I myself don't like the way modders think that they know better than the original developers.
Beamdog has original BG/BG2 devs on staff, one of whom personally approved this change.
No, you know what? This was a mistake and I apologize. Appeals to authority are not sound reasoning.
The reason for moving Drizzt's weapons have already been covered. Pickpocketing a weapon out of anyone's hand is not intended behavior; that Drizzt's weapons were slotted to avoid the limitations of the vBG engine does not change that. It's also worth noting that when the devs brought Drizzt into vBG2, Frostbrand was moved to a slot to prevent it being pickpocketed.
@CamDawg My memory is hazy here but wasn't one of Drizzt's scimitars previously in the helmet slot in original BG1? Does this mean he can now be critical hitted? Thanks.
or they could make it so drizzt doesnt drop his gear and gives very lowsy experience so then we can stop killing him, although i don't kill him as often as i used to, since i always import my bg1 characters to bg2, and there isn't that many useful scimitars in bg2 ( i like using long swords, axes and flails instead, or at least weapons that can hit +3 before spell hold)
@CamDawg My memory is hazy here but wasn't one of Drizzt's scimitars previously in the helmet slot in original BG1? Does this mean he can now be critical hitted? Thanks.
We'll I welcome the change, feels less like an exploit. I pickpocket drizzit once and honestly felt like i should have just used the console. If you want his equipment do it the hard way (and i dont think it was ever intended to be easy)
I do agree that making pickpocketing a valuable skill would be great! Randomised items on the majority of peasants (potions,gems etc) and maybe even rarely a good scroll or wand. Add a few unique items too for all pickpocket levels. Is it possible to even make it tactical? (Stealth pickpocket an enemy to steal potions or even arrows/ammo forcing them to melee?). Maybe even a stealth pickpocket is the only way to steal equipped items at a much higher penalty with no potion assistance and then players will still be able to steal drizzits weapons, but only with a high stealth and unmodified high pickpocket. To me thats a fair exchange as one of your other skills will have to take a hit to appease the requisite to steal equipped weapons. I'd personally love to see grey wolf come at me only yo have my thief pickpocket the weapon out of his hands. I think it goes without saying that it would make anyone instantly aggressive
You can actually pickpocket enemies' potions to keep them from using them. The tricky part is that later on they often have 2 or 3 healing potions (and half a dozen invisibility potions if they're a thief), so stealth alone is insufficient to clean them out.
Damn never knew that ive always been too busy whacking them with big sticks I assumed potions enemies used were tagged as 'equipped' in the quick item slot.
It isn't about what I want because I am not the one trying to pickpocket Mr. Do'Urden. In my opinion, The Stupefier and Dagger of Venom are better weapons, as is Spider's Bane (at least, it will be once I reapply its change to grant the wielder immunity to poison like it *should* have).
With Spider's Bane, I think it would make more sense for it to deal extra damage against spiders. Immunity to poison means that it also trumps wyverns, which don't really team up with spiders. Just my opinion anyway.
hrm....I never thought about that before, @OlvynChuru. Let me think...it *may* be possible to apply a spell to the wielder with a timing effect of "while equipped" granting immunity to poison then also apply a "cast spell on condition" effect with timing options "cast every round"; the effect targets wyverns and makes them immune to the spell on the wielder. I have no idea if that will work--have never tried it before.
It might be more straightforward to apply a "attack roll penalty" against spiders (making it more difficult for them to hit you) and an extra +2 to hit/damage against spiders; this would be trivial and would bring the sword back into more appropriate balance. Or I could make the sword give you an extra +2 to save versus poison.
In BG1, I agree, there are few pockets with anything to pick. However, if your protagonist is going to be good at picking pockets in early BG2, you need to start investing in the skill while you're still in BG1.
There is still Algernon's Cloak unless that has been nerfed in BGEE.
It isn't about what I want because I am not the one trying to pickpocket Mr. Do'Urden. In my opinion, The Stupefier and Dagger of Venom are better weapons, as is Spider's Bane (at least, it will be once I reapply its change to grant the wielder immunity to poison like it *should* have).
With Spider's Bane, I think it would make more sense for it to deal extra damage against spiders. Immunity to poison means that it also trumps wyverns, which don't really team up with spiders. Just my opinion anyway.
