Thats what I wanted to know about was what classes work. I think the reason I got so frustrated about the games was probably because I DONT and I really mean DONT know what I am doing designing a party. I just as much figure that the party will find a way to work.
I used a swashbuckler lvl 10 and imoen as a lvl 10 thief to melee sarevok and it worked because sarevok I figured a loophole in melee.
Fighter/cleric Sorcerer Swashbuckler Or Blade
I kind of assumed that if you've beaten BG1 eight times then you would know, because good party composition isn't *that* different. I'm not an expert on IWD as I've only beaten it the once, so I don't know how critical a thief is for example. Generally you are going to be facing more hordes of weaker enemies. If all you use is cheese to get by then you will find yourself stuck in situations where it doesn't work.
Maybe someone with better knowledge can tell you how trap and lock laden IWD is, and the relative advantages/disadvantages of a small but high exp party fairs, but otherwise that party works. Personally, I would take a F/T over a Swash and a F/Illusionist over a Blade but that's just me optimising, that party will work.
The caveat is that if you don't know the spell system well then you are likely to make poor spell choices with your sorcerer that you can't go back on. Something like a fighter dualed at level 2 to a mage would be more robust.
I'm not an expert on IWD as I've only beaten it the once, so I don't know how critical a thief is for example. Generally you are going to be facing more hordes of weaker enemies. If all you use is cheese to get by then you will find yourself stuck in situations where it doesn't work.
You *can* go without a thief but some areas are absolutely terrible.
For example, at the Yuan-ti area, you will find multitude of traps that do not disappear after getting triggered with stun and poison effects, you can also not sleep in the area and need to cross the traps again to go to previous area and back. And on top of that, the end of the dungeon has a very hard boss for the level which will, at least for me, require quite a bit of cheese to kill if you start the fight at low hp.
Dknight, start playing with 5 or 6 characters until u get the hang of it in bg 1 and bg2, then when icewind dale ee comes out you will be fine. think outside the box when approaching battles, learn those spells and just have fun
"-In addition to the magical physical protections, mages like to use Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility, Dimension Door, Mislead, and Project Image. These illusion spells not only make the mage hard or impossible to hit, Improved Invisibility will make him or her untargetable by spells, including Breach. So, casting the counterspell True Sight is a priority action for my cleric in a mage battle, if I don't have Keldorn. I prefer to have Keldorn so he can cast True Sight on the first round. If my cleric has to do it, it may be necessary to cast it before the mage(s) can Breach."
Having a Thief with some points into Detect Illusion can really help here, @Dknight. 100 points=100% chance to succeed.
It removes illusion effects, it doesn't just detect them.
I agree. So would a swashbuckler or blade better for a 3 party with Fighter and cleric/mage? I already have healing/firepower and a tank. What would be better for a backup fighter? Stealth from swash or spellcasting and fighting from blade?
One thing we don't know yet about IWD:EE is how the new BG2 magic system is going to be implemented for enemy mages. All the advice here will apply to IWD:EE if the IWD mages are now going to behave like BG2 mages.
I dont mind that they add a few extras. I only got sad/frustrated when I read they would add more. I initially thought it was going to be worse/on par with irenicus hell fight. I got him to near death but couldnt get further and slayer ran out.
The rest of the game was easy with 2 full clerics and 1 thief/illusionist.
One thing we don't know yet about IWD:EE is how the new BG2 magic system is going to be implemented for enemy mages. All the advice here will apply to IWD:EE if the IWD mages are now going to behave like BG2 mages.
@DKnight After reading through all posts regarding your difficulties, and even though a lot of people have pointed it out, I still have to ask: You are aware you can (and is supposed to) pause at any time during a fight? Pause is your friend, and you can assign all party members to use their abilities etc. Makes life a lot easier.
Beside that I would really recommend having a single class fighter-class to tank and deal out melee for you. Either a fighter or paladin (Keldorn rocks!)
