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Baldurs Gate 3 (spoilers!)

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  • mlnevesemlnevese Member, Moderator Posts: 10,214
    Mystra should try something like that... That's a goddess that really needs a backup copy :-)
    the_spyderelminsterrufus_hobartSethDavis
  • fanscalefanscale Member Posts: 81
    I don't care if we get a 3, but could you re-write TOB it was a bit rushed. Also the NPCs from number 1.
  • LordInsaneLordInsane Member Posts: 38

    The Pantheon is not small. Who is to say that another God might not have tried or tries something similar? That could make for a whole new cycle "In the vein of" the Bhaalspawn saga.

    It's well-established canon that Bhaal did so, but no other FR god is known to have done anything of the sort. However, yes, I suppose it could turn out that one of the others did something similar in secret. Interesting idea. It'd take some careful writing to avoid looking too much like a boringly mechanical re-cycling of the Bhaalspawn plotline, but I'm sure a good writer could do that.
    We can probably reject Bane as an option, as he did something not entirely dissimilar but with his trick relying on having *one* spawn (who then could end up a minor deity in his own right before the unknown conditions Bane had set up to allow him to be reborn from Iyachtu Xvim were fulfilled).
    fanscale said:

    I don't care if we get a 3, but could you re-write TOB it was a bit rushed. Also the NPCs from number 1.

    Rewriting TOB as a full game in its own right would have been pretty interesting (it has sometimes been referred to as the third part of the trilogy, after all), although obviously out of the scope of Beamdog's contract (and too late now that BG2EE has been released with TOB included).
    killerrabbit
  • the_spyderthe_spyder Member Posts: 5,018
    The whole "expanding ToB into a full game" (speaking conceptually and with no knowledge of how contractually it could or could not be done) seems like an interesting concept. Even WITH ToB being part of EE, I could (conceptually) see someone going at it from the 'Tales of the Sword Coast' perspective and inserting in whole areas and story lines (metaphorically) into the existing framework.

    It might be a good (always assuming that the licence rights could be obtained, which is by no means a certain thing) way for Beamdog to further cut their teeth on the series. it wouldn't be a 'Full game' in it's own right, and would not introduce a new rules set. Plus it would resolve certain perceived disparities that the community hold.

    Conceptually it sounds like a decent idea if only in my mind.
    killerrabbit
  • BhodarBhodar Member Posts: 21
    Just to stop people from thinking about CHARNAME returning.

    CHARNAME get's killed by or kills his/her last half-brother thought dead during a festival in Baldur's Gate, then one of em turns into a bhaalspawn and get's killed by adventurers.

    DnD The Sundering Part 1
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited September 2014
    Bhodar said:

    Just to stop people from thinking about CHARNAME returning.

    CHARNAME get's killed by or kills his/her last half-brother thought dead during a festival in Baldur's Gate, then one of em turns into a bhaalspawn and get's killed by adventurers.

    DnD The Sundering Part 1

    That reject is NOT Charname. The real Charname, OUR Charname, died from old age (if he/she is not part of a race that can live longer than a century) due to giving up him/her giving up Bhaal's taint to live as a mortal. Charname ascending as a god is not canonical.
  • CatoblepasCatoblepas Member Posts: 96

    Bhodar said:

    Just to stop people from thinking about CHARNAME returning.

    CHARNAME get's killed by or kills his/her last half-brother thought dead during a festival in Baldur's Gate, then one of em turns into a bhaalspawn and get's killed by adventurers.

    DnD The Sundering Part 1

    That reject is NOT Charname. The real Charname, OUR Charname, died from old age (if he/she is not part of a race that can live longer than a century) due to giving up him/her giving up Bhaal's taint to live as a mortal. Charname ascending as a god is not canonical.
    Sorry, if you are going to talk 'canon' Abdel Adrian *is* Charname.

    One of several reasons why I'm not interested in anything 5e Forgotten Realms-if MiBG was supposed to be WoTC idea of fanservice....
  • VitorVitor Member Posts: 288
    edited September 2014
    Well... Throne of Bhaal IS Baldur's Gate III.
    I'm satisfied with the conclusion of the trilogy. Lv. 30 is beyond enough for me.

