I'm against that, for the simple reason it does away with one of the greatest assets of your current system: having non-warriors being able to get multiple points in weapon proficiencies in varying degrees. I think that either you should keep the current system, or invest in a fully dialogue-based one. Anything in between will, IMO, create more bad side effects than it will solve issues.
Is it possible to switch styles & proficiencies? So that you could 4 stars in style and only 2 in weapons? Then you have the best of both worlds: you can start reaping the benefits of "getting good" with a weapon, but still have the versatility to switch out that +1 Longsword for that +3 Mace and there's still a faint distinction between specific weapons. Example: Your warrior starts out with, let's say, 8 proficiency points. You can't allocate more than 1 to a given style or weapon at lvl 1. You still get a point every 3 levels. But weapons stop at "specialisation", i.e. 2 stars, for +1 THAC0, +2 dmg, +0.5 APR. Single Weapon Style, however, gives +1 THAC0 & AC & speed at lvl 1, +1 dmg & 0.5 APR at lvl 2, +1 THAC0 & speed & dmg at lvl 3, and +1 AC & 0.5 APR at lvl 4.
Interesting ideas. I am going to experiment a bit with giving proficiency points out more frequently. Fighters for example will get a prof point every level, instead of every third level. This should be possible by changing profs.2da
I have another question for you subtledoctor, if you do not mind. I want to play around with the values from the stat overhaul. The dexterity and the strength values can be changed by simply changing the value in strmod.2da and dexmod.2da. Changing the values for int, wis and cha seems a but more complicated, as there are no table files to adjust. As I understand from the 200_SBO_revised_stats.tpa file i would have to adjust d5_stat1.spl and other similar effects. Is this correctly understood? How would I go about adjusting the value if true, and where should I look to adjust the values if false?
Why is Scales of Balance putting "Set APR to 1.5" on arrows? APR is being set on bows already, and then it's just getting overwritten by the arrow effect, except now it's also overriding bows that get extra attacks. (I'm pretty sure it's SoB doing it, as the effect pops up between two SoB backups.)
Edit: It looks like Item Revisions is giving arrows a proficiency of longbow, which SoB is then reading in and using to assign 1.5 APR. Not sure when this got added to Item Revisions, since this wasn't happening in my last IR + SoB install. It looks like it's this bit from item_rev/components/weapon_changes.tpa:
// if ammo's prof is 0 (none), then archer suffers no thaco penalty even without any points in launcher's proficiency
arrow // with arrows it is more difficult, because they're used by different bow proficiencies, so a point in longbow prof // will allow to shoot a shortbow with no points in shortbow prof; still, i think if you have put points in longbow // prof, then you want to use more powerful longbows, than cheat and shoot Tuigan (which has +1 ApR) for free, until // you obtain a highly enchanted composite longbow with damage far surpassing benefits of that extra attack // so, all things considered, use longbow proficiency for arrows - the exploit window is far more narrow now anyway BEGIN WRITE_BYTE 0x31 0x68 END
Also, as a more complex suggestion, maybe SoB should be scanning items and adjusting their APR based on whether they already have an APR effect on them, rather than using a list of (vanilla) items with non-standard APRs. That would make it more compatible with mod weapons with APR effects. (Though maybe it's your intent to change/nerf these weapons.)
Actually now that I glance at the code, it seems like arrows are not being affected. The APR changes only affect items with the longbow proficiency. Arrows don't have proficiency, do they?
Are there examples of items' APR being changed incorrectly? The code only tries to changes longbows and daggers.
I edited my post as I figured out what was happening. It was a change in Item Revisions giving arrows Longbow proficiency.
I think an easy fix on your end would be to check that the item is actually a weapon before modding it. (Though I think the IR fix seems kinda dumb.)
I have encountered weird bug where multi-class characters can set more proficiency points than intended for weapon styles (3 to 2-handed, 1-handed, sword and shield and 4 to 2 weapons) and they have no restrictions on assigning them at early levels. Can you look into it, please?
I have attached Weidu.log and weapprof.2da. Let me add that i checked weapprof.2da with change-log already and it is normal until "Scales of Balance" modifies it before biffing. And this is what i find suspicious:
"Most of it should slot nicely in immediately before SCS... *except* the MRO: if you install aTweaks, the MRO component should be installed after that."
