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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Meanwhile in (Ontario) Canada:

    The leader of the PC party of Ontario was forced to step down after allegations of sexual misconduct was reported on by a television station.

    With an election coming up, it was the best course of action, as it would be, and expect the Liberal government to attempt to make it, a distraction against all the other crap the Liberals have done in the last few years.

    Hopefully the party can quickly appoint a new, scandal free leader to boot the most corrupt party in North America.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited January 2018

    The whole conspiracy theory is based on a single text?

    And that was the text?

    Who calls their secret society "the secret society?"

    The article says the text wasn't even given in context; the texts that preceded it and followed it weren't included for some reason.

    The text doesn't even say what the "secret society" was about. I can't even tell what it's supposed to be saying about "calendars," or what Page found "depressing."

    It doesn't matter. That stupid text is enough for Republican lawmakers to put it out there that "OMG THERE'S A SEKRIT SOCIETY OUT TO GET TRUMP! DEEP STATE! DEEEEEP STAAAATE!! FBI AGENTS PROVED IT!"

    And then Fox News, Breitbart, Grandma's facebook feed, and other conservative "news" outlets take the story and run with how a secret society is out to get Trump and that is totally a fact. So the answer, to these people living on another planet, is to shoot up CNN and fire Mueller.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Hey that's awesome!
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    The missing texts between Strzok and Page as well as thousands of other FBI phones have now been recovered. It was in fact a technical glitch; they were not deleted.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    deltago said:
    Why are we even discussing or having negotiations about federal funds being used for the wall?? There is more tape of Trump and his supporters saying Mexico is going to pay for it than the Patriots are going to watch of the Eagles the next two weeks.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited January 2018
    Seeing a lot of "amnesty Don" name calling on Fox lol. Can't imagine the alt right is happy with Trumps plan. There were only 800k on DACA which required a clean criminal record and a high school or equivalent or military service and brought in to the US as a child.

    Amnesty Don is offering a path to citizenship for 1.8 million. Democrats should be out there taking credit for their flimsy shutdown totally bringing Don to his knees.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @jjstraka34 "They are actually the most legitimate libertarians out there."

    Not quite. The entire philosophy of Satanism is basically "Do as you will."

    Libertarians are "Do as you will, so long as you don't stop others from able to do as they will."
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Apparently Donald Trump wanted to fire Mueller in June 2017, but backed down when his counsel threatened to resign.

    This seems to be Trump's standard response to the concept of scrutiny.
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736


    You can't claim religious freedom without allowing all religions to be free including one's you don't want. Good guy Satanists, looking out for your rights lol?

    That's also precisely the problem I have when people claim to be liberal and fighting for freedom, but in reality trying to silence, ban and censor any voice they disagree with, under the "it's offensive to X" pretense. That's not what liberty is at all.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited January 2018

    Apparently Donald Trump wanted to fire Mueller in June 2017, but backed down when his counsel threatened to resign.

    This seems to be Trump's standard response to the concept of scrutiny.

    I think it's a slightly bigger problem than his response to scrutiny. He was basically one White House Counsel resignation away from declaring himself above the law. From basically attempting to DESTROY the rule of law in the same way Nixon did. It doesn't just say he wanted to fire Mueller. It said he ORDERED it and had to be stopped by people in the White House. This is, again, just another layer of obstruction. Do people think Mueller doesn't know all of this??

    He fired Comey, then admitted to doing it to stop the Russia investigation in a televised interview. He said he never would have picked Jeff Sessions if he had known he would recuse himself from the Russia probe. He apparently ordered Mueller fired. He has been trying to get Andrew McCabe fired. Am I the crazy one for thinking all of this information alone is impeachable?? How can it not be?? Is the new standard that we just let President's fire and attempt to fire everyone who is investigating them?? People constantly dismiss this by basically saying "well, that's just how Trump reacts to things". Even people I normally consider very rational. The Overton Window has been moved so far that most people can't seem to recognize blatant criminal behavior, or that they don't want to admit it's taking place because that reality is too disturbing.