Is there no way to have Spiders and Wyverns have different poisons?
The reason for moving Drizzt's weapons have already been covered. Pickpocketing a weapon out of anyone's hand is not intended behavior;
Poppycock. Any good flim-flam man worth his salt will get both scimtars right out from those hands.
"Hi drizzit, good to know ya. I just gotta shake your hand. Oh no, my hands are full. Hold on. Hey gnomes. Here hold this. Gnome? I meant gnolls. Ha ah, imagine if those were gnomes. Ok, wait watch out. Oh, now I'll hold that. Now put her there. Big fan. Ok, now you can have this back and I'll take that. You hang in there big guy. Can't stay to help you, sorry. My baby has a bun in the oven."
And he's off. Drizzt left holding a cheap dagger and a wet fish, bamboozled.
As for the current in this thread about pickpocketing being more useful in general. I think the best way would have been more integration into the story from the start that allowed non-violent, pick pocket based solutions to various quests, not just access to more loot.
The reason for moving Drizzt's weapons have already been covered. Pickpocketing a weapon out of anyone's hand is not intended behavior;
Poppycock. Any good flim-flam man worth his salt will get both scimtars right out from those hands.
"Hi drizzit, good to know ya. I just gotta shake your hand. Oh no, my hands are full. Hold on. Hey gnomes. Here hold this. Gnome? I meant gnolls. Ha ah, imagine if those were gnomes. Ok, wait watch out. Oh, now I'll hold that. Now put her there. Big fan. Ok, now you can have this back and I'll take that. You hang in there big guy. Can't stay to help you, sorry. My baby has a bun in the oven."
And he's off. Drizzt left holding a cheap dagger and a wet fish, bamboozled.
Isn´t that still possible? The table in that thread https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/22203/pick-pocket-changes gives 95 for weapons. So a thief needs 95% pickpocket skill to steal weapons - shouldn´t a level 3 halfelven thief with 18 Dexterity who maximizes the pickpocket skill be able to fulfill that requirement?
If you are just looking for his equipment and not the XP, the absolutely easiest way to 'have him killed' is to, while hidden or invisible, get just close enough to trigger some of the Gnolls (like the bottom 5 or 6). When triggered, they will immediately run up and start swinging on Drizzt. After triggering the Gnolls you need to run further away or Drizzt will start swinging back, chunking all the Gnolls. Once you're far enough away and you can see that Drizzt is not fighting back just walk away from the game for 20 minutes or so. When you come back, clear out the Gnoll fodder and retrieve your new (slightly used) scimitars and chain mail. I guess if you REALLY want to kill him just watch the damage the Gnolls do for 20 mins and when he's about dead go in with the coup de grâce.
Ah ok. I see. Thats a bummer. The reason why this concerns me is that I know BG series very well. I remember every item and even every trap. As every other man, Im creature of habit. So I dont like changes. I actually like all the "exploits" that I found throughout the games. Ah well, what can I do... I will get my two scimitars elsewhere. At lest I can now play BG on my phone on my way to work. Still for me Easy-Tutu is a superior version (never tried GemRB though). Btw those microtransactions are... terrible. I hate them in every game. And especially in one, that you already have to buy. Of course I dont need new NPCs. And paying for new portraits... Im not twelve. But still, Im against the whole concept. When you pay for an app/game, you should receive a complete version (with no ads).
Btw I already met two bugs. My fighter has a description (character history) for a mage. And after I kicked Kagain from my party he really seems to be keen on talking to me again and again and again.
Still once my Berserk/Druid (level split 20/25 of course) gets his hands of Spectral Brand and Belm in BG2+ToB, once more the Druids will rule the galaxy and we shall have peace!
Algernon's Cloak is still available in BGEE. As of 1.2 you need 50 to pickpocket it.
Speaking of which, whose idea was it to make Pick Pocket threshold-based, rather than chance-based? It is not the original game behaviour, so was it suggested/approved by one of the original devs?
Always seemed pretty cheesey. I figger a dude like that, have the guts to fight em for the stuff (after a nice pickpocketing failure of course, hehheh., AND have his kitty cat watchin from a good hidey spot to come out and give him a hand, er claw.
Algernon's Cloak is still available in BGEE. As of 1.2 you need 50 to pickpocket it.
