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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018
    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2018
    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    So is the choice subsidy or death? I suggest subsidy then.

    We pay enough taxes, we can save money by cutting out the middle men getting rich of private insurance. Other countries pay less, get better results, longer life expectancies and everyone is covered.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018
    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    I guess the other choice is everyone who has ever been sick while lapsed on insurance coverage can no longer can get it. Incidentally, no other country even has this conversation. We could start shoring up the costs by, oh, I don't know, not paying for a 1/5th of Israel's defense budget. Seeing as they are a country that HAS universal health care and we don't.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835

    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    So is the choice subsidy or death? I suggest subsidy then.

    We pay enough taxes, we can save money by cutting out the middle men getting rich of private insurance. Other countries pay less, get better results, longer life expectancies and everyone is covered.
    HealthCare, Welfare and Unemployment Insurance are just a few systems that raise taxes. Up here in Canada it's a no brainer, in the U.S. it's a hard sell. If you don't raise taxes you cannot have Universal Healthcare. Trying to place it on the employer or family group will never work. You either all pay, or you all find your own way.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    It should be a no brainer here in the US but as we mentioned a few pages ago its more of a dog eat dog culture. Strangers are dangers! Distrust your fellow man, why is this guy talking to me, what's he selling? And to many the American dream is I am out to get mine and that is easily perverted to 'I don't want you to get yours' as well.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835

    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    I guess the other choice is everyone who has ever been sick while lapsed on insurance coverage can no longer can get it. Incidentally, no other country even has this conversation. We could start shoring up the costs by, oh, I don't know, not paying for a 1/5th of Israel's defense budget. Seeing as they are a country that HAS universal health care and we don't.
    Are you trying to blame Israel ( all of Israel's citizens pay taxes according to their healthcare) because American citizens do not want to pay higher taxes? Also helping an ally and only Democracy in the middle east is not a bad thing.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018

    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    I guess the other choice is everyone who has ever been sick while lapsed on insurance coverage can no longer can get it. Incidentally, no other country even has this conversation. We could start shoring up the costs by, oh, I don't know, not paying for a 1/5th of Israel's defense budget. Seeing as they are a country that HAS universal health care and we don't.
    Are you trying to blame Israel ( all of Israel's citizens pay taxes according to their healthcare) because American citizens do not want to pay higher taxes? Also helping an ally and only Democracy in the middle east is not a bad thing.
    I'm saying since they can afford universal healthcare for their citizens, they don't need OUR money to purchase military equipment when we apparently can't afford to even take care of our own citizens in a similar manner. Conservatives in the US are well-known for complaining about "where their tax dollars go". Well, as a liberal, I'd like to get in on the game. And I'd prefer we take a step toward making sure people who have pre-exisiting conditions don't die, rather than sending money to another country to procure more weapons of war (that is incidentally transferred right back into the pockets of American arms manufacturers). It has nothing to do with blaming Israel. It has to do with how we are spending our money. And I don't believe a country that can afford it's own universal health care (which is the right thing to do) needs our help in continuing to fund the endless cycle of the military industrial complex. It is for sure a decent place to start. Not that this will EVER happen. Because the money we send to Israel is literally the ONLY foreign aid money that is never criticized or pushed back on in any way, shape, or form. $38 billion over 10 years. That is a hell of alot of healthcare.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    If we REALLY want to be be smart about this (haha yeah), we wouldn't even HAVE to raise taxes to make universal healthcare happen. Our gov. OVERFUNDS on many things, and cutting some of the exhorbitant funding in other areas *coughmilitarycough* a gov sponsored healthcare system would be easily achievable.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2018

    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    I guess the other choice is everyone who has ever been sick while lapsed on insurance coverage can no longer can get it. Incidentally, no other country even has this conversation. We could start shoring up the costs by, oh, I don't know, not paying for a 1/5th of Israel's defense budget. Seeing as they are a country that HAS universal health care and we don't.
    Are you trying to blame Israel ( all of Israel's citizens pay taxes according to their healthcare) because American citizens do not want to pay higher taxes? Also helping an ally and only Democracy in the middle east is not a bad thing.
    I think he was referring to more the ridiculous amounts we spend on defense warfare and contractors including subsidizing Israel. How about this Trumpian perversion of an idea let's defend Israel and make them pay for it.

