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I don't like the loot bar

13

Comments

  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968

    Which involves the very feature you're asking for, walking to where the loot is and picking it up

    Plus constantly pressing Tab in order to see the loot in the first place, and quite often having to move some party member out of the way in order to get at it. I don't deny that quick loot is a handy feature, I just don't care for the way it's currently being implemented. It's cheesy IMO. I would just like the option to have it work the way it does in the BG games. Is that so much to ask? I really don't understand why you're making such a big issue out of it. As I've mentioned several times now, I have a right to my opinion. Yet you seem to believe I should see things exactly as you do.

  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited November 2014
    Plus constantly pressing Tab in order to see the loot in the first place,
    Wrong

    There's an option to set highlighting on permanently.
    and quite often having to move some party member out of the way in order to get at it.
    And this doesn't change if quick loot requires players to walk to the loot
    It's cheesy IMO.
    It isn't. Cheese is something that breaks the game's difficulty. Unless the party is absolute crap, ensuring the immediate area is free of monsters before looting is a non issue.

    A feature that only prevents people from committing mistakes a beginner would make is not cheese. There is no difficulty to break here only a novice's player blunder where the process of getting around of involves pointless tedium

    Skilled players will ensure the area is safe, and they will loot the items after that's done.

    When they loot the items is largely irrelevant.

    If the minimum requirement for a feature to be called cheesy is that not doing so means a party that is absolutely crap or played like crap will end up meeting a horrible fate then nearly everything in the game is cheesy.
    I would just like the option to have it work the way it does in the BG games.
    Walking to pick up loot? That's been in the game since the first release
    Yet you seem to believe I should see things exactly as you do.
    That there are things the players should do themselves without the developers jumping in? Especially when the feature they want is practically already in the game itself? Sure.

    The players have the option of limiting reloads and saves themselves, the devs don't need to waste the time and put in options to automatically do it for them.

    Oh and seeing as you somehow raised concerns about quick loot being "cheesy"

    The ability to pick up gold without walking to it is just as "cheesy". Lots of monsters in this game drop items which will end up vendor trash. Majority of the time, gold is a much more preferable loot because it doesn't weigh anything, doesn't take up inventory space, and doesn't require the player to have to manually sell each item.

    So if the reason for enabling BG Quickloot is because IWD Quickloot is cheesy, then BG Quickloot itself is "cheesy" because quick looting gold is "cheesy"

    So if you're concerned with "cheese", turn off quickloot in this game and BG.

    GodKaiserHell
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    edited November 2014


    There's an option to set highlighting on permanently.

    And where would this be exactly? I've looked through all the game option and the ini file and I don't see it anywhere.


    And this doesn't change if quick loot requires players to walk to the loot

    Yes it does. The character will automatically move out of the way, I don't have to do it manually.


    Cheese is something that breaks the game's difficulty.

    If I didn't think it made the game easier, I wouldn't be bringing up the issue. Having some creature come out of the fog of war because I'm trying to pick something up most definitely makes things more difficult for me.

    There is no difficulty to break here only a novice's player blunder where the process of getting around of involves pointless tedium

    So how is having an option for those of us who might prefer it to work differently forcing you to engage in pointless tedium? It's the other way around for players like myself. I either use something I don't care for or do it the old fashioned, way which is a lot more tedious.


    Walking to pick up loot? That's been in the game since the first release

    Quick loot makes it more convenient. Why is that so hard for you to understand?


    The players have the option of limiting reloads and saves themselves, the devs don't need to waste the time and put in options to automatically do it for them.

    And how exactly is this relevant to the discussion?


    The ability to pick up gold without walking to it is just as "cheesy".

    Well yes, here I finally agree with you. I never noticed that it worked that way frankly. As far as I'm concerned, a character should have to walk over to pick up any loot, regardless.


    So if you're concerned with "cheese", turn off quickloot in this game and BG.

    Again, why should it be either/or? That's just imposing your playing style onto mine. If it works the way I like it in the BG games, why shouldn't I have the option of making it work that way in this game as well? You'd still have the option of choosing the current method if you chose to. But as it stands now, I don't really have any options at all. Either use it or don't. I really don't understand why you're making such an issue of me wanting something different than you.

  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited November 2014
    And where would this be exactly? I've looked through all the game option and the ini file and I don't see it anywhere.
    Lantern button
    Yes it does. The character will automatically move out of the way, I don't have to do it manually.
    Characters move out of the way automatically when another character tries to walk through them. Or pick it up with the character standing on the loot and give it to the person who will carry it.
    So how is having an option for those of us who might prefer it to work differently forcing you to engage in pointless tedium? It's the other way around for players like myself. I either use something I don't care for or do it the old fashioned, way which is a lot more tedious.
    Because it would mean every possible pointless complaint would need to have an option.