Speaking of which, whose idea was it to make Pick Pocket threshold-based, rather than chance-based? It is not the original game behaviour, so was it suggested/approved by one of the original devs?
I must admit that I don't like the threshold based system. The chance based system was far better.
Algernon's Cloak is still available in BGEE. As of 1.2 you need 50 to pickpocket it.
Speaking of which, whose idea was it to make Pick Pocket threshold-based, rather than chance-based? It is not the original game behaviour, so was it suggested/approved by one of the original devs?
I must admit that I don't like the threshold based system. The chance based system was far better.
There is still chance involved as any attempt has a chance to fail or to be detected as far as I understand it.
However what is better now is that a player is not tempted anymore to have his lowly starting thief abuse potions and savespam to get his loot successfully despite spending his skillpoints on other skills. 5% pickpocket chance? No problem, reload perhaps a dozen times and it worked. Now it really takes a master thief who has learned his trade to pickpocket the more difficult targets as it ought to be.
Algernon's Cloak is still available in BGEE. As of 1.2 you need 50 to pickpocket it.
Speaking of which, whose idea was it to make Pick Pocket threshold-based, rather than chance-based? It is not the original game behaviour, so was it suggested/approved by one of the original devs?
I must admit that I don't like the threshold based system. The chance based system was far better.
There is still chance involved as any attempt has a chance to fail or to be detected as far as I understand it.
However what is better now is that a player is not tempted anymore to have his lowly starting thief abuse potions and savespam to get his loot successfully despite spending his skillpoints on other skills. 5% pickpocket chance? No problem, reload perhaps a dozen times and it worked. Now it really takes a master thief who has learned his trade to pickpocket the more difficult targets as it ought to be.
There are still several exploits for killing Drizzt. Surround him with your party members and then boot them all out of the party, (make sure you're standing next to them as they're booted so they don't move). Once Drizzt is ringed in by 4-5 blue circles, step back and pelt him with ranged weapons. He can't move out of the circle of blue rings, so he just sits around until he's dead. (Make sure you bring lots of ammo.)
It's trickier to pull off than it used to be since Drizzt now wanders around the area and is very quick, but it's still doable.
As for pickpocket, in my opinion, the best reason to get it is to load up on enough consumables early to carry you through the game. Potions, enchanted ammo, wands, etc; with a solid pickpocket supplying you, you can burn through that stuff like mad and never have to worry about running out.
Sure, you'll eventually have enough gold to just buy that fair and square, but "eventually" is not "immediately".
(I also houserule that I don't stack more than one potion of master thievery at a time, which prevents you from buying 4 potions, chugging them, then going on a pickpocket spree through an entire town at once. It makes it more important to invest in a high base pickpocket level.)
(I also houserule that I don't stack more than one potion of master thievery at a time, which prevents you from buying 4 potions, chugging them, then going on a pickpocket spree through an entire town at once. It makes it more important to invest in a high base pickpocket level.)
I have never used multiple potions of potion of master thievery at a time. It doesn't seem right. However I have no problem with using a potion of master thievery and a potion of perception. (Also a potion of dexterity if required but it usually isn't) I would also have no problem with combing that with a luck spell though I usually don't.
(I also houserule that I don't stack more than one potion of master thievery at a time, which prevents you from buying 4 potions, chugging them, then going on a pickpocket spree through an entire town at once. It makes it more important to invest in a high base pickpocket level.)
I have never used multiple potions of potion of master thievery at a time. It doesn't seem right. However I have no problem with using a potion of master thievery and a potion of perception. (Also a potion of dexterity if required but it usually isn't) I would also have no problem with combing that with a luck spell though I usually don't.
Agreed. With Master Thievery, Perception, and Mind Focusing, you're looking at a +75% bonus, 80% if you also throw in Luck. (I don't because it seems like a lot of effort, and because it's kind of cheesy that time stops while in the shopping screen, so you can literally steal a store's entire inventory in the 3-round window before Luck wears off.)
Some stores require as high as 240+% to steal reliably, though. Bernard is extremely tough. So is, (randomly enough), Mrs. Cragmoon. That means you still need 150+ base if you want to use thievery to stock up your party at the beginning of BG2. Which I like; that's a very heavy spend, and there *should* be some reward for that kind of investment.
