I'm kind of impressed that my forum posts count as right wing media. Moving up in the world!
Although the actions of the post-911 FBI and other intel agencies happened literally a decade ago the ramifications of it are felt to this day and it set the technical and legal groundwork for the massive, catch-all surveillance state that the likes of Snowden and others have sacrificed much to expose to the public eye.
The only one who has been really good at this has been Rand Paul.
Balance is why I post here, in a left leaning group, rather than any number of conservative echo chambers I could use. That, and I like being the only one in the room to believe something and be challenged on all sides. Keeps the mind sharp.
That sort of mental conditioning takes work, and most people aren't up to it. I avoid echo chambers (I find them boring), but I don't actively seek out the other side of the story. I used to do that; I used to read the Washington Times every day for just that reason.
I don't really know how we'd solve the problem of echo chambers. It seems like a natural extension of people's desire for like-minded people. People already tend to self-segregate by income, education level, race, sex, and interests. Self-segregation by politics is more dangerous, and definitely worth counteracting, but it occurs for the same reasons. You need a certain kind of intellectual curiosity to actually enjoy debate and disagreement.
Echo chambers also feel safer, because political discourse can be really toxic and disrespectful. On a lot of places on the web, the only people who will respect you or treat you like a human being are people who share your political views, and most people don't go places where their views elicit insults and personal attacks.
The Internet makes it very easy to find like-minded people. You can find entire communities who think just like you just by typing a few words into Google, and if you do run into someone you disagree with, you can block them. I've heard lots of people talking about blocking people, including relatives, on Facebook because they found the other person's viewpoints abhorrent. Sometimes they almost seem proud that they're depriving themselves of a different perspective.
Echo chambers also feel safer, because political discourse can be really toxic and disrespectful. On a lot of places on the web, the only people who will respect you or treat you like a human being are people who share your political views, and most people don't go places where their views elicit insults and personal attacks.
This is why I am convinced that people need to quit taking things personally. It isn't personal, it's politics. Well, at least it shouldn't be personal. If you can't discuss something with someone without insulting them, their mother, or some other unspecified group into which you think that person belongs then the problem is *you*, not them.
It can be personal without being insulting. Politics affects everyone, we all have to live with it. So in that sense, it IS personaly. There is no reason to attack people over it though.
In general, the ordinary Democrat citizen and the ordinary Republican citizen are more moderate and have more diverse views than a lot of Democrats and Republicans in the media and the government. There's a difference between being partisan as a hobby and being partisan as your job.
Even reputable news sources tend to enjoy showing people arguing with each other. These things get more views than calm debate.
So now we have a CIA man as SoS? I wonder what his conflict resolution/ negotiation tactics are, interesting I imagine. If I were another country I would be asking myself all sorts of questions about intent, motive, and errr, trust, with ex CIA across the table. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised though. I am surprised Tillerson lasted this long after the 'moron' comment a while back, TBH.
So now we have a CIA man as SoS? I wonder what his conflict resolution/ negotiation tactics are, interesting I imagine. If I were another country I would be asking myself all sorts of questions about intent, motive, and errr, trust, with ex CIA across the table. Maybe we will be pleasantly surprised though. I am surprised Tillerson lasted this long after the 'moron' comment a while back, TBH.
The strategy for replacing people in this Administration (which now happens on a weekly basis) seems to be "everyone move one chair to your right".
A senior state department tillerson aide who confirmed that Rex learned about his firing via tweet was also fired. How dare he confirm the truth right.
An ICE spokesman resigned, citing what he described as “false” and “misleading” statements made by Attorney General Jeff Sessions and ICE acting director Thomas D. Homan about California immigrant arrests. He didn't want to be a Bagdad Bob for Jeff Sessions alternative facts campaign apparently.
VA Secretary Dave Shuklin, who apparently has had to fight off Trump supporters looking to undermine him and oust him while trying to manage the VA is likely to be the next fired Cabinet member reportedly to be replaced by noted moron Rick Perry.
That, and I like being the only one in the room to believe something and be challenged on all sides. Keeps the mind sharp.