    People who don't like to see specific potions on the quick loot bar because it makes the game "cheesy" since you're not supposed to know what potion an enemy is carrying unless you loot them manually. Making it "easier" for players to zero in on whatever potion they need because they played a battle badly or setup their party badly.

    People who don't like to see if an enemy was carrying a magical weapon because it makes the game "cheesy" since you're not supposed to always know if an enemy was carrying something magical because they played a battle badly or setup their party badly.
    Quick loot makes it more convenient. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
    And it makes it "cheesy" by your incredibly poor definition of the word, knowing what potions are on the ground without walking to them and looking at them? That's cheesy.
    And how exactly is this relevant to the discussion?
    Don't like a feature? Don't use it.
    Again, why should it be either/or? That's just imposing your playing style onto mine.
    No you're imposing your own playstyle to deserve an option all to itself. Especially when it's self contradictory. If you think quick looting non gold items is cheesy then I'm fairly sure there will be people who can come up with more ridiculous reasons as to why even BG quicklooting is cheesy but still want some special consideration for convenience over manual looting.

    So what will the quick loot menu look like?

    >walk to items
    >walk to everything
    >See specific potions and scrolls
    >See if item is magical
    >See number of projectiles
    >See number of gold
    >See only lootable bodies/inventory piles on ground not contents
    >+ dozens of more ridiculous conditions

    All these are "playstyles" that are just as pointlessly conditional as yours.

    Should the developers adjust difficulty sliders too? What about people who think 200% Monster damage in Insane is too much but 100% to be "cheesy" Should they add 150%? What about people who think 150% is too much. but 100% is still too little 125%?

    What about people who think XP and loot from monsters that appear when you rest is cheesy but still want the threat of monsters during rest? Should the developers add an option that monsters that appear when resting give no XP or loot?

    Why should your "playstyle" deserve special attention?

  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968


    Lantern button

    You're mistaken. The Lantern button toggles the AI on and off.

    Characters move out of the way automatically when another character tries to walk through them. Or pick it up with the character standing on the loot and give it to the person who will carry it.

    Unless the character is standing directly over top of the item, they can't pick it up. And if they're just a little off to the side of it, you can't target the item. So you have to switch over to that character and move them. In other words, tedium.


    Because it would mean every possible pointless complaint would need to have an option.

    I don't see how something that would add a bit more realism to the game makes it pointless. So all these items just magically fly into your inventory? Yeah, that's really immersive.

    Don't like a feature? Don't use it.

    Nice to see you believe in options. I guess you expect all of us to be just like you.

    If you think quick looting non gold items is cheesy then I'm fairly sure there will be people who can come up with more ridiculous reasons as to why even BG quicklooting is cheesy but still want some special consideration for convenience over manual looting.

    Well obviously you didn't even bother to read what I posted, since I suggested that all loot should be picked up by walking over to it as an option. That hardly leaves the door open to minute sub-options. I guess you're just too busy trying to impose your own opinions to actually understand what it is I'm trying to suggest.

    realshemp
  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited November 2014
    Oh right the glass button is only available on mobile. Shouldn't be too hard to request that button on PC
    I don't see how something that would add a bit more realism to the game makes it pointless. So all these items just magically fly into your inventory? Yeah, that's really immersive.
    And knowing what items an enemy was carrying without going over to their body and checking is somehow just as immersive?

    Cheesy
    Nice to see you believe in options. I guess you expect all of us to be just like you.
    I believe in options that won't ridiculously clutter up menus.
    Well obviously you didn't even bother to read what I posted, since I suggested that all loot should be picked up by walking over to it as an option. That hardly leaves the door open to minute sub-options. I guess you're just too busy trying to impose your own opinions to actually understand what it is I'm trying to suggest.
    You mean my opinion that too many options clutter up menus?

    If your playstyle gets a special option to itself, that means every play style should.

    That would mean every single aspect of the game would have dozens of options attached to it because if people can think quick looting is "cheesy", nearly everything in the game is cheesy and will need an actual option in the menu to remove the "cheesiness"

  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968
    edited November 2014


    And knowing what items an enemy was carrying without going over to their body and checking is somehow just as immersive?

    Well obviously a quick loot system is going to have to make some compromises.


