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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    edited November 2017
    bleusteel said:

    BillyYank said:


    I call bullshit. This isn't happening. Anywhere. Unemployment does not even remotely work this way.
    I call bullshit on the idea that Trump actually knows anyone that works for a living.
    I’ll give Trump the benefit of the doubt. One person is probably a hedge fund manager and on the boards of a couple Fortune 50 companies. The other, better off non-working person is a former CEO that got a huge golden parachute after tanking their own company.
    I'm sure Trump knows people who work. Hedge funding and CEOing are hard jobs. But do they work "for a living", or is their lifestyle already assured and they're just working because they want to?
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 523
    BillyYank said:

    bleusteel said:

    BillyYank said:


    I call bullshit. This isn't happening. Anywhere. Unemployment does not even remotely work this way.
    I call bullshit on the idea that Trump actually knows anyone that works for a living.
    I’ll give Trump the benefit of the doubt. One person is probably a hedge fund manager and on the boards of a couple Fortune 50 companies. The other, better off non-working person is a former CEO that got a huge golden parachute after tanking their own company.
    I'm sure Trump knows people who work. Hedge funding and CEOing are hard jobs. But do they work "for a living", or is their lifestyle already assured and they're just working because they want to?
    I guess we’d need to ask ourselves if living without another yacht, penthouse, private island, etc can really be called living?

    The Trump quote was just funny because there aren’t details around what is causing these people’s situations. A non-working person could be on unemployment or disability or could be very comfortable living off capital gains from investments. Hell, maybe they’re retired and getting a pension. I guess it’s supposed to be one of those dog whistle things to get people mad at “welfare queens.”

    I didn’t watch the speech because I can’t stand listening to him for more than a few seconds at a time.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    I just heard an estimate that some 200,000 Puerto Ricans may be living in Florida by 2020. If that is even remotely accurate, Trump can say goodbye to the Sunshine State.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited November 2017
    Just saw Donald Trump on TV (it was from a couple days ago, but I hadn't heard this one yet) say that average wages are going to go up $4000/year because of the GOP tax bill. Write that one down folks. If that happens, I will eat my kitchen sink, film a video of it, and post it on this site. For this to take place, nearly everyone in America is going to have to get a $3/hr raise. If you factor in inflation, it would have to be even more.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    Just saw Donald Trump on TV (it was from a couple days ago, but I hadn't heard this one yet) say that average wages are going to go up $4000/year because of the GOP tax bill. Write that one down folks. If that happens, I will eat my kitchen sink, film a video of it, and post it on this site. For this to take place, nearly everyone in America is going to have to get $3/hr raise.

    He's lying his butt off. This big beautiful tax cut will solve North Korea, end hunger, and everyone everywhere gets a million dollar check. He even claims that he won't personally benefit from the tax cuts. Straight up lying. And of course he won't reveal his tax returns.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    @Mathsorcerer you are not going to believe this. The Trump Administration is considering turning over spying and rendition duties to a private company, which is bad enough. But guess what?? The company is located in......Whitefish, Montana:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/aramroston/trump-administration-mulls-private-rendition?utm_term=.xhRN2Vg5pd#.jhnwzL9XBn

    This time, the website is moderately more professional, yet hasn't been updated since 2015:

    http://www.amyntorgroup.net/

    According to Google Maps, this international house of espionage is located right behind a realty office, and across the street from a Pilates studio and a nail salon. Neither US location has so much as a phone number listed on the website. A Google search for the Fairfax, VA location listed on the site doesn't turn up anything, nor does Google Maps know where it is, because it turns up in the middle of the road. The website itself is strikingly similar in design to the last one, if a bit more fleshed out (but not by much).

    Sounds mysterious. They must be really good at spying!
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 said:

    @Mathsorcerer you are not going to believe this. The Trump Administration is considering turning over spying and rendition duties to a private company, which is bad enough. But guess what?? The company is located in......Whitefish, Montana:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/aramroston/trump-administration-mulls-private-rendition?utm_term=.xhRN2Vg5pd#.jhnwzL9XBn

    This time, the website is moderately more professional, yet hasn't been updated since 2015:

    http://www.amyntorgroup.net/

    According to Google Maps, this international house of espionage is located right behind a realty office, and across the street from a Pilates studio and a nail salon. Neither US location has so much as a phone number listed on the website. A Google search for the Fairfax, VA location listed on the site doesn't turn up anything, nor does Google Maps know where it is, because it turns up in the middle of the road. The website itself is strikingly similar in design to the last one, if a bit more fleshed out (but not by much).

