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The more I play this, the more I feel like giving up.

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  • FrecheFreche Member Posts: 473
    edited July 2014
    As a first play through I wouldn't advice playing solo, some fights will become extremely hard without good knowledge of the game.

    I also would advise against Rasaad and Neera. Monks are quite weak in the early levels (entire BG1 is early levels) and Wild mages are too unreliable until you are more confident in the game.
    Instead go for the classic party of Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir.

    Even with a full party you wont need much micromanagement, equip Dynaheir with a sling, Imoen with a bow, yourself with a ranged weapon for the early levels then when you are level 4+ swap for melee (since you have great stats for melee). You get a long way with just autoattacks, use spells for hard encounters or when faced against great numbers.

    When it comes to the magic part I prefer to make my mages tanks (the defensive buffs they can cast are incredible but often only selfcast) but I wouldn't suggest that for a first playthrough.

    My suggestion of magic spells in BG1 for a novice:
    Level 1: Sleep, Magic Missile, Identify
    Level 2: Invisibility, Knock, (Resist Fear if you don't have a divine caster)
    Level 3: Fireball, Haste
    Level 4: Improved Invisibility
    Level 5: Cloudkill

    Sleep is only useful in the early part of the game but during that time it's the best spell you can fill your level 1 spell page with.

    As for divine powers I think they are a bit more limited, here is my suggestion:
    Level 1: Remove Fear, Command, Cure Light Wounds
    Level 2: Slow Poison
    Level 3: Dispel Magic (be careful it will dispel your buffs too)
    Level 4: Cure Serious Wounds

    Despite the name you can cast Remove Fear prior to being feared and be protected against it.

    There are other spells that are great too but there is a select few to start with that will help you throughout the game.

    nosecret
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    The evil NPCs are considerably better than the cannon party. You justvhave to keep your reputation well below 18, or people leave. I think over 6 is good to avoid Flamming Fist attack groups.

    Evil has the best arcane by leaps and bounds, two good thief options early (Shar-teel and Montaron), the best tank, a REALLY good cleric (probably the best) and another you can dual eventually (Xzar is a bloody good caster dualled), a very decent archer (Shar-teel, but you will have to put pips, but shes a beast), and they have the best bard... which is really not saying much. Biggest weakness is the lack of a pure thief, but Safana fits in well. And Shar dualled is a beast.

    Imho, first a player SHOULD bumble around, then restart and min/max powergame to get a good grasp of strstegy, then try out suboptimal builds. I think I first tried a bard, lol. Went poorly! Had to abandon that attempt. Many players are not going to have much fun learning via a really crummy character imo.

    LemernisGotural
  • nosecretnosecret Member Posts: 92
    DreadKhan said:

    The evil NPCs are considerably better than the cannon party. You justvhave to keep your reputation well below 18, or people leave. I think over 6 is good to avoid Flamming Fist attack groups.

    Evil has the best arcane by leaps and bounds, two good thief options early (Shar-teel and Montaron), the best tank, a REALLY good cleric (probably the best) and another you can dual eventually (Xzar is a bloody good caster dualled), a very decent archer (Shar-teel, but you will have to put pips, but shes a beast), and they have the best bard... which is really not saying much. Biggest weakness is the lack of a pure thief, but Safana fits in well. And Shar dualled is a beast.

    Imho, first a player SHOULD bumble around, then restart and min/max powergame to get a good grasp of strstegy, then try out suboptimal builds. I think I first tried a bard, lol. Went poorly! Had to abandon that attempt. Many players are not going to have much fun learning via a really crummy character imo.

    I want to say my first character in the BG series (in my case, BG2) was a mage with like 9 CON (hey, I didn't know what I was doing). I must have died like 25 times before getting out of Irenicus' dungeon "... frakkin' flaming arrow plinking kobold sunofa...gahhh!" Still played it up until about half of the Athkatla side quests were completed before I figured out it was time to reroll :D

  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    While what @DreadKhan said is essentially correct, I wouldn't personally suggest playing with an Evil party for your first play through ever. Technically they are more powerful. However, in order to leverage that extra power, an evil party will have to (a) micro-managing your reputation which can be problematic since the game is skewed towards being a hero, and (b) know what spells to use that MAKE the evil guys more powerful. I suppose a (c) would be functionally know how/when to change Shar-teel into thief and how to manage that whole process (or Xzar to cleric if you want that), and that opens up the whole dual/multiple class thing.

    Best to simply go with good(ish) stats, crank the difficulty back a bit and just explore/have fun with the game. That's the best of all possible worlds. Realize that you aren't going to see/do everything but will learn what to do better the next play through.

    All IMHO.

    atcDaveLemernis
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806

    meagloth said:

    Well, no wonder you're having a hard time. Those stats are terrible. You need to max strength, constitution, and dexterity. You don't actually need *any* charisma, intelligence, or wisdom, especially for bg1.