    I believe in options that won't ridiculously clutter up menus.

    So having an ini toggle is going to clutter up menus how? They did the same thing with the Cleric/Ranger spells. Not everything has to be in the options menu. And even it was, it would only be one button you toggle on or off. Big deal!


    That would mean every single aspect of the game would have dozens of options attached to it because if people can think quick looting is "cheesy", nearly everything in the game is cheesy and will need an actual option in the menu to remove the "cheesiness"

    If something worked a certain way in the previous games, but doesn't anymore, I don't think it's unreasonable to have an option to make that feature function like it used to. Again, that's how they worked it with the Cleric/Ranger spells. They added an ini setting so you can have that type of character function like it used to, if you so choose.


  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited November 2014
    Well obviously a quick loot system is going to have to make some compromises.
    You mean like the compromise of picking anything within the sight radius of a character instantly?

    You're whining about that compromise now and demanding an option to fix it, so why should someone who doesn't want seeing what items are on an enemy's corpse and yet somehow still have some version of quickloot not get their special option
    So having an ini toggle is going to clutter up menus how? They did the same thing with the Cleric/Ranger spells. Not everything has to be in the options menu. And even it was, it would only be one button you toggle on or off. Big deal!
    One button? Sure, if we're talking about your playstyle

    But if you're going to demand your minor quibbles regarding your playstyle gets attention, then every playstyle should get their set of options.
    If something worked a certain way in the previous games, but doesn't anymore, I don't think it's unreasonable to have an option to make that feature function like it used to. Again, that's how they worked it with the Cleric/Ranger spells. They added an ini setting so you can have that type of character function like it used to, if you so choose.
    Except the original game in question here is IWD.

    Original IWD didn't have a quickloot option as much as Ranger/Clerics had stunted Druid spell progression

    So Quick Loot on/Quick Loot off already addresses this issue as much as Ranger/Clerics having IWD mechanics as an option.

  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968


    Except the original game in question here is IWD.

    It's using the same engine that BG1EE/BG2EE uses. So no, it's not the original game as far as the EEs are concerned. If you insist on being nit-picky there's not much point in discussing anything with you. In fact, most of your arguments in this thread are nothing but you being nit-picky:

    "But if you're going to demand your minor quibbles regarding your playstyle gets attention, then every playstyle should get their set of options."


    Original IWD didn't have a quickloot option as much as Ranger/Clerics had stunted Druid spell progression

    And yet they still provided the option of having them function the same way they did in the BG games.

  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    The original game is IWD, the options are there to allow players to change certain things back to the way they worked in IWD.

    IWD didn't have a quick loot option. IWD didn't have quick Druid spell progression for C/R's

    An option to remove quick loot and restore IWD's C/R's Druid spell progression are justified.

    IWD didn't have quick loot of any form.

    An option to make a special version of quick loot does not unless the developers making dozens of special versions of quick loot.
    In fact, most of your arguments in this thread are nothing but you being nit-picky:
    Your original complaint is nitpicky. So no, you don't get to accuse people of nitpicking when this topic is about you nitpicking because you don't get a special option for your playstyle

  • wigglesgwigglesg Member Posts: 96
    On the subject of IWD quick loot vs. BG quick loot is the stacking fixed now? i.e. if I quick loot two piles of arrows will they take up one or two slots in my inventory?

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,228
    Dee said:

    I like the suggestion of disabling it during combat, but I think in that case you'd want to also disable normal looting, which I imagine a lot of people wouldn't like.

    there are two aspects of this:

    1. Flavor aspect - In combat, time is *real* and having things like stuff from ten feet away magically appearing in your inventory looks ugly to me. But out of combat this can be abstracted because apart from the clock ticking time usually doesn't do much.

    2. Tactical aspect - It doesn't follow that you have to disable normal looting too because normal looting is different from instant looting, it can waste time to walk to a corpse and especially, if quick loot is to be off during combat, you can't even see accurately what's in the pile before you walk to it. This is a significant difference. Imagine an enemy you killed from 15 feet away dropping a valuable potion. Should you really be able to have it instantly while the battle is still raging?

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 17,232
    meagloth said:

    Then don't use it.

