Skip to content

Politics. The feel in your country.

1378379381383384635

Comments

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited December 2017
    Republicans have stolen judges, rammed through legislation in the middle of the night aimed at throwing cash at corporations and raising middle class taxes and taking their health insurance. They've taken away children's health insurance program. They ended the Dream act creating a crisis for no good reason. Puerto Rico still has no power to 50% of the island. They support pedophiles and sexual assaulters. They are for removing the separation of church and state -they are now advocating for Christianity at the exclusion of all other faiths. Additionally, there was a gutting of the Johnson ammendment in the Senate tax plan at one point, it's probably still there so Republicans have opened a new avenue for money to pour into politics. They've acted unilaterally and have shown their true colors.
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    This makes me feel really uncomfortable:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/arctic-alaska-republicans-national-wildlife-refuge-senate-tax-plan-polar-bears-donald-trump-a8088151.html

    Maybe I'm just very naïve and maybe this sort of thing happens in other countries as well as the USA but I fail to see how it is acceptable to pass a piece of environmental legislation by slipping it into a tax reform bill.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    dunbar said:

    This makes me feel really uncomfortable:
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/arctic-alaska-republicans-national-wildlife-refuge-senate-tax-plan-polar-bears-donald-trump-a8088151.html

    Maybe I'm just very naïve and maybe this sort of thing happens in other countries as well as the USA but I fail to see how it is acceptable to pass a piece of environmental legislation by slipping it into a tax reform bill.

    Aside from the fact that every oil pipeline that has finally gotten approval in the last decade are springing leaks on a regular basis, and that the companies running them are simply ignoring all safety protocols. Most people may remember the situation here in ND with the Dakota Access Pipeline going straight through Native American land. 3 leaks this year alone, and it isn't even fully operational. But moreover, the company running the pipeline didn't know about one of the leaks for 5 DAYS, and it was only discovered because a member of the public ran across it. Which can only mean they simply aren't willing to even invest in technology that alerts them to massive oil spills. Because they don't give a shit.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    Calling it now.

    Flake, who got on board with this with future DACA (DREAM act) deals. There will be no such deals, such legislation will die in committee or on the floors.

    Of course there won't be. The same can be said of Murkowski and Collins getting "assurances" for their concerns. No such concerns will be addressed. This bill is not going to get better in the House. If it has a single hiccup, Ryan will simply put the Senate bill on the floor as is and vote for it. At this point the only bet is that members of the Freedom Caucus ACTUALLY care about the 1.5 trillion dollar hole in the deficit this bill creates. I wouldn't hold my breath.

    There was a provision to expand the child tax credit introduced last night. All it would have required was raising the corporate tax rate from 20% to 20.94%. Voted down. Also, headlines like THIS are why this both-sides nonsense persists among the American public:

    No, the Senate did not do anything. The REPUBLICAN Senate did it. Not a single Democrat voted for the bill. I pointed out the same dynamic in the media earlier in the year when the Republicans, on a strict party-line vote, decided to hand our information over to the telcom companies. Most people only see headlines. This headline implies a pox on both houses. This was also a strict party-line vote, minus Bob Corker. If we have to swallow this, we're least going to have an honest debate about who is responsible for what happens. I know this much. If any conservative voter in this country EVER tells you about fiscal responsibility or spending EVER again, you should laugh in their face, call them a fool, and walk away. Because there is no intellectually honest debate to be had with that person. And if they aren't stopped in 2018, they are going to come to deal the death blow to Medicare (the first wound of which was struck last night) and Social Security. The end-game is a complete destruction of the New Deal.
    In fairness, time will tell what the result is. Assuming the Republicans pass something it will take some amount of years before we're able to gauge the ramifications. Any amount of speculation beforehand won't change actual results. In a strictly selfish position, since I paid my house off last year I expect that the tax reform will actually help me personally. I haven't been able to itemize for a few years due to my mortgage interest being low. My income is not $100k btw...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    Calling it now.

    Flake, who got on board with this with future DACA (DREAM act) deals. There will be no such deals, such legislation will die in committee or on the floors.

    Of course there won't be. The same can be said of Murkowski and Collins getting "assurances" for their concerns. No such concerns will be addressed. This bill is not going to get better in the House. If it has a single hiccup, Ryan will simply put the Senate bill on the floor as is and vote for it. At this point the only bet is that members of the Freedom Caucus ACTUALLY care about the 1.5 trillion dollar hole in the deficit this bill creates. I wouldn't hold my breath.

