Absolutely, PNP is a living, breathing game. A human DM will run the world appropriate to the story, characters, villains and unexpected developments along the way. And that could mean no artificial urgency either. The pace of the adventure and story should be organic and real.
Technically speaking the current sorcerer shouldn't exist because it's based on the 3rd edition sorcerer rather then the 2nd edition one.
The 2nd edition sorcerer (from Netheril supplement, the post-fall adapted version) is basically just a variant mage. They work exactly the same as a mage except they don't require memorization, but as a penalty they can only learn a tiny number of spells. They're otherwise the same. They get the same spells per day, they still learn new spells from scrolls, they can even specialize in a school of magic, but instead of being able to have theoretically unlimited known spells via spellbooks they can only know 1 spell per spell slot per spell level and once learned it can never be changed.
The mage is more versatile in the long run because they can change which spells they know to fit the situation, where as the sorcerer is more versatile in the short-term since they don't have to plan ahead for the day as long as they know a few useful spells for a broad range of situations.
So I'm playing a duo game with my friend on insane with him as an Avenger Druid and myself as a Swashbuckler 5/Mage. I'm rapidly approaching level 5 now but won't my first level 3 spell for a little while (haste in Kress' tomb) and won't really be happy until I have fireball (dragons eye level 1).
Then we have to make it to the 3rd level of dragons eye for my first 4th level spell - confusion. After that I can stop caring as we can duck in HoW to pick up some scrolls at our leisure.
I honestly don't even get this thread. Fireball and haste are early. Confusion is a good (enough) spell and that's quick. 5th and above are all available in HoW. What is the issue exactly?
I honestly don't even get this thread. Fireball and haste are early. Confusion is a good (enough) spell and that's quick. 5th and above are all available in HoW. What is the issue exactly?
People complain that in the middle of the wilderness you can't find tomes of scrolls just waiting for some lucky party made of arcane spellcasters to pick them up and use them against their own current owners (the fools).
I mean, come on. The mage in Bondari's party killed a dragon with only a magic missile. Surely you can do better. Remember, if nothing else works, even Bondari reloaded.
The problem is, the original game had no sorcerer and the scroll scarity destroys any advantage a mage would have over a sorcerer. At least when playing on insane. The disadvantage of a sorcerer is that he has limited spell selection and gets acess to new spell levels one level late. Both of those disadvantages apply to the mage too with the scroll scarity.
The other problem is that the game was not designed with the double xp of insane in mind. Its one of the things like so many in IE games thrown in without much thought.
a wizard caps at almost 8 spell slot/level (9 if specialised) so they also have that over a sorcerer you need to decide if your character's quest for ultimate power is worth the hassle throughout most of the game or not... I usually play a dragon disciple both rp-wise and combat-wise (extra toughness/ability to tank if properly buffed), leaving all found/bought scrolls to a grinning bard
The other problem is that the game was not designed with the double xp of insane in mind. Its one of the things like so many in IE games thrown in without much thought.
This can't be stressed often enough. The distibultion of scrolls is exptionally well worked out if you play the game on core rules with a full team (and play the expansion pack after completing the original story). It's the higher diffiulty settings (not just HOF) that are poorly designed.
The "Orrick" bug can sometimes cause a problem in the EE though.
The other problem is that the game was not designed with the double xp of insane in mind. Its one of the things like so many in IE games thrown in without much thought.
This can't be stressed often enough. The distibultion of scrolls is exptionally well worked out if you play the game on core rules with a full team (and play the expansion pack after completing the original story). It's the higher diffiulty settings (not just HOF) that are poorly designed.
The "Orrick" bug can sometimes cause a problem in the EE though.
I wouldn't say poorly designed. I'd say not designed at all. They were introduced to silence some very noisy players on BIS boards. The same people complained about HoW being too short, so BIS gave them the free add-on Trial of the Luremaster, which is long and borders boredom supreme (like face palm).
That Orrick bug is very annoying though. In my current run, I reached Dorn's Deep (chapter 4) and the items that should show up did, but the items that should show up on Chapter 2 are not there (and those are the nicest items you can buy from him, Wand of Freezing Death, Rogue Cowl and Ring of Shocking Grasp).
(Slightly offtopic, but surely there's nothing special about that wand and the ring? What's so great about a few charges of 1st level spell that late in the game?)
(Slightly offtopic, but surely there's nothing special about that wand and the ring? What's so great about a few charges of 1st level spell that late in the game?)
