In regards to not being able to hit everything, are you mostly referring to Kangaxx? Because there are only a few weapons that can hit him anyway, so I don't really think that matters much. Having 2 apr from the get go with fists would be pretty nice.
It's not the +X enhancement amount, but the magical status:
A monk fists do not reach Magical status in BG1. They will have to use actual weapons. In BG2, once their fists are considered Magical, Protection from Magic Weapons shuts down their unarmed attacks. They will have to use actual, non-magical, weapons.
As a class that employs this very mechanic, they should understand the necessity of training and preparing for such defenses.
In regards to not being able to hit everything, are you mostly referring to Kangaxx? Because there are only a few weapons that can hit him anyway, so I don't really think that matters much. Having 2 apr from the get go with fists would be pretty nice.
It's not the +X enhancement amount, but the magical status:
A monk fists do not reach Magical status in BG1. They will have to use actual weapons. In BG2, once their fists are considered Magical, Protection from Magic Weapons shuts down their unarmed attacks. They will have to use actual, non-magical, weapons.
As a class that employs this very mechanic, they should understand the necessity of training and preparing for such defenses.
You are correct, which is why I suggest allowing the use of at least quarterstaves and slings.
Really though, I feel like it is not a huge issue, because a monk using a weapon instead of his fists is really pretty awful. I could see it being a slight issue in BG1 where some enemies are immune to non-magical damage. As far as BG2 goes, how often are enemies really using Protection from Magic Weapons? I am honestly curious because I don't ever really remember it being an issue.
By the time a Monk hits level 3, their fists are already better than most weapons they could use, but the relatively late advent of an enhancement bonus means they have to keep something around to hit immune enemies, and it'd be nice if they retained some options for what that backup is instead of being shunted into a particular weapon that might overlap with another party member.
Monks play kind of like Barbarians in practice, they start out on the fragile side but grow into bruisers. The only downside to Monks is that their partial free action effect makes them immune to Haste and Improved Haste.
As to magical status in BG1, see this is where my unfamiliarity comes in. When do fists become +1? I could see making them +1 from the get-go, and only having higher enchantments (which is stupid - part of the reason I dislike this concept) in BG2. How many enemies in BG1 need +2 or higher to hit?
Normally Monk fists don't become +1 until level 9 (they only reach level 8 under BGEE's level cap). To my knowledge, there aren't any enemies in BG1 that need a +2 or higher to hit; it's only in BG2 that the actual degree of enhancement becomes important.
If you hate that monks fight without weapons, and also hate letting them use weapons, you could always just make a component that prevents people from playing Monks (say, by disallowing Humans from selecting the class) and be done with it.
You could let their fists become magic at earlier levels and give them a special that equips non magic fists in the fist slot...
I was toying with an "unnamed proficiency". You can do it if you make fist items use a selectable proficiency (and since you are already messing with proficiencies...)
There is a problem, however, that seems to be a hardcode issue, that makes this alteration interact strangely with single weapon proficiency. Apparently, items in the fist slot are hardcoded not to get swp bonuses, but they are not hardcoded to not display swp derived bonuses on the character sheet. I have not found a way around this.
Well it could be easier than that. This is only within the prof component, and the prof component eliminates bastard sword proficiency (plus a few others). So you could just make a monk-only item with BS prof and with an equipping effect that grants 1 star in BS prof, and is unenchanted. And uses the fist animation. Simple!
Right?
That's funny, I used the bs slot with the intention of changing it to long sword. But you could probably do something like this. You could probably even use the fist items(renamed). I think they work as a normal one handed weapon, with swp bonuses, when they are not in the fist slot
I have tweaked the bonuses, however, so that a score of 19 is not better than 18 (warrior percentages are meaningless also) similar to 3-5e with more bonuses at lower scores, starting at 12 and increasing every 2nd attribute point, so only races with with a +2 can be truly superhuman in a give attribute. Humans will have higher overall scores, but if you want a character that is tough beyond tough, for example, then you need to be a dwarf.
I know you already did so much work and its just awesome! But any possibility that it will be IWD:EE compatible in the future? (no pressure!) Again AWESOME mod thanks for it!
I just re-read this... so are monk fists an actual item in the weapon slot? Because the easiest way to deal with the PfMW issue is what I guess you said: give the actual fist item an ability to switch itself out for a non-magical variant. The monk could "turn off" his Chi energy. Basically the same way BG2Tweaks implements 2-handed bastard swords. I think that would be pretty easy to code up - which is of course my first concern! :P
Yes and No. They are an item, but have their own "FIST" slot (SLOT_FIST, #10), which has two unique aspects. It is not saved - it will default whenever you load the game. It has to be manually "equipped" by pressing the quick-weapon button whenever you change it. It can also cause crashes if you try to do something too complex (similar to the Magic Weapon Slot).
