Why do people say that the Q-Staff is the best back stabbing weapon?

Zirus_Blackheart

Why do people say that the Q-Staff is the best back stabbing weapon?
Ive read it but can't find an actual reason :-s its hit is only 1d6 when compared to the 1d8 of the Scimitar set

meagloth

yea, I dunno either. something about two-handedness, I think.

Dee

Two-Handed Weapon Style gives you a damage bonus, an expanded crit range, and a speed factor reduction, making it hit both harder and faster--both good things to have when you're backstabbing. A fighter/thief with two points in each of Quarterstaff and Two-Handed Weapon Style comes out of Candlekeep with a 1d6+1 weapon that has a speed factor of 0 and crits on a 19 or 20. Definitely nothing to sneeze at.

Dexter

Blunt weapons are great because most monsters have worse AC modifiers against them (i.e chain mail modifiers is -2 vs slashing, +2 vs blunt), and blunt damage resistance is quite rare. Besides...

There's a kick ass quartestaff in BG2 which is just taylor made for backstabbing.

Zirus_Blackheart

oh wow cool! :-D

DreadKhan

There is also a +3 QS in BG1, and some very scary backthwacking staves in BG1. One does d8+3 base damage.

[Deleted User]

In addition, quarterstaves with high enhancements bonuses are easy to come by early in either game. BG1 has a +3 Quarterstaff in a store, and BG2 has a +4 Quarterstaff in a store, both of which can be accessed early in their respective games. These weapons are easy to acquire, provide a sizable attack bonus (makes it easier to land the attack with Thief THAC0), have a decent damage bonus (raises your minimum damage to make good backstabs more reliable), and have very low speed factors (so you can make the attack right away instead of flailing around first).

Also, the backstab-capable weapon with the highest single hit damage potential in the game happens to be a quarterstaff, so there's that too.

Dee

That Staff of Rynn +4 saved my party's hides on more than one occassion.

lunar

They also have a reach better than daggers and swords, that is, you don't need to be very close to the target when attacking with a staff. With a dagger, you need to be almost touching the target. If the target survives the backstab attempt, he may turn around and gore you quickly:especialy if the enemy is a type with the 'bad touch' effect like a ghoul or vampire, you really don't want to suffer that kind of reteliaton. With a quarterstaff you are in a safer distance when attacking and can run away more easily after the attack.

Archaos

When a QuarterSTAFF is a better backSTABBING weapon than daggers, you know that there's something really wrong with the rules.

Nimran

Archaos said:

When a QuarterSTAFF is a better backSTABBING weapon than daggers, you know that there's something really wrong with the rules.

Backstaffing.

meagloth

Dexter said:

Blunt weapons are great because most monsters have worse AC modifiers against them (i.e chain mail modifiers is -2 vs slashing, +2 vs blunt), and blunt damage resistance is quite rare. Besides...

There's a kick ass quartestaff in BG2 which is just taylor made for backstabbing.

The staff of striking is in both games, and does 1d6+9 or something similarly crazy. It works on charges though, so once you get about 20 hits it disappears. This makes it a real tragedy when you forget to switch it out after an awesome backstab.

Klorox

Archaos said:

When a QuarterSTAFF is a better backSTABBING weapon than daggers, you know that there's something really wrong with the rules.

Even in 2e, when it was still called backstabbing (it's since been changed to a sneak attack) the description made it quite clear that it was a strike at a vulnerable spot on an opponent.

God

Also, cleric/thief.

Schneidend

Archaos said:

When a QuarterSTAFF is a better backSTABBING weapon than daggers, you know that there's something really wrong with the rules.

Slipping a knife between the ribs and twisting versus cracking you over the skull with a big stick. Both are typically lethal, but one uses a larger implement.

JuliusBorisov

Nimran said:

Backstaffing

Actually, the backstaff is a navigational instrument that was used to measure the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the sun or moon.

Nimran

bengoshi said:

Nimran said:

Backstaffing

Actually, the backstaff is a navigational instrument that was used to measure the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the sun or moon.

Oh no, it's taken!

lunar

Actually, crushing the back of the skull with a staff (or club) is more deadly than a frontal assault, since brain stem is there and a heavy blunt trauma can crush it more easily. The brainstem has many basic functions including sleeping, eating etc. AND vital functions such as heart rate and breathing. I would prefer getting shot/hit in front of my skull, rather than the back, since survival rates are better from the front. The same attack or trauma can incapacitate from front, but can utterly kill when targeted to the back of the skull.

With daggers or stabbing weapons, I assume backstabbers go for kidneys since they bleed so fast and efficiently. With a staff, it is one clean, targeted, pin-point big THUD to the back of the skull, which is a very deadly attack indeed. Other crushing weapons such as flail, morningstar etc. lack the finesse to pin-point the impact on the brain stem, so they can't be used in backstabs.