    Israeli activities in Gaza are often problematic, to put it nicely, when people are killed and restricted like living in a prison.

    Canada, France, the UK, Mexico, Germany, Italy, and Japan yet Trump doesn't have problems pissing in their faces and re-evaluating things these days.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835

    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    I guess the other choice is everyone who has ever been sick while lapsed on insurance coverage can no longer can get it. Incidentally, no other country even has this conversation. We could start shoring up the costs by, oh, I don't know, not paying for a 1/5th of Israel's defense budget. Seeing as they are a country that HAS universal health care and we don't.
    Are you trying to blame Israel ( all of Israel's citizens pay taxes according to their healthcare) because American citizens do not want to pay higher taxes? Also helping an ally and only Democracy in the middle east is not a bad thing.
    I'm saying since they can afford universal healthcare for their citizens, they don't need OUR money to purchase military equipment when we apparently can't afford to even take care of our own citizens in a similar manner. Conservatives in the US are well-known for complaining about "where their tax dollars go". Well, as a liberal, I'd like to get in on the game. And I'd prefer we take a step toward making sure people who have pre-exisiting conditions don't die, rather than sending money to another country to procure more weapons of war (that is incidentally transferred right back into the pockets of American arms manufacturers). It has nothing to do with blaming Israel. It has to do with how we are spending our money. And I don't believe a country that can afford it's own universal health care (which is the right thing to do) needs our help in continuing to fund the endless cycle of the military industrial complex. It is for sure a decent place to start. Not that this will EVER happen. Because the money we send to Israel is literally the ONLY foreign aid money that is never criticized or pushed back on in any way, shape, or form. $38 billion over 10 years. That is a hell of alot of healthcare.
    I agree with you on cutting back in order to fund Healthcare but Obama had a chance to cut off Israel and he didn't. Can't blame Rep's for that.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    Healthcare insurance is a parasitic industry. Your healthcare provider doesn't make money unless you lose it. They don't provide a service or a create a product; they're just a middleman that skims off the top.

    I would much rather pay higher taxes to the government than have to deal with a health insurance provider. A single payer system wouldn't need to run a profit to survive; it would survive on public approval alone.

    Cut out the middleman. Create a single payer healthcare system. Get rid of this parasitic industry that only exists to suck money out of the system.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018

    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    I guess the other choice is everyone who has ever been sick while lapsed on insurance coverage can no longer can get it. Incidentally, no other country even has this conversation. We could start shoring up the costs by, oh, I don't know, not paying for a 1/5th of Israel's defense budget. Seeing as they are a country that HAS universal health care and we don't.
    Are you trying to blame Israel ( all of Israel's citizens pay taxes according to their healthcare) because American citizens do not want to pay higher taxes? Also helping an ally and only Democracy in the middle east is not a bad thing.
    I'm saying since they can afford universal healthcare for their citizens, they don't need OUR money to purchase military equipment when we apparently can't afford to even take care of our own citizens in a similar manner. Conservatives in the US are well-known for complaining about "where their tax dollars go". Well, as a liberal, I'd like to get in on the game. And I'd prefer we take a step toward making sure people who have pre-exisiting conditions don't die, rather than sending money to another country to procure more weapons of war (that is incidentally transferred right back into the pockets of American arms manufacturers). It has nothing to do with blaming Israel. It has to do with how we are spending our money. And I don't believe a country that can afford it's own universal health care (which is the right thing to do) needs our help in continuing to fund the endless cycle of the military industrial complex. It is for sure a decent place to start. Not that this will EVER happen. Because the money we send to Israel is literally the ONLY foreign aid money that is never criticized or pushed back on in any way, shape, or form. $38 billion over 10 years. That is a hell of alot of healthcare.
    I agree with you on cutting back in order to fund Healthcare but Obama had a chance to cut off Israel and he didn't. Can't blame Rep's for that.
    You can blame both parties for this, yes. But as in many cases, there is the matter of degree. Democrats are totally in love with this funding. But Republicans are REALLY in love with it. If you don't take my word for it, ask Bibi if he likes Trump or Obama better.
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835

