The big problem with a small party is if you're facing six powerful opponents & they incapacitate a couple of your characters quickly (which can happen) you're very short of options. So I'd say for an inexperienced player you need all six so you have reserves if things go wrong.
@InvictusCobra, as soon as Imoen gets her mage level one level higher than her former thief level, she will be able to use shortbow again. I'd put her back on shortbow as soon as she can pick it up again - the shortbow is a more effective weapon than the sling - it gets an extra attack per round and a d6 for damage instead of a d4. A mage that can use a shortbow is a wonderful thing.
I'm glad that you seem to be having a bit more fun with it now. The best thing you could have done was to restart with a new character as soon as your frustration level got too high. It's amazing how much more fun it can be to run through the starting material of a new game a second time, because the first time you are overwhelmed with new information and choices to make, and not knowing what to do or where to go. The second time, you can relax and enjoy, and you've picked up enough skill and knowledge to make better choices and to stop feeling overwhelmed.
I felt like at first, most people were assuming that you were struggling with the difficulty curve, and started advising you accordingly, when what you really said was that you weren't having any fun, and that the game was failing to motivate you to learn the mechanics.
I've recently had that exact same experience with another game, and as you, was ready to quit, but then I restarted from the beginning, and read some online maps and walkthroughs to learn the tricks on some parts where I got stuck, and it started to become fun after that.
Re: party of six, it won't really dilute the XP to a meaningful degree. If you feel comfortable managing six characters it will serve you better for the tougher battles. And you'll get to know two more characters than with a party of four.
With a party of six, you should still hit the XP cap before the end of the game, unless you do an express run and don't explore a bit. The game is designed and balanced around a six man team.
Keep in mind that the fights are strategic and tactical affairs. While you can win them using sheer brute force if you have a powerful enough party, it is entirely possible (and more fun) to get through using lesser characters with some judicious use of tactics.
The key point to remember is that you're trying to deal damage to the enemy without taking any yourself. You shouldn't have to depend on lots of healing (potions, spells, resting) to get through the game because you shouldn't be taking damage on a regular basis.
When approaching any fight, try to think about how you can deal damage without taking any (or much) in return. If the enemy has no ranged weapons and you do, then stand back and use bows and other missile weapons, retreating as they advance. But be careful not to retreat into unexplored territory that might contain another group of enemies. Scout ahead so you know the terrain (stealth is useful here). Some encounters with low-level bands of hobgoblins, xvarts, gnolls, etc. don't pose much of a challenge individually, but they yield little treasure or experience and can wear you down, so avoid them if you can. If the enemy has ranged weapons, try to close with the archers -- especially hobgoblin elites with poisoned arrows. Once you're in melee range, they can't really use their bows, though you can use your archers to perforate them while one or two fighters with good armor keep your opponents engaged in melee. Concentrate on taking out the biggest threats first (mages, archers) by concentrating fire. When facing spellcasters with area of effect spells, spread out your party so they can't all get hit at once. Try to use the terrain to your advantage. When facing large numbers of enemies, try to draw them through a choke point like a doorway so you only have to fight a few at a time.
Learn the tactics of different opponents. Some will attach whomever is closest, switching targets if the distance increases. Others will tend to target one character and pursue them relentlessly. Use these behaviors to your advantage. Sometimes you can draw off one or two from a group and fight them a few at a time (consider using summoned skeletons or charmed animals to keep the rest distracted. Don't underestimate the usefulness of using a ranger's charm animal on even something as lowly as a squirrel to draw enemy attacks). Spells, wands and potions that have an area of effect work best if you can target a group. Once again, stealth can help you scout ahead and, in some cases, launch a devastating area of effect attack against a group that cannot yet see you.
Another thing which affects your subjective experience of how the game plays is the Autopause. No-one else can tell you how to set it, it's purely personal taste but setting it it right for your own taste is key to enjoying the game. As you've wanted fewer characters a couple of times that suggests you to me that you may not have it set to pause enough. The player has a huge range of options with Autopause. Pick too many and the game becomes very bitty and you're constantly hitting the spacebar to do anything: too few and there's too much going on and you feel flustered and overwhelmed, and as you want fewer characters that suggests to me not autopausing enough. (I'd say at the absolute minimum set to pause at 'Enemy sighted', 'Trap sighted' and 'Spell cast'). So do try messing about with Autopause until you find settings that suit you: it makes a huge difference to how the game plays.