I think this is essential, and an area where our universities are failing us. I was lucky to go to an undergraduate university and a law school that were very open to competing ideas, but many students, particularly liberal students, don't get the same exposure. This leaves them at a disadvantage, where they are unprepared to experience strong idea articulated by thoughtful people who disagree with them.
In the broader picture, I think it is very sad that people often seek out echo chambers. You can see this by someone's choice of news source. Cable news, with Fox and MSNBC, is the most obvious example, but it could be even worse with online sources. When people have biases about the framing of information, this leaves them susceptible to manipulation, as the Russian government is well aware.
At the end of the day it comes down to people valuing comfort over contemplation, and I'm afraid too many people prefer the former.
I watch CNN instead of Fox News for precisely that reason. I like hearing opposing views and sometimes I find my views challenged in a good way. CNN and this forum (and my family's brainless support of the right) are why I've moderated my views on gun control. I'm probably not as open-minded as I'd like to believe but I think I'm better than most...
Because of my distaste for The Last Jedi, I took to youtube for the first time to actually look for viewpoints. Never really bothered with it before, it was somewhere I'd look for a song, something recommended by someone or one of my children would show me something they found funny.
It's very hard to escape the echo chamber because the algorithms create and direct you to them. If people are worried about echo chambers, seems to me the people to complain to is YouTube itself. Just why do they think that I need to have endless "recommended for you" bollox which basically just repeats something I've just looked at?
It doesn't take long at all to start believing that billions of people are all agreeing with your viewpoint. And I can imagine it becomes quite disconcerting when that surity of opinion is challenged because it has been so reinforced.
Because of my distaste for The Last Jedi, I took to youtube for the first time to actually look for viewpoints. Never really bothered with it before, it was somewhere I'd look for a song, something recommended by someone or one of my children would show me something they found funny.
It's very hard to escape the echo chamber because the algorithms create and direct you to them. If people are worried about echo chambers, seems to me the people to complain to is YouTube itself. Just why do they think that I need to have endless "recommended for you" bollox which basically just repeats something I've just looked at?
It doesn't take long at all to start believing that billions of people are all agreeing with your viewpoint. And I can imagine it becomes quite disconcerting when that surity of opinion is challenged because it has been so reinforced.
Well, even if there are billions of people that agree with you, that likely still leaves billions of people who don't. I think people's psyches and sense of self-worth are just too fragile these days. I blame that on the media, religion, politicians and corporations who all want to make a buck on people's insecurities and fears.
On my other board I just had to lock a thread because two children couldn't stop sniping at each other and it started to become *personal*. The complaints that that sub-forum leans too far to the right/libertarian/conservative and that it is mostly populated by white males are accurate...but those are the only people who kept showing up after the last time that forum had a huge meltdown and a lot of people left, resulting in my taking over as mod.
I know it is probably a faux pas on my part but any of you who are left-leaning and would like to counterbalance an overly-conservative forum are welcome to show up. Please and thank you.
Sorry, conservative white male here. Not wanted (the usual).
looks like the lamb saccone race is coming down to the wire with 95% it's pretty much a tie somehow.
If the GOP loses (or is unable to cheat and win) look for them to file a lawsuit claiming something something something hillary illegal immigrants something only republicans can win. disgusting tactics.
looks like the lamb saccone race is coming down to the wire with 95% it's pretty much a tie somehow.
If the GOP loses (or is unable to cheat and win) look for them to file a lawsuit claiming something something something hillary illegal immigrants something only republicans can win. disgusting tactics.
It's a +20 Trump district that Trump revolved his entire last weekend around campaigning in, and that the GOP spent millions of dollars trying to defend. No matter what way it goes (it is essentially a tie with Lamb leading by small margin with 96% reporting), there are 119 House seats in this country that are more blue (based on the 2016 election results) than PA-18. You're going to see more GOP retirements in the next few weeks. If you are a GOP House member in a district you only won by 5 or 10% in 2016, you are now seeing the writing on the wall. Much like the Alabama Senate, a Democrat has no business winning this race under normal circumstances.