    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    I guess the other choice is everyone who has ever been sick while lapsed on insurance coverage can no longer can get it. Incidentally, no other country even has this conversation. We could start shoring up the costs by, oh, I don't know, not paying for a 1/5th of Israel's defense budget. Seeing as they are a country that HAS universal health care and we don't.
    Are you trying to blame Israel ( all of Israel's citizens pay taxes according to their healthcare) because American citizens do not want to pay higher taxes? Also helping an ally and only Democracy in the middle east is not a bad thing.
    I think he was referring to more the ridiculous amounts we spend on defense warfare and contractors including subsidizing Israel. How about this Trumpian perversion of an idea let's defend Israel and make them pay for it.

    Israeli activities in Gaza are often problematic, to put it nicely, when people are killed and restricted like living in a prison.

    Canada, France, the UK, Mexico, Germany, Italy, and Japan yet Trump doesn't have problems pissing in their faces and re-evaluating things these days.
    Denounce Hamas and Hezbolah and they get peace. It's pretty simple. As long as those two Terror orgs run the Palestinian govermnment Israel will never let them be free.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018

    Healthcare insurance is a parasitic industry. Your healthcare provider doesn't make money unless you lose it. They don't provide a service or a create a product; they're just a middleman that skims off the top.

    I would much rather pay higher taxes to the government than have to deal with a health insurance provider. A single payer system wouldn't need to run a profit to survive; it would survive on public approval alone.

    Cut out the middleman. Create a single payer healthcare system. Get rid of this parasitic industry that only exists to suck money out of the system.

    The health insurance industry exists in a total moral void zone. What is most interesting about Michael Moore's anti-health insurance movie "Sicko" is that it wasn't even about people who lacked health insurance. It was focused on people who HAD valid health insurance and got screwed anyway. And as I have have said two dozen times, there is a reason no other country we would want to compare ourselves to does this, and it isn't because the US is the lone country that is "doing it right" because we are so exceptional. The rest of the world thinks our healthcare system is insane. Even CONSERVATIVES from other countries think our healthcare system is insane.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2018

    Balrog99 said:

    Zaghoul said:

    I reckon that until this country separates capitalism from healthcare, it does not seem like we are going to have a good healthcare system. The dependence on private health insurance companies is always going to be a bad deal for people. It was before the ACA, and has gotten worse since, with the rising price of insurance. Obama had one good thing that came out of the ACA though, and that was the pre-existing conditions law. The rest just does not work, and cannot properly work without putting limits on drug prices and medical procedures. I think he meant well, but doing one thing, requiring people to buy from private insurers, without tackling prices, only just fed fuel to the fire in favor of private insurers and big pharma.
    Personally I see this country's healthcare industry, for that's what it really is, an industry, as an outright denial of the UN's Declaration of Human Rights, when it comes to access to healthcare everyone can expect to afford. We've pretty much let that one go, and seem to be staying on the path to do the same. I'd almost call it paramount to murder, but maybe that is going a bit far, so I'll just call it letting too many people die.
    All presidents talk a big game when it comes to this issue of prices, but then don't do one darn thing about it that has stemmed the tide of rising costs. Profits and health are just not a good combo for a country, well, except for big pharma and insurance companies. That has even come up in congress, but even then, when drug companies are called out on there exorbitant pricing, still nothing is really done. Yeah, I know, lobbying, donations, stocks, and turning a blind eye, still doesn't excuse our poor excuse for a healthcare, dare I say it, system.
    I like to think of the Infant Mortality Rate as a general marker for healthcare in a country. We don't even outmatch lil ol Cuba when it comes to that, and to me, that says we're doing something wrong, something very wrong.

