My time spent in public school was very short. By the first grade, I was considered a problem child. Not paying attention, violent with other kids, doing things just to see how many lines I had to cross before a teacher (any teacher) would even acknowledge my existence (it was a pretty far line for a 1st grader). Eventually the school started demanding that I be tested for everything from ADHD (which I probably have) to Aspergers and Autism (which I definitely don't have). My paretns had to pull me out to keep me off of emotion altering medication. I was put into a private school out of desperation, I went in at 2nd grade, not even being able to read. Just the smaller class sizes and more structured environment helped reduce the frequency of me "acting out". It was extremely hard at first, but the structure, plus a doctor prescribed diet (turns out my violent outbursts were due to a sugar imbalance), changed things for the better dramatically. I don't have dangerous mood swings anymore, I started actually learning and paying attention (went from being unable to read in 2nd grade, to reading at a college level by 4th grade, as well as an honors student through highschool). My parents had to sacrifice a lot to get me into that private school. Any program that gives that opportunity to more people is sorely needed. I never understood the hate for private schools. One saved my life as I now know it.
. I doubt that the single mother on food stamps with two jobs living in poverty is going to send her kids to a charter or private school.
I don't know what to tell you. That's...the... entire premise of school choice. The whole point of school choice is to increase access to successful private or public charter schools for children from poor families. Especially with voucher programs, they almost exclusively go to low income families and children in districts with failing schools. School choice is designed for your "single mother on food stamps with two jobs living in poverty".
As far as Michigan goes, I agree Michigan is the exception and probably the worst example of charter schools being executed. Then again, their charter program has been overseen by Democratic administrations that have not wanted them to succeed due to the influence of the teachers unions.
The biggest school choice success stories have come in places like Cleveland, where private religious schools have been able to take students. These are preferable to for-profit schools, but Democrats have opposed them on (frankly ridiculous) non-establishment grounds.
That may be the premise the rich like Devos are saying, but thats not the reality. Its the same with religious freedom, it sounds good the way they say it until you see its being implemented in a different way. If private schools are pushing religion then they do not deserve tax payer dollars absolutely. Separation of church and state and circumventing that via 'religious freedom' bullcrap or via 'school choice' is not right and not what Americans deserve. We need to focus education on STEM and not religion if we are going to be competitive in the global market. You can get your God on your own time.
Private schools push an extra agenda you don't get with public schools - either they push religion or they push profit for shareholders.
@smeagolheart My school had a once a week seminar that was like 20 min tops for religious study. THe rest of the time it was a very structured standard school studies. You're painting a varied group with a VERY broad brush. The education standards I had to meet were much higher than any of my local public schools.
Personally I'd say 20 min a week is too much. I would doubt that religion would not creep into regular subjects. Going around the public school system to push religious schools or for profit schools is not good, I'll stand by that.
Overall the academic achievement seems to be about the same as public schools. So you may have gotten lucky with your experience. Why are we diverting money from public schools to allow these 'anything goes' schools with varying quality and zero oversight. Maybe one school doesn't push religion too much but most the other ones do. One school has standards higher than public schools, another doesn't. Taking dollars and giving up on public schools is not the answer.
Religion isn't some kind of cancer. A single religious studies is a subjec tlike any other. Heck it goes hand in hand with culture studies, and could even be folded into such a class with little change.
Religion isn't some kind of cancer. A single religious studies is a subjec tlike any other. Heck it goes hand in hand with culture studies, and could even be folded into such a class with little change.
Doesn't belong in school funded with tax payer money. It could work that way for one school but another one would not be obligated to moderate their teachings. As we've seen with Trump, when the only thing holding back insanity is common sense that is not enough.
. I doubt that the single mother on food stamps with two jobs living in poverty is going to send her kids to a charter or private school.
I don't know what to tell you. That's...the... entire premise of school choice. The whole point of school choice is to increase access to successful private or public charter schools for children from poor families. Especially with voucher programs, they almost exclusively go to low income families and children in districts with failing schools. School choice is designed for your "single mother on food stamps with two jobs living in poverty".
As far as Michigan goes, I agree Michigan is the exception and probably the worst example of charter schools being executed. Then again, their charter program has been overseen by Democratic administrations that have not wanted them to succeed due to the influence of the teachers unions.