Because of the Supreme Court redrawing of the maps, this district won't even exist in November as it is now. What Republican strategists are watching is Democrats massively over-performing (again) in a deep red district. If they can't reliably (or easily) hold districts Trump carried by 20 points less than 18 months ago, they are looking at a serious problem. If these type of results happen in November, the GOP is going to lose well over 50 seats.
This race isn't going to likely be decided til absentee and provisional ballots are counted, so the end of the week is likely before anything concrete is known. The numbers speak for themselves, and every political operative in the country knows what they mean. Lamb remains ahead by about 600 votes with 98% reporting. Anyway, I don't see how anyone can make a call on a race this close before absentee ballots are counted, so there is no way to reliably say who is going to win this tonight, though Lamb just got a net gain of 115 votes (now up 700) from one precinct, which in this race is a big deal.
Seems close enough to warrant a recount. It could really go either way.
Fun quirk of the night: Pennsylvania does not have an automatic recount provision for special elections.
There are also ~7000 outstanding absentee votes; most sources I've read claim that these have traditionally trended slightly--slightly--Dem. Regardless, a couple of precincts have already stated that they will not be counting these tonight.
Seems close enough to warrant a recount. It could really go either way.
Fun quirk of the night: Pennsylvania does not have an automatic recount provision for special elections.
There are also ~7000 outstanding absentee votes; most sources I've read claim that these have traditionally trended slightly--slightly--Dem. Regardless, a couple of precincts have already stated that they will not be counting these tonight.
Yep, lead for Lamb down to 95 votes with 99% reporting. The race will absolutely be decided by absentee ballots. As we are seeing more and more as the years go on, yes, in any given race, your vote DOES make a difference, and you never know when it might. In a very fishy move, Westmoreland County, which is apparently heavily red-leaning, decided tonight to not report by precinct, and also informed everyone that their vote totals were going to be late in coming in. This was a couple hours ago, when Lamb's lead was MUCH wider. If I was in Pennsylvania, I'd want to know what the vote counters in that County were up to tonight that caused this decision. And we need nation-wide move to paper ballots.
Seems close enough to warrant a recount. It could really go either way.
Fun quirk of the night: Pennsylvania does not have an automatic recount provision for special elections.
There are also ~7000 outstanding absentee votes; most sources I've read claim that these have traditionally trended slightly--slightly--Dem. Regardless, a couple of precincts have already stated that they will not be counting these tonight.
Yep, lead for Lamb down to 95 votes with 99% reporting. The race will absolutely be decided by absentee ballots. As we are seeing more and more as the years go on, yes, in any given race, your vote DOES make a difference, and you never know when it might.
I think of it this way: voting means you have a one in a million chance (say) to change the outcome of the election, an event that's far more important than one million times as important than the few hours (at most) you'd need to cast a ballot. The chance is small, but the potential impact makes it worth it.
On average, a 1% chance of earning $100 is the same as a 100% chance of earning $1.
Echo chambers also feel safer, because political discourse can be really toxic and disrespectful. On a lot of places on the web, the only people who will respect you or treat you like a human being are people who share your political views, and most people don't go places where their views elicit insults and personal attacks.
I find its easiest to get the opposing view by going to the think tanks rather than the newspapers. I'm a bit of a think tank junkie, and I really enjoy reading anything the Brookings Institute puts out, especially from Jonathan Rauch (my favorite public intellectual), Isabel Sawhill, and Henry J. Aaron. It gives me the left wing perspective, but from a source that holds itself to rigorous standards. Think tanks will always give you the brightest minds, even though most have obvious perspectives. When it comes to intellectuals, I actually prefer think tanks to academia, since everyone is mostly honest about their perspectives. Also, unlike in academia, when AEI, Cato, or Brookings have a panel they make sure to include people to give an alternative viewpoint. All the think tanks also record their panels as podcasts. I can't tell you how long I've spent listening to Brookings and Cato Events.
