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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    Meanwhile in Canada:

    The Premier of Nunavut lost a non-confidence vote and will be replaced.

    Nunavut, due to it's size governs and elects both its premiers and cabinet ministers in an unique way. There are no political parties and 22 individuals are elected to the Legislative Assembly.

    After that election, the MLA's take part in a leadership forum where they select the premier, Speaker, and cabinet members in a secret ballot. The government is formed with 7 cabinet ministers and the premier and the other 13 form the opposition.

    After 2 years, the premier and cabinet ministers face a review where they can be replaced, but this vote happened only 7 months in.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2018

    For the record, the reason why the IRS scrutinizes political groups is because non-profit organizations can only claim tax breaks if their activities are non-political. It's illegal for a political organization to claim non-profit status to get tax breaks. Churches and religious organizations also benefit from those tax breaks, but only if they stay out of politics. Once you get involved in politics, you lose access to that tax break.

    The Tea Party, of course, was a political movement from the get-go. Many of its members went on to become politicians. Hence, a Tea Party group could not legally claim that tax break.

    The IRS is required to figure out an organization's purpose before it gives out any tax breaks.

    @semiticgod et al
    Unfortunately, this is not true anymore. Thanks to Trump's Religious Liberty Executive Order.

    On May 4, 2017, President Donald Trump signed an executive order "to defend the freedom of religion and speech" for the purpose of easing the Johnson Amendment's restrictions.[1][2]

    Now we have evangelicals and televangelists feeling emboldened to campaign for the GOP without fear of losing their tax exempt status.

    Franklin Graham for one is stumping for the GOP in all 50 states including his plan to hold rallies in California.
    “Only as we change the heart of the people of California can California go red again.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/27/us/politics/franklin-graham-evangelicals-california.html

    Separation of Church and State Separation of Smurch and Smate, right.

    1) Wagner, John; Pulliam Bailey, Sarah. "Trump signs order aimed at allowing churches to engage in more political activity". The Washington Post. Retrieved 4 May 2017.

    2) "President Donald J. Trump signs the Executive Order on Promoting Free Speech and Religious Liberty and participates in the National Day of Prayer event in the Rose Garden". The White House/Facebook. 43:29
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2018

    The tent city location for the immigrant children appears to be Dyess Air Force Base in Texas (I can't believe I am typing this). Despite the fact that this is going to be done on a military base, I did a cursory Google search of the average summer temperature in Abilene, Texas (since presumabley a tent city will in fact be outdoors). That temperature is between 90-95 degrees.

    Anyone remember when Trump decided to deploy military troops to the border?? Turns out, they aren't actually protecting the border at all, doing such menial work as (no joke) shoveling out manure from the stalls of the border patrol's horses. But the other takeaway is that they don't appear to actually be anywhere near the border at all:

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/06/14/trump-ordered-troops-to-the-border-but-theyre-doing-busywork-218821

    Everything Trump does is surface deep for the cameras and headlines in the moment. In this case, he uprooted the lives and routines of troops for no reason other than making a move to please his anti-immigrant base.

    This is a mural that is in one of Trump’s detention centers for immigrant children. The mural reads: “Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.”

    So he's saying that while his racist wall isn't built, and he keeps losing court cases, at least they can hurt immigrants by attacking their families.
    image

    Post edited by smeagolheart on
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,042

    So he's saying that while his racist wall isn't built, and he keeps losing court cases, at least they can hurt immigrants by attacking their families.

    It isn't mocking them or teasing them. Instead, it is a motivational challenge to the children. Yes, you may have lost the battle--you were separated from your parents--but you can win the war--become a United States citizen, work your butt off, enter politics, get elected to Congress, and reform the immigration laws.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018

    So he's saying that while his racist wall isn't built, and he keeps losing court cases, at least they can hurt immigrants by attacking their families.