    What would really amuse me is a D&D RPG game that let you control a full party again (up to 6 characters, like in BG), and that have a classical look of the Forgotten Realms setting. Really, I can't stand looking to the banalization of Dragonborns, Genasis and Babylon Five Tieflings. Even drows got banalized. Look how Viconia was treated in Baldur's Gate (people tried to burn her), and compare to the freak population of Neverwinter Online.

    I like the fact that Dwarfs can't be Wizards, and that only Humans can be Paladins. Even armors seems awfully bright and polygonal for me in this new Fantasy RPGs. I prefere much more the grounded look, with armors and clothes closer to a more realistic medieval look. D&D had a look closer to Conan the Barbarian, or even Game of Thrones, until the end of the 90s. Now it's infected with World of Warcraft style... Yuck!
    WigglesWandering_Minstrel
  • tennisgolfbolltennisgolfboll Member Posts: 457
    Bg 3 should be about generations later. Great grandfather was charname who was the hero and ended up as elder and boss over the city and region of baldurs gate. Now much later you are one of the many "heirs" to this bloodline and a bloody civil war is spreading across the land.

    The story can lead you to become a ruthless warlord or a hero that restores peace or just someone who plunges the city and region into lasting chaos. Alot of quests, companions and choices that affect the world.
    killerrabbit
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Nobody takes me seriously, but Ill say it again: just give us a new IP on the Infinity Engine. We could be playing a quest revolving around GamerGate or something Real World controversial for all I care.
    killerrabbit
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2014
    I'm doubtful about Wizards authorizing use of the Infinity engine for anything other than BG[2]EE DLC, though.

    This is a repost from another thread but here is what I would most like to see:

    WotC allows Beamdog to release brand new full-fledged adventures as DLC for BG[2]EE using the revamped EE Infinity engine that begin as seemingly independent of the BG series story. These adventures would amount to brand new games even if smaller in scope than the BG trilogy. They would be set pre-Spellplague and (obviously, as BG[2]EE DLC) use the EE Infinity ruleset. These would be at about the scope of expansions such as ToSC or Watcher's Keep. Note that we have seen this already with Black Pits does as a standalone adventure as well. So let's see this done for many new adventures set anywhere in Toril taking place roughly around the same time as the BG saga. Heck, I would even love to see a BG series prequel like that! (Released via several installments.)

    So basically these would be expansions that extend outside of the main story, but are still related to the main plotline with Bhaal. It would not be hard at all to dream up adventures that seem at the start unrelated to Bhaal's scheme but it turns out do have a bearing upon the Bhaalspawn plot; and are set in locations anywhere on Toril. The fun would be the revelation given at the end of the adventure as to how it connects to the overarching BG story! Such tales might even be woven together, i.e., sometimes share plot threads. Through such stories the writers build outward from the center to give more depth, breadth, and backstory to Bhaal's overall scheme to resurrect himself by sowing his mortal progeny. Create a richer overall backdrop. (This is what I expect to be done for LotR and Star Wars in the coming decades.)

    I think if they are well developed enough these stand-alone adventures could easily sell for $10-20 each. Beamdog is mainly just having to create new areas in terms of labor. Creatively of course this content must consist of entertaining stories with great characters and use well realized fresh sub-settings of FR. But I trust that Beamdog can deliver that.

    Anyway, I should think Beamdog could churn these out for at least good decade to come. This sort of DLC would help keep a new generation of consumers interested in buying BG's EEs. And it might actually end up being more lucrative for a small company than BG3 (although what developer wouldn't lick their chops at the chance to make BG3?)

    I should add that depending on who makes BG3 and what type of game it is (e.g., it might end up being 3D and a MMORPG for all we know), Beamdog's Infinity engine DLC for the EEs could well end up being a far better product.

    Will it be a direct continuation of the BG saga? No. I feel that the story of Gorion's Ward is basically finished; although some plot elements for a new tale about Bhaal's return can still have been set in motion by those events.

    In addition, I would love to see a totally new game set in FR as well. I don't envision WotC agreeing to use a retro ruleset for it, or using a pre-Spellplague FR as its setting, though.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
    JuliusBorisovkcwise
  • djcdjc Member Posts: 76
    I tend to think that the devs shouldn't be in any hurry in pursuing something like BG3. There are still plenty of issues to fix in the BG:EEs we already have. In addition many of us wouldn't really want a new BG game with different game mechanics, newer rulesets, etc. Instead it would be mighty fine to get more of what we already like: content for BG1/2. Expansion packs comparable in size to TotSC or ToB, that's what I'd like to see. There's still lots of water in that well.
  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,714
    I wonder why Phillip Daigle is visiting the WOTC office ;)



    Every meeting between Beamdog and WOTC has a huge meaning.