Another thing which affects your subjective experience of how the game plays is the Autopause. No-one else can tell you how to set it, it's purely personal taste but setting it it right for your own taste is key to enjoying the game. So do try messing about with Autopause until you find settings that suit you: it makes a huge difference to how the game plays.
Well, I have the canon full party now and I have Autopause set for when a weapon becomes unusable, when an enemy or trap are sighted and at the end of each round. While the 3rd one is a bit annoying, it allows for a better pace in fights and planning.
Well, just entered Chapter IV again (where my 1st character stopped) and things are looking much better.All except Charname and Jaheira's Fighter side are level 5 and I might explore until those are at 5 so I can try Cloakwood. Or should I wait until level 6 and explore the rest of the map? I saw Durlag's Tower and Firewine Bridge were unexplored, but I read the first was a high level gauntlet and I might wait until endgame to go there and do the ToSC bits too.
Well, I have the canon full party now and I have Autopause set for when a weapon becomes unusable, when an enemy or trap are sighted and at the end of each round. While the 3rd one is a bit annoying, it allows for a better pace in fights and planning.
Instead of auto pausing at the end of round, try adding target unavailable and spell cast, in addition to the other settings you have. That way, the game will basically pause whenever you encounter a new threat (trap or enemy) and when one of your characters can no longer continue with what they're doing (when they cast a spell, or when their current target is killed, flees, becomes invisible, etc.)
IMO, the simple fact you told him about the basilisks ruined his game. Because to my mind, the most interesting thing about this game is that you don't know what you will fight. It isn't leveled like Skyrim and that's the beauty of the experience.
To the OP, you now know enough and it looks like you are getting good at the game. I would advise you to stop looking at the forum and to play Baldur's Gate. Maybe you will complete the game with your F/T, maybe you will reroll once again. It's up to you, good luck !
To the OP, you now know enough and it looks like you are getting good at the game. I would advise you to stop looking at the forum and toplay Baldur's Gate. Maybe you will complete the game with your F/T, maybe you will reroll once again. It's up to you, good luck !
I think I'd go along with that too: it sounds like the OP knows enough to be getting on with and the most enjoyable thing for him to do from here on is to play his own game (blind as far as possible from here on), make a few mistakes and learn from them.
Looks like your party is absolutely ready for either Firewine or Cloakwood. I would save the Tower until later, wait until you get the whole story in Ulgoth's Beard. By that time you should be plenty capable.
I'm not sure that telling people about Basilisks is really a terrible spoiler. They're REALLY annoying to run into the first time, downright ridiculous. Save or die effects are not fun, they're annoying.
If you go into Firewine, be cautious. If you can do Cloakwood, you should be able to do Firewine, but its not a very fun Dungeon. Gorgeous scenery, but death waits around every corner. I always prefered Ulcaster's School ruins.
I'm not sure that telling people about Basilisks is really a terrible spoiler. They're REALLY annoying to run into the first time, downright ridiculous. Save or die effects are not fun, they're annoying.
If you go into Firewine, be cautious. If you can do Cloakwood, you should be able to do Firewine, but its not a very fun Dungeon. Gorgeous scenery, but death waits around every corner. I always prefered Ulcaster's School ruins.
Ran into Lesser Basilisks with Protection from Petrification in the book and even then I bolted out of that area XD I managed the Firewine dungeon without much trouble, though it was a pain to go through that maze. The mage outside was the real problem. Had to wait out his buffs, otherwise I would stand no chance, as all the other tries proved. -.-
So I just entered Baldur's Gate! Let's see how the game progresses from here The fights haven't been too tough, but then again now I have a competent damage dealer and mage (or ones that I can use XD) and lowered the difficulty to Normal, albeit the less 25% damage was unnecessary.
By the way, does anyone know the name of the track that plays when one enters the area with the bridge to Baldur's Gate? I can't find it on the OST lists on Youtube.
Keep in mind that the fights are strategic and tactical affairs. While you can win them using sheer brute force if you have a powerful enough party, it is entirely possible (and more fun) to get through using lesser characters with some judicious use of tactics.
This, absolutely.
Having the most powerful character is not really the point. I recently created a half-orc Fighter/Thief with 19 STR, 18 DEX and 19 CON. After a very short while, I got bored of him BLASTING through just about every encounter. And since I knew what I was doing, I DID go off and do Basilisks pretty early on. What was left was like 6th level characters going into Nashkal mines. Mulahay was really not a threat by that point.