Is it also okay to install all of it after SCS? Or could something break? Asking because SCS takes so long to reinstall...
@subtledoctor So this is a fun one. In my install, all spears are not counted as weapons. Characters can have proficiency with them, but trying to equip them gives the "wrong item type" message. Posting here, as I suspect Scales of Balance's weapon type collapse component to be responsible.
*EDIT* THanks for the fix! For those who interested the problem was a weird conflict with Faiths and Powers.
@subtledoctor Are there known conflicts between the weapon proficiency collapse and the CDTweaks' 2-handed katana component? It doesn't seem to work for me.
I do have SoB as the last mod, maybe I should try another clean install (sigh). I've had random conflicts/glitches before that disappeared on a re-install without changing anything.
The only other bonus introduced by this mod is the melee thac0 bonus. That is in the .SPL files "d5dex16" through "d5dex25." If you edit those 10 files in NI you can change the thac0 bonus from opcode 278 to opcode 284 (melee only).
I'd like to remove the melee thac0 bonus because I think it is applied also when equipping ranged weapons. How can I do this with NI?
Comments
I think that either you should keep the current system, or invest in a fully dialogue-based one. Anything in between will, IMO, create more bad side effects than it will solve issues.
Example: Your warrior starts out with, let's say, 8 proficiency points. You can't allocate more than 1 to a given style or weapon at lvl 1.
You still get a point every 3 levels.
But weapons stop at "specialisation", i.e. 2 stars, for +1 THAC0, +2 dmg, +0.5 APR.
Single Weapon Style, however, gives +1 THAC0 & AC & speed at lvl 1, +1 dmg & 0.5 APR at lvl 2, +1 THAC0 & speed & dmg at lvl 3, and +1 AC & 0.5 APR at lvl 4.
Just a thought?
I have another question for you subtledoctor, if you do not mind. I want to play around with the values from the stat overhaul. The dexterity and the strength values can be changed by simply changing the value in strmod.2da and dexmod.2da. Changing the values for int, wis and cha seems a but more complicated, as there are no table files to adjust. As I understand from the 200_SBO_revised_stats.tpa file i would have to adjust d5_stat1.spl and other similar effects. Is this correctly understood? How would I go about adjusting the value if true, and where should I look to adjust the values if false?
Edit: It looks like Item Revisions is giving arrows a proficiency of longbow, which SoB is then reading in and using to assign 1.5 APR. Not sure when this got added to Item Revisions, since this wasn't happening in my last IR + SoB install. It looks like it's this bit from item_rev/components/weapon_changes.tpa:
Also, as a more complex suggestion, maybe SoB should be scanning items and adjusting their APR based on whether they already have an APR effect on them, rather than using a list of (vanilla) items with non-standard APRs. That would make it more compatible with mod weapons with APR effects. (Though maybe it's your intent to change/nerf these weapons.)
I think an easy fix on your end would be to check that the item is actually a weapon before modding it. (Though I think the IR fix seems kinda dumb.)
Let me add that i checked weapprof.2da with change-log already and it is normal until "Scales of Balance" modifies it before biffing.
And this is what i find suspicious:
https://github.com/UnearthedArcana/Scales_of_Balance/blob/master/scales_of_balance/components/122_WPO_proficiency.tpa
//AMEND WEAPPROF.2da_______________________________________________________________
//
COPY_EXISTING ~weapprof.2da~ ~override~
COUNT_2DA_COLS cols
REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~ ID ~ ~ TYPE ID ~
REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~[ %TAB%]5 ~ ~ 4 ~
REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~[ %TAB%]3 ~ ~ 4 ~
REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~[ %TAB%]2 ~ ~ 3 ~
REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~[ %TAB%]1 ~ ~ 2 ~
But why this problem affects only multi-classes i don't know.
Edit1. It seems that more proficiencies in styles affects anyone, but choosing more at the start affects only multi.
"Most of it should slot nicely in immediately before SCS... *except* the MRO: if you install aTweaks, the MRO component should be installed after that."
Is it also okay to install all of it after SCS? Or could something break?
Asking because SCS takes so long to reinstall...
*EDIT* THanks for the fix! For those who interested the problem was a weird conflict with Faiths and Powers.