I had the great opportunity to work a summer with a healthcare law think tank, and got to spend time running around DC attending all sorts of super nerd panels from everywhere on the spectrum, from Heritage to the Center for American Progress. It was the best experience of my life. You'd meet passionate people with various takes, and get to discuss your disagreements over dinner/drinks after. Totally worth my massive Uber bill.
It bothers me that people always point out stupid things that the most useless people on the other side said, and try to color everyone who shares those views with some horrendous quote. I much prefer the academic approach, where in order to gain any respect or notice you must tackle the strongest voices from the other side. However, since news organization have to find readers/viewers, and being partisan sells, its harder to find commentary that is reliable. Its sad that people like Tomi Lahren get viewers. Cable news, and TV news in general, is mostly cancerous.
The exception, of course, is all the Sunday talk shows, which always feature the brightest minds. I will watch Jake Tapper on CNN, since he is wonderful. I also like Anderson Cooper. But outside of those two, I consider cable news to be cancer.
When it comes to liberal news/commentary, I tend to read most things that Ezra Klein writes. I also follow Andrew Sullivan (as far as he can be considered left-leaning) and Nicholas Kristof of the NYT to get the left-wing perspective.
Recommendations for left-leaning friends: For someone who is on the left, I recommend the American Enterprise Institute, the Hoover Institution, or Cato to get an educated perspective from a think tank. For news/commentary, I'd read George Will (today's William F. Buckley), Ross Douthat (to get THE best social conservative perspective, and also a fellow Connecticut boy), Richard Epstein (immensely accomplished law professor who also has a great podcast called "The Libertarian"), and William Kristol (though I disagree with him on soooo much). Also, though he is retiring from social commentary, Walter E. Williams was very influential on me growing up. Also, if you are interested in law check out the Federalist Society, with who I am an active member!
Please refer me to good left-leaning commentary please! (note: no Young Turks)
Seems close enough to warrant a recount. It could really go either way.
Fun quirk of the night: Pennsylvania does not have an automatic recount provision for special elections.
There are also ~7000 outstanding absentee votes; most sources I've read claim that these have traditionally trended slightly--slightly--Dem. Regardless, a couple of precincts have already stated that they will not be counting these tonight.
Yep, lead for Lamb down to 95 votes with 99% reporting. The race will absolutely be decided by absentee ballots. As we are seeing more and more as the years go on, yes, in any given race, your vote DOES make a difference, and you never know when it might.
I think of it this way: voting means you have a one in a million chance (say) to change the outcome of the election, an event that's far more important than one million times as important than the few hours (at most) you'd need to cast a ballot. The chance is small, but the potential impact makes it worth it.
On average, a 1% chance of earning $100 is the same as a 100% chance of earning $1.
My one vote in Michigan in 2016 had the most potential since I've been alive to actually sit a president so yes, every vote counts now more than ever. Get out there and make a difference!
If the GOP loses (or is unable to cheat and win) look for them to file a lawsuit claiming something something something hillary illegal immigrants something only republicans can win. disgusting tactics.
You mean like calling for a recount only of Florida's most left-leaning districts?
Seems close enough to warrant a recount. It could really go either way.
Fun quirk of the night: Pennsylvania does not have an automatic recount provision for special elections.
There are also ~7000 outstanding absentee votes; most sources I've read claim that these have traditionally trended slightly--slightly--Dem. Regardless, a couple of precincts have already stated that they will not be counting these tonight.
Yep, lead for Lamb down to 95 votes with 99% reporting. The race will absolutely be decided by absentee ballots. As we are seeing more and more as the years go on, yes, in any given race, your vote DOES make a difference, and you never know when it might.
I think of it this way: voting means you have a one in a million chance (say) to change the outcome of the election, an event that's far more important than one million times as important than the few hours (at most) you'd need to cast a ballot. The chance is small, but the potential impact makes it worth it.
On average, a 1% chance of earning $100 is the same as a 100% chance of earning $1.
My one vote in Michigan in 2016 had the most potential since I've been alive to actually sit a president so yes, every vote counts now more than ever. Get out there and make a difference!
