The full quote was Clinton saying that half of Trump supporters were deplorables, but the other half were decent people with valid complaints that we need to listen to.
You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic -- you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people -- now 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks -- they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America."
"But the other basket -- and I know this because I see friends from all over America here -- I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas -- as well as, you know, New York and California -- but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they're just desperate for change. It doesn't really even matter where it comes from. They don't buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won't wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroin, feel like they're in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well.
Empathy for your political opponents. That's precisely what we need these days.
There's a difference between the way folks criticized Clinton's and Trump's statements. When folks criticized Trump's statements, they quoted him in full.
Hopefully the Democrats learn something from the election because there is a great opportunity going forward to reshape the party.
Some Democrats already wonder about the future of their party given that Tom Perez, an Obama and Clinton insider, was elected as Chair even though he wisely made his first official decision to name Keith Ellison as co-Chair. Ellison faced stiff opposition from pro-Israel Democrats (Ellison is a practicing Sunni Muslim) but had wide support from the same subsets of the Democrat Party who supported Sanders.
Interesting that nobody cares about Ellison's ties to the overtly, unapologetically racist and anti semitic Nation of Islam. If 1% of the energy devoted to Kremlinspiracies and anti racist rhetoric were devoted to booting real bigots from the highest levels of their own party maybe he wouldn't be one of the most influential Democrats around.
Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct in her assessment of the breakdown of Trump supporters. Has anyone ever watched a Trump rally?? It's like watching a fascist amateur hour. JUST yesterday a 30 second "lock her up" chant took place while he was speaking in Tennessee.
In hindsight, nothing he did shored up his core support as much as when he came down that escalator and called Mexicans rapists. That was the kind of straight-up Birth of a Nation rhetoric the GOP base had been dying to hear for YEARS. They don't like Trump in spite of him being an asshole and a bully, they like him BECAUSE he's an asshole and a bully. Trump's primary appeal is that a good portion of white America feels like he is going to put "those people" back in their place.
Yep and the JewSA guy and all that - deplorables. Not all Trump supporters are like that but the good ones don't seem to be vocal enough about distancing themselves from the bad ones. At best they seem to be tolerated.
There's a difference between the way folks criticized Clinton's and Trump's statements. When folks criticized Trump's statements, they quoted him in full.
That's partially because he speaks at a 3rd grade reading level. "We'll do it the best and it will be beautiful. Sad." is easier to quote instead of nuanced policy talk. Hillary should not have apologized to the deplorables they hated her already and an apology wouldn't change that.
Interesting that nobody cares about Ellison's ties to the overtly, unapologetically racist and anti semitic Nation of Islam. If 1% of the energy devoted to Kremlinspiracies and anti racist rhetoric were devoted to booting real bigots from the highest levels of their own party maybe he wouldn't be one of the most influential Democrats around.
I don't know enough about that to comment. From what little I heard that was a smear made by pro-corporate Democrats.
Richard Burr, the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, issued a statement that there was no evidence that Trump tower was ever under surveillance from any government agency, during or after the 2016 election.
Richard Burr, the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, issued a statement that there was no evidence that Trump tower was ever under surveillance from any government agency, during or after the 2016 election.
Which anyone with any sense could (and did) claim with absolutely 100% certainty the moment this entire issue surfaced. Will 40% of Americans now care that their President falsely accused his predecessor of a felony and that he is a pathological liar of historic proportions?? Of course they won't.....
The full quote was Clinton saying that half of Trump supporters were deplorables, but the other half were decent people with valid complaints that we need to listen to.
Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct in her assessment of the breakdown of Trump supporters
Sorry, but i 100% morally disagree with her statement and consider it abhorrent, nor do i try to make excuses for it.
I consider it flatly hypocritical to criticize Trump on moral grounds, but defend Hillary on actually saying half of his voter-base are essentially monsters.