The biggest school choice success stories have come in places like Cleveland, where private religious schools have been able to take students. These are preferable to for-profit schools, but Democrats have opposed them on (frankly ridiculous) non-establishment grounds.
That may be the premise the rich like Devos are saying, but thats not the reality. Its the same with religious freedom, it sounds good the way they say it until you see its being implemented in a different way. If private schools are pushing religion then they do not deserve tax payer dollars absolutely. Separation of church and state and circumventing that via 'religious freedom' bullcrap or via 'school choice' is not right and not what Americans deserve. We need to focus education on STEM and not religion if we are going to be competitive in the global market. You can get your God on your own time.
Private schools push an extra agenda you don't get with public schools - either they push religion or they push profit for shareholders.
There is no promotion of religion by the state if a child chooses to go to a religious school. The money goes to the child's family in the form of a voucher, and the child's family makes the decision where the money is spent, not the government
Is it a violation of the separation of church and state (which doesn't exist by the way, at least not by law) when someone takes their social security check and donates it to their synagogue? How about when someone takes public assistance to purchase a meal at a church fundraiser?
If anything, over-policing of private expenditures on religious services is a violation of one's free exercise.
. I doubt that the single mother on food stamps with two jobs living in poverty is going to send her kids to a charter or private school.
I don't know what to tell you. That's...the... entire premise of school choice. The whole point of school choice is to increase access to successful private or public charter schools for children from poor families. Especially with voucher programs, they almost exclusively go to low income families and children in districts with failing schools. School choice is designed for your "single mother on food stamps with two jobs living in poverty".
As far as Michigan goes, I agree Michigan is the exception and probably the worst example of charter schools being executed. Then again, their charter program has been overseen by Democratic administrations that have not wanted them to succeed due to the influence of the teachers unions.
The biggest school choice success stories have come in places like Cleveland, where private religious schools have been able to take students. These are preferable to for-profit schools, but Democrats have opposed them on (frankly ridiculous) non-establishment grounds.
That may be the premise the rich like Devos are saying, but thats not the reality.
What's not the reality? You make a conclusive statement with nothing to back it up. Care to cite a single source to back up the claim that school choice programs only exist in wealthy districts that already have good public schools?
My time spent in public school was very short. By the first grade, I was considered a problem child. Not paying attention, violent with other kids, doing things just to see how many lines I had to cross before a teacher (any teacher) would even acknowledge my existence (it was a pretty far line for a 1st grader). Eventually the school started demanding that I be tested for everything from ADHD (which I probably have) to Aspergers and Autism (which I definitely don't have). My paretns had to pull me out to keep me off of emotion altering medication. I was put into a private school out of desperation, I went in at 2nd grade, not even being able to read. Just the smaller class sizes and more structured environment helped reduce the frequency of me "acting out". It was extremely hard at first, but the structure, plus a doctor prescribed diet (turns out my violent outbursts were due to a sugar imbalance), changed things for the better dramatically. I don't have dangerous mood swings anymore, I started actually learning and paying attention (went from being unable to read in 2nd grade, to reading at a college level by 4th grade, as well as an honors student through highschool). My parents had to sacrifice a lot to get me into that private school. Any program that gives that opportunity to more people is sorely needed. I never understood the hate for private schools. One saved my life as I now know it.
It's easy to waive pom-poms for public education when you grow up in wealthy neighborhood, or if your parents were wealthy enough to afford private education. The reality is that with public schools, like with everything else, there are some very good ones and some horrendous ones.
People also ignore social reasons behind school choice programs that are unrelated to academic performance. If I lived in a dangerous neighborhood with gang-related activity, I'd prefer my kids didn't go to school where drugs are being dealt and gangs are doing their recruiting. Worse, there are some schools where learning is discouraged, and academic success is made fun of. There is something to be said about surrounding yourself with ambitious people who actually want to do well in school and in life.
The First Amendment's Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.”
Are there problems in some schools? Sure, but the answer isn't to defund them by diverting kids and funds and give up on kids and let them be brainwashed like their parents. On a related note vaccination should not be optional either as we are seeing too many misled people are not vaccinating their kids and were seeing outbreaks and returns of diseases that should not be a problem anymore.