Have fun exploring the Gate! Lots of interesting side quests, some 100% optional fetch quests, and oodles of cool encounters. This part of the game has the most variations, different people can have different encounters, and your rep will actually impact things sometimes. If you have space and want a really different npc, you can try Quayle or Tiax. Very cool cats those gnomes, @Anduin
Take Quayle - Every single spell! (nearly) Take Tiax - Can summon a ghoul as a special ability. Trust me. This makes Tiax overly powerful. Take Kagain - Put Bentleys buckler on him and he regenerates. Combine this with a certain sword and you will never need to use a healing spell again. Take Yeslick - In my opinion. Best tank in the game. Take Alora - Lucky... Best thief? Best saves definitely.
The gnomes are that powerful, the game will not allow you to recruit them until late in the game...
@Anduin Kagain doesn't even need Buckley's Buckler to regenerate, yo. It helps speed the process and kicks him up to +6 HP/level, though, so it doesn't hurt!
Umm but yes shorties kick massive ass. I'm with ya there. And you can't forget Montaron! Pity you can't take all the shorties ... but at the same time not, because Yeslick and Kagain fighter each other, as do Tiax and Quayle. Montaron and Alora make passionate love though.*
*I would pay good money to see that just because it's the most unlikely and disgusting thing I've ever heard.
Later on you might start think in "half" classes - I usually want at least 2.5 fighters, 1 archer, 1.5 priests, .5 thief, and 1.5 mages in a party.
Maaaan, what is it with people and only using thieves for picking locks and disarming traps. They're so much more epic than that!
Rangers (esp. stalkers) are better and tougher recon - they can fight and take a beating. I have Kivan kitted as a stalker and it's bananas and we're only at level 5. Set traps are the limburgheriest cheese in the game. At that point the main draw to a thief is picking pockets, which is the most valuable early on (when your pick-pocketing is the least good). Yes thieves get some razzle-dazzling abilities late in the game but so does everyone else, and their ultimate ability (use any item) is pretty much useless to them unless they're multi-classed and specced to use it (someday I'll do the Carsomyr-wielding fighter-thief, someday).
This might explain that, while I quite like BGII, it's not as fun for me as it is for many others; I see having a thief as a necessity for a fun and balanced party. I get bored of playing a thief PC (nearly) every single playthrough. Because I have to, unless I want Jan. I do take him occasionally.
So I just started Chapter VII. Must I immediatly go to Baldur's Gate or can I delay the finale indefinetely? My party's only level 6 currently and I feel like I need to level to max to continue (and I'd like to do ToSC, if possible). Don't know what the max level is though.
You can delay. This is when you're pretty much supposed to do TotSC, so you're on track. Candlekeep was a trip, no? I hope you have gotten a bit more invested in the story at this point. The expansion stuff was well done, should be fun. Watch out for traps in Durlags obviously!
Comments
I'm glad that you seem to be having a bit more fun with it now. The best thing you could have done was to restart with a new character as soon as your frustration level got too high. It's amazing how much more fun it can be to run through the starting material of a new game a second time, because the first time you are overwhelmed with new information and choices to make, and not knowing what to do or where to go. The second time, you can relax and enjoy, and you've picked up enough skill and knowledge to make better choices and to stop feeling overwhelmed.
I felt like at first, most people were assuming that you were struggling with the difficulty curve, and started advising you accordingly, when what you really said was that you weren't having any fun, and that the game was failing to motivate you to learn the mechanics.
I've recently had that exact same experience with another game, and as you, was ready to quit, but then I restarted from the beginning, and read some online maps and walkthroughs to learn the tricks on some parts where I got stuck, and it started to become fun after that.
The key point to remember is that you're trying to deal damage to the enemy without taking any yourself. You shouldn't have to depend on lots of healing (potions, spells, resting) to get through the game because you shouldn't be taking damage on a regular basis.
When approaching any fight, try to think about how you can deal damage without taking any (or much) in return. If the enemy has no ranged weapons and you do, then stand back and use bows and other missile weapons, retreating as they advance. But be careful not to retreat into unexplored territory that might contain another group of enemies. Scout ahead so you know the terrain (stealth is useful here). Some encounters with low-level bands of hobgoblins, xvarts, gnolls, etc. don't pose much of a challenge individually, but they yield little treasure or experience and can wear you down, so avoid them if you can. If the enemy has ranged weapons, try to close with the archers -- especially hobgoblin elites with poisoned arrows. Once you're in melee range, they can't really use their bows, though you can use your archers to perforate them while one or two fighters with good armor keep your opponents engaged in melee. Concentrate on taking out the biggest threats first (mages, archers) by concentrating fire. When facing spellcasters with area of effect spells, spread out your party so they can't all get hit at once. Try to use the terrain to your advantage. When facing large numbers of enemies, try to draw them through a choke point like a doorway so you only have to fight a few at a time.