In her words:
'You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic '
That she says the other half are 'ok' doesn't suddenly make her statement wonderfully ok, And it amazes me such an argument could even be made.
'Half of blacks are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, The other Half we should listen too'.
I wouldn't accept this statement either, nor would i even dream of saying i'm making an empathetic statement.
The full quote was Clinton saying that half of Trump supporters were deplorables, but the other half were decent people with valid complaints that we need to listen to.
Hillary Clinton was absolutely correct in her assessment of the breakdown of Trump supporters
Sorry, but i 100% morally disagree with her statement and consider it abhorrent, nor do i try to make excuses for it.
I consider it flatly hypocritical to criticize Trump on moral grounds, but defend Hillary on actually saying half of his voter-base are essentially monsters.
In her words:
'You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic '
Anyone who defends this trash loses the moral argument instantly.
And just like all right-wingers, you omit the rest of the quote. But the real point is she was right on the money:
"Nearly half of Trump's supporters described African Americans as more "violent" than whites. The same proportion described African Americans as more "criminal" than whites, while 40 percent described them as more "lazy" than whites."
And just like all right-wingers, you omit the rest of the quote. But the real point is she was right on the money:
"Nearly half of Trump's supporters described African Americans as more "violent" than whites. The same proportion described African Americans as more "criminal" than whites, while 40 percent described them as more "lazy" than whites."
Maybe you don't find that sort of racism deplorable, but I do.
Because i don't rely on on-line polls to affirm my stereotypes, the same reason why i don't consider democrats fundamentally immoral for supporting Keith Ellison who himself has far more dangerous ties to radical Islam, which the exact same argument can be made.
'just like all right-wingers', I didn't vote for Trump, nor am i White.
But go ahead and engage in generalizations based on stereotypes, while you complain about it too.
And just like all right-wingers, you omit the rest of the quote. But the real point is she was right on the money:
"Nearly half of Trump's supporters described African Americans as more "violent" than whites. The same proportion described African Americans as more "criminal" than whites, while 40 percent described them as more "lazy" than whites."
Maybe you don't find that sort of racism deplorable, but I do.
Because i don't rely on on-line polls to affirm my stereotypes, the same reason why i don't consider democrats fundamentally immoral for supporting Keith Ellison who himself has far more dangerous ties to radical Islam.
'just like all right-wingers', I didn't vote for Trump, nor am i White.
But go ahead and engage in generalizations based on stereotypes, while you complain about it too.
It wasn't an online poll, it was a survey. I agree on Ellison, his ties to Brotherhood aligned groups is well documented.
I didn't say you voted for Trump, nor did I say you were white. You have, in this thread, espoused views that line up pretty well with right wing American politics, and that's all I have to go on. Perhaps "conservative" would have been a better choice of words. I'm not surprised you didn't vote for Trump, he's not really conservative himself.
I didn't say you voted for Trump, nor did I say you were white. You have, in this thread, espoused views that line up pretty well with right wing American politics, and that's all I have to go on. Perhaps "conservative" would have been a better choice of words. I'm not surprised you didn't vote for Trump, he's not really conservative himself.
Then there isn't enough information on an internet forums to ever describe my position, to which i would only tentatively say reliably is something like a Historical Empiricist, There is no eternal or universal position, especially politically, as things work only due to circumstance.
The only thing's that could be eternal for our race is physiology, like Hunger.
@vanatos: To be fair, nearly every post you've made in this thread is at least partly right of center, in terms of your sources, your reasoning, your assumptions, and/or your conclusions. Your posts only represents a fraction of your beliefs and your thinking, true, but our only exposure to your ideas is what you post in this thread, and here, you've essentially been a conservative version of @jjstraka34.
But in all seriousness, I've seen a lot of variance among posters here. On multiple issues we've seen 100% agreement between consistently liberal and consistently conservative posters. An old professor of mine said that, very often, the only reason people disagree is because they're talking about two completely different things.