    Let's have a brain-storming session about what would have happened to Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, or Barack Obama had this info come out. Just the info I discussed in this post. Firing an FBI director, admitting to doing so to stop a investigation into them and their campaign, and then a news report that they gave the order to fire the special counsel who was hired to look into the first firing. Let's see a show of hands as to who actually thinks those 3 people wouldn't have been impeached at the speed of sound. Everyone knows they would have been. Yet everyone keeps whistling past the graveyard while Trump just merrily walks along doing things no previous President (and sure as hell no Democratic President) could POSSIBLY get away with.
    Post edited by jjstraka34 on
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    Seeing a lot of "amnesty Don" name calling on Fox lol. Can't imagine the alt right is happy with Trumps plan. There were only 800k on DACA which required a clean criminal record and a high school or equivalent or military service and brought in to the US as a child.

    Amnesty Don is offering a path to citizenship for 1.8 million. Democrats should be out there taking credit for their flimsy shutdown totally bringing Don to his knees.

    I seeing it playing out two ways.

    Dems pass the bill to support the wall, or ICE is going to deport all the dreamers by April 1. Then they run campaigns about how Dems don't keep theor promises as they had a chance to prevent this from happening.

    Or

    Using the DACA model, get all of these illigals to register, then in one years time, say "just kidding!" Pass legislation that reverses the citizenship promise and start deporting them all.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Ardanis said:


    You can't claim religious freedom without allowing all religions to be free including one's you don't want. Good guy Satanists, looking out for your rights lol?

    That's also precisely the problem I have when people claim to be liberal and fighting for freedom, but in reality trying to silence, ban and censor any voice they disagree with, under the "it's offensive to X" pretense. That's not what liberty is at all.
    Strange, I see the problem as the right seeking to silence any voice that is not ideologically from a white Christian conservative.

    Believe in the right to get abortion or believe marriage is not necessarily between one man and one woman? Their response is "you are trampling my religious freedom!"

    Not a racist white nationalist? "You are attacking my religious freedom!"

    Muslim? Jewish? Believe in a different magic man in the sky (or no magic man) ? "You are insulting my religious freedom!"

    The strategy is to control your beliefs and actions by acting all offended. These guys are the real snowflakes looking to be offended then crying about how you are the one attacking religious freedom.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    I suspect if Bill Clinton had been able to successfully pay off Monica and/or fire Ken Starr he would have do so without a moment's hesitation.

    *************

    This is why California is a failure--if this bill passes, being offered a plastic straw in a restaurant without specifically asking for one could cause your server to face up to 6 months in jail and/or a maximum $1,000 fine for violating the California Retail Food Code. Don't they have more important issues facing them than this? I use a plastic straw...but I clean it with hot water and a thin pipe cleaner every day; I get rid of it only when it splits open, which usually takes about a week. Why don't they switch to paper straws? What if I sneak my own straw into a restaurant, plant it in my drink while my server isn't looking, then report them for violating the Food Code? How can they prove they *didn't* give me a straw without me asking for one?
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455

    I suspect if Bill Clinton had been able to successfully pay off Monica and/or fire Ken Starr he would have do so without a moment's hesitation.

    *************

    This is why California is a failure--if this bill passes, being offered a plastic straw in a restaurant without specifically asking for one could cause your server to face up to 6 months in jail and/or a maximum $1,000 fine for violating the California Retail Food Code. Don't they have more important issues facing them than this? I use a plastic straw...but I clean it with hot water and a thin pipe cleaner every day; I get rid of it only when it splits open, which usually takes about a week. Why don't they switch to paper straws? What if I sneak my own straw into a restaurant, plant it in my drink while my server isn't looking, then report them for violating the Food Code? How can they prove they *didn't* give me a straw without me asking for one?

    @Mathsorcerer That's not how the justice system works in developed countries.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    I suspect if Bill Clinton had been able to successfully pay off Monica and/or fire Ken Starr he would have do so without a moment's hesitation.

    *************

    This is why California is a failure--if this bill passes, being offered a plastic straw in a restaurant without specifically asking for one could cause your server to face up to 6 months in jail and/or a maximum $1,000 fine for violating the California Retail Food Code. Don't they have more important issues facing them than this? I use a plastic straw...but I clean it with hot water and a thin pipe cleaner every day; I get rid of it only when it splits open, which usually takes about a week. Why don't they switch to paper straws? What if I sneak my own straw into a restaurant, plant it in my drink while my server isn't looking, then report them for violating the Food Code? How can they prove they *didn't* give me a straw without me asking for one?

    I'm not a liberal but I seldom use straws. In my mind I think of them as wasteful. Ditto for paper plates, plastic utensils, etc...

