It appears to me that this leaves the Skald pretty gimped compared to a vanilla bard. I think the Skald song should replace Ballard of 3 Heroes, but keep the others.
The Skald's song is still pretty awesome. It's twice as powerful as the Ballad of Three Heroes' attack/damage bonus, and also improves AC, which is more useful for dealing with the orcs, yetis, and ogres of early IWD than +1 saving throws. The bonus DOUBLES later on, and adds immunities to irritants like paralysis.
The obvious thing to do here, is to play a pure bard party. So you can have all kits in it and a few vanilla bards. I just have to decide for a 6-person band, to name them after. Maybe Wilco?
The Ten-Townies, Chaotic Good Drow Rangers, Dee Twenty and The Critical Hits, BaSS, The Lone Chaotic Good Drow Rangerz, Earth Wind And Fire No Seriously We Have Those, Six-Demon Band, Dungeon Filth, Gru Fighters, Arrowsmith, AC~HP, The d6s, Fus Ro Dah, Rhyme of Troubles, Rime of Troubles, Chaos In Their Passage, The Wise Alaundos, Black Blade of Disaster, Tuneblade, Insert Obscure Reference, Critical Bliss, Use Any Item...And I'm spent.
The scary thing? This could work suprisingly well as a party. The Jester runs a little crowd control. The Skald keeps his battle song up. The three vanillas run the Tale of Curran Strongheart, War Chant of Sith, and Tymora's Melody. Finally, the Blade, super-buffed by all of the songs plus the combined magic of six bards, does the killing with dual katana.
I think you mean Earth, Water, and Fire in this game. You are thinking of BGEE/BGIIEE.
Just out of curiosity, why are there neither air elementals in IWD nor water elementals in BG? An obscure alchemical reference? (probably not....I already looked into that)
Well, water is associated with cold, seeing as its very good at cooling thins down. Of course, air is usually equally associated with cold, due no doubt to breezes.
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IWD should have Air Elemental summoning now.
Oh yeah, for band names from spells, look no further than Righteous Wrath of the Faithful.
The obvious thing to do here, is to play a pure bard party. So you can have all kits in it and a few vanilla bards. I just have to decide for a 6-person band, to name them after. Maybe Wilco?
Iron Freakin' Maiden (I actually already made this party on another thread, but only two bards XD)
Bruce Dickinson: Singer and Blade (he is actually a fencer in real life) Steve Harris: Bass and Skald (he is the driving force behind the entire band, and so has the most powerful buff song) Nicko McBrain: Drums and Jester (since he is the joker of the group Then the amazing trio of axemen: Dave Murray: Guitar and Vanilla Adrian Smith: Guitar and Vanilla Janick Gers: Guitar and Vanilla
It appears to me that this leaves the Skald pretty gimped compared to a vanilla bard. I think the Skald song should replace Ballard of 3 Heroes, but keep the others.
The Skald's song is still pretty awesome. It's twice as powerful as the Ballad of Three Heroes' attack/damage bonus, and also improves AC, which is more useful for dealing with the orcs, yetis, and ogres of early IWD than +1 saving throws. The bonus DOUBLES later on, and adds immunities to irritants like paralysis.
With it's added regeneration, War Song of the Sith (level 11) is better than the level 15 skald song. The Immunities you speak of aren't available till level 20, and vanilla gets the same power soon after via HLAs (potentially level 24).
With it's added regeneration, War Song of the Sith (level 11) is better than the level 15 skald song. The Immunities you speak of aren't available till level 20, and vanilla gets the same power soon after via HLAs (potentially level 24).
War Chant of Sith's superiority is debatable. If it ends up working like IWD2, the regeneration will only function in combat. As for HLAs, I don't really count them for a character's usefulness. They're far off in the distance of a given character's career, and my concern is always for surviving the first few levels, for which Skald is superior. Granted, I'm using a vanilla Bard for my first run, but for Tymora's Melody and not War Chant of Sith, and also because RP-wise the character I'm emulating is not really part of the skald tradition. He's more like a standard medieval fantasy minstrel who loves chivalry and chronicling the adventures of knights. I'm just playing devil's advocate for the Skald being really awesome for those first ten levels.
With it's added regeneration, War Song of the Sith (level 11) is better than the level 15 skald song. The Immunities you speak of aren't available till level 20, and vanilla gets the same power soon after via HLAs (potentially level 24).
War Chant of Sith's superiority is debatable. If it ends up working like IWD2, the regeneration will only function in combat. As for HLAs, I don't really count them for a character's usefulness. They're far off in the distance of a given character's career, and my concern is always for surviving the first few levels, for which Skald is superior. Granted, I'm using a vanilla Bard for my first run, but for Tymora's Melody and not War Chant of Sith, and also because RP-wise the character I'm emulating is not really part of the skald tradition. He's more like a standard medieval fantasy minstrel who loves chivalry and chronicling the adventures of knights. I'm just playing devil's advocate for the Skald being really awesome for those first ten levels.