Learn the tactics of different opponents. Some will attach whomever is closest, switching targets if the distance increases. Others will tend to target one character and pursue them relentlessly. Use these behaviors to your advantage. Sometimes you can draw off one or two from a group and fight them a few at a time (consider using summoned skeletons or charmed animals to keep the rest distracted. Don't underestimate the usefulness of using a ranger's charm animal on even something as lowly as a squirrel to draw enemy attacks). Spells, wands and potions that have an area of effect work best if you can target a group. Once again, stealth can help you scout ahead and, in some cases, launch a devastating area of effect attack against a group that cannot yet see you.
As you've wanted fewer characters a couple of times that suggests you to me that you may not have it set to pause enough. The player has a huge range of options with Autopause. Pick too many and the game becomes very bitty and you're constantly hitting the spacebar to do anything: too few and there's too much going on and you feel flustered and overwhelmed, and as you want fewer characters that suggests to me not autopausing enough. (I'd say at the absolute minimum set to pause at 'Enemy sighted', 'Trap sighted' and 'Spell cast').
So do try messing about with Autopause until you find settings that suit you: it makes a huge difference to how the game plays.
Well, just entered Chapter IV again (where my 1st character stopped) and things are looking much better.All except Charname and Jaheira's Fighter side are level 5 and I might explore until those are at 5 so I can try Cloakwood. Or should I wait until level 6 and explore the rest of the map? I saw Durlag's Tower and Firewine Bridge were unexplored, but I read the first was a high level gauntlet and I might wait until endgame to go there and do the ToSC bits too.
Because to my mind, the most interesting thing about this game is that you don't know what you will fight. It isn't leveled like Skyrim and that's the beauty of the experience.
To the OP, you now know enough and it looks like you are getting good at the game. I would advise you to stop looking at the forum and to play Baldur's Gate. Maybe you will complete the game with your F/T, maybe you will reroll once again. It's up to you, good luck !
If you go into Firewine, be cautious. If you can do Cloakwood, you should be able to do Firewine, but its not a very fun Dungeon. Gorgeous scenery, but death waits around every corner. I always prefered Ulcaster's School ruins.
I managed the Firewine dungeon without much trouble, though it was a pain to go through that maze. The mage outside was the real problem. Had to wait out his buffs, otherwise I would stand no chance, as all the other tries proved. -.-
By the way, does anyone know the name of the track that plays when one enters the area with the bridge to Baldur's Gate? I can't find it on the OST lists on Youtube.
Having the most powerful character is not really the point. I recently created a half-orc Fighter/Thief with 19 STR, 18 DEX and 19 CON. After a very short while, I got bored of him BLASTING through just about every encounter. And since I knew what I was doing, I DID go off and do Basilisks pretty early on. What was left was like 6th level characters going into Nashkal mines. Mulahay was really not a threat by that point.
CON Score Save Bonus
3 ------------------ 0
4 ------------------ 1
5 ------------------ 1
6 ------------------ 1
7 ------------------ 2
8 ------------------ 2
9 ------------------ 2
10 ---------------- 2
11 ---------------- 3
12 ---------------- 3
13 ---------------- 3
14 ---------------- 4
15 ---------------- 4
16 ---------------- 4
17 ---------------- 4
18-25 ----------- 5
Take Quayle - Every single spell! (nearly)
Take Tiax - Can summon a ghoul as a special ability. Trust me. This makes Tiax overly powerful.
Take Kagain - Put Bentleys buckler on him and he regenerates. Combine this with a certain sword and you will never need to use a healing spell again.
Take Yeslick - In my opinion. Best tank in the game.
Take Alora - Lucky... Best thief? Best saves definitely.
The gnomes are that powerful, the game will not allow you to recruit them until late in the game...
Umm but yes shorties kick massive ass. I'm with ya there. And you can't forget Montaron!
*I would pay good money to see that just because it's the most unlikely and disgusting thing I've ever heard.
Otherwise I agree with you on the Shorties, gotta love 'm.
I hoping the power of Montaron is already known to the OP
Now... If he goes with a Gnome multiclass, fighter/illusionist, he will most likely be undefeatable...
0.5 thieves at a maximum, imo.
My party's only level 6 currently and I feel like I need to level to max to continue (and I'd like to do ToSC, if possible). Don't know what the max level is though.