    I certainly wouldn't fine people for using them or accidentally supplying them though!
  • ArdanisArdanis Member Posts: 1,736


    The strategy is to control your beliefs and actions by acting all offended. These guys are the real snowflakes looking to be offended then crying about how you are the one attacking religious freedom.

    Oh, I didn't mean to absolve them of their sins (pun :D ), or even referring to religion in general. Your comment just reminded me of the recent "best monkey in the jungle" hoodie incident.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited January 2018

    I suspect if Bill Clinton had been able to successfully pay off Monica and/or fire Ken Starr he would have do so without a moment's hesitation.

    *************

    This is why California is a failure--if this bill passes, being offered a plastic straw in a restaurant without specifically asking for one could cause your server to face up to 6 months in jail and/or a maximum $1,000 fine for violating the California Retail Food Code. Don't they have more important issues facing them than this? I use a plastic straw...but I clean it with hot water and a thin pipe cleaner every day; I get rid of it only when it splits open, which usually takes about a week. Why don't they switch to paper straws? What if I sneak my own straw into a restaurant, plant it in my drink while my server isn't looking, then report them for violating the Food Code? How can they prove they *didn't* give me a straw without me asking for one?

    California is succeeding doing great even even and has such ridiculous looking laws. Why do this one about plastic straws? Because there's millions of pounds of plastic floating around the oceans killing corals and so forth ruining beauty and killing wildlife and heating the planet causing climate change.

    They could have made a soft request like please do not give people straws and customers will be all where's my damn straw and the restaurant will just ignore the law and give everyone straws. The only way for this to be successful is to make the food service industry more responsible to the law than of their customers. You know what it will work they will not give straws unless you ask for them. Do they intend to try and arrest people for this? Maybe if they are serial offenders to giving out straws in spite of the law.

    "Last year, a study estimated that around eight million metric tons of our plastic waste enter the oceans from land each year. But where this plastic ends up and what form it takes is a mystery. - Jan 12, 2016 world economic forum

    "Plastic pollution doesn't just hurt marine species. When animals eat these plastic pieces, the toxins are absorbed into their body and passed up the food chain. As plastics break apart in the ocean, they also release potentially toxic chemicals such as bisphenol A (BPA), which can then enter the food web.
    Ocean Plastics Pollution" - Center for Biological Diversity
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,437

    This is why California is a failure--if this bill passes, being offered a plastic straw in a restaurant without specifically asking for one could cause your server to face up to 6 months in jail and/or a maximum $1,000 fine for violating the California Retail Food Code. Don't they have more important issues facing them than this? I use a plastic straw...but I clean it with hot water and a thin pipe cleaner every day; I get rid of it only when it splits open, which usually takes about a week. Why don't they switch to paper straws? What if I sneak my own straw into a restaurant, plant it in my drink while my server isn't looking, then report them for violating the Food Code? How can they prove they *didn't* give me a straw without me asking for one?

    @Mathsorcerer or alternatively this is why California is a success because they are quicker than most places to perceive the need to act to address issues that subsequently become generally recognised as a problem (like motoring pollution or water use for instance). Given how great the problem of plastic pollution is it's really past time that action is taken and this law (so long as it is implemented sensibly) is a good way of helping to change social attitudes. It's only 3 years since a charge for shops providing plastic bags was introduced in the UK, but the law successfully changed attitudes extremely quickly. Very few people complain about charges now, while the vast majority either do without an unnecessary bag or take their own - the total number of bags issued is down 90% as a result.

    You're probably a bit unusual at the moment in reusing your own straw, but I think there's a fair chance that it won't be long before it is relatively common for people to take their own straw to restaurants - and that would be a good thing.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    Saving the world one straw at a time I spose they reckon. I heard about this yesterday. I guess it is not as crazy as Seattle $1.75 soda/sugar tax which will hurt small places more than the big chains where you could just drive out of the city limits.
    I guess parents will need to BYOS(straw) on car trips cause if they don't ask at fast food places the kids won't have one to use (does it cover drive thrus?). Knowing from experience that riding with open drinks and kids in the back seat is a recipe for wrecks. Spills it, parents have to look over in the back, taking eyes off the road, and maybe get in wrecks.
    That's what I thought of first.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    edited January 2018
    The data has come in and the GDP growth rate for 2017 was 2.3%. Not all relevant data has been collected, so the estimate might go up or down somewhat as new data comes in.