If the GOP loses (or is unable to cheat and win) look for them to file a lawsuit claiming something something something hillary illegal immigrants something only republicans can win. disgusting tactics.
You mean like calling for a recount only of Florida's most left-leaning districts?
The funny thing is that Trump won't ever find people who agree with him in the foreign policy world. His bench is very short. There is a reason he had to get people like Mike Flynn.
I really hope Pompeo doesn't get appointed. While he's a very bright and accomplished man, I disagree with him on several foreign policy issues. He also might have trouble getting through the senate (Rand Paul voted against him last time).
I think Lamb is going to win this race barring a massive dump of absentee ballots in favor of Saccone. Which means you can predict two thing from Trump tomorrow. 1.) he will claim that thousands of illegal votes were cast (which he will present with zero evidence whatsoever) and 2.) that he was never really in favor of Saccone, despite the fact that he held a campaign rally for him 3 days ago.
I think Lamb is going to win this race barring a massive dump of absentee ballots in favor of Saccone. Which means you can predict two thing from Trump tomorrow. 1.) he will claim that surely thousands of illegal votes were cast (which he will present with zero evidence whatsoever) and 2.) that he was never really in favor of Saccone, despite the fact that he held a campaign rally for him 3 days ago.
If it was Tennessee or Georgia I'd say the absentee ballots might go for Saccone. The military vote in Pennsylvania is much smaller than the southern states so I doubt they're going to swing enough in Saccone's favor. Republicans and Democrats alike might have to rethink who they have running for these seats. There aren't any guaranteed victories these days. That is probably a good thing. Dickheads might not be able to count on automatic victories anymore...
Edit: (Speaking more about Roy Moore than Saccone but I heard whispers that Saccone wasn't the best choice in this race.)
Comments
Although the actions of the post-911 FBI and other intel agencies happened literally a decade ago the ramifications of it are felt to this day and it set the technical and legal groundwork for the massive, catch-all surveillance state that the likes of Snowden and others have sacrificed much to expose to the public eye.
The only one who has been really good at this has been Rand Paul.
I don't really know how we'd solve the problem of echo chambers. It seems like a natural extension of people's desire for like-minded people. People already tend to self-segregate by income, education level, race, sex, and interests. Self-segregation by politics is more dangerous, and definitely worth counteracting, but it occurs for the same reasons. You need a certain kind of intellectual curiosity to actually enjoy debate and disagreement.
Echo chambers also feel safer, because political discourse can be really toxic and disrespectful. On a lot of places on the web, the only people who will respect you or treat you like a human being are people who share your political views, and most people don't go places where their views elicit insults and personal attacks.
The Internet makes it very easy to find like-minded people. You can find entire communities who think just like you just by typing a few words into Google, and if you do run into someone you disagree with, you can block them. I've heard lots of people talking about blocking people, including relatives, on Facebook because they found the other person's viewpoints abhorrent. Sometimes they almost seem proud that they're depriving themselves of a different perspective.
Even reputable news sources tend to enjoy showing people arguing with each other. These things get more views than calm debate.
I am surprised Tillerson lasted this long after the 'moron' comment a while back, TBH.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/03/13/politics/goldstein-tillerson-fired/index.html
An ICE spokesman resigned, citing what he described as “false” and “misleading” statements made by Attorney General Jeff Sessions and ICE acting director Thomas D. Homan about California immigrant arrests. He didn't want to be a Bagdad Bob for Jeff Sessions alternative facts campaign apparently.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/13/ice-spokesman-resigns-over-false-statements-by-top-officials-about-calif-immigrant-arrests/
VA Secretary Dave Shuklin, who apparently has had to fight off Trump supporters looking to undermine him and oust him while trying to manage the VA is likely to be the next fired Cabinet member reportedly to be replaced by noted moron Rick Perry.
Re Echo Chambers.
Because of my distaste for The Last Jedi, I took to youtube for the first time to actually look for viewpoints. Never really bothered with it before, it was somewhere I'd look for a song, something recommended by someone or one of my children would show me something they found funny.