    It isn't mocking them or teasing them. Instead, it is a motivational challenge to the children. Yes, you may have lost the battle--you were separated from your parents--but you can win the war--become a United States citizen, work your butt off, enter politics, get elected to Congress, and reform the immigration laws.
    This strikes me as an absurd thing to have on wall greeting an eight-year old who no longer (at the moment) knows where there parents are or if they are ever going to see them again. The best case scenario for these kids is they EVENTUALLY get reunited with their parents after months and get shipped back out of the country, or they maybe end up cycling through foster families for a year. As we know from recent reporting, thousands of them are just flat-out getting LOST. Here are two more stories about these border separations. Unconscionable:

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/12/us/immigration-separated-children-southern-border/index.html

    https://www.texastribune.org/2018/06/13/immigrant-child-asylum-disabilities-separated-grandmother-border/

    Something tells me self-help slogans on a mural with dear leader aren't what these kids are thinking about. There is no reason for this. This is an evil policy. We've dehumanized these people to the point where a large majority of the population thinks this is deserved or that it isn't a big deal. And again, it isn't just happening to people crossing illegally, it is happening to grandmothers and grandchildren seeking asylum. These people are being treated worse than animals, because that is how a certain segment of the US population views them. These kids don't need motivational challenges. They need to be with their parents, who in most cases simply came here fleeing a nightmare and instead were thrown into another one that we are creating for no reason whatsoever. This is what Trump's rhetoric against immigrants has created. The normalization of parent/child separation and camps being set up in the Texas heat to funnel (effectively) kidnapped children into. We are snatching kids away from their parents as a PURELY PUNITIVE measure, and then throwing them in camps or flat-out losing track of them. And this Administration wants to ADD to this situation in every way possible.
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659



    It isn't mocking them or teasing them. Instead, it is a motivational challenge to the children. Yes, you may have lost the battle--you were separated from your parents--but you can win the war--become a United States citizen, work your butt off, enter politics, get elected to Congress, and reform the immigration laws.


    ... that's a reach, in my estimation. Why have a "patriotic" picture of Trump smiling under an American Flag if the message was supposed to galvanize them into changing the system?
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018



    It isn't mocking them or teasing them. Instead, it is a motivational challenge to the children. Yes, you may have lost the battle--you were separated from your parents--but you can win the war--become a United States citizen, work your butt off, enter politics, get elected to Congress, and reform the immigration laws.


    ... that's a reach, in my estimation. Why have a "patriotic" picture of Trump smiling under an American Flag if the message was supposed to galvanize them into changing the system?
    It's one step away from saying to children who have temporarily or perhaps (given the way we are administering this debacle) permanently been orphaned that there is "no use crying over spilled milk". The milk spilled because we snatched it out of your hand and essentially dumped it on your head, but, you know, get over it already. This is the classic American mentality of lecturing people to pull themselves up by the bootstraps when they have no boots to begin with.

    If illegal immigration and keeping these people out is the real issue here, we are we not devoting these resources to expediting the deportations and asylum requests?? Instead we are turning to mass incarceration being run by private companies (in many cases). The desire here is to punish. Crossing the border illegally in most cases is a misdemeanor. So is jaywalking.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    In other news, the Justice Department's inspector general has found that political bias at the FBI did not influence the decision to not indict Clinton. They just released the report.

    Republican politicians have said the report proves the exact opposite.

    I do not see why people would call for this investigation to be conducted just so they could reject its conclusions when it came out.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    The Republican Immigration Bill sounds godawful