What does "Historical Empiricist" mean? I'm a historian by training and it sounds like a form of methodology or school of thought.
"There is no eternal or universal position, especially politically, as things work only due to circumstance."
This. Only human needs are eternal and universal and politics are merely a means toward those ends, political ideology should never be an end in itself. Good insight.
Trump's budget calls for devastating cuts to not only after-school programs that help feed hungry children, but also.....Meals on Wheels. Because god knows we can't spend anymore money on those parasitic elderly shut-ins when there are bombs to be built and tax breaks for corporations to ram through. The GOP is about 3 months away from having their official platform be "poor people should be left to die in the streets".
To this government, your worth is based on your bank account. If you get sick and can't afford insurance, shake it off or die. If your grandma can't get out of the house to get food, or can't pay someone to do it for her, she can starve. If you are Muslim or Hispanic, we will use rhetoric that tars each and every one of you with a social stigma that you are to be feared and loathed. Revolting.
What does "Historical Empiricist" mean? I'm a historian by training and it sounds like a form of methodology or school of thought.
I probably made it sound grander then it really is.
Basically my default method of what 'position' or solution for a social problem, is basically to look at human social history and see what has worked, hopefully what method of solving a problem has worked often in history.
But Human history is very rarely kind, and often what has 'worked' is neither kind nor gentle, often i am forced to reconsider my own views and admit the only realistic solution could be brutal for some problems in human society.
I envy those who are comfortable in a perspective of simple morals or principles, it requires less rigor, No need to go to a library, Sounds nicer and more idealistic and seems altogether more pleasant.
Alot of us start like this because we grow up indoctrinated by social ideals, I have many friends who are very idealistic and i understand that our world-views are simply too different for any meaningful discussion, very often i simply trust that if i am right, eventually reality will show it but with devastating results sadly.
For example, i understand that some of my friends were very enthusiastic about welcoming the large amount of refugee's and migrants into Europe without restriction, i understood they had this perspective from an ideal of helping the poor and disadvantaged.
I believed that such a wide-scale social policy would probably not be workable on a national level, and very likely more harm will be caused by this policy.
Well time will tell whether thing's will work out, but right now I think it hasn't worked out very well.
Women feel unsafe. Constant attacks, even on creating national news often. The mere need for refugee camps with horrible Conditions. Every politician even Angela Merkel saying they have to cut down and restrict migration. Political mess for the EU nation-states. Brussels begging other nations to offload their burden. Nation-States clamping down hard on migration. Economic and social burden for future generations to sort out. Negative affect on tourism. Unknown diseases rampant in refugee camps. Persecution of Gays, tribal conflict, inter-religious conflict, rape.
I used to be part of a group that tracked the news of the unfolding crisis, and i just gave up after 6 months because it was a constant stream of horrifying news.
For example, very often refugee charity groups would silence occasions of Rape when their own female helpers are raped when helping in refugee camps.
In many places of Europe now, women don't go out at night like before, my friend who is a travelling buff goes all over Europe every year, remarks how the mood has changed.
With all due respect, of course, I can't believe you would even say terrorist attacks haven't come true after....all of 2016 really. Is there a single place it hasn't come true?
Why do i mention this? Because this is reality in Europe also for the migrant crisis, Police are instructed quite literally to not report, and not mention rape by migrants.
Despite that, we still get an unending deluge of horrifying stories daily.
At first, there was complete silence from officials. As rumors spread on social media, police had nothing to say about allegations of mass sexual assaults and other crimes carried out on New Year's Eve in the German city of Cologne.
It was only days later that officials reported that hundreds of women were victims of assault in Cologne, Hamburg and other German cities.
But numbers that are now emerging are likely to shock a country still coming to terms with what happened in Cologne more than half a year ago. According to a leaked police document, published by Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper and broadcasters NDR and WDR, the previous estimates have to be dramatically revised — upward.