    There was a provision to expand the child tax credit introduced last night. All it would have required was raising the corporate tax rate from 20% to 20.94%. Voted down. Also, headlines like THIS are why this both-sides nonsense persists among the American public:

    No, the Senate did not do anything. The REPUBLICAN Senate did it. Not a single Democrat voted for the bill. I pointed out the same dynamic in the media earlier in the year when the Republicans, on a strict party-line vote, decided to hand our information over to the telcom companies. Most people only see headlines. This headline implies a pox on both houses. This was also a strict party-line vote, minus Bob Corker. If we have to swallow this, we're least going to have an honest debate about who is responsible for what happens. I know this much. If any conservative voter in this country EVER tells you about fiscal responsibility or spending EVER again, you should laugh in their face, call them a fool, and walk away. Because there is no intellectually honest debate to be had with that person. And if they aren't stopped in 2018, they are going to come to deal the death blow to Medicare (the first wound of which was struck last night) and Social Security. The end-game is a complete destruction of the New Deal.
    In fairness, time will tell what the result is. Assuming the Republicans pass something it will take some amount of years before we're able to gauge the ramifications. Any amount of speculation beforehand won't change actual results. In a strictly selfish position, since I paid my house off last year I expect that the tax reform will actually help me personally. I haven't been able to itemize for a few years due to my mortgage interest being low. My income is not $100k btw...
    The entire point is that the ramifications on the middle-class won't take place until 2027. By that time, no one will remember who to blame. The deductions phase out gradually, and every year another income group falls into the "pay more" category. I never said the Republicans were stupid, just utterly cynical. There is a petri dish for what this is going to do that has been happening on a state level for years. It's Kansas under Sam Brownback. People will be able to cope with the extra grand or so they have to pay by then (probably). The main issue is that they just strangled Obamacare in the crib and took a massive slice out of Medicare. Many people in the next few years will be in your situation initially. But how does that balance out when mom or dad's health care costs aren't being covered anymore?? Someone is going to pay for the $25 billion in Medicare that is going to get cut (despite the GOP's lies it won't happen). Those people are almost universally going to be middle-aged children of elderly parents. On average, that is nearly $600 a year more in medical costs for every person on Medicare (based on 25 billion in cuts and 44 million recipients).

    That being said, I don't begrudge you your money in the least. You aren't the problem.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    My mom and dad are both retired teachers. They have A+ health care that even my company can't touch. I think that's one of the reasons they don't care for Obamacare. They mask their self-interest with Fundamentalist Christianity. They think that the Church can take care of the poor all on their own...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    My mom and dad are both retired teachers. They have A+ health care that even my company can't touch. I think that's one of the reasons they don't care for Obamacare. They mask their self-interest with Fundamentalist Christianity. They think that the Church can take care of the poor all on their own...

    If churches were paying out of pocket medical expenses for everyone in this country who can't afford them or doesn't have insurance, there wouldn't be any churches, because they wouldn't have a penny left to their name. But as far as I'm aware, Jesus did most of his preaching in the wilderness and on the streets.

    I looked at my grandma who just passed away in June. She worked her whole life, never making much money. She bought a very modest, small house, but she was proud of it, she had paid it off, and it was her's. Social Security and Medicare are the reason she was able to live independently until almost the very end. She had a very strict monthly budget, but I know she deserved at least that in her life. That stability. $600 in extra medical expenses would have destroyed her budget. Now, it would have been taken care of by one of my aunts or uncles, but that's precisely the point. You can't just let your parents become destitute in their final years.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    edited December 2017
    I'd be more inclined to agree with you about universal healthcare if I thought the poor were intelligent enough to know when they actually need healthcare. A lot of the wasted money in our system is morons going to the doctor when it isn't necessary. They should reward doctors who tell people to go home when they have a cold instead of prescribing them with antibiotics and/or opiates. Doctors should be required to take a few classes in psychology imho...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 said:

    I'd be more inclined to agree with you about universal healthcare if I thought the poor were intelligent enough to know when they actually need healthcare. A lot of the wasted money in our system is morons going to the doctor when it isn't necessary. They should reward doctors who tell people to go home when they have a cold instead of prescribing them with antibiotics and/or opiates. Doctors should be required to take a few classes in psychology imho...

    You won't get any argument from me about the stupidity of the American public, rich and poor. I'm borderline misanthropic at this point.....
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    Balrog99 said:

    I'd be more inclined to agree with you about universal healthcare if I thought the poor were intelligent enough to know when they actually need healthcare. A lot of the wasted money in our system is morons going to the doctor when it isn't necessary. They should reward doctors who tell people to go home when they have a cold instead of prescribing them with antibiotics and/or opiates. Doctors should be required to take a few classes in psychology imho...