    Um???? No. You don't. what is being described is a MIN/MAX and is not in any shape or form "Necessary" to have fun.

    Yes, "High" strength. Sure high CON is nice to have. MIN/MAX is NOT a requirement to play or have fun.
    @subtledoctor‌ ok, I don't mean "need" obviously. If anyone knows we don't need to min-max, it's me, ok? I'm just say that for this character, at this ability, you should do this to make it easier. I didn't say you have to have high stats to have fun, either. (I don't usually play above a 90-roll, though I'll take it of I get one) @InvictusCobra‌ is having a hard time, and min-maxing would make it easier.

    Demonoid_Limewire
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @meagloth - not to beat a dead horse here, but you did say "you need" in your statement before. And given that this IS the OP's very first experience not only with BG but also with the D&D rules and they are asking for help, using language like that is likely to lead someone to believe that you can't play or win without it. So, minor slip. Just wanted to make it clear.

    Additionally, it's a pretty slippery slope even if you are maxing only STR and CON and 'Dumping' CHA "To make it easier". Might as well tell them to go farm Basilisks first (which you also did). These, while they make the game easier, aren't really allowing the player to experience the game in it's true form. Nor are they necessary to (a) have fun, or (b) complete the game. They are exploits which quickly bulk up your character. And while that can be fun; it should be (in my mind) relegated to "once you have actually made it through the game a few times".

    Best case scenario for the OP would be to take whatever character, crank back the difficulty a bit, pick up a full compliment of characters (including a minimum of 1 thief, 1 cleric (or druid) and 1 wizard) and to explore the gamescape. In that they will learn what works in the game and what doesn't.

    Not to mention that Min/Maxing and speed leveling really leave you handicapped in the learning curve as you don't have that trial and error experience because you are Loads more powerful and just wrecking everything that you encounter. There are loads of strategies that I would never have thought of if it hadn't been a little bit tough. Just sayin.

    atcDave
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2014
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    the_spyder
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    I am currently playing Dark Souls. I am not sure what people here think of that as a Role Playing game, but it absolutely gets me of the mind of thinking that "If you don't progress through the game, you won't learn HOW to progress further." Every challenge prepares you for the next. if you don't learn to dodge and just wear heavy armor, you are gonna die. If you don't figure out what to upgrade and simply upgrade everything, you will not know what to wear against what enemy. Just sayin.

    One thing I wanted to add to my previous post. The OP shouldn't be afraid of dying and having to reload. As a first time player, that will happen a fair amount. That's PART of the game. If at first you don't succeed, you can try again with a different strategy. That will SOOOO help when they get to BG2 and some of THOSE fights.

    FinneousPJterzaerian
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806

    These, while they make the game easier, aren't really allowing the player to experience the game in it's true form.

    Well, clearly he tried that and dint like it. I'm just trying to offer some alternatives so he can enjoy the game himself. The way you like to play(and most off us here) is clearly very different than the kind of play invictuscobra enjoys.

    That aside, at three pages we've probably out-adviced InvictusCobra with all our conflicting ideas. I have said what I needed to say, and I am done here.

    Demonoid_Limewire
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @meagloth - if someone is learning to ride a bicycle for the first time, they will fall down a fair few times. They will probably complain about it as well. Showing them how they can merely switch to a 4 wheel vehicle 'Because it is easier' isn't doing them any favors.

    terzaerian
  • InvictusCobraInvictusCobra Member Posts: 108
    meagloth said:



    Well, clearly he tried that and dint like it. I'm just trying to offer some alternatives so he can enjoy the game himself. The way you like to play(and most off us here) is clearly very different than the kind of play invictuscobra enjoys.

    That aside, at three pages we've probably out-adviced InvictusCobra with all our conflicting ideas. I have said what I needed to say, and I am done here.


    Well, it's not like I can't enjoy/clear a very hard game. I loved Dark Souls, XCOM Enemy Unknown and my most recent "achievment" was clearing Witcher 2 on Insane(Permadeath). In terms of old RPGs, I loved Fallout 1 and 2.My problem with BG is that I feel that the leveling is too slow and I wasn't getting pulled into the game enough to invest in it's difficulty. Oh and I forgot to mention: This time I'm playing on Normal and not Core.That random HP gain per level is a bit too much for my wagon.

    jackjackAristillius
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    @the_spyder‌ I would argue that evil has way less need to worry about 'which spells'... Dorn straight up outclasses Minsc, Kagain is better defensively (saves and HP... so much save boni!), Edwin gets extra spells while being durable for a mage, and Baeloth just gets the best spells more or less. Viconia arguably wanys duhm, but shes decent without.