    It seems they intentionally filled it with terrible terrible awful stuff, then when it fails they'll go say "see the democrats don't like DACA!" when that is such a tiny part of it it's not even a part of it basically. It's disingenuous to call it a DACA bill. It's not, it's an anti-immigration bill.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/gop-daca-draft/index.html
    Lowlights:
    - $25 billion for border security including the President's wall
    - An end to the diversity visa lottery
    - Massive cuts to family-based visas
    - Allowing for the lengthy detention of undocumented immigrations awaiting deportation
    - Making it harder for individuals to pursue asylum in the US.
    - The bill might be advertised to overturn a settlement agreement that children cannot be detained more than three weeks so that families are kept together, but instead would make it so entire families to be detained indefinitely. The Trump administration policy that is being used as an excuse for family separations is that children cannot follow their parents into the criminal justice system so that's why children and parents are separated, this is not changed.
    - Several provisions that would require cities to comply with federal immigration enforcement requests and would allow victims of violent crimes committed by undocumented immigrants to sue the cities where they happened, an attempt to crack down on sanctuary cities. Immigration is a federal Responsibility per the Constitution but don't let that get in the way of your race baiting and fear mongering, Republicans.


    Highlights
    -a path to citizenship for DACA recipients (great) through a program that would be a merit-based point system (aww) and would allow other immigrants to attain permanent status alongside DACA recipients (great)

    -----------------------------------------

    Oh and by the way a Republican House of Representatives member said on video:
    "There aren't enough white kids to go around ... immigration is politically destabilizing ... immigration today represents an existential threat to the United States. If we don't do something about immigration very, very soon the demographics of our country will be irrevocably changed and we will be a very different country."
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/14/politics/arizona-lawmaker-white-kids-immigration/index.html

    -----------------------------------------

    The country's racists, all of whom are identifying as conservatives and Republicans, seem to feel free to let their hatred spew these days. An effect of Donald J. "Mexicans are Rapists" Trump. If I was a Conservative, I'd be concerned about identifying as a part of a racist organization.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    edited June 2018
    I just read a fuller account of the DoJ report into Comey's handling of the Clinton emails. What I hadn't realized before this was that Comey made regular use of a private gmail account to handle official FBI correspondence ;).

    In itself I don't think that's a big deal. I work mainly from home and have found various reasons over the years to occasionally use a private address for work matters, so I appreciate why others may have done so. My experience is, I think, the norm rather than something unusual with the majority of politicians and officials using private emails on at least some occasions - see this story for instance. While it's no surprise to see hypocrisy on a party political basis, I do think Comey had a particular cheek to be so publicly critical of Clinton's handling of her emails given what he was doing himself.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    In other news, the Justice Department's inspector general has found that political bias at the FBI did not influence the decision to not indict Clinton. They just released the report.

    Republican politicians have said the report proves the exact opposite.

    I do not see why people would call for this investigation to be conducted just so they could reject its conclusions when it came out.

    Nearly every revelation that comes out about the FBI turns out to be the exact opposite of what they said it would be, yet for some reason, every time they are still given credibility talking about the subject. In this case (for what I believe is now the 3rd time), the only one with a gripe here is Hillary Clinton and those who voted for her, yet they are the only ones defending the Justice Department. Pretty telling. Every liberal feels betrayed by Comey for his handling of the email investigation, yet still defends his integrity because of the situation and what transpired after Trump took office. Trump did not fire Comey because of his unfair treatment of Hillary Clinton. Period.
  • semiticgoddesssemiticgoddess Member Posts: 14,903
    For the record, Comey has stated that he never used his personal email for classified or sensitive messages, which was a primary complaint about Clinton's private server. That being said, Clinton herself made the exact same claim and that's been heavily disputed.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Grond0 said:

    I just read a fuller account of the DoJ report into Comey's handling of the Clinton emails. What I hadn't realized before this was that Comey made regular use of a private gmail account to handle official FBI correspondence ;).

    In itself I don't think that's a big deal. I work mainly from home and have found various reasons over the years to occasionally use a private address for work matters, so I appreciate why others may have done so. My experience is, I think, the norm rather than something unusual with the majority of politicians and officials using private emails on at least some occasions - see this story for instance. While it's no surprise to see hypocrisy on a party political basis, I do think Comey had a particular cheek to be so publicly critical of Clinton's handling of her emails given what he was doing himself.