Authorities now think that on New Year's Eve, more than 1,200 women were sexually assaulted in various German cities, including more than 600 in Cologne and about 400 in Hamburg.
More than 2,000 men were allegedly involved, and 120 suspects — about half of them foreign nationals who had only recently arrived in Germany — have been identified.
Only four have been convicted, but more trials are underway.
On Thursday, a court in Cologne sentenced two men in the New Year's Eve assaults. Hussein A., a 21-year-old Iraqi, and Hassan T., a 26-year-old Algerian, were handed suspended one-year sentences. Both arrived in Germany in the past two years, a court spokesman said. He declined to specify whether the two had sought asylum.
Officials have linked the sexual assaults to the influx of refugees. "There is a connection between the emergence of this phenomenon and the rapid migration in 2015," Holger Münch, president of the German Federal Crime Police Office, told Sueddeutsche Zeitung. Many suspects had originally come to Germany from North African countries rather than Syria, officials said.
Comments
In hindsight, nothing he did shored up his core support as much as when he came down that escalator and called Mexicans rapists. That was the kind of straight-up Birth of a Nation rhetoric the GOP base had been dying to hear for YEARS. They don't like Trump in spite of him being an asshole and a bully, they like him BECAUSE he's an asshole and a bully. Trump's primary appeal is that a good portion of white America feels like he is going to put "those people" back in their place.
I consider it flatly hypocritical to criticize Trump on moral grounds, but defend Hillary on actually saying half of his voter-base are essentially monsters.
In her words:
'You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic '
That she says the other half are 'ok' doesn't suddenly make her statement wonderfully ok, And it amazes me such an argument could even be made.
'Half of blacks are racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamophobic, The other Half we should listen too'.
I wouldn't accept this statement either, nor would i even dream of saying i'm making an empathetic statement.
"Nearly half of Trump's supporters described African Americans as more "violent" than whites. The same proportion described African Americans as more "criminal" than whites, while 40 percent described them as more "lazy" than whites."
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-race-idUSKCN0ZE2SW
Maybe you don't find that sort of racism deplorable, but I do.
'just like all right-wingers', I didn't vote for Trump, nor am i White.
But go ahead and engage in generalizations based on stereotypes, while you complain about it too.
I didn't say you voted for Trump, nor did I say you were white. You have, in this thread, espoused views that line up pretty well with right wing American politics, and that's all I have to go on. Perhaps "conservative" would have been a better choice of words. I'm not surprised you didn't vote for Trump, he's not really conservative himself.
I don't trust online poll's, because I mess around with them all the time. Then there isn't enough information on an internet forums to ever describe my position, to which i would only tentatively say reliably is something like a Historical Empiricist, There is no eternal or universal position, especially politically, as things work only due to circumstance.
The only thing's that could be eternal for our race is physiology, like Hunger.
But in all seriousness, I've seen a lot of variance among posters here. On multiple issues we've seen 100% agreement between consistently liberal and consistently conservative posters. An old professor of mine said that, very often, the only reason people disagree is because they're talking about two completely different things.
What does "Historical Empiricist" mean? I'm a historian by training and it sounds like a form of methodology or school of thought.
This. Only human needs are eternal and universal and politics are merely a means toward those ends, political ideology should never be an end in itself. Good insight.
To this government, your worth is based on your bank account. If you get sick and can't afford insurance, shake it off or die. If your grandma can't get out of the house to get food, or can't pay someone to do it for her, she can starve. If you are Muslim or Hispanic, we will use rhetoric that tars each and every one of you with a social stigma that you are to be feared and loathed. Revolting.
Basically my default method of what 'position' or solution for a social problem, is basically to look at human social history and see what has worked, hopefully what method of solving a problem has worked often in history.
But Human history is very rarely kind, and often what has 'worked' is neither kind nor gentle, often i am forced to reconsider my own views and admit the only realistic solution could be brutal for some problems in human society.