Comments
The reason for moving Drizzt's weapons have already been covered. Pickpocketing a weapon out of anyone's hand is not intended behavior; that Drizzt's weapons were slotted to avoid the limitations of the vBG engine does not change that. It's also worth noting that when the devs brought Drizzt into vBG2, Frostbrand was moved to a slot to prevent it being pickpocketed.
I do agree that making pickpocketing a valuable skill would be great! Randomised items on the majority of peasants (potions,gems etc) and maybe even rarely a good scroll or wand. Add a few unique items too for all pickpocket levels. Is it possible to even make it tactical? (Stealth pickpocket an enemy to steal potions or even arrows/ammo forcing them to melee?). Maybe even a stealth pickpocket is the only way to steal equipped items at a much higher penalty with no potion assistance and then players will still be able to steal drizzits weapons, but only with a high stealth and unmodified high pickpocket. To me thats a fair exchange as one of your other skills will have to take a hit to appease the requisite to steal equipped weapons. I'd personally love to see grey wolf come at me only yo have my thief pickpocket the weapon out of his hands. I think it goes without saying that it would make anyone instantly aggressive
Still 1 less "quaffs a potion" to worry about.
It might be more straightforward to apply a "attack roll penalty" against spiders (making it more difficult for them to hit you) and an extra +2 to hit/damage against spiders; this would be trivial and would bring the sword back into more appropriate balance. Or I could make the sword give you an extra +2 to save versus poison.
I'll see what I can do.
"Hi drizzit, good to know ya. I just gotta shake your hand. Oh no, my hands are full. Hold on. Hey gnomes. Here hold this. Gnome? I meant gnolls. Ha ah, imagine if those were gnomes. Ok, wait watch out. Oh, now I'll hold that. Now put her there. Big fan. Ok, now you can have this back and I'll take that. You hang in there big guy. Can't stay to help you, sorry. My baby has a bun in the oven."
And he's off. Drizzt left holding a cheap dagger and a wet fish, bamboozled.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/22203/pick-pocket-changes
gives 95 for weapons. So a thief needs 95% pickpocket skill to steal weapons - shouldn´t a level 3 halfelven thief with 18 Dexterity who maximizes the pickpocket skill be able to fulfill that requirement?
Once you're far enough away and you can see that Drizzt is not fighting back just walk away from the game for 20 minutes or so. When you come back, clear out the Gnoll fodder and retrieve your new (slightly used) scimitars and chain mail.
I guess if you REALLY want to kill him just watch the damage the Gnolls do for 20 mins and when he's about dead go in with the coup de grâce.
Btw I already met two bugs. My fighter has a description (character history) for a mage. And after I kicked Kagain from my party he really seems to be keen on talking to me again and again and again.
Still once my Berserk/Druid (level split 20/25 of course) gets his hands of Spectral Brand and Belm in BG2+ToB, once more the Druids will rule the galaxy and we shall have peace!
However what is better now is that a player is not tempted anymore to have his lowly starting thief abuse potions and savespam to get his loot successfully despite spending his skillpoints on other skills.
5% pickpocket chance? No problem, reload perhaps a dozen times and it worked. Now it really takes a master thief who has learned his trade to pickpocket the more difficult targets as it ought to be.
It's trickier to pull off than it used to be since Drizzt now wanders around the area and is very quick, but it's still doable.
As for pickpocket, in my opinion, the best reason to get it is to load up on enough consumables early to carry you through the game. Potions, enchanted ammo, wands, etc; with a solid pickpocket supplying you, you can burn through that stuff like mad and never have to worry about running out.
Sure, you'll eventually have enough gold to just buy that fair and square, but "eventually" is not "immediately".
(I also houserule that I don't stack more than one potion of master thievery at a time, which prevents you from buying 4 potions, chugging them, then going on a pickpocket spree through an entire town at once. It makes it more important to invest in a high base pickpocket level.)
Some stores require as high as 240+% to steal reliably, though. Bernard is extremely tough. So is, (randomly enough), Mrs. Cragmoon. That means you still need 150+ base if you want to use thievery to stock up your party at the beginning of BG2. Which I like; that's a very heavy spend, and there *should* be some reward for that kind of investment.