*******************
It's Friday who is quitting, resigning or getting fired today from the White House? Maybe McMaster was the one for this week.
The First Amendment's Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.”
Yeah, but as I went to great lengths to explain in my post allowing parents to use education vouchers at religious schools is a long ways away from the federal government making a law respecting the establishment of a religion. I'm not even going to touch the dubious case that the Establishment Clause binds the states, but if you take your stated position on school vouchers it is hard to see why you wouldn't object to my social security and public assistance scenarios.
I grew up a small town country boy. My mom was on the County Board of Education in the 70's and 80's for many years, and pushed for curriculum improvement, mostly math and science. When nothing was being done she had me enrolled in a private school for one year during high school. An article came out in the local paper about it, basically scolding her, as a board member, for doing so. She responded by saying that if the county was not open enough to the idea of change then they could basically stick it (Well, she wouldn't have used that phrase, but it was what she meant).
I eventually went back to that high school as the other was getting too expensive and I didn't get along with the rich city kids and their cliques. The weird part was that even though they gave us a little money to help with the cost the first year, they started asking for more after that. I have a niece that was put in a religious private school for the better curriculum, but they were pushing girls as inferior and said that they did not need to focus on college, but on getting a husband instead.
Obviously not all schools and BofE's are like these, but I think their are good and bad schools no matter the type.
Even though his last ban on transgender troops is being fought in the court, Trump's friday night massacre this weekend he banned transgender troops again.
Here is a good video about Chile and Pinochet. Is truth that Pinochet made some human rights violations but nothing compared to Cuba or any Argentine dictatorship.
The First Amendment's Establishment Clause prohibits the government from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion.”
Yeah, but as I went to great lengths to explain in my post allowing parents to use education vouchers at religious schools is a long ways away from the federal government making a law respecting the establishment of a religion. I'm not even going to touch the dubious case that the Establishment Clause binds the states, but if you take your stated position on school vouchers it is hard to see why you wouldn't object to my social security and public assistance scenarios.
The state should be neutral in relation with religion, not atheistic you can found a school of any religion and people can apply for your school.
Here is a good video about Chile and Pinochet. Is truth that Pinochet made some human rights violations but nothing compared to Cuba or any Argentine dictatorship.
While its true that Pinochet enacted many economic policies that benefited Chile, his human rights violations were nothing to scoff at. Sure, it wasn't as bad as Castro and the Peronists, but political murder is absolutely inexcusable.
Here is a good video about Chile and Pinochet. Is truth that Pinochet made some human rights violations but nothing compared to Cuba or any Argentine dictatorship.
While its true that Pinochet enacted many economic policies that benefited Chile, his human rights violations were nothing to scoff at. Sure, it wasn't as bad as Castro and the Peronists, but political murder is absolutely inexcusable.
I agree. My complain is only that the leftist hypocrisy. Praise Che Guevara, and critique Pinochet is very hypocritical.
I know that for the American left, Che Guevara can't be racist, since for then if two whites have a soon in latin america, his soon will be non white(don't ask me why) and non whites can't be racist to them. I an not saying that the right is 100% coherent but at least i saw some right wing people criticizing Trump's protectionism but some people was praising. I never saw a communist criticizing Che.
@SorcererV1ct0r: I've heard lots of people on the left criticize Che Guevara. Personally, I consider him nothing more than a run of the mill communist thug. I've also heard lots of people on the left criticize the notion that only whites can be racist. Personally, I think that idea is very narrow-minded. Just because you haven't heard a liberal say X doesn't mean liberals believe Y.
You know, I've never heard a conservative ever criticize Pinochet. Does that mean conservatives are hypocrites for criticizing Che Guevara?
@SorcererV1ct0r: I've heard lots of people on the left criticize Che Guevara. Personally, I consider him nothing more than a run of the mill communist thug. I've also heard lots of people on the left criticize the notion that only whites can be racist. Personally, I think that idea is very narrow-minded. Just because you haven't heard a liberal say X doesn't mean liberals believe Y.