    No one cared about the emails. No one even knows what that "scandal" was even about, and 99% of people couldn't possibly explain it to you. Mike Pence, Jared and Ivanka have all been revealed to have been in use of private email communications since and no one has raised an eyebrow.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850

    For the record, Comey has stated that he never used his personal email for classified or sensitive messages, which was a primary complaint about Clinton's private server. That being said, Clinton herself made the exact same claim and that's been heavily disputed.

    The end result is this: the investigation into Hillary was given massive media attention based on comments from the FBI itself and a reopening of an investigation into certain duplicate emails was revealed against protocol days before the election because Comey was afraid of right-wing factions in the NY office leaking it. Meanwhile the massive, still ongoing investigation into Trump's entire campaign was kept secret. The FBI is the only reason he is President, yet he still insists he is the one who is being treated unfairly.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457

    For the record, Comey has stated that he never used his personal email for classified or sensitive messages, which was a primary complaint about Clinton's private server. That being said, Clinton herself made the exact same claim and that's been heavily disputed.

    I did consider addressing this, but my memory is too poor to reliably recall all the details and I couldn't be bothered to research it again. As you say Comey's excuse is just the same as Clinton's. Subject to correction by others I think the FBI findings were something like:
    - 30,000 emails investigated.
    - 3 of those technically had classified information in the body of the email, though none of those stated in the header they were classified (which procedure required them to). Nor was there in fact any need for any of those to be classified (so unless you noticed the small c next to a paragraph and recognized what it meant you wouldn't realize there was any problem when reading the email).

    Comey's assessment of Clinton was that her actions were not against the law and did not risk the publication of information that needed to be kept secret. However, her actions were against Departmental procedure and he was very critical of that. What I find a bit difficult to stomach is him now saying that because his own actions were not against the law and did not risk the publication of information that needed to kept secret - hey there's no problem there.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018
    Grond0 said:

    For the record, Comey has stated that he never used his personal email for classified or sensitive messages, which was a primary complaint about Clinton's private server. That being said, Clinton herself made the exact same claim and that's been heavily disputed.

    I did consider addressing this, but my memory is too poor to reliably recall all the details and I couldn't be bothered to research it again. As you say Comey's excuse is just the same as Clinton's. Subject to correction by others I think the FBI findings were something like:
    - 30,000 emails investigated.
    - 3 of those technically had classified information in the body of the email, though none of those stated in the header they were classified (which procedure required them to). Nor was there in fact any need for any of those to be classified (so unless you noticed the small c next to a paragraph and recognized what it meant you wouldn't realize there was any problem when reading the email).

    Comey's assessment of Clinton was that her actions were not against the law and did not risk the publication of information that needed to be kept secret. However, her actions were against Departmental procedure and he was very critical of that. What I find a bit difficult to stomach is him now saying that because his own actions were not against the law and did not risk the publication of information that needed to kept secret - hey there's no problem there.
    Comey sent out a tweet saying today saying that even though he disagreed with some of the findings, he also said that he accepted them and thanked the watch dog office for their work. It was fairly magnanimous all things considered.
  • deltagodeltago Member Posts: 7,811
    my internet is acting up, but that Trump mural came from a Washington Post article. The place also has a mural of Obama with the words "My fellow Americans, we are and always will be a nation of immigrants. We were strangers once, too.”


    Also this tiny tidbit

    Southwest Key has long sheltered teens who arrived at the border alone, and such youths make up the largest group in Casa Padre. The typically younger children who have been separated from their parents make up about 5 percent of residents at Casa Padre and 10 percent of all Southwest Key residents, Sanchez estimated.

    It is a fascinating read about what actually transpire there during a day. It does seem like the staff do care about the children that are brought into their care but there are a lot of head scratchers such as only 2 hours a day outside.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018
    deltago said:

    my internet is acting up, but that Trump mural came from a Washington Post article. The place also has a mural of Obama with the words "My fellow Americans, we are and always will be a nation of immigrants. We were strangers once, too.”