    The Times suggested that the new tax law may arbitrarily inflate the numbers for 2018 and 2019 because some American-generated profits may no longer be falsely reported as foreign profits, and instead be reported as domestic profits, as they should have been.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    @FinneousPJ the justice system in developed countries usually depends upon how much money you have. A low-income person who gets a ticket they can't pay will likely have to show up in court, get a payment plan, then risk arrest, being put back into jail, and adding more court costs to their total if they miss even one payment. A high-income person either logs on to their high-speed Internet access to take online defensive driving or pays for the ticket with a handy debit card (some officers are equipped to accept credit card payments on the street--this is not a joke).

    Beginning in the early 1980s people were advised to begin using plastic shopping bags instead of paper so that fewer trees would have to be cut down. Five years ago saw a drastic increase in cities banning plastic bags completely. Why can't people make up their minds? Incidentally, we use cloth bags which we can wash every week or two then replace them only as they rip beyond repair.

    Anyway...California could have advised its food establishments not to hand out straws unless specifically requested. It didn't take a proposed law. If this law passes and I am ever in California I *will* sneak a straw into the restaurant then blame it on the server just to see what will happen. (truthfully, nothing will happen). Also, I figured the law was somehow environmentally-based. California is like that--they like to think they are ahead of the curve when, in reality, they are merely fringe.

    On a tangentially-related topic...a straw makes a good weapon *but* you have to have a way to protect your thumb as you cover up one end. If not, when you attack with it the straw is more likely to go through your thumb than your intended target.

    *************

    I don't care that Sen. Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) is pregnant (incidentally, she is also a vet, a Purple Heart recipient, and a double-amputee but whose prosthetics give her full mobility). What *is* important is that she is using her situation to discuss parental leave in the United States. Some people get *none*. At all. Sure, employers don't *have* to offer such benefits--as far as I know, can someone double-check the FMLA?--especially to people who are not employed on a full-term basis, but every company I have ever worked for has. One of our employees was just in the office today, pushing her infant around in the stroller to see people; she isn't scheduled to be back in the office for another 3 weeks, at which time I will re-enable all her accounts and make sure her computer is fully updated with everything she needs. Anyway...this issue dovetails with unequal pay between men and women--just pay people according to the job title, folks, not the person. It isn't a difficult concept.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,437

    Beginning in the early 1980s people were advised to begin using plastic shopping bags instead of paper so that fewer trees would have to be cut down. Five years ago saw a drastic increase in cities banning plastic bags completely. Why can't people make up their minds? Incidentally, we use cloth bags which we can wash every week or two then replace them only as they rip beyond repair.

    Also, I figured the law was somehow environmentally-based. California is like that--they like to think they are ahead of the curve when, in reality, they are merely fringe.

    They change their minds because new information becomes available about what's most harmful.

    As for California you have a different impression to me. I just did a very quick check of their environmental legislation and noted that in 2015 laws included banning plastic microbeads, increasing the proportion of renewable energy and banning routine use of antibiotics as growth promoters for livestock. To my mind it's pretty obvious that California has indeed been ahead of the curve in taking actions that within a few years become widely accepted as being required ...
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    If California wanted to get real they would add restrictions to growth hormones and steroids in livestock, for starters. An antibiotics restriction may help with resistances to such things but they still need to tackle the use of bovine growth hormones and synthetic steroids in livestock. That is not getting quite as much attention though.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Meanwhile in Canada and U.S. Trade:

    A follow up to something I posted earlier last year regarding Boeing and Bombardier trade dispute. Bombardier won the ruling in the U.S. trade commission effectively canceling the close to 300% tariff.

    Not only is this a win for Canada, UK, and Alabama, it proves international businesses can not be bullied into tariffs imposed by Trump's Commerce Department. Hopefully with NAFTA failing, this sends a message to other U.S. based companies that they can not hide behind an American First policy against their International competition.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    The data has come in and the GDP growth rate for 2017 was 2.3%. Not all relevant data has been collected, so the estimate might go up or down somewhat as new data comes in.

    The Times suggested that the new tax law may arbitrarily inflate the numbers for 2018 and 2019 because some American-generated profits may no longer be falsely reported as foreignprofits, and instead be reported as domestic profits, as they should have been.

    Didn't Trump base his numbers on his tax scam on 5 percent growth or whatever so the deficit numbers he will be making wouldn't look so bad
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