If you count HLAs as "too far off in the distance" then so are the upgrades to the Skald song. I agree that it us superior up to level 10, but after that it falls well behind. And just at the levels you are hitting the endgame, HoW and TotLM.
If you count HLAs as "too far off in the distance" then so are the upgrades to the Skald song. I agree that it us superior up to level 10, but after that it falls well behind. And just at the levels you are hitting the endgame, HoW and TotLM.
Level 15 is still a lot closer than HLAs. Skald is competitive. That's all that really matters. The Skald has access to the same HLAs, and might even be given more in IWD:EE due to its appropriate flavor to IWD.
If you count HLAs as "too far off in the distance" then so are the upgrades to the Skald song. I agree that it us superior up to level 10, but after that it falls well behind. And just at the levels you are hitting the endgame, HoW and TotLM.
Level 15 is still a lot closer than HLAs. Skald is competitive. That's all that really matters. The Skald has access to the same HLAs, and might even be given more in IWD:EE due to its appropriate flavor to IWD.
At level 15 Skald song only gains protection from fear, which vanilla bards can do at level 3, all be it with a separate song. Protection from stun etc only comes in at level 20, which is unlikely to be reached in normal IWD play.
The problem I have with Specialist Mages and Wild Mages coexisting is that... well, Wild Mages get an extra spell per level per day AND access to ALL spells AND have a level 1 spell that gives them a free spell of their choosing at best and a pit fiend at worst. Specialist mages get... an extra spell per level per day. Kinda lackluster in comparison, even with the Wild Mage's unreliability.
On topic: Jesters should actually be more impressive in IWD than in BG for the simple fact that you're fighting more mobs in IWD.
The problem I have with Specialist Mages and Wild Mages coexisting is that... well, Wild Mages get an extra spell per level per day AND access to ALL spells AND have a level 1 spell that gives them a free spell of their choosing at best and a pit fiend at worst. Specialist mages get... an extra spell per level per day. Kinda lackluster in comparison, even with the Wild Mage's unreliability.
On topic: Jesters should actually be more impressive in IWD than in BG for the simple fact that you're fighting more mobs in IWD.
If its like BG 1 or 2 they may also get a 15% increase in their chance to learn the spell of their school, and a 15% decrease in their chance to learn a spell outside of their school. On top of +2 to saving throws against spells from their school. I don't know if how Icewind Dale handles it so I'll tag @Dee to see if there is a difference in that regard.
At level 15 Skald song only gains protection from fear, which vanilla bards can do at level 3, all be it with a separate song. Protection from stun etc only comes in at level 20, which is unlikely to be reached in normal IWD play.
I maintain that Skald is competitive. The vanilla Bard's advantage is versatility, especially with some of its songs helping to protect the party from magic, which the Skald largely does not. Still, for raw combat performance support the Skald, I think, is equal if not superior to the vanilla Bard. The Skald makes your best fighters even better, makes your weakest fighters suddenly competent if they need to swing a weapon, and he does that better than the Bard, but he is something of a one-trick pony. That sounds like balance to me.
It takes that many people to make such ugly music????? :P :P
Half of them do jack shit. It could easily be a five-piece and they'd be barely any different. At the risk of taking this thread off-topic, here's my personal synopsis of the band, keeping in mind I'm a fan:
Vocalist Corey Taylor - Brilliant in the studio, godawful live. I don't think he ever learned to scream without hurting himself. Guitarist Mick Thompson - Plays all the thrashy riffs. This is what makes the band "ugly" to some people, which is legitimate IMO, it's a developed taste as it were. He's pretty technical. On a personal level, I'm not overly fond of his playing. Guitarist Jim Root - Plays all the melodic fills and most of the guitar solos. He's my favorite member of the band personally, and definitely one of my favorite guitarists. Drummer Joey Jordison (although he's just been kicked out :<) - Overrated, but solid. Very much a fast metal drummer, but he actually knows how to hold a pretty groovy beat as well. Usually drummers are one or the other, and he straddles the fence. Bassist Paul Gray (RIP) - Plays the rhythm guitar riffs an octave down. Awful bassist. Percussionist Shawn Crahan - Adds a couple beats here and there and some heavy snare additions. Has a massive ego and I have no clue how. He's bad. Percussionist Chris Fehn - Same as Shawn, except he's a likable person. Samples/Keyboards Craig Jones - Adds barely anything. A few keyboard parts in their softer songs, and some creepy samples in some others. Turntablist Sid Wilson - For what it's worth, this guy is an absolute beast at scratching. I'm actually rather fond of what he adds to the band, but like Craig he doesn't even have parts in every song.
@Quartz eh, I don't mind thrashy riffs at all, in fact I love them usually (love Iced Earth, and they are based entirely on thrashy riffs). I don't like them simply because I don't like that kind of growling vocals. The thing is that Corey Taylor has a wonderful voice when he chooses to sing. You know that song "We all got left behind... I'M FEELING I'M SLIPPING AWAY"? I like the "We all got left behind" part. It's all a matter of taste and opinion (like when I call their music "ugly")
It's like the band Opeth. They are a death metal band, which is just not my style. However they produce some songs that are mellow and soothing, which are incredible. They made an entire album that featured such songs called Damnation, which is among my favorite albums of all time.