Lateralus

Also, the quarterstaff is ideal for backstabbing because the murder weapon can quickly be concealed after attacking with it. It doesn't stick out like a sore thumb or nothing like that. Hiding in shadows? Should be a +10% bonus with a 6 foot pole in your hands.

FinneousPJ

@Lateralus‌ The staff is hidden in plain sight, obviously. Think Gandalf, "You wouldn't part an old man from his walking stick" type of thing.

Mathsorcerer

If you are going to stab someone in the back with some sort of bladed weapon then the kidneys are a good place, yes, but ideally you want to slip the weapon in between ribs about halfway down the ribcage; this will maximize the likelihood that you puncture a lung, which is even deadlier than piercing the kidney or liver. The shock of the pain combined with the suddenly decreased ability to breathe and/or cry out makes for a more efficient downing of a target.
If you have successfully managed to be stealthy enough to sneak up behind your target then you might also consider stabbing into the side of the neck, severing either the jugular vein or the carotid artery (depending upon what side you target). You will also likely sever the larynx and/or the trachea, making anything other than collapsing and bleeding out impossible.

The phrase "backstab" is a misnomer and doesn't necessarily mean "only piercing weapons are allowed". As @lunar‌ notes any sort of attack against someone from behind is significantly more deadly--they have no warning and no time to prepare themselves for it. Standing there, minding their own business, keeping an eye out for ne'er-do-wells, when *wham* something hits them in the back of the head. They won't even know it when they pass out.

DreadKhan

Carotid is very messy to cut... shoots blood like an anime movie when cut. If you don't mind getting dirty, its fine.

Regarding collapsing a lung, if your knife is fairly long (a dagger rather than a knife) you can collapse both by stabbing from the side. Pro move!

Klorox

Any artery squirts like that. It's neat to see.

As for puncturing two lungs in one shot, I think it might be pretty tough to do, without killing the victim outright (you'd almost definitely hit the heart or aorta with such a strike).

scriver

Yeah because when you're trying to puncture both lungs of some poor bloke surely you're worried about whether the stab might kill him "outright" as well :P

Lateralus

FinneousPJ said:

@Lateralus‌ The staff is hidden in plain sight, obviously. Think Gandalf, "You wouldn't part an old man from his walking stick" type of thing.

Riiiiight...because his arthritic grace combined with a cumbersome 6 foot pole is ideal for sneaking around tight corners-clinging to the shadows-and then striking quickly without needing 10 feet of head room to properly swing the 6 foot pole. Gaurds will say, "You there! Yes you, old man in bright white robes skulking in the shaows rather poorly. Is that brain matter on your walking stick?"

Fireball.

Anduin

bengoshi said:

Nimran said:

Backstaffing

Actually, the backstaff is a navigational instrument that was used to measure the altitude of a celestial body, in particular the sun or moon.

If I ever get my hands on one. I am so backstabbing with it! One spine breaker right there!

Nimran

@Anduin‌ so many different pointy ends to choose from.

DreadKhan

Klorox said:

Any artery squirts like that. It's neat to see.

As for puncturing two lungs in one shot, I think it might be pretty tough to do, without killing the victim outright (you'd almost definitely hit the heart or aorta with such a strike).

Well, the carotid carries blood to the brain, so it carries a LOT of blood, and it has little tissue to interfere with the spurting, so its pretty showey. As for hitting both lungs, yeah, they are not surviving that. The idea though is removing the ability to shout, and even 1 collapsed lung will probably serve. But 2 is better.

SCARY_WIZARD

I like to imagine the instant kills from backstabs executed with swords are caused by using the cross guard as a weapon. Goes through the helmet, goes through the arming cap, hair, flesh, skull, brain...only an Undead creature could walk away from that.
Strikes to the sinuses with a pommel would work, but that's a frontal attack, and not a backstab...

But yes, let's not forget that a staff is blunt, and blunt trauma can liquefy organs, especially when you've got a pretty strong source of said trauma... I'd go into MATHS!, but I ain't know none that physics or mathological stuff. Suffice to say that a character with 16+ Strength (well above the Human average) and an enchanted staff (striking, wounding) striking a weak spot (backstab!) with a lot of force (critical hit)...something's gonna look gross.

Err, otherwise, yes, backstabs and the staff of striking are all fun and games until you've tried it, then it's fun and games and a basket of Elven Hound puppies who want tummy rubs and to play!

smeagolheart

somebody post the maths of the potential damage qstaff vs. dagger vs. scimitar etc.

I'm sure somebody has the graph.

kcwise

"Your honor, you have to believe me. I was just reading about Baldur's Gate, not learning about assassination techniques!"