You know, I've never heard a conservative ever criticize Pinochet. Does that mean conservatives are hypocrites for criticizing Che Guevara?
Even though his last ban on transgender troops is being fought in the court, Trump's friday night massacre this weekend he banned transgender troops again.
And it remains nothing but disgraceful, religious right pandering bullshit. I'm sure Mike Pence will sleep better tonight.
@SorcererV1ct0r: I've heard lots of people on the left criticize Che Guevara. Personally, I consider him nothing more than a run of the mill communist thug. I've also heard lots of people on the left criticize the notion that only whites can be racist. Personally, I think that idea is very narrow-minded. Just because you haven't heard a liberal say X doesn't mean liberals believe Y.
You know, I've never heard a conservative ever criticize Pinochet. Does that mean conservatives are hypocrites for criticizing Che Guevara?
No.
Pinochet sucks! There, now you've heard it.
He made a lot of unnecessary murders without trial, is a terrible thing to do. But without Pinochet, Chile will probably be like Venezuela. Semiticgod is right. I committed a Strawman argument. IF we compare the left in USA with the left in latin america, then the left in USA is probably much more closer to the left in Uruguay than the left of Venezuela or Cuba. Not saying that USA left is exactly like Uruguay left.
About the notion that only whites can be racist, some part of the left think that way(not accusing all left that was a mistake), they even invented the therm "colorism" to describe a mixed race person being racist against other races. And everything today is racism. I was called racist only due my dating preferences.
He made a lot of unnecessary murders without trial, is a terrible thing to do. But without Pinochet, Chile will probably be like Venezuela. Semiticgod is right. I committed a Strawman argument. IF we compare the left in USA with the left in latin america, then the left in USA is probably much more closer to the left in Uruguay than the left of Venezuela or Cuba. Not saying that USA left is exactly like Uruguay left.
About the notion that only whites can be racist, some part of the left think that way(not accusing all left that was a mistake), they even invented the therm "colorism" to describe a mixed race person being racist against other races. And everything today is racism. I was called racist only due my dating preferences.
Okay. I'll bite. I am not sure what argument you're trying to make right now.
He made a lot of unnecessary murders without trial, is a terrible thing to do. But without Pinochet, Chile will probably be like Venezuela. Semiticgod is right. I committed a Strawman argument. IF we compare the left in USA with the left in latin america, then the left in USA is probably much more closer to the left in Uruguay than the left of Venezuela or Cuba. Not saying that USA left is exactly like Uruguay left.
About the notion that only whites can be racist, some part of the left think that way(not accusing all left that was a mistake), they even invented the therm "colorism" to describe a mixed race person being racist against other races. And everything today is racism. I was called racist only due my dating preferences.
Okay. I'll bite. I am not sure what argument you're trying to make right now.
I was trying to argue about left hypocrisy but both sides have hypocrites.
If by some reason afro woman decides to import african dna, then the left will praise that; the majority of woman who import choose to import due the lack of information. And the majority of woman who import are white.
He made a lot of unnecessary murders without trial, is a terrible thing to do. But without Pinochet, Chile will probably be like Venezuela. Semiticgod is right. I committed a Strawman argument. IF we compare the left in USA with the left in latin america, then the left in USA is probably much more closer to the left in Uruguay than the left of Venezuela or Cuba. Not saying that USA left is exactly like Uruguay left.
About the notion that only whites can be racist, some part of the left think that way(not accusing all left that was a mistake), they even invented the therm "colorism" to describe a mixed race person being racist against other races. And everything today is racism. I was called racist only due my dating preferences.
Okay. I'll bite. I am not sure what argument you're trying to make right now.
I was trying to argue about left hypocrisy but both sides have hypocrites.
If by some reason afro woman decides to import african dna, then the left will complain that; the majority of woman who import choose to import due the lack of information. No woman will wanna have a son without choosing the best father that they can.
I have never thought about this subject even once in my life before this moment.