    Sounds mysterious. They must be really good at spying!
    All joking aside, just what are the chances a rural town of 6500 people would have not only an electric company capable of restoring power to all of Puerto Rico, but ALSO a private spy agency just waiting to be hired by the Administration?? A million to one?? A billion?? Out of all the towns in the United States, it just HAPPENS to be the one that is home not only to Secretary of the Interior Ryan Zinke, but is ALSO the home of our favorite white nationalist/Nazi Richard Spencer??
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    You know, from time to time I like to make up weird crap or devise seemingly-insane conspiacy theories, but even *I* can't make up shit this weird! I know what I am doing this weekend--scouring the web for Amyntor, making a list of names, and then scouring the Interwebz for those names.

    Why does Amyntor need a cosmetic surgeon, Keith Rose of Corpus Christi, as a "medical director"? Unless...they need him to clean up after a "rendition". They keep using the word "rendition" but all I see when I see that word is "kidnap and torture".

    The *only* reason to move intelligence operations to a private corporate entity which is only loosely overseen by some government agency is so they can get away with stuff without raising a stink in Washington. That which they call "private military contractor" or "private intelligence operative" I call "mercenary". Don't misunderstand me--I once had the bright idea of converting the entire military into a mercenary force, thinking that if country A needed our assistance they could pay us up front, in cash, and then we would do the job. This, however, is different--this is an attempt to keep ops in the dark from as much oversight as possible.

    It is *not* a coincidence that Amyntor is located in Whitefish (especially since Whitefish lost its Puerto Rico contract--too bad, so sad, cry me a river). According to the article another name seemingly connected to Amyntor is Erik Prince, brother of Betsy DeVos (yes, the Education Secretary) and founde of Blackwater (a private military contractor which came under scrutiny during the Bush Administration).

    Most alarming is the fact that the National Security Advisor, Army Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, was not aware of the proposals being floated. If he doesn't know, then why doesn't he know? Shouldn't this be the sort of thing which goes across his desk for approval *first*?

    Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention @jjstraka34. erm...if none of you ever hear from me again you will know why. (loljk)
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    You know, from time to time I like to make up weird crap or devise seemingly-insane conspiacy theories, but even *I* can't make up shit this weird! I know what I am doing this weekend--scouring the web for Amyntor, making a list of names, and then scouring the Interwebz for those names.

    Why does Amyntor need a cosmetic surgeon, Keith Rose of Corpus Christi, as a "medical director"? Unless...they need him to clean up after a "rendition". They keep using the word "rendition" but all I see when I see that word is "kidnap and torture".

    The *only* reason to move intelligence operations to a private corporate entity which is only loosely overseen by some government agency is so they can get away with stuff without raising a stink in Washington. That which they call "private military contractor" or "private intelligence operative" I call "mercenary". Don't misunderstand me--I once had the bright idea of converting the entire military into a mercenary force, thinking that if country A needed our assistance they could pay us up front, in cash, and then we would do the job. This, however, is different--this is an attempt to keep ops in the dark from as much oversight as possible.

    It is *not* a coincidence that Amyntor is located in Whitefish (especially since Whitefish lost its Puerto Rico contract--too bad, so sad, cry me a river). According to the article another name seemingly connected to Amyntor is Erik Prince, brother of Betsy DeVos (yes, the Education Secretary) and founde of Blackwater (a private military contractor which came under scrutiny during the Bush Administration).

    Most alarming is the fact that the National Security Advisor, Army Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, was not aware of the proposals being floated. If he doesn't know, then why doesn't he know? Shouldn't this be the sort of thing which goes across his desk for approval *first*?

    Thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention @jjstraka34. erm...if none of you ever hear from me again you will know why. (loljk)

    Not enough has been made of Betsy DeVo's connection to her brother Erik Prince. If anyone has read the book by Jeremy Scahill on Blackwater, you will come away knowing that Prince was one of THE biggest villains of the Iraq War, as his private mercenary army was going around the country butchering citizens of Iraq. I have personally spoken to my cousin who was serving in Iraq at the time about how ridiculous and off the reservation the mercenary units were.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    @Mathsorcerer you are not going to believe this. The Trump Administration is considering turning over spying and rendition duties to a private company, which is bad enough. But guess what?? The company is located in......Whitefish, Montana:

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/aramroston/trump-administration-mulls-private-rendition?utm_term=.xhRN2Vg5pd#.jhnwzL9XBn

    This time, the website is moderately more professional, yet hasn't been updated since 2015:

    http://www.amyntorgroup.net/

    According to Google Maps, this international house of espionage is located right behind a realty office, and across the street from a Pilates studio and a nail salon. Neither US location has so much as a phone number listed on the website. A Google search for the Fairfax, VA location listed on the site doesn't turn up anything, nor does Google Maps know where it is, because it turns up in the middle of the road. The website itself is strikingly similar in design to the last one, if a bit more fleshed out (but not by much).