    You won't get any argument from me about the stupidity of the American public, rich and poor. I'm borderline misanthropic at this point.....
    I hope you don't include me in that assessment even though I voted for Trump. I really wish the Dems would've offered me a better alternative. I have a hard time arguing with my parents seeing that I contributed to the problem. It's an awkward time to be a conservative...
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited December 2017
    The problem with churches theoretically paying for peoples health care would not be the churches, it's the people on the other side. Once they start making profits, they have a monopoly why charge less? Health insurance is a rip off. A shake down.

    "Want to fix that heart problem bub it'll cost ya. Can't pay? OK fine, good luck with the bad ticker."

    They know you will come crawling back because you have no choice. And for profit hospitals can charge whatever they can get away with.

    I have health insurance I'm worried my kids won't someday. People go bankrupt all the time from medical bill shakedowns. One night in a hospital and they slap you with a bill for hundreds of thousands of dollars. If you look you'll see charges for 100 dollar as aspirins and much worse.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    Balrog99 said:

    I'd be more inclined to agree with you about universal healthcare if I thought the poor were intelligent enough to know when they actually need healthcare. A lot of the wasted money in our system is morons going to the doctor when it isn't necessary. They should reward doctors who tell people to go home when they have a cold instead of prescribing them with antibiotics and/or opiates. Doctors should be required to take a few classes in psychology imho...

    You won't get any argument from me about the stupidity of the American public, rich and poor. I'm borderline misanthropic at this point.....
    I hope you don't include me in that assessment even though I voted for Trump. I really wish the Dems would've offered me a better alternative. I have a hard time arguing with my parents seeing that I contributed to the problem. It's an awkward time to be a conservative...
    I gave away two free passes. One to you, and one to my uncle who, though he voted for Trump, has always been someone I loved alot, and, when 4 of my female cousins went to DC for the women's march, personally told them all how proud he was of them for going and standing up for what they believe in. Everyone else though.......then you have another aunt and uncle of mine, who are so far in Trump's cult that they bought Trump jerseys, and wore them around my grandmother despite knowing how much she despised him. I don't care how much I like a politician, you would have never seen me walking around town in a Barack Obama jersey. Because that's absurd.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    What just a goddamn minute here.....Trump basically just admitted to obstruction of justice. He says right here in this tweet he fired Flynn for lying to the FBI. So he knew he committed a crime. He then turned around and asked James Comey to end the investigation, knowing full well Flynn was guilty. Mueller is not blind. He and his team just saw this. To quote Seth Bullock from the final episode of "Deadwood", "Every bully I ever met never knew when to shut his f*****g mouth":
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    @smeagolheart

    I totally agree with you about health insurance being a scam. I'd actually up the ante by calling all insurance a scam. Why the Hell is car insurance so high? I have a 10 year old car and my collision premiums for a year would be more than my car is worth when you factor in the deductible. I don't even bother to include collision since it's not worth it. I'd be all for universal healthcare if by default car insurance would be just insurance for vehicles.

    I also had great home insurance through Hartford years ago. The few times I needed it they were great to work with and I felt I really got my money's worth. Naturally they ditched the entire Midwest after Hurricane Sandy so now I've got to use an insurance company I've never even heard of before...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    Balrog99 said:

    @smeagolheart

    I totally agree with you about health insurance being a scam. I'd actually up the ante by calling all insurance a scam. Why the Hell is car insurance so high? I have a 10 year old car and my collision premiums for a year would be more than my car is worth when you factor in the deductible. I don't even bother to include collision since it's not worth it. I'd be all for universal healthcare if by default car insurance would be just insurance for vehicles.

    I also had great home insurance through Hartford years ago. The few times I needed it they were great to work with and I felt I really got my money's worth. Naturally they ditched the entire Midwest after Hurricane Sandy so now I've got to use an insurance company I've never even heard of before...

    Michael Moore's health care movie "Sicko" wasn't even about uninsured people. It was about people who had coverage who paid their premiums who got screwed over anyway.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Balrog99 said:

    I'd be more inclined agree with you about universal healthcare if I thought the poor were intelligent enough to know when they actually need healthcare. A lot of the wasted money in our system is morons going to the doctor when it isn't necessary. They should reward doctors who tell people to go home when they have a cold instead of prescribing them with antibiotics and/or opiates. Doctors should be required to take a few classes in psychology imho...

    Umm, in Canada, where we do have universal healthcare, there are educational elements to where people should go or contact regarding their healthcare. Websites, commercials, posters the jiffs explaining the best course of action for your ailment.