@DKnight Several people have mentioned pausing and the auto-pause options in the game. Almost every time someone brings up pausing, unless I'm missing something, you simply ignore it in your response. The one time you didn't do so was in your other thread on this topic when you said:
Im sorry for acting like a jerk. Its just frustrating as I can't seem to control parties well like the rest of you. Its sad because my best characters are usually when I solo with single/dual class thief or maybe use another party member.
Its moreso ridiculous as Icewind Dale just handed me my sword a week ago. Im terrible. I'll try and use auto pause but I don't know how much that will help.
Understand that here is a ranger who was destroying enemies left and right. With him and Rasaad against Sarevok and Tazok, its like my guys are terrible and the bad guys are like Tyson and Ali. Luckily I just beat the fight, but not after 15 reloads.
I put the relevant bit in bold. After that, you didn't post anything else in that thread. Are you pausing the game, issuing orders to party members, and then unpausing? Are you using the auto-pause features such as auto-pausing after each round (which sort of makes the combat turn-based). The combat is based on a turn-based system, it uses rounds, and among the many auto-pause options is the option to pause at each round... So, have you tried the auto-pause features or not? If not, you definitely should do so and see if it helps (I think it will).
@DKnight Several people have mentioned pausing and the auto-pause options in the game. Almost every time someone brings up pausing, unless I'm missing something, you simply ignore it in your response. The one time you didn't do so was in your other thread on this topic when you said:
Im sorry for acting like a jerk. Its just frustrating as I can't seem to control parties well like the rest of you. Its sad because my best characters are usually when I solo with single/dual class thief or maybe use another party member.
Its moreso ridiculous as Icewind Dale just handed me my sword a week ago. Im terrible. I'll try and use auto pause but I don't know how much that will help.
Understand that here is a ranger who was destroying enemies left and right. With him and Rasaad against Sarevok and Tazok, its like my guys are terrible and the bad guys are like Tyson and Ali. Luckily I just beat the fight, but not after 15 reloads.
I put the relevant bit in bold. After that, you didn't post anything else in that thread. Are you pausing the game, issuing orders to party members, and then unpausing? Are you using the auto-pause features such as auto-pausing after each round (which sort of makes the combat turn-based). The combat is based on a turn-based system, it uses rounds, and among the many auto-pause options is the option to pause at each round... So, have you tried the auto-pause features or not? If not, you definitely should do so and see if it helps (I think it will).
Im using what you said. Im using pause and give orders. Its just that when I do everything I'm supposed to and have the proper builds that I am supposed to, the game SHOULD not be a challenge.
The only game I like playing now is Baldurs Gate 1 EEdition. Planescape is too hard, as is Baldurs Gate 2 EE, IWDale 1 and 2 impossible likely.
Just put it this way, when I want to play a game to enjoy, I don't want to have to reload every fight. The game is ONLY good when I know the game so well it is a challenge but not tedious.
Baldurs Gate 1 is perfect for a game Kotor 1 and 2 are perfect for game
I can solo those games OR play with a party.
Planescape Torment, Baldurs gate 2 are impossible for me with a party of 4. They are easier than goblin pie with solo. I can solo any of those 4 games with little to no effort.
IWdale 2 I got to chapter 3 solo cleric/thief. IWDAle 1 I could probably solo.
The problem I have is when I want to play with a party like everyone else, I try and then get fucked.
You know, if you were able to at least get up to Irenicus with a full party, then I'm surprised you are having trouble with Planescape.
All of these games are totally completable with any number of party members, and without needing to reload constantly. I'm sure you'll get better at it eventually. Don't give up!
Also, I don't really see your issue about reloading. Honestly, if I finally beat Sarevok after losing to him like 15 times, that would be really satisfying.
I think this guy is just making a scene. PS:T is a great game and I think it is still my favorite out of all the IE games. Its definitely in my top 5. I don't get that he complains when he can't play the game with a party but when he is alone he is fine. Usually its the other way around that when you're solo its harder and in a group it's easier. I definitely believe we are crossing over a bridge right now.
I would like to remind everyone about the forum rules and not going personal in your comments.