    The history shows something related to the Beamdog work always happens after such a meeting. For e.g., the Atari situation has been dealt with and the announcement of BG2:EE has come after one of these meetings.

    If it's an ordinary meeting, why did Phillip post a special tweet (that has been retweeted by Trent Oster)? :) This tweet, to me, illustrates something like: look at our team one last time ("one last shot") before the breaking meeting with the intellectual property owner (off to see WOTC - after that something will change).

    The fact that there're hashtags of BGEE, BG2EE and IWDEE adds some spice - it additionally points to the significance of the meeting because when Trent or Phillip tweet about a certain game they give the certain hashtag whether it's "IWDEE" only or "BGEE and BG2:EE".
    kcwiseLemernis
  • WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
    @Vitor said:

    Well... Throne of Bhaal IS Baldur's Gate III.
    I'm satisfied with the conclusion of the trilogy. Lv. 30 is beyond enough for me.

    What would really amuse me is a D&D RPG game that let you control a full party again (up to 6 characters, like in BG), and that have a classical look of the Forgotten Realms setting. Really, I can't stand looking to the banalization of Dragonborns, Genasis and Babylon Five Tieflings. Even drows got banalized. Look how Viconia was treated in Baldur's Gate (people tried to burn her), and compare to the freak population of Neverwinter Online.

    I like the fact that Dwarfs can't be Wizards, and that only Humans can be Paladins. Even armors seems awfully bright and polygonal for me in this new Fantasy RPGs. I prefere much more the grounded look, with armors and clothes closer to a more realistic medieval look. D&D had a look closer to Conan the Barbarian, or even Game of Thrones, until the end of the 90s. Now it's infected with World of Warcraft style... Yuck!

    There's not enough likes, agrees, and insightfuls I can give you for this statement.
    Vitor
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited September 2014

    Bhodar said:

    Just to stop people from thinking about CHARNAME returning.

    CHARNAME get's killed by or kills his/her last half-brother thought dead during a festival in Baldur's Gate, then one of em turns into a bhaalspawn and get's killed by adventurers.

    DnD The Sundering Part 1

    That reject is NOT Charname. The real Charname, OUR Charname, died from old age (if he/she is not part of a race that can live longer than a century) due to giving up him/her giving up Bhaal's taint to live as a mortal. Charname ascending as a god is not canonical.
    Sorry, if you are going to talk 'canon' Abdel Adrian *is* Charname.

    One of several reasons why I'm not interested in anything 5e Forgotten Realms-if MiBG was supposed to be WoTC idea of fanservice....
    I'm talking "canon" in the game, as in Minsc, Dynaheir, Khalid, Jaheira and Imoen are the canon party of BG1, NOT Wizards of the Coast's canon.

    Besides, if you recall in the intro of Shadows of Amn, the authorities of Baldur's Gate figured out Charname is a Bhaalspawn. Despite Charname's good deed, defeating Sarevok and all, why would they trust a Bhaalspawn, let alone continue to proclaim Charname as the Hero of Baldur's Gate? Charname left the Sword Coast for this reason, to avoid being executed for being a Bhaalspawn.

    In the novels, Abdel, however, remained in the clear, no one suspected him of being a Bhaalspawn for some reason, and they never did find out.
    Post edited by BladeDancer on
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2014
    In MiBG it is stated that by the time Abdel is attacked by Viekang at the age of 131, most of the current generation of residents in BG city have no idea that he is a Bhaalspawn. At first glance this seemed a bit unlikely to me since it is such a core ingredient to his legend--or so one might think. But IIRC MiBG says he didn't want it known, so he deemphasized it. One has to remember that as players of the BG series game we have the 'inside track' on events that few people in the world at the time probably understood in any coherent fashion. So maybe it is not so odd, after all. Perhaps only scholars know of it? Also, it is the blood of a dead god (as far as anyone knows) in Abdel's veins...

