuge? Chinese Investors? That describes why 2005 might be the best one that he could have leaked.

    I think Trump released it to show both a year he paid a decent amount of taxes AND the only year in recent history he could show that kind of influx in wealth. Let me put it this way: what BILLIONAIRE starts hawking frozen steaks and running a scam University??
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017


    Most of us don't care how much he paid. We're interested in what it reveals about his financial dealings and ties. And the fact that every single President since (wait for it).....Nixon has released them going back up to 20 years to assure the public they aren't beholden to outisde interests because of direct financial entanglements. The mere fact that Trump will not release them suggests that, far more likely than not, he is hiding something in them.

    What was in Trump's financial papers?
    And yes, 'most of us' did care how much he paid, since that was the political angle against Trump and took up pages of discussion on rich/middle-class payment to taxes here itself.

    Shifting the argument because it so happens Trump seems to have paid a huge amount comparatively to the other Political candidates doesn't inspire confidence in this discussion.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    edited March 2017
    Mantis37 said:

    Balrog99 said:

    Some of NK's hostility towards Japan is justifiable. The WW2 belligerents got off pretty easy due to the threat of the Soviet Union in my opinion.

    Well the Korean War was an immense boost to the Japanese economy, although rather confusing for the Japanese ruling class. No sooner had they promulgated a pacifist constitution than the Americans are requesting the manufacture of an arsenal of weapons and maybe some troops too!

    Given that WW2 partly stemmed from an overly harsh WW1 settlement I'm not overly bothered by the leniency, much of Japan was a smoking wreck with a lot of malnourished people by the end.
    That might be true for Germany but it's certainly not true for Japan. The only thing they might have been pissed about was not getting enough out of WW1. Considering they were only on the periphery and merely took out some German islands and one poorly defended base in China, I hardly think that the Great War was any provocation for their expansionism!
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    Rutte is expected to win over Geert Wilders and the Christian party.

    It looks like the trend is again, diminished support for Rutte's party over the last election and increasing support for alternative parties.

    Geert Wilders and the Christian Party both earning more Seats and closely tied to the last election.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    vanatos said:


    Most of us don't care how much he paid. We're interested in what it reveals about his financial dealings and ties. And the fact that every single President since (wait for it).....Nixon has released them going back up to 20 years to assure the public they aren't beholden to outisde interests because of direct financial entanglements. The mere fact that Trump will not release them suggests that, far more likely than not, he is hiding something in them.

    What was in Trump's financial papers?
    And yes, 'most of us' did care how much he paid, since that was the political angle against Trump and took up pages of discussion on rich/middle-class payment to taxes here itself.

    Shifting the argument because it so happens Trump seems to have paid a huge amount comparatively to the other Political candidates doesn't inspire confidence in this discussion.
    Since I didn't even participate in that string of posts I'm not sure how I'm "shifting" anything.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037

    You don't want to hear it Mathsorcerer but what you said IS fair.

    I always err on the side of hearing the truth.

  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    edited March 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    Mantis37 said:

    Balrog99 said:

    Some of NK's hostility towards Japan is justifiable. The WW2 belligerents got off pretty easy due to the threat of the Soviet Union in my opinion.

    Well the Korean War was an immense boost to the Japanese economy, although rather confusing for the Japanese ruling class. No sooner had they promulgated a pacifist constitution than the Americans are requesting the manufacture of an arsenal of weapons and maybe some troops too!

    Given that WW2 partly stemmed from an overly harsh WW1 settlement I'm not overly bothered by the leniency, much of Japan was a smoking wreck with a lot of malnourished people by the end.
    That might be true for Germany but it's certainly not true for Japan. The only thing they might have been pissed about was not getting enough out of WW1. Considering they were only on the periphery and merely took out some German islands and one poorly defended base in China, I hardly think that the Great War was any provocation for their expansionism!
    I would agree. Japan was slightly annoyed about the rejection of a racial equality clause in the treaty of Versailles, but WWI actually made them a creditor nation temporarily. However the example of Germany post-WWI among other historical examples gives me the impression that we have to be careful about being punitive toward entire countries, as opposed to individuals. A number of political figures on the right in Japan and other countries were quickly absolved of any wartime misdeeds in order to stem the tide against communism. Similarly scientists were also co-opted of course, from fields like rocketry in Germany and chemical warfare in Japan. The story of Unit 731 is a particularly horrible example. The secrecy which surrounded those sorts of bargains has helped to contribute to Japan's partial failure, in comparison to Germany, to face up to its past.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    vanatos said:

    Rutte is expected to win over Geert Wilders and the Christian party.

    It looks like the trend is again, diminished support for Rutte's party over the last election and increasing support for alternative parties.

    Geert Wilders and the Christian Party both earning more Seats and closely tied to the last election.

    Sounds to me like the Netherlands remains a nation of sane grown-ups who didn't want to put a white Nationalist in power. We should try that here.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited March 2017
    Hillary calling half of Trump supporters deplorable's probably didn't help her win.


    Japan's fukushima disaster is still so bad robots can't get through.
    Wonder if they'll concrete sarcophagus the whole thing like Chernobyl.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/09/fukushima-nuclear-cleanup-falters-six-years-after-tsunami
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,177
    The waste from the Fukushima area has been buried in small quantities all over the country, plenty more of that to look forward to... Six years later and only a few nuclear power stations are online in Japan- the courts blocked several reactors from restarting. Now there's an industry that got so far into bed with the government that it's hard to disentangle them... Interesting to compare Germany's decision to decommision although Japan is of course a country which is relatively sparse in natural resources and so has trouble with finding a baseline fuel (geothermal has some potential though...).

    All in all, it probably isn't the best time to try doing the Olympics, even if that's just an excuse for more public works based corruption... (FIFA & the Olympics have lost a lot of their shine in recent years...)
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    vanatos said:

    Hillary calling half of Trump supporters deplorable's probably didn't help her win.


    Japan's fukushima disaster is still so bad robots can't get through.
    Wonder if they'll concrete sarcophagus the whole thing like Chernobyl.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/mar/09/fukushima-nuclear-cleanup-falters-six-years-after-tsunami

    I think the problem was that she said it, then she backed down. She should have stuck with it. Trump certainly doesn't back down on anything even when the truth is obvious in his face and to an extent that is good not to back down. Sure he takes it too far and has to win every single battle even over the dumb stuff and the stuff that objective reality shows that he is clearly wrong about.

    Hillary should have said I meant what I said. Like Steve King or Trump. She should have said it's true there are a lot of deplorables who are Trump supporters - there are David Duke, Milo, etc. Anyway, water under the bridge she lost the election it is over. It's Trump mess that he's lying in.

    Hopefully the Democrats learn something from the election because there is a great opportunity going forward to reshape the party. With Trump's historic unpopularity and the general floundering of the Republican party it should be clear to voters that GOP has no idea how to lead. They are great at complaining about Government but now that they are in charge they excel at bumbling and infighting and generally running things into the ground. For example, it was all well and good to vote to repeal Obamacare when there was no chance that it would actually happen. So easy to claim that it was a disaster and saying they'd repeal it on day one. They had 7 years to make a replacement and we're seeing the results, a buncha morons with no clue.
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