@DKnight is just having several problems with BG2 fights. Instead of exploring if this is trolling or not, let's just give him some advice. It's quite understandable to have problems with high-level enemies in BG2 and not every player successfully manages to find out how to use buff/debuff spells, potions and other items.
I actually tried to keep it from getting personal (and thought I did quite well too) cause I know forums can get really bad, but I guess not? Honestly if you're having trouble just do what I do and look up solutions or as an alternative turn the difficultly down for one fight or even reload till you figure it out. However I'll just keep reading and not posting since I am quite blunt and I am bound to step on some nerves on the internet.
@DKnight For PST, a tip would be to go high int/wis/cha. That way you can finish almost the whole game without a single fight through dialogue.
If you think PST is too hard, try a different playstyle and go different stats. For me the game has always been much much more rewarding going high in int/wis as it gives so many more dialogue options and faster XP gain.
The few fights you do end up in will be a walk in the park.
I'm really not sure how to react to you. My gut response is to flame you for wallowing in self-pity, and quite possibly trolling.
However, benefit of the doubt, many people have suggested that you experiment with auto-pausing, to this I add trying to press the space bar, going with smaller groups, and perhaps soloing a Fighter/Mage/Thief. FMTs have to be elven (I think, perhaps also half-elven), so you may not have seen them if you never play elves. Fighters are pretty straightforward, and the thief class you claim to have sorted, although perhaps you should learn to love backstabbing more. Mages cant cast if they're finely spread over the walls. To this you're adding the mage class, so you can learn the magic system at your own pace. To start perhaps just cast stoneskin, and then don your thief armor, or even your fighter's full plate.
That said, there are more excellent games available now than there have ever been, so you really don't have to play games you don't like. Can I suggest XCom:Enemy unknown & enemy within, Fallout tactics, and any of the Civilisations. All of them are turn based strategy games, and well worth a go.
Expecting a gamer of this generation to do what you just said to do is never going to happen.
This is kinda condescending. There are more gamers now than there have ever been, and while it is true that many are recreational gamers, there are still millions of gamers of all ages who are capable of overcoming quite substantial challenges. The fact that many games present only token challenges means only that they are aimed at the recreational group, not that all games should roll over and do the same.
In Planescape Torment, if the enemies are too tough, just run past them. There are very few enemies who you actually need to beat, and even if this means you won't get much experience from beating enemies, there is still a lot of quest experience to obtain.
@DKnight In IWD:EE if you are having problems with the battles you will be able to turn on story mode, that will allow you to enjoy the game without having to reload all the time.
Im sorry if i sound like a fool and a pain. Im just going to go with the tips given in this threads and other threads about parties that work. It was foolish of me to make this thread in the first place and i feel awful. Im just going to follow a set idea that works. The game is probably more hard in my mind rather than in actuality. If anything the kits give all of us a severe advantage.
Hopefully the swashbuckler kit will stay the same which is likely as Im hoping so. Thank you all for the tips and sorry.
Im sorry if i sound like a fool and a pain. Im just going to go with the tips given in this threads and other threads about parties that work. It was foolish of me to make this thread in the first place and i feel awful. Im just going to follow a set idea that works. The game is probably more hard in my mind rather than in actuality. If anything the kits give all of us a severe advantage.
Hopefully the swashbuckler kit will stay the same which is likely as Im hoping so. Thank you all for the tips and sorry.
Don't sweat it! I'm an IWD noob as well so these forums are a great tool to prepare for the game.
The one thing noted on most roleplaying games-I usually get stuck and get frustrated but here's the interesting thing. I always come back almost 90% of the time no matter how it takes. If you dont like the game you wont come back, but usually if you like the game 9/10s out of 10, you will finish it.
Comments
Maybe someone with better knowledge can tell you how trap and lock laden IWD is, and the relative advantages/disadvantages of a small but high exp party fairs, but otherwise that party works. Personally, I would take a F/T over a Swash and a F/Illusionist over a Blade but that's just me optimising, that party will work.