Wisconsin GOP engaging in what can only be described as a total, utter subversion of democracy itself. Don't like the way the election results are trending since Trump took office?? Simple, you just stop holding the elections, and deny the people of those districts ANY representation in the State Legislature:
Comments
I was put into a private school out of desperation, I went in at 2nd grade, not even being able to read. Just the smaller class sizes and more structured environment helped reduce the frequency of me "acting out". It was extremely hard at first, but the structure, plus a doctor prescribed diet (turns out my violent outbursts were due to a sugar imbalance), changed things for the better dramatically. I don't have dangerous mood swings anymore, I started actually learning and paying attention (went from being unable to read in 2nd grade, to reading at a college level by 4th grade, as well as an honors student through highschool).
My parents had to sacrifice a lot to get me into that private school. Any program that gives that opportunity to more people is sorely needed. I never understood the hate for private schools. One saved my life as I now know it.
"Our land"?? Good god....
Private schools push an extra agenda you don't get with public schools - either they push religion or they push profit for shareholders.
Overall the academic achievement seems to be about the same as public schools. So you may have gotten lucky with your experience. Why are we diverting money from public schools to allow these 'anything goes' schools with varying quality and zero oversight. Maybe one school doesn't push religion too much but most the other ones do. One school has standards higher than public schools, another doesn't. Taking dollars and giving up on public schools is not the answer.
Is it a violation of the separation of church and state (which doesn't exist by the way, at least not by law) when someone takes their social security check and donates it to their synagogue? How about when someone takes public assistance to purchase a meal at a church fundraiser?
If anything, over-policing of private expenditures on religious services is a violation of one's free exercise.
It's easy to waive pom-poms for public education when you grow up in wealthy neighborhood, or if your parents were wealthy enough to afford private education. The reality is that with public schools, like with everything else, there are some very good ones and some horrendous ones.
People also ignore social reasons behind school choice programs that are unrelated to academic performance. If I lived in a dangerous neighborhood with gang-related activity, I'd prefer my kids didn't go to school where drugs are being dealt and gangs are doing their recruiting. Worse, there are some schools where learning is discouraged, and academic success is made fun of. There is something to be said about surrounding yourself with ambitious people who actually want to do well in school and in life.
Are there problems in some schools? Sure, but the answer isn't to defund them by diverting kids and funds and give up on kids and let them be brainwashed like their parents. On a related note vaccination should not be optional either as we are seeing too many misled people are not vaccinating their kids and were seeing outbreaks and returns of diseases that should not be a problem anymore.
*******************
It's Friday who is quitting, resigning or getting fired today from the White House? Maybe McMaster was the one for this week.
I eventually went back to that high school as the other was getting too expensive and I didn't get along with the rich city kids and their cliques. The weird part was that even though they gave us a little money to help with the cost the first year, they started asking for more after that.
I have a niece that was put in a religious private school for the better curriculum, but they were pushing girls as inferior and said that they did not need to focus on college, but on getting a husband instead.
Obviously not all schools and BofE's are like these, but I think their are good and bad schools no matter the type.
Also, Che Guevara was racist too. And nobody on left criticizes his racism.
"Mexicans are mostly a rabble of illiterate indians" (Che Guevara, 1955);
The black is indolent and adreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink;
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2013/apr/17/marco-rubio/did-che-guevara-write-extensively-about-superiorit/
I know that for the American left, Che Guevara can't be racist, since for then if two whites have a soon in latin america, his soon will be non white(don't ask me why) and non whites can't be racist to them. I an not saying that the right is 100% coherent but at least i saw some right wing people criticizing Trump's protectionism but some people was praising. I never saw a communist criticizing Che.
You know, I've never heard a conservative ever criticize Pinochet. Does that mean conservatives are hypocrites for criticizing Che Guevara?
No.
About the notion that only whites can be racist, some part of the left think that way(not accusing all left that was a mistake), they even invented the therm "colorism" to describe a mixed race person being racist against other races. And everything today is racism. I was called racist only due my dating preferences.
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Now the lefitist "my body my choice" is complaining because woman that use artificial insemination tend to choose someone "similar" https://www.wsj.com/articles/in-mixed-race-brazil-sperm-imports-from-u-s-whites-are-booming-1521711000
If by some reason afro woman decides to import african dna, then the left will praise that; the majority of woman who import choose to import due the lack of information. And the majority of woman who import are white.
http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/380045-wisconsin-gop-will-tinker-with-election-laws-rather-than-follow-court