Also, I don't really like the masks... kinda disturb me and I see it as gimmicky. But then again, my favorite band evah is Iron Maiden and they have a zombie mascot. I can see people finding Eddie disturbing, and if that isn't gimmicky I don't know what is!
The obvious thing to do here, is to play a pure bard party. So you can have all kits in it and a few vanilla bards. I just have to decide for a 6-person band, to name them after. Maybe Wilco?
Iron Freakin' Maiden (I actually already made this party on another thread, but only two bards XD)
Bruce Dickinson: Singer and Blade (he is actually a fencer in real life) Steve Harris: Bass and Skald (he is the driving force behind the entire band, and so has the most powerful buff song) Nicko McBrain: Drums and Jester (since he is the joker of the group Then the amazing trio of axemen: Dave Murray: Guitar and Vanilla Adrian Smith: Guitar and Vanilla Janick Gers: Guitar and Vanilla
"Two Guitar Style" should be a proficiency :: not for one character to adapt, but for the party.
Comments
The scary thing? This could work suprisingly well as a party. The Jester runs a little crowd control. The Skald keeps his battle song up. The three vanillas run the Tale of Curran Strongheart, War Chant of Sith, and Tymora's Melody. Finally, the Blade, super-buffed by all of the songs plus the combined magic of six bards, does the killing with dual katana.
Madness.
Just out of curiosity, why are there neither air elementals in IWD nor water elementals in BG? An obscure alchemical reference? (probably not....I already looked into that)
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IWD should have Air Elemental summoning now.
Oh yeah, for band names from spells, look no further than Righteous Wrath of the Faithful.
Demon
Starchild
Spaceman
Catman
Fox
Wiz (Ankh Warrior)
Bruce Dickinson: Singer and Blade (he is actually a fencer in real life)
Steve Harris: Bass and Skald (he is the driving force behind the entire band, and so has the most powerful buff song)
Nicko McBrain: Drums and Jester (since he is the joker of the group
Then the amazing trio of axemen:
Dave Murray: Guitar and Vanilla
Adrian Smith: Guitar and Vanilla
Janick Gers: Guitar and Vanilla
A well-known six-piece is Linkin Park. :P
On topic: Jesters should actually be more impressive in IWD than in BG for the simple fact that you're fighting more mobs in IWD.
Vocalist Corey Taylor - Brilliant in the studio, godawful live. I don't think he ever learned to scream without hurting himself.
Guitarist Mick Thompson - Plays all the thrashy riffs. This is what makes the band "ugly" to some people, which is legitimate IMO, it's a developed taste as it were. He's pretty technical. On a personal level, I'm not overly fond of his playing.
Guitarist Jim Root - Plays all the melodic fills and most of the guitar solos. He's my favorite member of the band personally, and definitely one of my favorite guitarists.
Drummer Joey Jordison (although he's just been kicked out :<) - Overrated, but solid. Very much a fast metal drummer, but he actually knows how to hold a pretty groovy beat as well. Usually drummers are one or the other, and he straddles the fence.
Bassist Paul Gray (RIP) - Plays the rhythm guitar riffs an octave down. Awful bassist.
Percussionist Shawn Crahan - Adds a couple beats here and there and some heavy snare additions. Has a massive ego and I have no clue how. He's bad.
Percussionist Chris Fehn - Same as Shawn, except he's a likable person.
Samples/Keyboards Craig Jones - Adds barely anything. A few keyboard parts in their softer songs, and some creepy samples in some others.
Turntablist Sid Wilson - For what it's worth, this guy is an absolute beast at scratching. I'm actually rather fond of what he adds to the band, but like Craig he doesn't even have parts in every song.
eh, I don't mind thrashy riffs at all, in fact I love them usually (love Iced Earth, and they are based entirely on thrashy riffs). I don't like them simply because I don't like that kind of growling vocals. The thing is that Corey Taylor has a wonderful voice when he chooses to sing. You know that song "We all got left behind... I'M FEELING I'M SLIPPING AWAY"? I like the "We all got left behind" part. It's all a matter of taste and opinion (like when I call their music "ugly")
It's like the band Opeth. They are a death metal band, which is just not my style. However they produce some songs that are mellow and soothing, which are incredible. They made an entire album that featured such songs called Damnation, which is among my favorite albums of all time.
It is sometimes hard to imagine that someone can return to death metal after producing something as awesome as this:
Also, I don't really like the masks... kinda disturb me and I see it as gimmicky. But then again, my favorite band evah is Iron Maiden and they have a zombie mascot. I can see people finding Eddie disturbing, and if that isn't gimmicky I don't know what is!
"Two Guitar Style" should be a proficiency :: not for one character to adapt, but for the party.
Just not great axes, since they are two-handers.
(It would be awesome if they introduced a two-handed cursed axe called "Fender", which causes berserk in both the wielder and the target.)