It's very hard to escape the echo chamber because the algorithms create and direct you to them. If people are worried about echo chambers, seems to me the people to complain to is YouTube itself.
Just why do they think that I need to have endless "recommended for you" bollox which basically just repeats something I've just looked at?
It doesn't take long at all to start believing that billions of people are all agreeing with your viewpoint. And I can imagine it becomes quite disconcerting when that surity of opinion is challenged because it has been so reinforced.
If the GOP loses (or is unable to cheat and win) look for them to file a lawsuit claiming something something something hillary illegal immigrants something only republicans can win. disgusting tactics.
Because of the Supreme Court redrawing of the maps, this district won't even exist in November as it is now. What Republican strategists are watching is Democrats massively over-performing (again) in a deep red district. If they can't reliably (or easily) hold districts Trump carried by 20 points less than 18 months ago, they are looking at a serious problem. If these type of results happen in November, the GOP is going to lose well over 50 seats.
This race isn't going to likely be decided til absentee and provisional ballots are counted, so the end of the week is likely before anything concrete is known. The numbers speak for themselves, and every political operative in the country knows what they mean. Lamb remains ahead by about 600 votes with 98% reporting. Anyway, I don't see how anyone can make a call on a race this close before absentee ballots are counted, so there is no way to reliably say who is going to win this tonight, though Lamb just got a net gain of 115 votes (now up 700) from one precinct, which in this race is a big deal.
There are also ~7000 outstanding absentee votes; most sources I've read claim that these have traditionally trended slightly--slightly--Dem. Regardless, a couple of precincts have already stated that they will not be counting these tonight.
On average, a 1% chance of earning $100 is the same as a 100% chance of earning $1.
I had the great opportunity to work a summer with a healthcare law think tank, and got to spend time running around DC attending all sorts of super nerd panels from everywhere on the spectrum, from Heritage to the Center for American Progress. It was the best experience of my life. You'd meet passionate people with various takes, and get to discuss your disagreements over dinner/drinks after. Totally worth my massive Uber bill.
It bothers me that people always point out stupid things that the most useless people on the other side said, and try to color everyone who shares those views with some horrendous quote. I much prefer the academic approach, where in order to gain any respect or notice you must tackle the strongest voices from the other side. However, since news organization have to find readers/viewers, and being partisan sells, its harder to find commentary that is reliable. Its sad that people like Tomi Lahren get viewers. Cable news, and TV news in general, is mostly cancerous.
The exception, of course, is all the Sunday talk shows, which always feature the brightest minds. I will watch Jake Tapper on CNN, since he is wonderful. I also like Anderson Cooper. But outside of those two, I consider cable news to be cancer.
When it comes to liberal news/commentary, I tend to read most things that Ezra Klein writes. I also follow Andrew Sullivan (as far as he can be considered left-leaning) and Nicholas Kristof of the NYT to get the left-wing perspective.
Recommendations for left-leaning friends:
For someone who is on the left, I recommend the American Enterprise Institute, the Hoover Institution, or Cato to get an educated perspective from a think tank. For news/commentary, I'd read George Will (today's William F. Buckley), Ross Douthat (to get THE best social conservative perspective, and also a fellow Connecticut boy), Richard Epstein (immensely accomplished law professor who also has a great podcast called "The Libertarian"), and William Kristol (though I disagree with him on soooo much). Also, though he is retiring from social commentary, Walter E. Williams was very influential on me growing up. Also, if you are interested in law check out the Federalist Society, with who I am an active member!
Please refer me to good left-leaning commentary please! (note: no Young Turks)
There's a tweet for everything
The funny thing is that Trump won't ever find people who agree with him in the foreign policy world. His bench is very short. There is a reason he had to get people like Mike Flynn.
I really hope Pompeo doesn't get appointed. While he's a very bright and accomplished man, I disagree with him on several foreign policy issues. He also might have trouble getting through the senate (Rand Paul voted against him last time).
Edit: (Speaking more about Roy Moore than Saccone but I heard whispers that Saccone wasn't the best choice in this race.)