    Anyway, the explanation is that for the current generation Abdel came to be associated more with saving the city from a Flaming Fist coup--and for serving capably as Grand Duke for Life--than for defeating Sarevok and preventing a war with Amn as a youth. And although BG city survived the Spellplague relatively unscathed (one of the few locations that did) it is that global cataclysm that defined Toril going back several generations. So I guess it's not that all that odd after all that few people would remember that the Bhaalspawn fought one another way down in Tethyr for a couple of years over a century in the past, in a time before the Spellplague.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
  • WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
    edited September 2014
    wrong thread. disregard.
  • WigglesWiggles Member Posts: 571
    ***Spoilers; spoilers everywhere***

    Having read through the MiBG module only once a while ago, I kind of came to the conclusion that WotC used a partial canon for both game and 'novel'. I didn't even know their were 'novels' until two years ago so I've never read them.

    They kept the canon of the novels for Charname as: name of Abdel Adrian, he's a fighter, he's a bhaalspawn, he chose mortality instead of divinity. On the other hand, they seem to keep some things from the game as canon: they don't mention his lover(s), he mostly appears CG instead of -- well whatever the hell he was in the 'novels', there's a statue of Minsc in Baldur's Gate and he's bald and depicted as a great hero instead of the red haired waiter in the novels. Also the new Legends of Baldur's Gate comics give Minsc off as a grand adventurer; giving off that WotC said 'Oh @#$%, those 'books' really backed us into a corner with connecting Baldur's Gate (game) to 5th edition."

    To me it appears that WotC realized that the canon of everything in the 'novels' was garbage, but they wanted to connect with fans of the Baldur's Gate game to make this module to sell 5th edition D&D. Their objective in my opinion was to use the best of both worlds to make the garbage Abdel at least bearable.

    In hindsight it doesn't really matter in the end (cause we're all doomed). This is because at the end of the module both he and Viekang die from either the other or from the low level PC party. So if you don't like either the 'improved' Abdel or the 'garbage' Abdel: he dies (and there was much rejoicing).

    ...yay...
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,315
    Probably don't need two different BG3 threads active. :)
    Wiggles
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2014
    Merged. (Before this I had thought it was the same thread!)
    Post edited by Lemernis on
    WiggleselminsterJuliusBorisov
  • BGLoverBGLover Member Posts: 550
    There seem to be two different strands to this discussion... what people want, and what they think is likely.

    What I think will happen is a hard one to answer..... but I think it entirely comes down to money. Is there money in them there 'BG3' hills?

    What I want is much easier..... I want another game like BG/BG2! Controlling up to six characters, NPC interaction, a cracking storyline, magic items, sub quests, endless character options etc etc etc. If I get all those things, am I bothered about whether it's called BG3 or something else? Not really. So long as the storyline is epic and exciting and thrilling and draws me back again and again and again, I will be happy! And if I'm still playing the game in 10/15 years time, then it will be job done.


    Wiggles
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Lemernis said:

    I'm doubtful about Wizards authorizing use of the Infinity engine for anything other than BG[2]EE DLC, though.

    Why? Do they not trust anyone to make a good game? That's a strange thing to wish were true, and a bold claim to make without any backing reasons. I can be made to understand too, so a small reason would help.
    Wiggles
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    I would like to see a BG 3 but I would like to see someone other than beamdog take on the project.

    BD is slow, slow, slow to patch and they manage the forum so as ensure that critical threads never pick any steam. Take the 'you say like it is good thing' thread. Even though everyone was polite and no forum rules were broken the thread was locked -- just because a moderator thought everyone had already had their say. Critics are treated like trolls.

    I think this article that Trent Oster tweeted sums up the company's attitude towards its customers -- " . . . You are worthless to us . . ."

    http://www.puppygames.net/blog/?p=1574#more-1574

    (btw, I will give a company 60 bucks for a game with as much content as BG 2 had)

    And I recently read that the one new NPC I really liked -- Neera -- was written by another studio. Why not have that studio take over the license?

    Not saying that I won't buy another BD product -- right now they are only ones making the sort of D&D games I want to play -- but I'd be that much happier if a different company made the Baldur's Gate sequel.
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2014
    Dazzu said:

    Lemernis said:

    I'm doubtful about Wizards authorizing use of the Infinity engine for anything other than BG[2]EE DLC, though.