    If someone does end up in emergency with a cold, they are placed on low priority, meaning they have to wait longer to see a doctor than someone with more severe symptoms.

    Oh, and the Flu shot is free and can usually be had at any mall pharmacy. So if you do get sick... well that's on you.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    deltago said:

    Balrog99 said:

    I'd be more inclined agree with you about universal healthcare if I thought the poor were intelligent enough to know when they actually need healthcare. A lot of the wasted money in our system is morons going to the doctor when it isn't necessary. They should reward doctors who tell people to go home when they have a cold instead of prescribing them with antibiotics and/or opiates. Doctors should be required to take a few classes in psychology imho...

    Umm, in Canada, where we do have universal healthcare, there are educational elements to where people should go or contact regarding their healthcare. Websites, commercials, posters the jiffs explaining the best course of action for your ailment.

    If someone does end up in emergency with a cold, they are placed on low priority, meaning they have to wait longer to see a doctor than someone with more severe symptoms.

    Oh, and the Flu shot is free and can usually be had at any mall pharmacy. So if you do get sick... well that's on you.
    I don't think I'm wrong in saying that the vast majority of Canadians and Europeans think our healthcare system in the United States is utter insanity.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    deltago said:

    Balrog99 said:

    I'd be more inclined agree with you about universal healthcare if I thought the poor were intelligent enough to know when they actually need healthcare. A lot of the wasted money in our system is morons going to the doctor when it isn't necessary. They should reward doctors who tell people to go home when they have a cold instead of prescribing them with antibiotics and/or opiates. Doctors should be required to take a few classes in psychology imho...

    Umm, in Canada, where we do have universal healthcare, there are educational elements to where people should go or contact regarding their healthcare. Websites, commercials, posters the jiffs explaining the best course of action for your ailment.

    If someone does end up in emergency with a cold, they are placed on low priority, meaning they have to wait longer to see a doctor than someone with more severe symptoms.

    Oh, and the Flu shot is free and can usually be had at any mall pharmacy. So if you do get sick... well that's on you.
    Well the flu vaccine isn't always effective so its not ALWAYS on you! The flu vaccine is great in that you can never prove whether or not it was effective. If you get the flu it's because 'We got it wrong' but if you don't there's no way of knowing whether you wouldn't have gotten it regardless of the vaccine. Either way the healthcare system makes their money...
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    deltago said:

    Balrog99 said:

    I'd be more inclined agree with you about universal healthcare if I thought the poor were intelligent enough to know when they actually need healthcare. A lot of the wasted money in our system is morons going to the doctor when it isn't necessary. They should reward doctors who tell people to go home when they have a cold instead of prescribing them with antibiotics and/or opiates. Doctors should be required to take a few classes in psychology imho...

    Umm, in Canada, where we do have universal healthcare, there are educational elements to where people should go or contact regarding their healthcare. Websites, commercials, posters the jiffs explaining the best course of action for your ailment.

    If someone does end up in emergency with a cold, they are placed on low priority, meaning they have to wait longer to see a doctor than someone with more severe symptoms.

    Oh, and the Flu shot is free and can usually be had at any mall pharmacy. So if you do get sick... well that's on you.
    It's the same thing in the US, if you go to an emergency room with a cold you are lower priority and will wait probably hours for treatment but here at the end you'd walk out with a bill for more than a thousand dollars.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    I have to confess: I am a Finn, moving back to Finland in the beginning of the year after a long while away.

    Just four days away is the First Century of our Independence, or "Finland 100".

    I got overstuffed about the commercialized, collective hype - like those poor geese force fed for foie gras - after about two weeks back in.

    And then former president Koivisto died and the pomp and circumstance was just ... what that man was not. Pompous. Elitist. State circumstantial. I bet he had wanted to hold on just another year, were it his choice.

    Let it be said: I consider myself very happily a Finn. I would try to do my best if there was a war to threaten us.


    But heck: why is love of country so often perceived as collective worship oriented, conventional - and hey, icky? My Finnish hero is Aleksis Kivi / Stenvall. He died of destitution, leaving a literary legacy of literally unprecedented value.


    I try to hold on... For the next few days. Most patriotically. :smiley:
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    chimaera said:

    Balrog99 said:



    Well the flu vaccine isn't always effective so its not ALWAYS on you! The flu vaccine is great in that you can never prove whether or not it was effective. If you get the flu it's because 'We got it wrong' but if you don't there's no way of knowing whether you wouldn't have gotten it regardless of the vaccine. Either way the healthcare system makes their money...