Not trying to deter you though, it's not difficult, it's just best kept simple.
I also thought of different way to reason this: Monk's are supposed to be able to choose whether they deal lethal or non-lethal damage with their fists. You could make this be that, and have the non-magical version deal "fist/stunning" damage, like the normal fist.itm, while still dealing the normal amount of damage.
I'm still working out in my head the best way to do it, but yes, that sounds about right. Demihumans would have primary: +1 secondary: -- next three: -1 last stat: -2 exception to the usual norm.
it's too complicated and too penalizing. make just a single bonus (+1) and a two handicaps (-1 and -2) for all races
for example: Elves: 19 dex, 17 str, 16 con Half-elves: just 17 con (a mathematical blend of elf and human Halflings: 19 dex, 17 con, 16 str Dwarves: 19 con, 17 cha, 16 dex Gnomes: 19 int, 17 str, 16 cha (let's face it, gnomes are ugly) Half-orcs: 19 str, 17 int, 16 cha
The magic fist would have an item ability to remove itself, to deal with PfMW. It would also he subject to being dispelled... but 'powering up' would be an at-will ability so it would only be a temporary inconvenience. Downside: powering up would be impossible in dead magic areas. But how many of those are there?
Dead Magic shouldn't be an issue, or is it a non-EE problem?
Opcode 143, create item in slot, using slot 10(SLOT_FIST), permanent duration, is not subject to dispelling. Both the Magic and Mundane versions would need to use this to switch between each other, you cannot "remove" an item in this slot, only replace. It will override the item already there, but that only means minor inconvenience to save/load or a switch back and forth after a level up that gets new fists.
i have an idea about these created "fists" - how about making them into hand wraps
upon hitting level x you get an ability: "inscribe wrappings" you can make "handwraps of this or that" depending on level and/or kit and each type has a certain bonus
the items description states something like: "they contain inscriptions of spiritual importance for the monk. he uses them during meditation and to inspire himself with a power of divine or mystical origin during combat...yada yada"
every kit can choose between at least two kinds of hand wraps, and can create 1 per day (they don't expire and can't be removed from the inventory, creating a different kind just replaces the old one)
for example this could be the branch focused on the enchantment level - handwraps of reflection (level 1 enchantment +1 thaco, gained at level 5) - handwraps of contemplation (level 2 enchantment +1 thaco, +1 additional magic damage lvl 10) - handwraps of meditation (level 3 enchantment +2 thaco, +2 magic damage, lvl 15) - handwraps of penetration (lvl 4, +3 thaco, +3 magic damage, bypasses stoneskin and iron skins, lvl 20) - handwraps of understanding (lvl 5, +4 thaco, +4 magic damage, bypasses stoneskin, dispells illusions on hit, lvl 25)
this could be a branch focused on damage - bandage of passion (lvl 0 enchantment, 15% +1 str on hit, +1 main physical damage) - bandage of devotion (lvl 0 enchantment, 20% +1 str on hit, +2 dmg) - bandage of zeal (lvl 1, 25%, +3 dmg) - bandage of fanaticism (lvl 2, 30%, +4 dmg, +1/2 apr) - bandage of serenity (lvl 3, 50%, +5 dmg, +1 apr, +2 ac)
those two could be generic branches the unkitted class can have kitted monks only have one of these two and another kind, there could also be an "evil" branch, a fire damage branch etc.
what do you think?
edit: since these are kinda op they could actually have limited charges, for example 20, 30, 50 or sm like that
Comments
A monk fists do not reach Magical status in BG1. They will have to use actual weapons.
In BG2, once their fists are considered Magical, Protection from Magic Weapons shuts down their unarmed attacks. They will have to use actual, non-magical, weapons.
As a class that employs this very mechanic, they should understand the necessity of training and preparing for such defenses.
Really though, I feel like it is not a huge issue, because a monk using a weapon instead of his fists is really pretty awful. I could see it being a slight issue in BG1 where some enemies are immune to non-magical damage. As far as BG2 goes, how often are enemies really using Protection from Magic Weapons? I am honestly curious because I don't ever really remember it being an issue.
Monks play kind of like Barbarians in practice, they start out on the fragile side but grow into bruisers. The only downside to Monks is that their partial free action effect makes them immune to Haste and Improved Haste.