    Also this tiny tidbit

    Southwest Key has long sheltered teens who arrived at the border alone, and such youths make up the largest group in Casa Padre. The typically younger children who have been separated from their parents make up about 5 percent of residents at Casa Padre and 10 percent of all Southwest Key residents, Sanchez estimated.

    It is a fascinating read about what actually transpire there during a day. It does seem like the staff do care about the children that are brought into their care but there are a lot of head scratchers such as only 2 hours a day outside.

    2 hours a day outside is what happens at a Supermax prison. And there is a difference between kids who are showing up at the border alone and the fact that we are now PURPOSEFULLY separating them and creating what will amount to thousands more of these children cut off from their parents. Illegal entries, asylum seekers, it doesn't seem to matter. This is being done on purpose, as policy. Jeff Sessions was bragging about it as recently as a month ago. Now they are pretending there is some kind of law that requires this to be taking place, which is a flat-out lie. A tent city is going to be erected in Texas because of this. Again, if the actual worry here is about illegal immigration, then the focus would be on expediting immigration and asylum hearings post-haste. Instead, we are engaging in mass incarceration of people who are, AT MOST, likely guilty of a misdemeanor (and again, some are making asylum claims), and holding them and their children without trial for months at a time in detention camps. And then we are losing about 20% of the children as they are sent to all corners of the country. This is an atrocity. It was bad before, but now it is a full-on situation of straight-up human rights abuses. Frankly, other countries should think about sanctioning us for this behavior.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited June 2018

    In other news, the Justice Department's inspector general has found that political bias at the FBI did not influence the decision to not indict Clinton. They just released the report.

    Republican politicians have said the report proves the exact opposite.

    I do not see why people would call for this investigation to be conducted just so they could reject its conclusions when it came out.

    Republican politicians are now more than ever spinning everything. They spin tales so far that they are basically unable to tell the truth about anything or even the simplest things. Nothing can happen without a Republican politician or a right wing talking head lying about it. It's impossible.

    Examples - Jeff Sessions is breaking up families because of Obama's rules (Obama didn't have this policy). Trump ended DACA but something something Democrats ended DACA (what?). Mitch McConnell said he's canceled the August Senate Recess due to unprecedented Democrat obstruction - no he's not doing it for that reason because Mitch McConnell blocked a Supreme Court nominee for over a year that's unprecented obstruction. He really canceled it to not let Democrats, way more of whom are up for reelection, campaign.

    They all lie lie lie lie and are backed up by lying apologists on right wing media. Can't acknowledge anything.

    It's ridiculous. Of course Republican politicians are going to cherry pick this report to fit their alternative reality that they will push.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,042



    It isn't mocking them or teasing them. Instead, it is a motivational challenge to the children. Yes, you may have lost the battle--you were separated from your parents--but you can win the war--become a United States citizen, work your butt off, enter politics, get elected to Congress, and reform the immigration laws.


    ... that's a reach, in my estimation. Why have a "patriotic" picture of Trump smiling under an American Flag if the message was supposed to galvanize them into changing the system?
    It appears that everyone missed my sarcasm filter. That is a shame.

    The continued policy of separating children from parents is going to come back to bite the Trump Administration in the butt. Sure, the economy may be doing well, unemployment/labor force participation numbers might be good, and foreign policy might be a bit of a mixed bag right now but the separation issue is going to galvanize people to oppose the Administration. The question is "which issue is going to influence people's vote this coming November?".

    *************

    As I have said before, Comey should never have gone public over the e-mail server issue like he did. He made the wrong call, end of story. The rest of it boils down to "not much to see here". In my opinion, we should be able to end the chapter about the FBI at this point.
  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 386
    Trump about to pull out of the UN's Human Right Council.
  • MatthieuMatthieu Member Posts: 386
    25% tariffes on 50 billions worth of goods from China, mostly high tech.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited June 2018
    Matthieu said:

    Trump about to pull out of the UN's Human Right Council.