    I think I agree with Meagloth that we shouldnt info dump too badly. Invictus knows where to ask questions.

    If you read this though, @InvictusCobra‌ consider keeping extra saves kicking around first time through. Keep a save for each chapter, and anywhere else you think you're making a big choice. It'll make life easier, and at this point you dont likely want to get screwed over by a bad decision. There arent TOO many, but I recommend you do this on your first playthrough.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2014
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    DreadKhanjackjack
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    @DreadKhan - all of what you say is true. Evil is stronger in almost all fronts. however, knowing how to use them takes learning and experience, particularly with regards to spell choices (sorcerers MOST particularly). And add on to that the fact that if you simply play the game as normal, your reputation will very quickly hit 19-20 and then they leave. Playing Evil has it's downfalls. Personally I LOVE to do that. Playing for my first playthrough ever? I'd have gotten hosed very quickly. That's all I am saying.

    CrevsDaakLemernis
  • rufus_hobartrufus_hobart Member Posts: 490
    Quite honestly? I think I'd just give up, it's obviously making you frustrated angry and bored, all the things that a good game is supposed to combat. You gave it a go, and it's just not for you, but hey, at least now you can stand out from the crowd when they start rabbiting on about the BG series and how wonderful it is, you can have your own opinion and declaim them as being rubbish in your experienced opinion! A little non-conformity is never a bad thing when it comes to opinions.

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806

    meagloth said:



    Well, clearly he tried that and dint like it. I'm just trying to offer some alternatives so he can enjoy the game himself. The way you like to play(and most off us here) is clearly very different than the kind of play invictuscobra enjoys.

    That aside, at three pages we've probably out-adviced InvictusCobra with all our conflicting ideas. I have said what I needed to say, and I am done here.


    Well, it's not like I can't enjoy/clear a very hard game. I loved Dark Souls, XCOM Enemy Unknown and my most recent "achievment" was clearing Witcher 2 on Insane(Permadeath). In terms of old RPGs, I loved Fallout 1 and 2.My problem with BG is that I feel that the leveling is too slow and I wasn't getting pulled into the game enough to invest in it's difficulty. Oh and I forgot to mention: This time I'm playing on Normal and not Core.That random HP gain per level is a bit too much for my wagon.
    Well, kudos to you for persistence. You'll get it eventually of you really want to. 2e's a b*tch.

    Demonoid_Limewire
  • GKL206GKL206 Member Posts: 75
    edited July 2014
    DreadKhan said:



    If you read this though, @InvictusCobra‌ consider keeping extra saves kicking around first time through. Keep a save for each chapter, and anywhere else you think you're making a big choice. It'll make life easier, and at this point you dont likely want to get screwed over by a bad decision. There arent TOO many, but I recommend you do this on your first playthrough.

    That's an absolutely vital piece of advice, so I'm picking it out a second time so it doesn't get lost in the crowd.
    Having saves you can go back to like "entered Nashkell" or "booted out Xzar for Edwin" makes mistakes far easier to bear.
    Oh and take your time: an easy way to spoil the experience is to spend all your time thinking 'I've got to find x' and missing the things that are going on around you because you're so focused on your target. Don't just stress about the destination, enjoy the journey. As part of that only use a walkthough if you've been stuck for ages and are tearing your hair out: I watched a "Let's Play" on Youtube where a guy ruined his first time with the game because he spent all his time looking for the next main quest step and didn't appreciate any of the funny and quirky stuff which makes the game so much fun and so special.
    So relax and take your time - it's much more fun that way.

    Post edited by GKL206 on
    jackjackterzaerianArdul
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,645
    edited July 2014
    Another thought going through my head is that the game can seem rather simple and mundane until you actually GET to Baldur's Gate, and it takes alot of traveling more than anything else. BG1 is really a adventure story in the truest sense of the word, and everything will seem random and disconnected until you get to the city. Once you reach Baldur's Gate and the plot starts to tighten up a bit you will begin the see the beginnings of the epic story that is in store throughout the entire series. Your excursions in the mines and the various wilderness along the Sword Coast is really your training. Don't rush it, the levels and items you pick up with help you immensely once you reach the later points in the game.

    Edit: Normal will make things easier for you for sure, and if it's what brings you into the game I'm all for it. Core rules basically add to replay value and add a touch of randomization to each adventure. I never play above core, I like a moderate challenge but have no desire to beat my head against the wall, there are too many things to try.

  • AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
    Good luck finding out about it. What makes BG enjoyable for me is getting engrossed in the story/scenario.

    abacusjackjack
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    Yeah, if you prefer having a smaller party, that's fine. Many people enjoy playing with a smaller party, because it's easier to manage.

    meaglothjackjack
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,645

    So now I'm in Chapter 3 before going to any of the bandit areas, explored most of the south region to level and entertain myself and found some funny quests. I got so scared when that huge demon appeared after saving that dog, Jesus.... Anyway, I cleared the Gnoll Stronghold with the party I've been maintaining (Charname,Jaheira,Khalid,Imoen) and now I don't know if I should pick up Dynaheir and Minsc due to thinning XP even more and my party being mostly level 3 and them being one level below. I'm making ends meet without much difficulty with a 4 people party, so don't know if going full 6 will be needed. I'll rescue Dynaheir either way for XP, but don't know if she and Minsc should tag along.

    Just to let you know (and since you have gotten your feet wet) the party you are running with and the two characters you are thinking of picking up ARE actually the canon (lorewise) party that is meant to be played with the first time around, all things going the right way. It covers every basic thing you need. If you are feeling comfortable with the 4, pick up those two. They are a team, Minsc is a beast and one of the most beloved characters in the series. Dynaheir is perfectly capable mage, and believe me, you want a mage if for nothing else but the sleep and blind spells.

    My suggestion?? Get Minsc dual-wielding a weapon-type he is proficient in, give Dynaheir a sling and some bullets and set her script so she doesn't engage in melee, keep her in back. Place Minsc right in the middle of your party as he dishes out alot of pain but is squishy until you can get him some full plate. Go from there.

  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    In reality there's plenty of XP for 6 people, although the fact you and Jaheira are multi classed will make a bit of a difference.
    You will want some magic at some point, and Dynaheir's a decent source for that... Even if you just stick to the simple stuff like Identify, Magic Missile and Fireball.

    Glad to hear you're sticking with it. :)

    meaglothjackjack
  • InvictusCobraInvictusCobra Member Posts: 108

    Dynaheir is perfectly capable mage, and believe me, you want a mage if for nothing else but the sleep and blind spells.

    give Dynaheir a sling and some bullets and set her script so she doesn't engage in melee, keep her in back.

    Well, I'm already doing all that with Imoen, as I have dual classed her as a Mage and she's pretty much doing the "pop Sleep and Blindness (preferably after Jaheira's Doom) and stick with a sling." Though two mages could be profitable since one could manage offense and disables while another manages buffs...

    abacusjackjackArdul
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Many players like having two mages for justbthst reason. Doubling up on a Web spell is REALLY nasty. Not much can manage both saves at a penalty

    One way this game hooks you is that you're galivanting around and stumble on something fascinsting or funny. Then you explore a bit looking for more... did you meet a tough talking bravo calling him self Zal, and dreaming himself a fast hand with the darts?

    meaglothterzaerian
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308


    Dynaheir is perfectly capable mage, and believe me, you want a mage if for nothing else but the sleep and blind spells.

    give Dynaheir a sling and some bullets and set her script so she doesn't engage in melee, keep her in back.

    Well, I'm already doing all that with Imoen, as I have dual classed her as a Mage and she's pretty much doing the "pop Sleep and Blindness (preferably after Jaheira's Doom) and stick with a sling." Though two mages could be profitable since one could manage offense and disables while another manages buffs...
    Oh, cool. That's a smart move with a F/T mainchar.

    jackjackMarky
  • GKL206GKL206 Member Posts: 75
    Better to stick with a full six characters on a first play through IMO: some of the later battles get pretty tough and it would be really frustrating for you to get 90% of the way through the game and then find that final bit impossible.

    jackjackterzaerian
  • terzaerianterzaerian Member Posts: 231
    edited July 2014


    Oh yeah, that guy. The Winter Wolf that came in between us was harder than those two guys.Getting 500g for a pelt seems a bit much though.So far, the worst encounters have been Mulahey and 3 Hobgoblin Elites and 2 Ogre Berserkers (the 2nd one was really scary, Khalid nearly died!).

    The Elite hob / Ogre berserkers are one of the toughest trash mob combos in the early game - by themselves they're easy because you can get up in the hob's face right away so he can't keep using those damn poisoned arrows, or you can kite an ogre berserker around... but together, it's a miserable fight. You need to divide them up as much as possible, which means using fast bait to lure those damn ogres away.

    Winter wolves are easy, though. Close fast with melee fighters to keep them from using that nasty ice breath. 500g to a 10lb pelt is just about the best value/weight ratios in the game.

    In general, if you have someone that can stealth, use them! Especially going in blind, having some idea of what's over the next bridge without engaging them is invaluable.

    Also, it's not about the number in your party that matters - it's the number of tactical options. Often a party of three multi-classed can be as effective as a party of six; it all depends on the width and depth of the tactical options they give you. The early game is the most difficult because your options are the most limited - generally just "hit things with your weapon," heal, and repeat. As more AoE damage/denial spells open up with other crowd-control options it not only gets easier but more entertaining.

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