    I'd like to mention that news stories the last 24 hours seem to indicate this Administration is STILL trying to take away pre-existing condition protections, which I continue to view as nothing but malicious cruelty for profit.
    How can you 'insure' against something you already have? We need to stop calling it insurance and call it what it is, a subsidy. A subsidy comes from the government, not private companies. Therein lies the rub, what higher level of tax are people willing to pay for this?
    I guess the other choice is everyone who has ever been sick while lapsed on insurance coverage can no longer can get it. Incidentally, no other country even has this conversation. We could start shoring up the costs by, oh, I don't know, not paying for a 1/5th of Israel's defense budget. Seeing as they are a country that HAS universal health care and we don't.
    Are you trying to blame Israel ( all of Israel's citizens pay taxes according to their healthcare) because American citizens do not want to pay higher taxes? Also helping an ally and only Democracy in the middle east is not a bad thing.
    I think he was referring to more the ridiculous amounts we spend on defense warfare and contractors including subsidizing Israel. How about this Trumpian perversion of an idea let's defend Israel and make them pay for it.

    Israeli activities in Gaza are often problematic, to put it nicely, when people are killed and restricted like living in a prison.

    Canada, France, the UK, Mexico, Germany, Italy, and Japan yet Trump doesn't have problems pissing in their faces and re-evaluating things these days.
    Denounce Hamas and Hezbolah and they get peace. It's pretty simple. As long as those two Terror orgs run the Palestinian govermnment Israel will never let them be free.
    I kinda doubt it. Suppose they do, is Israel really going to just be like ok well I guess there'll be peace now. Not going to happen.

    The only reason Bibi is in power is fearmongering of Palestinians and Gaza. He can't let that go. If he lets that go, people will focus on his corruption. He doesn't want to cede power. There's always a scapegoat.

    Similar to how we worked really hard in the US and signed an Iran deal that both sides didn't really love but seemed to be working by every available metric then the next guy comes in and tosses it out because he wants to portray Iran as the "other" the bad guy. Authoritarian guys always need a bad guy an other to distract you with while they are running away with all the money.
    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,371

    Healthcare insurance is a parasitic industry. Your healthcare provider doesn't make money unless you lose it. They don't provide a service or a create a product; they're just a middleman that skims off the top.

    I would much rather pay higher taxes to the government than have to deal with a health insurance provider. A single payer system wouldn't need to run a profit to survive; it would survive on public approval alone.

    Cut out the middleman. Create a single payer healthcare system. Get rid of this parasitic industry that only exists to suck money out of the system.

    Unfortunately the government doesn't have a great track record on their programs either or I'd agree with you. That kind of money pouring into the federal coffers just screams 'Misuse Me!.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018
    Balrog99 said:

    Healthcare insurance is a parasitic industry. Your healthcare provider doesn't make money unless you lose it. They don't provide a service or a create a product; they're just a middleman that skims off the top.

    I would much rather pay higher taxes to the government than have to deal with a health insurance provider. A single payer system wouldn't need to run a profit to survive; it would survive on public approval alone.

    Cut out the middleman. Create a single payer healthcare system. Get rid of this parasitic industry that only exists to suck money out of the system.

    Unfortunately the government doesn't have a great track record on their programs either or I'd agree with you. That kind of money pouring into the federal coffers just screams 'Misuse Me!.
    We're going to have to get over this if we ever want to see our healthcare system improve. Because no matter what problem there may be with government programs, when it comes to healthcare, it would remove the profit motive. And the entire problem we have is that there is a price on people's lives. Health insurance companies have NO incentive to be fair to their customers or pay out claims, or to (as we have discussed) even cover people with pre-existing conditions. The less insurance companies pay to customers, the better they do.

    What is the most likely thing you will see on the bulletin board on the outside of super-markets in this country?? It is almost always a flyer for a spaghetti feed or silent auction that is practically BEGGING people to attend to cover the medical bills of a family that has been hit with a horrible illness or injury. The subtext on all of them is screaming "Please help us, we're broke!!" And that money probably lasts, what, 2, maybe 3 months?? And you can't hold them in perpetuity. Most people will not subject their friends to that, aren't willing to, have too much pride, etc. And the fact is (as far as I know) that going broke because of medical bills is a non-existent problem in every other country. It isn't even a concept they can wrap their heads around.

