Not a bug but near gamebreaking for wizards:
ArminW
Member Posts: 8
Have Orrick sell spell scrolls of level 3 and above!
All other classes can acquire the tools for their trade, so why are wizards prevented from actually using their alloted spell slots at level 5 and beyond? That's just silly and in dire need of fixing.
All other classes can acquire the tools for their trade, so why are wizards prevented from actually using their alloted spell slots at level 5 and beyond? That's just silly and in dire need of fixing.
Post edited by Cerevant on
5
Comments
It still makes no sense whatsoever. A warrior is not denied a weapon, a cleric, bard, druid and sorcerer all get their spells, just a wizard levels up for no reason and is unable to function like all the other classes do, just for the heck of it? What was the point of leveling again?
In a pen&paper campaign I wouldn't let the DM get away with willfully crippling a character by denying the very basic tools of the trade.
Bad desing, bad balance, bad player motivation, easily remedied.
he does NOT, however, let you buy level 3 spells at Character level 5 or level 4 spells at level 7, when you NEED them. So the Wizard class is the only one that is forced to run around, for quite a while, with newly gained levels that give them abilities they cannot actually USE.
Is there anything more pointless and frustrating than having earned a new level and being denied the benefits???
if you are a level 9 wizard and orrick only sells scrolls up to level 3 than you are not at a point in the game where you "NEED" level 5 spells.
When I play the game in a completely straightforward, standard fashion, go along with the story and do the quests I have where I'm supposed to be at the time, my party will, at some point be level 5, and *everyone* in it will be able to do the job of a level 5 character except a wizard. (and, again, later at level 7 or 9).
My cavalier has a +1 bastard sword, a +1 mace, some armor, a magic large shield and all his abilities are available *as they are supposed to*.
The barbarian has Kresselacks 2-h Sword, Armor, everything else needed and *all abilities work*.
The cleric has armor, a +1 shield, +1 warhammer and all spells she's supposed to have (lvl 1-3) can actually be cast.
The archer works...
The swashbuckler has 2 magic weapons, +1 armor, and *all abilities work*.
The mage is effectively a level 4 mage with a few extra hp, because her blasted main ability doesn't work correctly, as, while she should be able to cast two 3rd level spells per rest period, none are available...
Is there any reason why mages are hindered like this and put at a disadvantage? With a sorcerer the party has access to arcane spell levels when they are supposed to.
It's an oversight, a plain design flaw, bad balance, unfair and easily corrected. Why does everyone insist to ignore that?
every class is it's own thing and comparisons such as the ones that you make are unwarranted.
a sorcerer is a sorcerer a mage is a mage and a cavalier is a cavalier.
in terms of game balance, as i have said and you have neglected, you will find all spells in time. a mage is perfectly playable.
until then, you will have to be patient and survive, that's what the game is about after all - among other things it's about survival.
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however, you are on to something - sorcerers are simply better than mages in iwd. much better.
this is a fact but it isn't a problem - "not everything which we don't like is a problem" is another ancient nugget of wisdom. some things simply are the way they are.
I found Orricks supply of spells very limiting. I went for a sorcerer for this very reason.
To add spells from scratch up to a certain level would indeed help, and since you can't use them before you reach the proper level, it's not a game breaker to have them available.
(And I highly doubt someone will waste scrolls on a single cast, considering the limited availability)
One solution may be playing a sorcerer and you can end up casting lvl5 spells when you reach Kuldahar in HoF.
Or a mod that checks your mage lvls and replace scrolls sold by the vendors appropriately might be nice to have, as well.
Of course, this can now be bypassed with a sorcerer, which is why I maintain that the addition of that class is the single biggest balance change in the EE.
Most of my parties in the past would have a mage and a bard, and both of them would always have empty high level spell slots through most of the game. I agree that it's a basic design oversight in the original implementation of the game. I don't think the original devs intended for mages and bards to have no access to the appropriate spell scrolls at character levels 3, 5, and 9. Rather, I think they didn't do all the math on the experience rate for a six person party playing the game normally at core rules and adjust the availability of scrolls accordingly. If they did it on purpose, then I think it was a bad decision.
This is why in all my parties I've started so far in EE, I've used a sorcerer for my arcane caster, because I was very aware that any mage would be starving for spell scrolls.
Comparing wizards to sorcerers: Wizards are always starving for knowledge and seeking out new ways to perform magic as they should. They invest every bit of their life to understand magic. Compared to this, sorcerers just run around, grow and do amazing stuff. They are not devoting their life to magic, they just use it.
Lorewise: Getting spells in Kuldahar means buying them from the local mage who has no real interest in his surroundings, let alone some wanderers that come pester him at his home. Once he notices you gaining in power he starts to take an interest and slowly starts providing you with more materials to test your mettle.
Having said this, I do agree it is a bit silly that singleclass mages lag behind when it comes to what they can do, but they do make up for it at a later stage. And you can circumvent this by taking a bard or a multiclass mage who are usually right around the right level for the spells this game offers you. Or as others suggested, you can simply go for a sorcerer.
Like a shop dialog that only appears when the game is in easy mode? So it is there for the people want it, but out of sight of those who Mau frown upon their inclusion.
I think this is ultimately a setting issue more than anything. Although the effect it has on an entitlement philosophy is interesting.
And hey, what's the deal with the scarcity of Holy Swords in this game?! I think all my Paladins should have one by third level...
I do think it is balanced out a bit by how amazing the high-level spells will be in Heart of Winter. Wai lof the Banshee and Meteor Swarm will probably be quite impressive in Heart of Winter's biggest fights. Still, I would like to make wizards a bit better earlier on. Empty spell slots is frustrating.
I feel like the game really pushed people toward multi-classing and dual-classing.
But I think the scarcity of magic drives home the bleak atmosphere of need. I could see carrying it even further with weapons and other items. It's just such a different economy than BG, experience is available in abundance, but wealth and magic less so. It feels like adventuring at the edge of the world.