    It's quite ironic that you call on poor people not having the relevant medical knowledge, when you post this...
    I get vaccinated. I'm just saying there's no way if knowing whether or not it does anything. It's not like polio, mumps, measles or any of the other viruses we get vaccinated for. There are just too many flu strains for a vaccine to be 100% effective. I wonder why they don't make a vaccine for every strain? Is it because of cost?

    Anybody know why the flu can't be wiped out by vaccines similar to what happened to smallpox? I'm curious...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371
    TStael said:

    I have to confess: I am a Finn, moving back to Finland in the beginning of the year after a long while away.

    Just four days away is the First Century of our Independence, or "Finland 100".

    I got overstuffed about the commercialized, collective hype - like those poor geese force fed for foie gras - after about two weeks back in.

    And then former president Koivisto died and the pomp and circumstance was just ... what that man was not. Pompous. Elitist. State circumstantial. I bet he had wanted to hold on just another year, were it his choice.

    Let it be said: I consider myself very happily a Finn. I would try to do my best if there was a war to threaten us.


    But heck: why is love of country so often perceived as collective worship oriented, conventional - and hey, icky? My Finnish hero is Aleksis Kivi / Stenvall. He died of destitution, leaving a literary legacy of literally unprecedented value.


    I try to hold on... For the next few days. Most patriotically. :smiley:

    Mannerheim isn't your hero? I've recently read a book about the Winter War and it was quite fascinating. From what I gathered the Finns needed somebody like him to hold it together against the Soviets but he wasn't very well liked. How is he viewed from a historical perspective over there?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 said:

    chimaera said:

    Balrog99 said:



    Well the flu vaccine isn't always effective so its not ALWAYS on you! The flu vaccine is great in that you can never prove whether or not it was effective. If you get the flu it's because 'We got it wrong' but if you don't there's no way of knowing whether you wouldn't have gotten it regardless of the vaccine. Either way the healthcare system makes their money...

    It's quite ironic that you call on poor people not having the relevant medical knowledge, when you post this...
    I get vaccinated. I'm just saying there's no way if knowing whether or not it does anything. It's not like polio, mumps, measles or any of the other viruses we get vaccinated for. There are just too many flu strains for a vaccine to be 100% effective. I wonder why they don't make a vaccine for every strain? Is it because of cost?

    Anybody know why the flu can't be wiped out by vaccines similar to what happened to smallpox? I'm curious...
    My guess is it's simply too versatile as a virus. It has a high mutation rate, so any given vaccine is only good for a couple of years. Beyond that, people don't necessarily take the flu that seriously, despite the fact that it kills almost 400,000 people a year. Everyone has had the flu multiple times and survived, and, indeed, probably never thought they were in danger. In my experience, people only start to take something this common very seriously when it's in the elderly or young children, or when it becomes pneumonia. Incidentally, having the flu is the EXACT type of ailment someone without health insurance won't see the Dr. about since we have so many over thr counter remedies.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited December 2017
    I've heard that as well, the flu virus, unlike most viruses (viri?) is more than other viruses too diverse there's at any one time hundreds of thousands of strains. The flu shot is supposed to protect against the most common predicted versions in your area. It can be wrong, but it can be right and save lives (especially of older people). Other things like smallpox there's not so many strains as it is not so easy for it to mutate.
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Balrog99 said:

    TStael said:

    I have to confess: I am a Finn, moving back to Finland in the beginning of the year after a long while away.

    Just four days away is the First Century of our Independence, or "Finland 100".

    Mannerheim isn't your hero? I've recently read a book about the Winter War and it was quite fascinating. From what I gathered the Finns needed somebody like him to hold it together against the Soviets but he wasn't very well liked. How is he viewed from a historical perspective over there?
    No, I tend to view WW2 by my two grandfathers whom fought in that War - the paternal of which committed suicide after the war btw. Because I frankly do not think war is meant for humane people, yet he did his bit. He was supposed to kill people, for Finland.

    I consider war from that perspective, not from the privileged Mannerheim one, where death was only in the bigger picture.

    Obviously not falling under Soviet rule was very pivotal, and I very glad of it. In a free country like Finland, Mannnerheim has to accept that a soldier liable to die gets greater sympathy. I tend to think history is very opportunistic when it comes to "great men."
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited December 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    This is Orrin Hatch talking about CHIP, the Children's Health Insurance Program, which Republicans let expire and have left states hanging in the wind in regards to funding:

    Yeah, those goddamn free-loading children who won't get out of their crib and buy their own healthcare. He's sick of 5-year old kids who won't pull themselves up by their bootstraps and call Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Leave these monsters in charge much longer, and they'll be repealing child labor laws.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
This discussion has been closed.