    And as a hypothetical (considering he has no actual beliefs), can you IMAGINE how much Trump's popularity would surge if he called for something like Medicare for all and brought 3/4 of his near cult-like following along to that line of thinking?? Liberals would have to throw in the towel for years if that happened. But as I predicted long before he was even sworn in, Trump's actually nitty-gritty policy would come from the minds of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell, which is simply supply-side Republican orthodoxy. Remember, Obama DID think outside the liberal box for the baby-step that was Obamacare, as it was a conservative plan for universal coverage.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited June 2018
    bleusteel said:



    I would like to say it was a terrific achievement for the Golden Knights to make it to the Final in their first year as a team. Hopefully they can keep it up next season- it’s been great for the local economy.

    As a Torontonian. Tell me what it is like to watch your hockey team "make it to the final"? :p

    (I fear even I may grow too old to see such a thing)
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    elminster said:

    bleusteel said:



    I would like to say it was a terrific achievement for the Golden Knights to make it to the Final in their first year as a team. Hopefully they can keep it up next season- it’s been great for the local economy.

    As a Torontonian. Tell me what it is like to watch your hockey team "make it to the final"? :p

    (I fear even I may grow too old to see such a thing)
    I have no idea how an expansion team could have made it this far. In every sport, I can't think of a single expansion team since I became aware of the concept in about 1989 has even been remotely COMPETITIVE in their first year, much less on the verge of winning it all. Did they change the rules for the expansion draft this time that made it harder for teams to protect their best players??
  • TakisMegasTakisMegas Member Posts: 835

    elminster said:

    bleusteel said:



    I would like to say it was a terrific achievement for the Golden Knights to make it to the Final in their first year as a team. Hopefully they can keep it up next season- it’s been great for the local economy.

    As a Torontonian. Tell me what it is like to watch your hockey team "make it to the final"? :p

    (I fear even I may grow too old to see such a thing)
    I have no idea how an expansion team could have made it this far. In every sport, I can't think of a single expansion team since I became aware of the concept in about 1989 has even been remotely COMPETITIVE in their first year, much less on the verge of winning it all. Did they change the rules for the expansion draft this time that made it harder for teams to protect their best players??
    It took the Florida Panthers 3 yrs to get to the finals. Mind you that was the Trap/ clutch and grab era of the NHL. This Vegas team did have some rules changed in their favor, but not to take away anything from their accomplishment.
  • bleusteelbleusteel Member Posts: 523
    elminster said:

    bleusteel said:



    I would like to say it was a terrific achievement for the Golden Knights to make it to the Final in their first year as a team. Hopefully they can keep it up next season- it’s been great for the local economy.

    As a Torontonian. Tell me what it is like to watch your hockey team "make it to the final"? :p

    (I fear even I may grow too old to see such a thing)
    It was fun, I highly recommend it. ;-)

    elminster said:

    bleusteel said:



    I would like to say it was a terrific achievement for the Golden Knights to make it to the Final in their first year as a team. Hopefully they can keep it up next season- it’s been great for the local economy.

    As a Torontonian. Tell me what it is like to watch your hockey team "make it to the final"? :p

    (I fear even I may grow too old to see such a thing)
    I have no idea how an expansion team could have made it this far. In every sport, I can't think of a single expansion team since I became aware of the concept in about 1989 has even been remotely COMPETITIVE in their first year, much less on the verge of winning it all. Did they change the rules for the expansion draft this time that made it harder for teams to protect their best players??
    I’m not a sports person but I gather some of the players were even undrafted. Marchessault (#81)’s kids go to my daughter’s preschool. Prior to this season he was making $700k maybe. Now he has a 6yr $30 million deal. Not bad for a walk on.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018
    Just when you though things couldn't get any dumber.........