    /Thread

    jackjackWigglesNonnahswriterbooinyoureyes
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,228
    edited November 2014
    this advice-giving to people about how to play the game is getting stale. it's repeated on a great number of threads. i really wish the mods would discourage this behavior and statements such as "don't use it" since they almost never adhere to the actual topic.

    edit: how about this - you keep using it and let other people complain about it instead drowning the discussion with repetitive inane quips.

    realshemp
  • simplessimples Member Posts: 539
    honestly, the fact that i can hide in shadows and just loot items feels like cheating a bit, but it is super convenient

  • macomeaumacomeau Member Posts: 80
    Group Infravision and variable difficulty levels feel like cheating. /s

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,228
    boths are menu settings, they're outside of the gameworld so they can't be cheating

  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited November 2014
    Quick loot has all the functionality of a menu option.

    So don't like it, don't use it

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,228
    edited November 2014
    no, it's not a menu option it's gui and that is fundamentally different from the menu in that it is a *direct* conduit between you and the game.

    having this feature in the game is not a gui thing it's a game mechanics thing that is just facilitated by gui.

    so in essence they've changed game mechanics to allow exploity little things such as helping yourself to a distantly slain enemy's healing potions.

    and since the game mechanichs are now such as they are, i will not limit myself by inventing my provisional rules to fix something i consider broken in the game.

    realshemp
  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited November 2014
    The Android version has a Quick Save button in the GUI. So with that inane logic, the developers gave Android users half of a time reversal ability. Oh and pause? That's broken too. Giving players all the time in the world to make a tactical decision in the heat of battle? As well as switching weapons on the fly? Cheat. Moving 240 arrows while paused? Cheat.

    So no this GUI not menu logic is pretty ridiculous. Quick Loot is a menu feature as much as pause or quick save or quick load.

  • macomeaumacomeau Member Posts: 80
    I'm going to regret engaging someone who took my joke seriously, but here we go:

    @bob_veng‌ That's not meaningfully different from "This battle's too hard, so I'm going to turn down the difficulty level." Or "I want my Paladin as party leader because Charisma, but also want the benefits of my Elf Archer's Infravision at all times."

    Yeah, I have to go to a menu, but the menu is still the game interface. It's still me messing with game mechanics to make my life easier. So why don't I? Because I choose not to (or do, for Infravision).

    You can pause the game in combat, create a strategy, assign actions to all the characters at your leisure, and unpause. That's not very tactically realistic or 'flavourful'. Should pausing be disabled in combat? As Zyzzogeton says, if I still screw the battle up, I can quick load to me pre-battle quick save from the main screen. Should that be disabled entirely?

    A player can put whatever arbitrary rules on their own play that they want. To refuse to do so, and then complain on here that the game is too easy for you to exploit and needs to be changed is, frankly, silly. It's even more bizarre with your arbitrary and false "GUI vs Menu" distinction. There is no moral imperative that says you must exploit every rule and loophole to your maximum advantage at all times.

    Own your choices.

    Like I have to own mine to spend 20 minutes typing this response, which I already acknowledge is a silly choice.

    enqenq
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,228
    that first example: "This battle's too hard, so I'm going to turn down the difficulty level." is simply cheating the game

    magically picking up outlying items on the ground during a battle is a game mechanic now and doing it is not cheating, but it still reeks of exploit. i admit a fairly minor exploit, but it's unnecessary when it can be removed by disabling quick loot in battles.

    the infravision example doesn't apply because infravision is purely cosmetic.

    the pause is something already present, hasn't been changed and we're not discussing it. pause is simply necessary after all.

    this is not necessary.

    thanks for taking your time to contribute to the discussion, i hope you will overcome any prejudice you have towards me even if don't agree in the end.

  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited November 2014
    magically picking up outlying items on the ground during a battle is a game mechanic now and doing it is not cheating, but it still reeks of exploit. i admit a fairly minor exploit, but it's unnecessary when it can be removed by disabling quick loot in battles.
    Unless the party is horribly built and/or played, looting items during battle or after it will rarely change the outcome of the battle.

    And if that's an exploit, magically teleporting 240 arrows from an Ammo Belt to another character who ran out of Arrows in 0 seconds reeks even more of an exploit.

    Oh the Archer standing in the back of the party ran out of Arrows? Why let the Mage in the middle of casting a spell take 240 out of the 900 or so Arrows in their backpack and magically teleport those into the Archer's quiver. All in the span of 0 seconds.

    Yeah look at all that immersion.
    the pause is something already present, hasn't been changed and we're not discussing it. pause is simply necessary after all.
    Pausing isn't necessary. It's convenient. But it's not necessary.

    A player with a fairly good grasp of the battle system and hotkeys utilizing scripts can play the game without pausing.

    And even if it did, that doesn't excuse all the crazy hijinks people can do while the game is paused like magically rearranging the inventory of 6 characters spread apart during combat.