If you hate that monks fight without weapons, and also hate letting them use weapons, you could always just make a component that prevents people from playing Monks (say, by disallowing Humans from selecting the class) and be done with it.
I was toying with an "unnamed proficiency". You can do it if you make fist items use a selectable proficiency (and since you are already messing with proficiencies...)
There is a problem, however, that seems to be a hardcode issue, that makes this alteration interact strangely with single weapon proficiency. Apparently, items in the fist slot are hardcoded not to get swp bonuses, but they are not hardcoded to not display swp derived bonuses on the character sheet. I have not found a way around this.
MOD_STR MOD_DEX MOD_CON MOD_INT MOD_WIS MOD_CHR HUMAN 1 1 1 1 1 1 DWARF 0 -2 2 0 1 -1 ELF 0 1 -1 2 0 0 GNOME -1 0 1 2 -1 0 HALF_ELF 0 1 0 0 1 1 HALFLING -2 2 0 0 -1 1 HALFORC 2 -1 1 -1 0 -1I have tweaked the bonuses, however, so that a score of 19 is not better than 18 (warrior percentages are meaningless also) similar to 3-5e with more bonuses at lower scores, starting at 12 and increasing every 2nd attribute point, so only races with with a +2 can be truly superhuman in a give attribute. Humans will have higher overall scores, but if you want a character that is tough beyond tough, for example, then you need to be a dwarf.
But any possibility that it will be IWD:EE compatible in the future?
(no pressure!)
Again AWESOME mod thanks for it!
They are an item, but have their own "FIST" slot (SLOT_FIST, #10), which has two unique aspects. It is not saved - it will default whenever you load the game. It has to be manually "equipped" by pressing the quick-weapon button whenever you change it. It can also cause crashes if you try to do something too complex (similar to the Magic Weapon Slot).
Not trying to deter you though, it's not difficult, it's just best kept simple.
I also thought of different way to reason this: Monk's are supposed to be able to choose whether they deal lethal or non-lethal damage with their fists. You could make this be that, and have the non-magical version deal "fist/stunning" damage, like the normal fist.itm, while still dealing the normal amount of damage.
for example:
Elves: 19 dex, 17 str, 16 con
Half-elves: just 17 con (a mathematical blend of elf and human
Halflings: 19 dex, 17 con, 16 str
Dwarves: 19 con, 17 cha, 16 dex
Gnomes: 19 int, 17 str, 16 cha (let's face it, gnomes are ugly)
Half-orcs: 19 str, 17 int, 16 cha
Opcode 143, create item in slot, using slot 10(SLOT_FIST), permanent duration, is not subject to dispelling. Both the Magic and Mundane versions would need to use this to switch between each other, you cannot "remove" an item in this slot, only replace. It will override the item already there, but that only means minor inconvenience to save/load or a switch back and forth after a level up that gets new fists.
upon hitting level x you get an ability: "inscribe wrappings"
you can make "handwraps of this or that" depending on level and/or kit and each type has a certain bonus
the items description states something like: "they contain inscriptions of spiritual importance for the monk. he uses them during meditation and to inspire himself with a power of divine or mystical origin during combat...yada yada"
every kit can choose between at least two kinds of hand wraps, and can create 1 per day (they don't expire and can't be removed from the inventory, creating a different kind just replaces the old one)
for example this could be the branch focused on the enchantment level
- handwraps of reflection (level 1 enchantment +1 thaco, gained at level 5)
- handwraps of contemplation (level 2 enchantment +1 thaco, +1 additional magic damage lvl 10)
- handwraps of meditation (level 3 enchantment +2 thaco, +2 magic damage, lvl 15)
- handwraps of penetration (lvl 4, +3 thaco, +3 magic damage, bypasses stoneskin and iron skins, lvl 20)
- handwraps of understanding (lvl 5, +4 thaco, +4 magic damage, bypasses stoneskin, dispells illusions on hit, lvl 25)
this could be a branch focused on damage
- bandage of passion (lvl 0 enchantment, 15% +1 str on hit, +1 main physical damage)
- bandage of devotion (lvl 0 enchantment, 20% +1 str on hit, +2 dmg)
- bandage of zeal (lvl 1, 25%, +3 dmg)
- bandage of fanaticism (lvl 2, 30%, +4 dmg, +1/2 apr)
- bandage of serenity (lvl 3, 50%, +5 dmg, +1 apr, +2 ac)
those two could be generic branches the unkitted class can have
kitted monks only have one of these two and another kind, there could also be an "evil" branch, a fire damage branch etc.
what do you think?
edit: since these are kinda op they could actually have limited charges, for example 20, 30, 50 or sm like that