A wand that allows you to cast Ice Storm and Snowballs can be quite useful in Dragon's Eye. As for ring of Shocking Grasp, that spell was one of the best level 1. It has 1d8 +1 Damage/level of the caster. The most annoying thing that EE did was to modify it from what it was in the original IWD game to what it does in BG1&2. That is it now requires a successful touch attack. Originally this spell always hit. The spell is even greater in IWD2 due to Scion of Storms feat which grants extra damage to electrical spells.
And a ring that allows the caster to use it 4 times/day, well, that was amazing to have (in battle plenty of times spellcasters are finding themselves with enemies close by.
a wizard caps at almost 8 spell slot/level (9 if specialised) so they also have that over a sorcerer you need to decide if your character's quest for ultimate power is worth the hassle throughout most of the game or not... I usually play a dragon disciple both rp-wise and combat-wise (extra toughness/ability to tank if properly buffed), leaving all found/bought scrolls to a grinning bard
I'd have assumed that IWDee follows the BG charts but I could be wrong? It would certainly marginalise sorcerers if that was the case unless they had a new spell progression designed for them just for IWDee?
According to IWD EE Manual Sorcerers and Mages do in fact have different spell progression. Page 384 and 385. The mage gets access to next level spells earlier. But the sorcerer has more per day spells of same level and lower. Until like level 27 or something like that.
Its pretty strange. Mage gets level 2,3,4,5 before Sorc. But 6,7,8,9 they are at the same time. Then early Sord gets more spells per day he just knows less spells.
But the gear and scrolls in shop should be based upon level and not Chapter if a shops items is set to change. But if this wasn't something that could be changed in EE. Then its no big deal. But it is peculiar.
Mages are a challenge, as are Wizard Slayers. Some classes start out really weak. I got my mage up to level 11 and started finding good spells and useful items in Dorn's Deep. By the time I finished the game I had level 7, 8 and 9 spells that the mage knew but could not cast yet. They eally do get powerful at high levels but they are very weak and must be protected when they are low level.
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And that could mean no artificial urgency either. The pace of the adventure and story should be organic and real.
The 2nd edition sorcerer (from Netheril supplement, the post-fall adapted version) is basically just a variant mage. They work exactly the same as a mage except they don't require memorization, but as a penalty they can only learn a tiny number of spells. They're otherwise the same. They get the same spells per day, they still learn new spells from scrolls, they can even specialize in a school of magic, but instead of being able to have theoretically unlimited known spells via spellbooks they can only know 1 spell per spell slot per spell level and once learned it can never be changed.
The mage is more versatile in the long run because they can change which spells they know to fit the situation, where as the sorcerer is more versatile in the short-term since they don't have to plan ahead for the day as long as they know a few useful spells for a broad range of situations.
Then we have to make it to the 3rd level of dragons eye for my first 4th level spell - confusion. After that I can stop caring as we can duck in HoW to pick up some scrolls at our leisure.
I honestly don't even get this thread. Fireball and haste are early. Confusion is a good (enough) spell and that's quick. 5th and above are all available in HoW. What is the issue exactly?
I mean, come on. The mage in Bondari's party killed a dragon with only a magic missile. Surely you can do better. Remember, if nothing else works, even Bondari reloaded.
The other problem is that the game was not designed with the double xp of insane in mind. Its one of the things like so many in IE games thrown in without much thought.
you need to decide if your character's quest for ultimate power is worth the hassle throughout most of the game or not...
I usually play a dragon disciple both rp-wise and combat-wise (extra toughness/ability to tank if properly buffed), leaving all found/bought scrolls to a grinning bard
The "Orrick" bug can sometimes cause a problem in the EE though.
That Orrick bug is very annoying though. In my current run, I reached Dorn's Deep (chapter 4) and the items that should show up did, but the items that should show up on Chapter 2 are not there (and those are the nicest items you can buy from him, Wand of Freezing Death, Rogue Cowl and Ring of Shocking Grasp).
And a ring that allows the caster to use it 4 times/day, well, that was amazing to have (in battle plenty of times spellcasters are finding themselves with enemies close by.
I'd have assumed that IWDee follows the BG charts but I could be wrong? It would certainly marginalise sorcerers if that was the case unless they had a new spell progression designed for them just for IWDee?
Its pretty strange. Mage gets level 2,3,4,5 before Sorc. But 6,7,8,9 they are at the same time. Then early Sord gets more spells per day he just knows less spells.
But the gear and scrolls in shop should be based upon level and not Chapter if a shops items is set to change. But if this wasn't something that could be changed in EE. Then its no big deal. But it is peculiar.
As there is that chapter bug.