    Is it above a Chinese Dry Cleaner?
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    The article briefly mentions/implies two possible motives for the idea: first, whoever came up with the idea may just be trying to funnel tax dollars into a friend's (or their own) pocketbook; second, the Trump administration doesn't trust the CIA and other intelligence agencies, and wants to work with a group that's under their direct control.

    Both motives make perfect sense. The first motive is especially fitting because we're already seen an attempt to divert public money to a friend of the administration based in Whitefish. The second is also plausible: (1) Trump does not trust brainy folks in general, (2) Trump's friends, if not the man himself, believe that unknown forces in the government are conspiring against him, and (3) to be realistic, the CIA wouldn't trust Trump, either, for various reasons. I can see why Trump would think the CIA might not follow his orders or serve his best interests.

    Even if these motives weren't illegal and paranoid, respectively, I cannot see any reasonable justification for entrusting classified information and national security operations to a profit-based corporation with no loyalty to the United States beyond their paycheck. Certainly not when we already have a diverse array of intelligence organizations staffed with highly trained and rigorously vetted people.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    The tax bill vote was supposed to be tonight, and I was 95% convinced it would pass. They are re-writing it again tonight. I can't believe they didn't have the votes for this thing based on all the reporting. The Senate parliamentarian simply rejected the idea of the triggers and wouldn't let it proceed. There is no way they aren't going to pass this, but, once again, we are going to have the entire bill re-written literally in the dark of night, and there isn't going to be any chance for the public to have a goddamn clue what is in the bill come the morning. This is a bill that could (scratch that, WILL) change fundamental aspects of American life, and no one has any idea what is going on.

    And look, I know some people respect John McCain, and that he's dying of brain cancer, but he has been harping about getting back to "regular order" for the past 3 or 4 months. He is going to vote for whatever comes out tomorrow. And if this constitutes regular order, then we might as well just throw in the towel. The fact is, if Murkowski, Collins, and McCain vote for this, their health care votes amount to jack-shit. Because the Republicans turned this tax bill into a health-care vote. 26 million or 13 million, billions of dollars in Medicare cuts, it's all just bad. But, I (and others) have been saying it all year. Every single other wedge issue the Republicans have is to serve the end they are attempting to achieve with this bill, which is a near total funnel of wealth to the richest 1% of this country at the expense of nearly everyone else. It's why the party exists. If they can't do this, they truly have no purpose. This is a vote for oligarchy. Societies collapse because of the kind of income inequality this bill will push us to. A very small group of people already control nearly all the wealth in this country. It's clear they won't stop until they have ALL of it. No one is suggesting we should strip millionaires and billionaires of their fortunes and distribute it in the streets. But you push things much further, and that might be exactly what people suggest.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    In Trump's defense, I understand his suspicion about the intelligence agencies--the FBI just set up a task force to directly counter the Trump reelection campaign.

    See, that's how you take partisan cheap shots!
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    In case anyone didn't bother clicking on the link, the task force is there to counter Russian interference.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    In case anyone didn't bother clicking on the link, the task force is there to counter Russian interference.

    Someone should. Anyone who spends any time on Twitter knows that there are Russian bots all over the place. Literally anytime a negative story hits about Trump (which is about every 3 to 4 hours) they simply kick into gear. Twitter though, is onto them. The problem, stemming from the last election, is what they were able to do on Facebook.

    As has been mentioned before, even if no votes were changed, Russian hackers were absolutely able to access voter data. I simply do not trust electronic voting machines going forward. Is it a coincidence that Democrats won massive victories in Virginia in the first election after they went back to paper ballots?? One seriously has to wonder.......
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438

    In case anyone didn't bother clicking on the link, the task force is there to counter Russian interference.

    Oh, you're no fun.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited December 2017
    So I really don't know much about this but an undocumented immigrant was being charged with murder of a white woman, which always generates a big deal of concern for some reason more than if a person of color kills another person of color. I think the big news of it is an extension of missing white girl syndrome.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome

    Trump used this case, an undocumented person who had been deported multiple times accused of murdering a woman in a so called sanctuary city, to whip up his base with anti-immigration fervor. The guy was found not guilty.

    So of course Trump, who knows more than the law and people who tried the case, is calling the decision "disgraceful".

    This is reminiscent of how he took out a page in the newspaper back in the day calling for the worst death penalty for the Central Park 5, a group of black men accused of murder who were much later cleared of the charges by forensic evidence. Even after that Trump has said things like they were guilty anyway or something refusing to acknowledge their exoneration.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited December 2017
    Anyway, this is more of the same. Trump really wants people to feel like he does that black people (central Park 5) and brown people (the undocumented immigrant who was just found not guilty) are guilty. He wants people to hate Muslims too like he does as evidenced by his sharing questionable and faked videos yesterday from the British equivalent of the KKK.

    Even when confronted with the facts he does not care because the facts don't matter to him. To him, his preconceptions are fact. This man is horribly racist, whether he is aware of it or not he really is.