    Oh and failed to pick pocket someone? Why reload a save and try again. One character died in a battle? Reload a save and try again. Failed to write a spell? Reload a save and try again.

    The number of ways the game's features can be exploited and people want to get rid of inbattle quick looting?

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,228


    Unless the party is horribly built and/or played, looting items during battle or after it will not change the outcome of the battle.

    this has nothing to do with how your party is built

    if you're about to die, you're about to die. if you don't have an available potion that's got nothing do with your build. if then you magically obtain a potion (without wasting precious moments walking about) to ensure that you will certifiably survive that is *at least something*

    pause is necessary for a normal player without mad skillz.

  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited November 2014
    this has nothing to do with how your party is built
    Yes it does.

    If the party is built poorly the number of times when healing potions are needed increases. And when that goes up the chances that healing potions run out during battle goes up.
    if you're about to die, you're about to die. if you don't have an available potion that's got nothing do with your build.
    Other than the less a party needs potions the less chances they won't have one during a battle
    if then you magically obtain a potion (without wasting precious moments walking about) to ensure that you will certifiably survive that is *at least something*
    And the ability to teleport hundreds of arrows in 0 seconds from one character to another no matter what either character is doing or what the situation is also *at least something*

    If exploits performed with Pause is not a reason to change how Pause works, then rare exploits performed with Quick Loot are even less reason to change how it works.
    pause is necessary for a normal player without mad skillz.
    Oh then quick loot in battle is necessary for a player with either a horrible party or playing their party badly. And not an exploit at all for players who don't fall under those conditions.

    So either necessary or not an exploit.

    Anyone who thinks the stuff players can do with Pause have the option not to do any of them which is no different from people not utilizing Quick Loot during battle because they think it's an exploit. Don't like it, don't use it.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,228
    edited November 2014


    Oh then quick loot in battle is necessary for a player with either a horrible party or playing their party badly. And not an exploit at all for players who don't fall under those conditions.

    you must be kidding me. there are so many easy ways to answer this.
    what about a competent BG:EE player playing BG2:EE for the first time? (BG2 NPCs are all quite strong and you can't have a bad party in that game)

    have in mind that i'm not talking about IWD at all. the problem doesn't exist in IWD because there enemies almost never drop things useful on-the-spot except arrows.


    Don't like it, don't use it.

    please stop repeating this xyz times in response to my pots on multiple threads it's annoying and aggressive

    realshemp
  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    edited November 2014
    what about a competent BG:EE player playing BG2:EE for the first time? (BG2 NPCs are all quite strong and you can't have a bad party in that game)
    What about a competent IE player playing any IE game thinking that since their Mage has low STR they might as well load that character up with Arrows and just teleport bunches of those arrows to their bow using character during a battle while that Mage is casting a spell?
    please stop repeating this xyz times in response to my pots on multiple threads it's annoying and aggressive
    Sure, stop complaining about minor exploits in games that are filled to the brim with exploits that most players already ignore or don't use because they don't like using them.

    Pause exploits went past quality control why should minor Quick Loot "exploits" get fixed? Don't like it? Don't use it.

  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,228

    What about a competent IE player playing any IE game thinking that since their Mage has low STR they might as well load that character up with Arrows and just teleport bunches of those arrows to their bow using character during a battle while that Mage is casting a spell?

    i admit, it's not pretty but i don't mind this, it has always been like this after all. the whole inventory is a big abstracton (except weight altho even that is quirkily implemented, but i don't mind that). have in mind that what i see to be the issue here is actually a *change*.

    please stop repeating this xyz times in response to my pots on multiple threads it's annoying and aggressive

    i will not accept being presented with conditions to your behaving politely when i politely ask you to do so.


  • ZyzzogetonZyzzogeton Member Posts: 526
    i admit, it's not pretty but i don't mind this, it has always been like this after all. the whole inventory is a big abstracton (except weight altho even that is quirkily implemented, but i don't mind that). have in mind that what i see to be the issue here is actually a *change*.
    This is not an excuse to let Pause exploits slide but put Quick Loot exploits under scrutiny
    i will not accept being presented with conditions to your behaving politely when i politely ask you to do so.
    When you stop being hypocritical sure.

    Either complain about all the exploits or don't.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,438
    @Zyzzogeton‌ there's a fine line between argument and trolling, and you're walking dangerously close to it. Maybe it's time to step out of this thread, if you can't keep your discourse civil?

    booinyoureyesjackjack
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