The caveat is that if you don't know the spell system well then you are likely to make poor spell choices with your sorcerer that you can't go back on. Something like a fighter dualed at level 2 to a mage would be more robust.
For example, at the Yuan-ti area, you will find multitude of traps that do not disappear after getting triggered with stun and poison effects, you can also not sleep in the area and need to cross the traps again to go to previous area and back. And on top of that, the end of the dungeon has a very hard boss for the level which will, at least for me, require quite a bit of cheese to kill if you start the fight at low hp.
There's a thread about it here:
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/34409/most-important-iwdee-issue-can-ai-mages-use-bg2-spells-effectively/p1
The rest of the game was easy with 2 full clerics and 1 thief/illusionist.
After reading through all posts regarding your difficulties, and even though a lot of people have pointed it out, I still have to ask: You are aware you can (and is supposed to) pause at any time during a fight? Pause is your friend, and you can assign all party members to use their abilities etc. Makes life a lot easier.
Beside that I would really recommend having a single class fighter-class to tank and deal out melee for you. Either a fighter or paladin (Keldorn rocks!)
The only game I like playing now is Baldurs Gate 1 EEdition. Planescape is too hard, as is Baldurs Gate 2 EE, IWDale 1 and 2 impossible likely.
Just put it this way, when I want to play a game to enjoy, I don't want to have to reload every fight. The game is ONLY good when I know the game so well it is a challenge but not tedious.
Baldurs Gate 1 is perfect for a game
Kotor 1 and 2 are perfect for game
I can solo those games OR play with a party.
Planescape Torment, Baldurs gate 2 are impossible for me with a party of 4. They are easier than goblin pie with solo. I can solo any of those 4 games with little to no effort.
IWdale 2 I got to chapter 3 solo cleric/thief. IWDAle 1 I could probably solo.
The problem I have is when I want to play with a party like everyone else, I try and then get fucked.
All of these games are totally completable with any number of party members, and without needing to reload constantly. I'm sure you'll get better at it eventually. Don't give up!
Also, I don't really see your issue about reloading. Honestly, if I finally beat Sarevok after losing to him like 15 times, that would be really satisfying.
@DKnight is just having several problems with BG2 fights. Instead of exploring if this is trolling or not, let's just give him some advice. It's quite understandable to have problems with high-level enemies in BG2 and not every player successfully manages to find out how to use buff/debuff spells, potions and other items.
For PST, a tip would be to go high int/wis/cha.
That way you can finish almost the whole game without a single fight through dialogue.
If you think PST is too hard, try a different playstyle and go different stats. For me the game has always been much much more rewarding going high in int/wis as it gives so many more dialogue options and faster XP gain.
The few fights you do end up in will be a walk in the park.
However, benefit of the doubt, many people have suggested that you experiment with auto-pausing, to this I add trying to press the space bar, going with smaller groups, and perhaps soloing a Fighter/Mage/Thief. FMTs have to be elven (I think, perhaps also half-elven), so you may not have seen them if you never play elves. Fighters are pretty straightforward, and the thief class you claim to have sorted, although perhaps you should learn to love backstabbing more. Mages cant cast if they're finely spread over the walls. To this you're adding the mage class, so you can learn the magic system at your own pace. To start perhaps just cast stoneskin, and then don your thief armor, or even your fighter's full plate.
That said, there are more excellent games available now than there have ever been, so you really don't have to play games you don't like. Can I suggest XCom:Enemy unknown & enemy within, Fallout tactics, and any of the Civilisations. All of them are turn based strategy games, and well worth a go. This is kinda condescending. There are more gamers now than there have ever been, and while it is true that many are recreational gamers, there are still millions of gamers of all ages who are capable of overcoming quite substantial challenges. The fact that many games present only token challenges means only that they are aimed at the recreational group, not that all games should roll over and do the same.
As for PST, walking whilst chewing gum is more challenging.
Hopefully the swashbuckler kit will stay the same which is likely as Im hoping so. Thank you all for the tips and sorry.
The IE games can be pretty hard for new players, so there's nothing wrong in asking questions.
Wisdom is only possessed by the learned!