    Not sure that is a really big revelation if you've been paying attention, you probably already noticed but anyway it is confirmed again.
  • Mantis37Mantis37 Member Posts: 1,176

    In case anyone didn't bother clicking on the link, the task force is there to counter Russian interference.

    Someone should. Anyone who spends any time on Twitter knows that there are Russian bots all over the place. Literally anytime a negative story hits about Trump (which is about every 3 to 4 hours) they simply kick into gear. Twitter though, is onto them. The problem, stemming from the last election, is what they were able to do on Facebook.

    As has been mentioned before, even if no votes were changed, Russian hackers were absolutely able to access voter data. I simply do not trust electronic voting machines going forward. Is it a coincidence that Democrats won massive victories in Virginia in the first election after they went back to paper ballots?? One seriously has to wonder.......
    I would be a little bit cautious about the Russian bots narrative. A whole variety of organisations and nation states have begun to make use of 'astroturfing' via bots/ semi automated accounts etc. to smother opposing views or to create doubt. For example Vote Leave in the UK have admitted to doing so. While Russia undoubtedly have their bots, many of them may have their source elsewhere, or even close to home.

    The tech giants all need to take some responsibility, this podcast discusses their use of the Trump/ Russia narrative to deflect attention:

    https://www.mikehind.co.uk/podcast/2017/11/27/look-over-there-how-the-social-media-giants-got-a-free-pass-on-twitter-during-the-techhearings
  • BillyYankBillyYank Member Posts: 2,768
    I loved the response of the defense attorney: "...let me just remind them that they are themselves under investigation by a special prosecutor in Washington DC, and they may themselves, soon avail themselves of the presumptions of innocence and the beyond a reasonable doubt standard."
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    Mueller has now charged Flynn with making knowingly fraudulent statements to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian Ambassador. Two main cogs of Trump's campaign have now been indicted. But this charge also surely means that Flynn has struck a deal, likely to save his son. Get ready for Trump to fly off the handle. With everything they likely had on Flynn, to get it reduced to this, he has to be singing like a canary:
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    Mueller has now charged Flynn with making knowingly fraudulent statements to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian Ambassador. Two main cogs of Trump's campaign have now been indicted. But this charge also surely means that Flynn has struck a deal, likely to save his son. Get ready for Trump to fly off the handle.

    I expect it will go like this

    "Mike Flynn? Never heard of him. He was barely involved in the campaign. He quit before I even became president."

    "sir, he was your national security advisor?"

    "I have many people working for me, the best people. Flynn was brought in temporarily until we could get McMaster confirmed. The lying Democrats were holding up his nomination! It's Hillary and Obamas fault. They are holding up big beautiful tax cuts. "
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017

    Mueller has now charged Flynn with making knowingly fraudulent statements to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian Ambassador. Two main cogs of Trump's campaign have now been indicted. But this charge also surely means that Flynn has struck a deal, likely to save his son. Get ready for Trump to fly off the handle.

    I expect it will go like this

    "Mike Flynn? Never heard of him. He was barely involved in the campaign. He quit before I even became president."

    "sir, he was your national security advisor?"

    "I have many people working for me, the best people. Flynn was brought in temporarily until we could get McMaster confirmed. The lying Democrats were holding up his nomination! It's Hillary and Obamas fault. They are holding up big beautiful tax cuts. "
    Mike Flynn was with Trump nearly 24/7 during the campaign. Anyone who traveled in the press pool can attest to this. I'll also add he is charged with making the false statement on January 24th. While he was still the acting National Security Adviser. When he was, ostensibly, giving Trump the Presidential Daily Intelligence Briefing.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited December 2017

    Mueller has now charged Flynn with making knowingly fraudulent statements to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian Ambassador. Two main cogs of Trump's campaign have now been indicted. But this charge also surely means that Flynn has struck a deal, likely to save his son. Get ready for Trump to fly off the handle.

    I expect it will go like this

    "Mike Flynn? Never heard of him. He was barely involved in the campaign. He quit before I even became president."

    "sir, he was your national security advisor?"

    "I have many people working for me, the best people. Flynn was brought in temporarily until we could get McMaster confirmed. The lying Democrats were holding up his nomination! It's Hillary and Obamas fault. They are holding up big beautiful tax cuts. "
    Mike Flynn was with Trump nearly 24/7 during the campaign. Anyone who traveled in the press pool can attest to this. I'll also add he is charged with making the false statement on January 24th. While he was still the acting National Security Adviser. When he was, ostensibly, giving Trump the Presidential Daily Intelligence Briefing.
    The lying truth doesn't matter. Trump will tell us the true truth. Video evidence and everyone saw them together? That's the fake truth!

    That will probably be the argument.
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,297
    According to first reports Flynn will testify that Trump told him to contact the Russians.
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