I envy those who are comfortable in a perspective of simple morals or principles, it requires less rigor, No need to go to a library, Sounds nicer and more idealistic and seems altogether more pleasant.
Alot of us start like this because we grow up indoctrinated by social ideals, I have many friends who are very idealistic and i understand that our world-views are simply too different for any meaningful discussion, very often i simply trust that if i am right, eventually reality will show it but with devastating results sadly.
For example, i understand that some of my friends were very enthusiastic about welcoming the large amount of refugee's and migrants into Europe without restriction, i understood they had this perspective from an ideal of helping the poor and disadvantaged.
I believed that such a wide-scale social policy would probably not be workable on a national level, and very likely more harm will be caused by this policy.
Well time will tell whether thing's will work out, but right now I think it hasn't worked out very well.
Constant attacks, even on creating national news often.
The mere need for refugee camps with horrible Conditions.
Every politician even Angela Merkel saying they have to cut down and restrict migration.
Political mess for the EU nation-states.
Brussels begging other nations to offload their burden.
Nation-States clamping down hard on migration.
Economic and social burden for future generations to sort out.
Negative affect on tourism.
Unknown diseases rampant in refugee camps.
Persecution of Gays, tribal conflict, inter-religious conflict, rape.
I used to be part of a group that tracked the news of the unfolding crisis, and i just gave up after 6 months because it was a constant stream of horrifying news.
For example, very often refugee charity groups would silence occasions of Rape when their own female helpers are raped when helping in refugee camps.
In many places of Europe now, women don't go out at night like before, my friend who is a travelling buff goes all over Europe every year, remarks how the mood has changed.
Never saw the light of day, Police and Goernment officials hushed it up, until the story broke out recently.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/697583/Rotherham-abuse-scandal-child-grooming-gangs-industrial-scale-victims-CSE
Why do i mention this? Because this is reality in Europe also for the migrant crisis, Police are instructed quite literally to not report, and not mention rape by migrants.
Despite that, we still get an unending deluge of horrifying stories daily.
I'm American but lived in Europe for 7 years and travelled and often felt safer there than I have in lots of places in America.
Never really felt threats around every corner thing you seem to be describing. Can any Euros provide confirmation to European Carnage these days?
It was only days later that officials reported that hundreds of women were victims of assault in Cologne, Hamburg and other German cities.
But numbers that are now emerging are likely to shock a country still coming to terms with what happened in Cologne more than half a year ago. According to a leaked police document, published by Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung newspaper and broadcasters NDR and WDR, the previous estimates have to be dramatically revised — upward.
Authorities now think that on New Year's Eve, more than 1,200 women were sexually assaulted in various German cities, including more than 600 in Cologne and about 400 in Hamburg.
More than 2,000 men were allegedly involved, and 120 suspects — about half of them foreign nationals who had only recently arrived in Germany — have been identified.
Only four have been convicted, but more trials are underway.
On Thursday, a court in Cologne sentenced two men in the New Year's Eve assaults. Hussein A., a 21-year-old Iraqi, and Hassan T., a 26-year-old Algerian, were handed suspended one-year sentences. Both arrived in Germany in the past two years, a court spokesman said. He declined to specify whether the two had sought asylum.
Officials have linked the sexual assaults to the influx of refugees. "There is a connection between the emergence of this phenomenon and the rapid migration in 2015," Holger Münch, president of the German Federal Crime Police Office, told Sueddeutsche Zeitung. Many suspects had originally come to Germany from North African countries rather than Syria, officials said.
He also predicted that many of the New Year's Eve perpetrators will never be convicted. "We have to presume that many of those crimes will never be fully investigated." Germany has relatively low CCTV coverage, which makes it more difficult for investigators to identify suspects.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/07/10/leaked-document-says-2000-men-allegedly-assaulted-1200-german-women-on-new-years-eve/
Yes, mass sexual assault in the thousand was not even reported until social media blew it up.
This is the reality in Europe.