    When you are kidnapping children and throwing them in camps, this makes a hell of alot of sense. But this has been a right-wing goal for years in this country.

    He is saying the IG report from yesterday "exonerates" him, which is just another flat-out lie (it doesn't even approach doing so, or even address that issue at all). He says Comey broke the law, when the report says no such thing.

    He continues to insist the family separation is a "Democratic law". This is complete horsehit. It is NOT TRUE. And aside from how horrible the actions are, what is really starting to piss me off is that he and Sessions won't even take responsibility for a policy they know damn well they initiated. We know this because Sessions was bragging about it less than a month ago. So they KNOW the optics of it are bad, but they want to continue to do it. The solution?? Lie about the other party and say THEY did it, when that is simply not true. Lying is one thing, how are you supposed to combat someone who lies about EVERYTHING if a large amount of people believe it sight unseen??
  • BallpointManBallpointMan Member Posts: 1,659



    It appears that everyone missed my sarcasm filter. That is a shame.

    Haha. Completely and totally(for me), evidently.

    I suppose in the current political climate, in which some parts of the Alt-right want to defend nazis in good faith, one cannot be too sure anymore.

    Sorry for the swing-and-miss on my part!
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    Matthieu said:

    Trump about to pull out of the UN's Human Right Council.

    When you are kidnapping children and throwing them in camps, this makes a hell of alot of sense. But this has been a right-wing goal for years in this country.

    He is saying the IG report from yesterday "exonerates" him, which is just another flat-out lie (it doesn't even approach doing so, or even address that issue at all). He says Comey broke the law, when the report says no such thing.

    He continues to insist the family separation is a "Democratic law". This is complete horsehit. It is NOT TRUE. And aside from how horrible the actions are, what is really starting to piss me off is that he and Sessions won't even take responsibility for a policy they know damn well they initiated. We know this because Sessions was bragging about it less than a month ago. So they KNOW the optics of it are bad, but they want to continue to do it. The solution?? Lie about the other party and say THEY did it, when that is simply not true. Lying is one thing, how are you supposed to combat someone who lies about EVERYTHING if a large amount of people believe it sight unseen??
    I'm pretty sure this is the kind of crap people have to put up with in China. The government party says something that's obviously a lie but there's nothing you can do.

    Politicians lie, that's not new, but what is new is the degree. There's no truth with Trump and the Republican party these days.

    It used to be politicians just made promises you didn't 100% expect them to keep after they were elected. Trump and Republicans will swear the sky is purple. Totally disgusting. "middle class tax cuts" yeah right disgusting liars.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    Matthieu said:

    25% tariffes on 50 billions worth of goods from China, mostly high tech.

    At least Trump has achieved something here by blurring party lines for once - plenty of support for his tariffs from Democrats and opposition from Republicans.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Citation needed for Democratic party support for Trumps trade wars.

    Because -
    Democrats pounce on Trump trade war in midterms
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/14/trump-tariffs-trade-war-644719
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,042


    Haha. Completely and totally(for me), evidently.

    I suppose in the current political climate, in which some parts of the Alt-right want to defend nazis in good faith, one cannot be too sure anymore.

    Sorry for the swing-and-miss on my part!

    No worries. There have indeed been too many instances of followed by "it was just a joke" lately, not to mention trolls being trolls to the point where people are publicly leaving social media accounts because they cannot take it any more.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457

    Citation needed for Democratic party support for Trumps trade wars.

    Because -
    Democrats pounce on Trump trade war in midterms
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/14/trump-tariffs-trade-war-644719

    Well even the article you posted refers to some Democratic support for the tariffs, but I was picking up on the quote included here from Chuck Schumer that the president's actions were "on the money". I wasn't suggesting that all Democrats supported the tariffs, just that the issue wasn't being fought on party lines to the extent of most others recently.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,457
    Manafort's bail has been revoked due to the witness tampering charges we posted about a while ago.
This discussion has been closed.