    Why? Do they not trust anyone to make a good game? That's a strange thing to wish were true, and a bold claim to make without any backing reasons. I can be made to understand too, so a small reason would help.
    Because it's an ancient game engine, is where I was coming from. I would think that a new game developer would respect that the Infinity engine games has a diehard core of followers, but would regard it as too primitive for a new game (even overhauled as it was by Beamdog). It's not hi-res, for one thing. 2D isometric with a fixed camera may make a comeback (depending on how Pillars of Eternity actually does). But the primitive look and low resolution (blobs of pixels for faces, sometimes walking forward at a 45 degree angle, the horrendous pathfinding, for example) would be a deal-breaker I would think.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
    Wiggles
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Not so. Retro look is all the rage these days. Megaman 9/10 were hits, Shovel Knight is popular as hell... think of what the thought of nostalgia alone could sell with the right amount/kind of marketing.
    killerrabbit
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    edited September 2014
    Retro done new is one thing. Using an ancient game engine is another. I recall Beamdog's devs telling us early on that the Infinity engine is a total beast to work with. They stated then that if they were to get the contract to make BG3 that they would build from the ground up. That was also due to the discovery that the original 3D artwork had been lost. (Thus making HD impossible.) Maybe their feelings have changed since then. But it would depend also on the other partners.

    Don't get me wrong! I'd love to see Beamdog rebuild the infinity engine from the ground up using today's tools. I just don't believe WotC sees it the way we do. (That is, they're more likely to insist on promoting the current ruleset at the time of release, which will probably be Edition Next.) Time will tell, though.
    Post edited by Lemernis on
    Wiggles
  • killerrabbitkillerrabbit Member Posts: 402
    I think the idea of expanding ToB has merit and I would really like to see it done by someone. I don't blame Bioware for the problems with ToB -- David Gaider put in lots of unpaid hours to make sure that the game was a good it as it could be -- but it isn't a great conclusion to the series.

    I'd prefer that it be an infinity engine game just because the proof of the pudding is in the eating. One can list all the merits of other engines // all the deficits of the infinity engine but this engine has the X factor -- it is just fun to play. You can't beat Skyrim's graphics but actual gameplay is kinda dull.

    If it isn't an infinity engine game it should be done by company that is willing to load it down with content. BG2 had everything but the kitchen sink and any BG 3 -- bhaalspawn story or not -- needs to live up to that standard. It needs to give players loads 'o content.
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 950
    Get the rights to the Pool of Radiance/Curse of Azure Bonds/Secret of the Silver Blade/Pools of Darkness: BAM! 4 games worth of revenue right there, and the script was written long ago! Turn it into a party building game ala IWD. The story is already writen, and the nostalgia will sell like crazy. Just get a strong voice cast, especially for Sasha

    You could also do the same for Gateway to/Treasures of the Savage Frontier, but Krevish was a huge dork!
  • ballsackattackballsackattack Member Posts: 27
    Code named Jefferson and FR6, was mentioned in early 2001 as a new game in the Baldur’s Gate series to be made by Black Isle Studios using a completely new 3D engine. BG3 was originally going to be a departure from the high-powered epic of the Bhaalspawn saga to a low-key, roleplaying plot. With protagonists progressing to around level four at the end of BIS’ typically enormous campaign and a hard cap at level eight, gameplay was refocussed to a flat and wide adventure emphasizing quests over combat.

    The game appeared to be canceled in 2003, just before its engine was re-purposed for Black Isle’s ill-fated Van Buren Fallout 3 project. The Black Hound is currently under development as a module for Neverwinter Nights 2, being developed by Josh Sawyer, one of the designers of the canceled game.

    Much controversy over the game has been growing. Now comon who dosnt want a new baldurs gate, it wouldnt deal with the previous games well for the simple fact they were finished with TOB. We could start a new, maybe a rpg in waterdeep or some area. Well the name bauldurs gate would be irrelivent for that then a new story in bauldurs gate. Something like the fist finally going to war with amn and your a soldier rising to power and you choose your side at the begging, Amnish or Fist. A concept of many that would definatley rake in fans and cash.

    I ask for maybe some feedback and if your creative, what would be your plot/storyline idea for a baldurs gate three???(:
  • SethDavisSethDavis Member Posts: 1,812
    O_O Level 4? There would be riots....
    rufus_hobartmeaglothCrevsDaakAnduin
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