    The thing is, Kim Jong Un is actually a huge basketball fan, and he and Dennis Rodman are really friends. And Trump LOVES the glow of celebrity. The problem here would be that despite his status as one of the best rebounders and defenders in NBA history, he is also a certifiable nutcase. I don't think we yet fully comprehend what a ridiculous shit-show this is going to be.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    Balrog99 said:

    Unfortunately the government doesn't have a great track record on their programs either or I'd agree with you. That kind of money pouring into the federal coffers just screams 'Misuse Me!.

    I think my cataracts might be becoming a problem. I read that several times as "Misuse Mel" and was starting to think about Googling "Mel" to find out what this US meme I'd missed was when I finally realized what it was o:).

    Just on the point of misuse, while that could be a danger for a potential national health service that danger needs to be seen in the perspective of the current system. Not only is the existing system expensive and poorly performing, but I would argue there's also plenty of misuse there as well in relation to things like lobbying and campaign contributions.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811

    elminster said:

    bleusteel said:



    I would like to say it was a terrific achievement for the Golden Knights to make it to the Final in their first year as a team. Hopefully they can keep it up next season- it’s been great for the local economy.

    As a Torontonian. Tell me what it is like to watch your hockey team "make it to the final"? :p

    (I fear even I may grow too old to see such a thing)
    I have no idea how an expansion team could have made it this far. In every sport, I can't think of a single expansion team since I became aware of the concept in about 1989 has even been remotely COMPETITIVE in their first year, much less on the verge of winning it all. Did they change the rules for the expansion draft this time that made it harder for teams to protect their best players??
    Ya. It was ridiculous how much talent Vegas had available to draft from because of the rule change.
    Previously teams were allowed to protect: one goaltender, five defensemen, and nine forwards or two goaltenders, three defensemen, and seven forwards.
    This time around the teams were only allowed to protect seven forwards, three defencemen, and one goaltender or one goaltender and eight skaters.

    It was done this way to make the team more competitive from the get go. In non traditional markets, no one wants to wait around 5-6 years to have a team that is finally competitive, the city would lose interest quickly like in Atlanta.

    It was suppose to be a team of 3rd liners with a couple of stars sprinkled in instead of a team of plugs. But thanks to teams like Florida Panthers and Minnesota Wild who overvalued their 4th Dman, Vegas was able to pull off a couple of trades to really solidify their team. Add in top tier coaching (once again thank the Panthers) with a couple of breakout seasons and a goaltender with something to prove, they scrapped their way to an amazing season.
  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 386
    edited June 2018
    Trump wanted Russia to join back the G8, all European countries said no.

    Anyway, politics aside why should Russia be in? It's economy is nowhere as powerful as the other members and its growth prospects aren't fantastic, depending on fossil energy sources and these are seemingly meant to decrease in importance globally.

    India, if you ask me, as a much stronger claim. It's the world's second most populated country, has strong growth prospect and is meant to overtake both UK and France in the following years and has a huge internal market. Not to mention cutting edge technologies.
    Post edited by Matthieu on
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2018
    Matthieu said:

    Trump wanted Russia to join back the G8, all European countries said non.

    Anyway, politics aside why should Russia be in? It's economy is nowhere as powerful as the other members and its growth prospects aren't fantastic, depending on fossil energy sources and these are seemingly meant to decrease in importance globally.

    India, if you ask me, as a much stronger claim. It's the world's second most populated country, has strong growth prospect and is meant to overtake both UK and France in the following years and has a huge internal market. Not to mention cutting edge technologies.

    What about Australia? To be honest these days Italy does not belong there they've been kind of a mess for a minute. Great country, but internal struggles, debt, etc problems... Agree about India. Trump only said Russia should be back in because Putin is holding the pee tape over his head probably.
  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 386
    Yeah, India would be a fit replacement for Russia and Australia for Italy.

    However Italy does have the potential for recovery. It's issues are caused by mismanagement, these can be fixed but I don't see it happening soon.
This discussion has been closed.